ballpeen Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 We all know the possible, or even probable players we will try to trade, and we have talked about what they might or might not bring. The thing I want to see is if you think any of these trades will be done pre-draft, or do you think they will be of the draft day variety? My hope is we can pull a pre-draft trade.....or two...I think that allows you to settle in to the draft without a sense of urgency. Not having a 3rd rounder going in as an example could impact the direction we take in rounds 1 or 2, which I hope doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 My best guess would be if we could trade Our 2nd round pick for a lower 2nd rnd and a 3rd...maybe throw in a player...bbut that to me might be giving up too much...and the question becomes...can we survive without a 3rd rounder...tough call... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 to me there are only three guys you can trade pre-draft....DA, which is the best bet because if we do not... we automatically pay him 5 mil. The only way we get around the 5 mil cap hit is to trade him, i think by March 1st. winslow, but I don't know the value you'd get in return verses keeping him...so I don't think we'll trade him....would be a draft day trade if any....and JL....I don't think anyone wants him at all....I know I don't....tippytoes drives me insane! As a side note, if we get a ILB like eric barton(solid), we have value in trading Dqwell to a 4-3 team where he belongs but he's our best lb so I doubt that highly...but he is our best value.... him and Corey williams....someone might give us back a second rounder even though he played hurt most of the season. He was franchised and all. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 to me there are only three guys you can trade pre-draft....DA, which is the best bet because if we do not... we automatically pay him 5 mil. The only way we get around the 5 mil cap hit is to trade him, i think by March 1st. winslow, but I don't know the value you'd get in return verses keeping him...so I don't think we'll trade him....would be a draft day trade if any....and JL....I don't think anyone wants him at all....I know I don't....tippytoes drives me insane! As a side note, if we get a ILB like eric barton(solid), we have value in trading Dqwell to a 4-3 team where he belongs but he's our best lb so I doubt that highly...but he is our best value.... him and Corey williams....someone might give us back a second rounder even though he played hurt most of the season. He was franchised and all. JMO You must be smokin some good shit because trading Our best LBer is STOOPID! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 We all know the possible, or even probable players we will try to trade, and we have talked about what they might or might not bring. The thing I want to see is if you think any of these trades will be done pre-draft, or do you think they will be of the draft day variety? My hope is we can pull a pre-draft trade.....or two...I think that allows you to settle in to the draft without a sense of urgency. Not having a 3rd rounder going in as an example could impact the direction we take in rounds 1 or 2, which I hope doesn't happen. Do not really care.....what we need is management that is funcitional after ten years of dysfuncional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roach Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 You must be smokin some good shit because trading Our best LBer is STOOPID! Actually, he is correct. The fact that he's our best LB (arguably) is a friggin shame. He's Wali all over again. i vote that the Browns retire #58 so that we don't have to go thru this pain ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Do not really care.....what we need is management that is funcitional after ten years of dysfuncional Thanks for the input Rich. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 You must be smokin some good shit because trading Our best LBer is STOOPID! we have value in trading Dqwell to a 4-3 team where he belongs but he's our best lb so I doubt that highly...but he is our best value. Do you comprehend now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geech Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Actually, he is correct. The fact that he's our best LB (arguably) is a friggin shame. He's Wali all over again. i vote that the Browns retire #58 so that we don't have to go thru this pain ever again. Maybe that is why DQ switched to #52 before the 2008 season. #54...now there's your Wali Ranier Part II. -Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Actually, he is correct. The fact that he's our best LB (arguably) is a friggin shame. He's Wali all over again. i vote that the Browns retire #58 so that we don't have to go thru this pain ever again. Im saying You dont trade a guy like jackson who hasnt hit his prime yet and is only getting better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 As a side note, if we get a ILB like eric barton(solid), we have value in trading Dqwell to a 4-3 team where he belongs but he's our best lb so I doubt that highly...but he is our best value.... him and Corey williams....someone might give us back a second rounder even though he played hurt most of the season. He was franchised and all. JMO I watched a lot of Eric Barton today, and I'd describe him more as "adequate" than "solid"; he's not very good at taking on blocks and isn't consistently good in coverage. And his worst game of the year (against Buffalo) was pretty bad. If anyone wants to see what James Laurinaitis would look like in a 3-4 defense, I'd suggest they check out how E. Barton looked in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 When Jones leaves town via FA everyone will be screaming Jenkins or Mays and that wouldnt be a bad ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Im saying You dont trade a guy like jackson who hasnt hit his prime yet and is only getting better... Exactly what I meant by VALUE. Don't think he is a good fit in 3-4. But he is our best LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I watched a lot of Eric Barton today, and I'd describe him more as "adequate" than "solid"; he's not very good at taking on blocks and isn't consistently good in coverage. And his worst game of the year (against Buffalo) was pretty bad. If anyone wants to see what James Laurinaitis would look like in a 3-4 defense, I'd suggest they check out how E. Barton looked in that game. He's better than what we have, knows mangini's D, and can be gotten on the cheap. The whole package is what I meant by solid, and was responding to the thread....which has become increasingly harder lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Barton's better than Andra Davis, but he probably isn't as good as DQ. And if we brought him in, he wouldn't eliminate the possibility of us taking Aaron Curry. He'd be perfect as the 3rd guy in our ILB rotation. But I wouldn't be happy if we brought him in & thought our ILB issues were solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Barton's better than Andra Davis, but he probably isn't as good as DQ. And if we brought him in, he wouldn't eliminate the possibility of us taking Aaron Curry. He'd be perfect as the 3rd guy in our ILB rotation. But I wouldn't be happy if we brought him in & thought our ILB issues were solved. Do you really think that I would think our ILB position solved if we brought in Barton? I mean do you really? I threw it our there as a good choice as both depth and get the hell rid of AD, Leon W and Orr...hell Kris griffen and chaun thompson were better Ilb's ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Qwimbley Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 When Jones leaves town via FA everyone will be screaming Jenkins or Mays and that wouldnt be a bad ideal. Mays is staying at school bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I mean to the point of, "Let's draft a guy to develop on Day Two & eventually replace Barton." I wouldn't even be comfortable with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I don't believe that any players will be moved before the draft. Nobody would be willing to pay DA a $5 mil bonus + his 2009 salary and give up a draft pick to us. The one very marketable player we have is Cory Williams. He was a very solid 4-3 one gap DT who could get pressure on the QB and push the pocket from the inside. Personally, I think Anderson will remain with the team in 2009 as a backup because of that salary and additional cap hit from his ititial signing bonus that was split over the life of his contract. So, if we trade him after March 1st, then we get stuck with the $5 mil + the two years deferred cap money from his original contract. He would be a $7.5 mil cap hit if we trade him after March and then we would have to go out and sign a backup QB for more money. I don't know if he will bring a 2nd rounder. He may bring a 3rd rounder and I would take it because he has a pretty high cap number and is a waste in the 3-4. He is not a read and react defensive lineman. Jackson paired with the right guy next to him has a bigger upside then you can get in a trade. Winslow is damaged goods. Shaffer is a slug. There isn't a position with depth where a trade wouldn't hurt more then the whole it would leave. The bottom line is draft choices are worth more then trades for most teams. so, I say there are two tradable players. Williams and Anderson. Anderson may just be too costly to replace, no matter what you think of him. Teams don't want the rest of our scrap when they can go out and get free agents and keep their draft picks. Best bet to get additional picks is to trade down. Best partners would be SF if Sanchez is still there when we pick because they may be worried that TB or Minn would trade up ahead of them. The only other player who teams might trade up to get is crabtree if he falls past Seattle. So, no trades until the top FAs are picked. Then, you may have a team that lost out on a DT who might want Williams or the team that Chud goes to might look at Anderson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I don't believe that any players will be moved before the draft or within a few days of it. Nobody would be willing to pay DA a $5 mil bonus + his 2009 salary and give up a draft pick to us. The one very marketable player we have is Cory Williams. He was a very solid 4-3 one gap DT who could get pressure on the QB and push the pocket from the inside. Personally, I think Anderson will remain with the team in 2009 as a backup because of that salary and additional cap hit from his ititial signing bonus that was split over the life of his contract (for cap purposes). So, if we trade him after March 1st, we get stuck with the $5 mil + the two years deferred cap money from his initial contract bonus. He would be a $7.5 mil cap hit if we trade him after March and then we would have to go out and sign a backup QB for more money. I don't know if Williams would bring a 2nd rounder. He may bring a 3rd rounder and I would take it because he has a pretty high cap number and is a waste in the 3-4. He is not a read and react defensive lineman. Jackson paired with the right guy next to him has a bigger upside then you can get back in a trade in the form of a pick. Winslow is damaged goods. Shaffer is a slug. There isn't a position with depth where a trade wouldn't hurt more then the hole it would leave at the position. The bottom line is draft choices are worth more then trades for most teams. So, I say there are two tradable players. Williams and Anderson. Anderson may just be too costly to replace, no matter what you think of him. Teams don't want the rest of our scrap when they can go out and get free agents and keep their draft picks. Best bet to get additional picks is to trade down. Best partners would be SF if Sanchez is still there when we pick because they may be worried that TB or Minn would trade up ahead of them. The only other player who teams might trade up to get is crabtree if he falls past Seattle. So, no trades until the top FAs are picked. Then, you may have a team that lost out on a DT who might want Williams or the team that Chud goes to might look at Anderson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I agree YTBB, the history of pre-draft trades isn't very strong. Trade Anderson or not....we are going to pay the 5 mil. I agree that nobody is going to take him on before March 1, and agree it is more than 50% we will just keep him this year. If we trade him, then we have to go find another qb . Add in the change in management, they may want to see DA and make their own decisions. I mentioned this some time back, but no matter what any of us think of Brady, there were very differing opinions of him when he entered the draft....Mangini may have liked the kid alot, or he may have been in the camp that would have passed on his services....we just don't know. Time will tell where all of that stands. Williams is an interesting thought..I agree...he is more a 4-3 guy better suited to shoot some gaps...his talents are wasted in our scheme which probably isn't changing much.....but a 3rd rounder isn't out of the question. My thinking is Edwards may be a guy we seek to move. If I am not mistaken, this is his contract year. He would be a guy we we might be able to trade, the caveat being he signed a new deal with the new team...that might bring a low 1st . Winslow another though his health is a big question mark for teams...I don't think he would bring all that much. In the end i agree with your assessment. While it would be of great benefit to us to get something done pre-draft, it isn't very likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I think 2 players are LIKELY gone via trade: Derek Anderson - He is not going to get us a lot (3rd probably), but for a 3rd he would represent good value to another team. I do agree we probably eat the $5M, but considering his value will actually DROP due to his $7M+ base salary in 2010...we will do what we can to move him. Right now, he can be traded with a contract redo...but next year he would almost certainly need to be cut...so he will get moved (unless he can impress Mangini between now and March 1). Kellen Winslow - Somebody said we can't get the same value for him as his potential catches represent...and I agree. We are not going to get a 1st for him (but we may get a 2nd and a 3rd). The problem with K2 is that he is ALWAYS injurred...his career is going to be short...is a $4.5M cap hit...is bucking for a new contract...and is a FA after 2010. In other words...he is a prime candidate for trading to create cap space. Keep in mind, this is a new regime...and they are going to want to make a mark on this team THIS YEAR! That means that NOBODY is immune. It also means they are going to want as many draft picks as possible to get THEIR kind of players on this team. That means big name players we wouldn't otherwise consider trading are very likely to be on the blocks if the price is right. So others that MAY be on the block are: Braylon Edwards - He is a $4.5M cap hit this year, and a FA after the season. So, again, due to the desire for this team to remake its image...he may be gone. He is basically seen by many as the picture of the Browns failure this past year. Brady Quinn - Yes, we may move Quinn and NOT DA. He obviously has WAY MORE trade value than DA...and Mangini and his team may think they can get Sanchez or Stafford with the #5 pick...and get another 1st round pick for Quinn for a key defensive player. Just saying, don't be surprised. In fact, DA and BQ may both go (but I doubt that). (I would consider moving C.Williams...but we are already WAY short on viable DE's...so I just don't see it happening.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaygroundLegend Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 That's Retarded, Quinn trumps dirty sanchez and matt stafford in every way. Why would we trade our first round QB just to pick up another one? I also think that between Edwards and Winslow.... Edwards will definitely be the one to be traded before K2. Dont get me wrong, I love BE, but this is his contract year and we want to get something for him before he decides to skip town and become Dallas' new TO when he retires. We need our high 2nd rounder, thats when we will draft our savior Rashad Jennings. We might scoop up some more picks (like another 2nd or 3rd) when we trade down to pick 10, when we draft Maualuga We will also receive more picks (a 2nd or 3rd) when we trade DA's stank ass. GO BROWNS 09 BABY!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 hopefully Matthews III will be available at #37. Get A good tailback at 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I dont think any mocks have a RB going in the top 5 do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I dont think any mocks have a RB going in the top 5 do they? Seems I just saw one that had us taking Wells......can't remember the publication or site...it wasn't just some fan posting stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 That's Retarded, Quinn trumps dirty sanchez and matt stafford in every way. Why would we trade our first round QB just to pick up another one? play...like I said...this is a NEW REGIME and are likely to want to put their own stamp on the organization. Keep in mind also that both DA and BQ have been under the past regime for 2yrs. I am not saying they WILL trade both...but I wouldn't be surprised even if they did. I personally think they stop with just trading DA...but NOTHING will surprise me. This club is now officially in REBUILD. They may just gut the entire team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Seems I just saw one that had us taking Wells......can't remember the publication or site...it wasn't just some fan posting stuff. I think Beanie is going to be pretty good, but I think our defense is in much greater need right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I think Beanie is going to be pretty good, but I think our defense is in much greater need right now. I don't get in to needs.....but Wells isn't the 5th best player in the draft...if we take him at #5, I will take a thick rope and hang myself from my deck. WPD....I agree. Nothing is out of the box...and there are bound to be some moves made that are bound to drive some people nuts. Just sit back and watch folks...the team you think we have isn't going to be the team we have in 2 years...and Quinn very well could be one of the changes. Be ready for anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 See what doesn't make sense to me is gutting a team just for the sake of gutting it. Why let guys go who know how to play football at a high level? Wouldn't it make much more sense to get these guys to buy into your system and play for YOU? Who says that isn't going to happen?? But you know darn good and well there are many opinions on who can play and who can't. You can see that on message boards, scouting reports, and in head coaches talk and actions. But no..I am not trying to insinuate we are just going to blow it up and start over for the fun of it. Hopefully it is more a dismantling of the parts that aren't good and re-engineered in to something that is. Palmer took over no team. Just some scrapped players. Davis took over something a little better Crennel something a little better than that. Now Mangini takes over a NFL football team....not all that good, but one that does have some nice parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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