We Turned Down Offer To Trade Down With Rams

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

 

Austin will be tea-bagging me by week 8.

I see what you did there.

 

That's clever.

[BadNewsBrowns]

When you can trade down and still get the top guy on your board, you do that. We could have, we didn't.

 

That is a failure.

 

Can't say that for sure, suppose we had traded down and Pittsburgh or Baltimore traded up to take Mingo? Then everyone would be mad and saying Mingo is the next great thing.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

Can't say that for sure, suppose we had traded down and Pittsburgh or Baltimore traded up to take Mingo? Then everyone would be mad and saying Mingo is the next great thing.

Then we would have weakened a division rivals draft spending potential and then gotten Jones, and most of you guys are already saying that about him anyway.

[Mark O]

When you can trade down and still get the top guy on your board, you do that. We could have, we didn't.

 

That is a failure.

 

There's no guarentee that if we had traded down that he would still be there. It's likely but no way of knowing for sure. I like and respect the fact that he was the guy our front office wanted and when he's still available when we're on the clock they mad the choice. Whether it was the right choice or not remains to be seen but until this front office proves to be incompetant, I'm going to trust that they know more about the players than I do.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

Jets (3-4, 2 picks) need a pass rusher, worked out Mingo.

 

Saints need a pass rusher (3-4, pick 15)

 

Either of those teams would have taken Mingo before 16.

Jets (3-4, 2 picks, #1 starting CB- Cromartie, Kyle Wilson) wouldn't pass up Milliner after trading Revis. Especially when their recent experiences with undersized pass rushers haven't turned out favorably.

 

Saints (3-4, pick 15) were equally high on both Jones and Mingo. Could have gone either way, but the point is that one of the two would have been available.

[cambridgeho]

Wilson was drafted 1st round and Antonio is a great qb, something has to give there. My bet is they are expecting Antonio to leave, so they drafted Millner. However Millner is no where near the DB we missed last year in Claiborne.Millner way be really good, but Revis and Haden good, we will see.

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/kyle-wilson?id=79527

 

Wilson looks like the DB Mcfadden we drafted, and Wilson was a 1st rounder.

[Zombo]

When you can trade down and still get the top guy on your board, you do that. We could have, we didn't.

 

That is a failure.

Speculation.

 

They said if he's there, were taking him. No guarantee he was there later. Now we sit back and see if he was worth it.

 

Z

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

The Jets had two picks and picked a DL because they didn't like Jones. Mingo would have more than likely been the pick at 13 if he was still there.

It's not because they lost both Devito and Pouha and have a depleted defensive line. Not is it because Sheldon Richardson can play in any of the defensive fronts that Ryan uses.

 

It's because they didn't like Jarvis Jones. That's the reason. The Jets have a bad history with pass rushing tweeners and roster of pass rushing specialists taken in the last couple years, I doubt they were going to add another.

[BendMeOver]

The Jets were going to select Barkevious Mingo w/the 13th pick. If you would've traded down you'd probably have Jarvis Jones.

[hoorta]

The Jets were going to select Barkevious Mingo w/the 13th pick. If you would've traded down you'd probably have Jarvis Jones.

 

 

So as a Steeler fan, what's the take over there on getting Jarvis Jones? BTW, I'm shocked we actually traded with you guys.

[BendMeOver]

 

 

So as a Steeler fan, what's the take over there on getting Jarvis Jones? BTW, I'm shocked we actually traded with you guys.

 

Most of the fanbase really likes Jarvis Jones, as he fills a supposedly huge need. I'm not so crazy about him, but I hope he works out. A slow guy with back problems sounds like a guy we just cut. Linebackers typically don't start in their first year of LeBeau's system and taking a linebacker first overall to sit a year is silly. I really like Arthur Brown and they could've had him in the second round, instead. Pittsburgh needs offensive talent, Eifert, Patterson or Hunter would've been a better first round pickup and we could've got another pick trading back. I'm not shocked you traded with us. We gave up a third round pick on the expectation we would get a 3rd rounder for Mike Wallace next year. If 2013 is a down year as I kinda fear, you'll have a high third round pick for a 4th rounder this year...there's no way your franchise could've turned down an offer like that. I don't know if we really got value out of that trade pick as I don't know much about the safety they picked up. Our safety is kinda short and we've been burned by safety's labeled as "hard hitters" previously under Corbert. If he works out and eventually starts then the trade would've been worth it.

[Assmunch]

It's not because they lost both Devito and Pouha and have a depleted defensive line. Not is it because Sheldon Richardson can play in any of the defensive fronts that Ryan uses.

 

It's because they didn't like Jarvis Jones. That's the reason. The Jets have a bad history with pass rushing tweeners and roster of pass rushing specialists taken in the last couple years, I doubt they were going to add another.

I saw enough of Jarvis Jones in college to believe he is going to be a semi-flop in the NFL. When you look at Jones you ask, "Where's the beef?" Kinda like Barky Mingo.

[Assmunch]

 

Most of the fanbase really likes Jarvis Jones, as he fills a supposedly huge need. I'm not so crazy about him, but I hope he works out. A slow guy with back problems sounds like a guy we just cut. Linebackers typically don't start in their first year of LeBeau's system and taking a linebacker first overall to sit a year is silly. I really like Arthur Brown and they could've had him in the second round, instead. Pittsburgh needs offensive talent, Eifert, Patterson or Hunter would've been a better first round pickup and we could've got another pick trading back. I'm not shocked you traded with us. We gave up a third round pick on the expectation we would get a 3rd rounder for Mike Wallace next year. If 2013 is a down year as I kinda fear, you'll have a high third round pick for a 4th rounder this year...there's no way your franchise could've turned down an offer like that. I don't know if we really got value out of that trade pick as I don't know much about the safety they picked up. Our safety is kinda short and we've been burned by safety's labeled as "hard hitters" previously under Corbert. If he works out and eventually starts then the trade would've been worth it.

If you watch Jones on the field he is anything but slow. Ignore that 40 time at the combine. What's bad about Jones is that he was AWOL in a number of Georgia games and he's not going to be able to block effectively due to his build.

[BadNewsBrowns]

With a little wheeling and dealing we could have had a first five rounds that looked like this

 

Guarantee you we would be a better team with this draft class than the one Lombanner did.

 

I'll dig this up in a year when these guys all have great rookie seasons.

 

 

1.Jarvis Jones

2.Travis Kelce

3.Tyrann Mathieu

4. Barrett Jones

5. Sanders Commings

[Zombo]

With a little wheeling and dealing we could have had a first five rounds that looked like this

 

Guarantee you we would be a better team with this draft class than the one Lombanner did.

 

I'll dig this up in a year when these guys all have great rookie seasons.

 

 

1.Jarvis Jones

2.Travis Kelce

3.Tyrann Mathieu

4. Barrett Jones

5. Sanders Commings

 

We didn't have to wheel & deal to get Tyrann Mathieu ... we just needed to be stupid.

 

Zombo

[The Gipper]

With a little wheeling and dealing we could have had a first five rounds that looked like this

 

Guarantee you we would be a better team with this draft class than the one Lombanner did.

 

I'll dig this up in a year when these guys all have great rookie seasons.

 

 

1.Jarvis Jones

2.Travis Kelce

3.Tyrann Mathieu

4. Barrett Jones

5. Sanders Commings

I was on board with taking Barret Jones when it was the Browns turn....but, they traded the pick. Again, why these trades? So that Lombardi could have his own hand picked staff work on these and not the guys he inherited?

(If that is the case, that simply tells me that he himself is NOT up to par on the talent that was out there available in this draft....that he didn't trust his current scouting staff with any picks other than 6th/7th rounders and that he did NO work beyond the first round or three to acquaint himself with the available talent.

Then WTF has he been doing since he was hired....and the years before that when his media job was to evaluate talent? Sipping Maitais on a beach? Likely.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I was on board with taking Barret Jones when it was the Browns turn....but, they traded the pick. Again, why these trades? So that Lombardi could have his own hand picked staff work on these and not the guys he inherited?

(If that is the case, that simply tells me that he himself is NOT up to par on the talent that was out there available in this draft....that he didn't trust his current scouting staff with any picks other than 6th/7th rounders and that he did NO work beyond the first round or three to acquaint himself with the available talent.

Then WTF has he been doing since he was hired....and the years before that when his media job was to evaluate talent? Sipping Maitais on a beach? Likely.

Exactly right.

 

Lombardi delegates his job to his scouting team and does nothing himself. He's a talking head and nothing more.

 

While I hate the trades, I am kind of happy they decided to put their faith in next years scouts rather than in Lombardi's scouting.

[Assmunch]

With a little wheeling and dealing we could have had a first five rounds that looked like this

 

Guarantee you we would be a better team with this draft class than the one Lombanner did.

 

I'll dig this up in a year when these guys all have great rookie seasons.

 

 

1.Jarvis Jones

2.Travis Kelce

3.Tyrann Mathieu

4. Barrett Jones

5. Sanders Commings

Kelce and maybe Commings the only two I'm OK with. J. Jones and Mathieu will be underwhelming on defense (Tyrann may be a good punt returner) and B. Jones will be mediocre. Kelce is a guy the Browns should have gone after -- he's going to be a good one.

[The Gipper]

On the radio this morning Lombardi was doing an interview in which he stated "I felt that we could get better value out of our 4th and th round draft pick assets by trading them for higher round picks next year than by selecting anyone that was available there this year". He said that is the "long term view" that he is taking. He also said that he didn't think anyone available at those points were "the right fit" for the Browns such that they want to utilize those assets on current picks.

 

Well.....maybe. Maybe you can get something better a year from now than what you can get now. Maybe the "right fit" was not there. Maybe you are taking the long term view. Maybe you are just bullshitting us and yourselve with those arguments...which sound disingenuous.

[VaporTrail]

Kiley and Booms are fucking idiots. Here's how some of that conversation went

Booms-Why in the fourth round did you not take one of the players you had in for a visit?
Lombardi-Just because we have them in for a visit doesn't mean we deem the value of that player at a pick. 
Booms-Well why do you have them in come in for a meeting then? 
Lombardi- To see if they are a pick, look we are not a college here trying to recruit guys to our team.

I'm not a Lombardi fan in the slightest, but he sure handled himself well in front of these two clowns.

[gftChris]

On the radio this morning Lombardi was doing an interview in which he stated "I felt that we could get better value out of our 4th and th round draft pick assets by trading them for higher round picks next year than by selecting anyone that was available there this year". He said that is the "long term view" that he is taking. He also said that he didn't think anyone available at those points were "the right fit" for the Browns such that they want to utilize those assets on current picks.

 

Well.....maybe. Maybe you can get something better a year from now than what you can get now. Maybe the "right fit" was not there. Maybe you are taking the long term view. Maybe you are just bullshitting us and yourselve with those arguments...which sound disingenuous.

The optimist in me says if you can get a higher round pick for a lower round pick, then obviously do it. Trading the 14th pick in the 4th round (after bess trade) for the steelers' 3rd rounder next year, which will most likely be middling again, plus then a 5th rounder for the colts' 4th rounder next year, we're basically turning a 5th rounder in to a 3rd rounder.

 

The cynic in me is saying that Banner/Lombardi are basically going to say 'don't judge us until after next season when we have 10+ of our guys in the team' - basically taking advantage of the eternal optimism and loyalty of browns fans everywhere in order to get a free year.

 

It's basically impossible to judge them on talent evaluation this year; unless Mingo is a complete bust, everything will more or less work out as expected. McFadden will be solid if unspectacular and maybe one or two of the 6/7 round guys will contribute. If McFadden plays at pro bowl level, or the late picks actually contribute, like Billy Winn, we can have cause for optimism. Until then, it's just too early to comment.

[Zombo]

I like the fact that when we beat down the Steelers twice next year, our third rounder gets better and better.

 

Zombo

[gftChris]

I like the fact that when we beat down the Steelers twice next year, our third rounder gets better and better.

 

Zombo

As if any more incentive was needed

[Assmunch]

Who takes a DE/OLB type that didn't have great stats as a college player? The answer of course is the Cleveland Browns. Now I hope Mingo works out but who knows? I would have rather they took Milliner the best cornerback in the draft. So settle down OK? We could have traded down too.

Milliner is going to be a good NFL player. We are unsure about Mingo Wingo. But are stats always a key factor? Maybe not. Tehre are several top quality NFL DEs who didn't put up big stats in college and the reverse is true, too. Jarvis Jones led the nation in sacks last year, but I predict he won't turn out to be a first round quality player in the NFL.

[Assmunch]

The optimist in me says if you can get a higher round pick for a lower round pick, then obviously do it. Trading the 14th pick in the 4th round (after bess trade) for the steelers' 3rd rounder next year, which will most likely be middling again, plus then a 5th rounder for the colts' 4th rounder next year, we're basically turning a 5th rounder in to a 3rd rounder.

 

The cynic in me is saying that Banner/Lombardi are basically going to say 'don't judge us until after next season when we have 10+ of our guys in the team' - basically taking advantage of the eternal optimism and loyalty of browns fans everywhere in order to get a free year.

 

It's basically impossible to judge them on talent evaluation this year; unless Mingo is a complete bust, everything will more or less work out as expected. McFadden will be solid if unspectacular and maybe one or two of the 6/7 round guys will contribute. If McFadden plays at pro bowl level, or the late picks actually contribute, like Billy Winn, we can have cause for optimism. Until then, it's just too early to comment.

It's interesting that Lombardi's "long term view" and belief this draft wasn't so hot is an opinion not shared by most of the good teams inthe league, such as the Steelers, Ravens, Begnals and 49ers. I guess Lombardi thinks he is smarter than all the GMs of those top franchises. Not! All that happened to the Browns this off season is that their talent level fell even further behind the top teams in the league. It's quite sad.

[gftChris]

It's interesting that Lombardi's "long term view" and belief this draft wasn't so hot is an opinion not shared by most of the good teams inthe league, such as the Steelers, Ravens, Begnals and 49ers. I guess Lombardi thinks he is smarter than all the GMs of those top franchises. Not! All that happened to the Browns this off season is that their talent level fell even further behind the top teams in the league. It's quite sad.

Yep, that's the interesting thing, and how we will ultimately judge this draft. If we end up with pro bowlers from the third/fourth rounds here that we passed on then yes we can criticise Lombardi. But on the other hand if we get pro bowlers out of next year's picks, or even bundle them up to move up for a Teddy Twatwater or someone then yes, we can say he did well.

[Harry Buffalo]

It's interesting that Lombardi's "long term view" and belief this draft wasn't so hot is an opinion not shared by most of the good teams inthe league, such as the Steelers, Ravens, Begnals and 49ers. I guess Lombardi thinks he is smarter than all the GMs of those top franchises. Not! All that happened to the Browns this off season is that their talent level fell even further behind the top teams in the league. It's quite sad.

I think this year was a record low for trading for future draft picks, not because teams didn't want to give up their picks this year for pick next year, but because teams we not willing to give next years picks in order to pick again this year. This year was a historically TERRBLE draft class. Light on the first round, deep in the 2nd and 3rd, and then dropped way off in the 4th-7th. Why pick the guys we did in the 6th and 7th then? Well for one we were lucky to trade for the picks that we did get. Secondly we grabbed a guy with 2nd/3rd round value (the actual good talent value section of this years draft) who fell because of injury, then we pick two boom or bust Div II prospects. So we actually managed to make good value on our last three picks.

 

This whole Lombardi sceeming to make himself look better shit is old. He's good, he's not good. Fuck it. Won't know until we see what the guys can do on the field. I would be listening to the same shit if he (and by he I mean him and fucking Banner cause no one seems to remember he holds equal share in making decisions) had traded down in the 1st and didn't trade our 4th and 5th round picks. Everyone would be bitching about how he let their personal favorite 1st round slip away, and how he picks who they didn't want in the 2nd, 4th, and 5th.

[slimdawg]

A brief recap of this argument, as its being played out in multiple threads:

 

Tim Couch Pulls Out: This draft sucked, we could have done better. Mingo is Vernon Gholston 2.0 and our best pick was a 3rd round CB who we could have gotten in the 4th or maybe even 5th. We could have traded back, still got Mingo, added a second round pick, and added a FS or G that would instantly start for us. Way to fuck up, Lombardi.

 

Everyone else: YOU ARE WRONG AND SO ARE THE ANALYSTS. YOU'LL SEE, YOU'LL ALL SEE. MINGO PLAYED IN THE SEC, DUH. PEOPLE JUST HATE THE BROWNS BECAUSE THEY AREN'T THE STEELERS IT'S NOT FAIR

 

Miktoxic: While this draft wasn't all bad, it could have been better. I think some of our draft picks have upside, but we'll see.

 

Everyone else: FUCK YOU, WHO DID YOU WANT GENO SMITH?! YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT DICK! SEC FOOTBALL RULZ AND MINGO HAS THE WORD BARK IN HIS NAME I ALREADY ORDERED HIS JERSEY

 

BSipeBomber: Here is an article that explains how the Browns fumbled a trade back scenario that could have improved their draft.

 

Everybody else: THE BROWNS ARE GENIUSES FUCK YOU WE HAD THE BEST DRAFT OF HISTORY

 

PoeticG: Trent Richardson

 

Gipper: I'm sorry but you are wrong and here is why- I don't agree with you.

 

PoeticG: Honey Badger

 

Everybody else: FUCK TYRANN MATHIEU PUR 7th ROUND PICK WILL BE AN ALL PRO

 

That was some good shit right there TCPO LMAO!!........

 

The thing that put it over the top was PoG Trent Richardson

[PoeticG]

Ha Ha Ha!!! Good stuff.

[slimdawg]

If you watch Jones on the field he is anything but slow. Ignore that 40 time at the combine. What's bad about Jones is that he was AWOL in a number of Georgia games and he's not going to be able to block effectively due to his build.

Its probably a good thing that a DE/OLB doesn't ever have to block lol