Lombardi draft record

[jcam222]

I was looking through an accounting of draft picks under his direction. My god his hit rate on talent is abysmal. I love our stockpiling draft picks to fill the team with fresh talent. The thing is I am terrified he will squander all of the picks on garbage. It will set us back many years. Does anyone else hope he somehow is toasted and gone before next years draft?

[gftChris]

I was looking through an accounting of draft picks under his direction. My god his hit rate on talent is abysmal. I love our stockpiling draft picks to fill the team with fresh talent. The thing is I am terrified he will squander all of the picks on garbage. It will set us back many years. Does anyone else hope he somehow is toasted and gone before next years draft?

I hope that we actually end up with a lot of input from Norv and Horton in the decision making process, as well as the various scouts involved, so that it's not just Lombardi. Also hope Jimmy Haslam isn't Al Davis in disguise.

[Fargofan]

I share that same fear. Not willing to can him, but hope he can finally get it right.

[The Gipper]

Well, here is the deal of what is truly going on in my opinion:

 

Banner and Heckert had a falling out at the end of their days in Philly, so Banner's desire to get rid of Heckert's top choices is really just a big fuck you to to Heckert. Whether or not the players they want to get rid of are any good and can help this team is irrelevent.

 

Lombardi's reasoning is that he wants "his guys" to play for him. He only wants success if it is achieved by the players he selects so that HE gets credit for procuring those winning players. He would rather have the team lose than for it to win with players chosen by his predecessor. That is why he traded those picks in the draft, and why he traded TR.

 

The hubris and arrogance of these guys is absurd. The problem in Lombardi's case is that YES, his track record at talent evaluation is pathetic.

I suspect that if you went back and recorded all his draft picks the vast, vast majority of them are busts.....a far, far greater percentage than most other GMs have been. He brought you the Tommy Vardell's and Craig Powell's of the world if I am not mistaken....and he brought about another better part of a decade of bad talent with the Raiders.

 

I, for one, DO NOT trust his judgment on talent evaluation. Should these guys be allowed to bring in their own crew? Sure. But that does not mean that we should trust their capabilities.

[Zombo]

I was looking through an accounting of draft picks under his direction. My god his hit rate on talent is abysmal. I love our stockpiling draft picks to fill the team with fresh talent. The thing is I am terrified he will squander all of the picks on garbage. It will set us back many years. Does anyone else hope he somehow is toasted and gone before next years draft?

 

Well, It's not just Lombardi making the picks. Banner has final authority just as Holmgren did.

 

Then you've got the Farmer guy from Kansas City who I think is a big part of the personnel decisons.

 

Looks like they were doing a good job grocery shopping in KC.

 

Let's review some of the talent evaluations so far:

 

Huge shocking contract for Desmond Bryant ... he looks pretty damn good.

 

Totally restructure and beef up the defensive front seven ... so far, so good.

 

Somewhat surprising commitment to Barkevious Mingo with the #6 pick ... he looks immensely talented.

 

Bring in Brian Hoyer ... has already risen to the top of QB depth chart

 

Dump Richardson for a first round pick ... we'll see, but it certainly was ballsy and hopefully, brilliant

 

Plus ... get a draft pick for McCoy, let Phil and Josh walk ... none of that has bitten them in the ass yet.

 

I'm excited to see this all play out, actually.

 

Zombo

[miktoxic]

i'm praying someone on this QB roster will play so damn good that picking another QB with our first pick would seem ridiculous making them go in another direction with their first couple of picks.

 

my biggest fear (jcam22) is that they package both our 1st rounders and maybe even our second rounder to move up to number 1 for a bust QB.

 

i will go apeshit!

[The Gipper]

Well, obviously, I hope it works out. But, again, there is that track record, and if one can judge by history then, as noted, there is no reason for confidence.

I guess I am in that "expect the worse....and not be surprised if you get it" mode. Thus removing the "devastation" that occurs when things go wrong as expected. But if they go right, then we can all be very pleasantly surprised.

 

Its like the lottery: I do buy the tickets;,but, I do expect to lose, and so far my expectations have been met. But, maybe both situations can change and one day soon I will both win the lottery and the moves the Browns make will all be positive and bear fruit and I can be fabulously surprised when it happens.

 

I thought perhaps I had come close. As noted I was in South Carolina for my father in laws funeral. He lived in Lexington County SC. I bought a ticket for the 400 million dollar PowerBall. The next day I hear on the radio that the 400 million dollar winning ticket was purchased in Lexington Co. SC. I said "fuck me" this would be true justice to have my father in law die and win the PowerBall in the same week. But, alas, no. Someone down there did win, but it weren't me.

[Browns149]

I don't think Lombardi has much authority on player personel . He's named GM because someone has to have that title, I guess. He wasn't even in Berea when they traded Trent. He was scouting out of town. I'm sure he has some say and his scouting and evaluations are taken into the decisions, but at the end of the day, Banner is the one calling the shots

[alwardc4]

With all the information available nowadays I think being good or bad at drafting is closer to a zero-sum game than fans realize.

 

For example, possibly the worst GM (Mike Brown) has had some of the most success over the last few years in the draft. This isn't 1985 anymore (hell 1995 even). Information is EVERYWHERE.

[jrb12711]

i'm praying someone on this QB roster will play so damn good that picking another QB with our first pick would seem ridiculous making them go in another direction with their first couple of picks.

 

my biggest fear (jcam22) is that they package both our 1st rounders and maybe even our second rounder to move up to number 1 for a bust QB.

 

i will go apeshit!

 

So you'd honestly be upset if they packaged two first round picks and got a franchise QB at the level of say an Andrew Luck? I'm not saying Bridgewater or the like fit that bill but I wouldn't complain if it played out like that. There's a good reason teams go worst to first after they draft a QB. Of course it'd be awful if the guy ended up being a bust but it's a shot worth taking depending on the situation.

[Flyin J]

Jusy so everyone can see for themselves what kind of "talent evaluator" Lombardi is.

[The Gipper]

Jusy so everyone can see for themselves what kind of "talent evaluator" Lombardi is.

I count 70 players on that list.....and the best choice he ever made was a kicker.....Janikowski. Plus a few solid pros. Asomghua for a bit, and Huff some.

But truly his success rate is about 10%....unless I am missing something. Particularly his Browns years. (first stint)

[flyingfooldoug]

Jusy so everyone can see for themselves what kind of "talent evaluator" Lombardi is.

I hope he can use his mistakes as a learning experience. If so, we should have a stellar draft.

[jcam222]

 

So you'd honestly be upset if they packaged two first round picks and got a franchise QB at the level of say an Andrew Luck? I'm not saying Bridgewater or the like fit that bill but I wouldn't complain if it played out like that. There's a good reason teams go worst to first after they draft a QB. Of course it'd be awful if the guy ended up being a bust but it's a shot worth taking depending on the situation.

I think the point is our luck at first round QB's sucks. Rolling a bunch of picks into a bust would set us back many years. If it pans out of course I and most of us would climb on the band wagon.

[miktoxic]

 

So you'd honestly be upset if they packaged two first round picks and got a franchise QB at the level of say an Andrew Luck? I'm not saying Bridgewater or the like fit that bill but I wouldn't complain if it played out like that. There's a good reason teams go worst to first after they draft a QB. Of course it'd be awful if the guy ended up being a bust but it's a shot worth taking depending on the situation.

 

of course not. but luck was a virtual lock.

 

do you see one in next year's draft? cuz i sure don't.

[The Gipper]

I hope he can use his mistakes as a learning experience. If so, we should have a stellar draft.

He started making his first mistakes in 1992. Now it is 21 years later.

 

His mistakes are now old enough to drink.

[flyingfooldoug]

I count 70 players on that list.....and the best choice he ever made was a kicker.....Janikowski. Plus a few solid pros. Asomghua for a bit, and Huff some.

But truly his success rate is about 10%....unless I am missing something. Particularly his Browns years. (first stint)

And if memory serves me right, using a first round pick on a kicker started a whole lot of shit in that draft and he took heavy criticism for that pick.

[jcam222]

 

Well, It's not just Lombardi making the picks. Banner has final authority just as Holmgren did.

 

Then you've got the Farmer guy from Kansas City who I think is a big part of the personnel decisons.

 

Looks like they were doing a good job grocery shopping in KC.

 

Let's review some of the talent evaluations so far:

 

Huge shocking contract for Desmond Bryant ... he looks pretty damn good.

 

Totally restructure and beef up the defensive front seven ... so far, so good.

 

Somewhat surprising commitment to Barkevious Mingo with the #6 pick ... he looks immensely talented.

 

Bring in Brian Hoyer ... has already risen to the top of QB depth chart

 

Dump Richardson for a first round pick ... we'll see, but it certainly was ballsy and hopefully, brilliant

 

Plus ... get a draft pick for McCoy, let Phil and Josh walk ... none of that has bitten them in the ass yet.

 

I'm excited to see this all play out, actually.

 

Zombo

Good post. You have actually swayed my thinking some. The points are valid that the decisions thus far have been very good. I will stay positive unless they trade Gordon. If they do I will likely go off the deep end lol

[miktoxic]

if the browns were smart they'd send to lombardi to hawaii on vaca during draft week and when he calls with his opinions just have the FO guy that picks up the phone make that squelching noise and say "sorry mike, but your breaking up!" and hang the fuck up.

[miktoxic]

He started making his first mistakes in 1992. Now it is 21 years later.

 

His mistakes are now old enough to drink.

LMAO!

[flyingfooldoug]

Mike Lombardi aka League Source....there will be no front office secrets from what I understand of this guy. Knifes and backs go hand in hand for him

[flyingfooldoug]

He started making his first mistakes in 1992. Now it is 21 years later.

 

His mistakes are now old enough to drink.

LOL...and if they make mistakes will they be "Grand"

[Shep]

Lombardi has never had full authority. He actually wasn't even WITH the Raiders when they picked J-Fat, for example... and everybody knows who made the picks in that town (rhymes with Schmal Scmavis).

 

Lombardi's "current" resume comes from his time with Banner, which obviously went very well, at least in Banner's opinion... his association with Belicheck, which is obviously a fantastic endorsement... his media career... and now. And it's the last one that matters most to me.

 

Do I think Lombardi understands the current league more than Tom Heckert? Heckert traded up to draft a running back at #3, so in my mind, my mother wins over Heckert. So that's a gimme. Then add in that Heckert was part of signing Delhomme and drafting McCoy (although rumored to be against it), it wasn't a very good personnel run.

 

The two offsesons that define Heckert most for me were trading a Pro Bowl #1 WR in Julio Jones for what is turning out to be a very good nose tackle (nobody makes that trade)... and of course the Richardson-Weeden first round that Lombardi hated so, SO badly. It's pretty clear, by guess and insider insinuation, that this regime would've taken Tannehill at #4 and the either a WR or Doug Martin at 22 or whatever that pick was.

 

The advantage goes to Lombardi and Banner obviously. Then they were able to trade bad draft 4s and 5s for good draft 4s and 3s. That's smart football. Then they got a first round draft pick not only for a RUNNING BACK... but one averaging 3.5 YPC for his 19 game, two-team career. He doesn't look special at all to me so for now, in my mind anyway, we fleeced the Colts. You can get a hard-running, one-cut back to get you 4.2 or more 20 times a game in rounds 3, 4, 5, hell... after the draft. And that sets up the pass just fine... and then it comes down to whether you do or don't have one of the best 12 QBs in the NFL.

 

Lombanner brought in Des Bryant, Mingo, and Kruger to transform our front 7 into "one of the best in the league," as the announcers said last week. They stuck by Craig Robertson as a starter, which was smart. They brought in Hoyer and Bess, both looking really shrewd. And they added a 1, a 3, and a 4 for the next draft plus played smart moneyball to put us in strong cap position to not only draft a Bridgewater but also sign a serious WR, Ben Tate, and another lineman to go with him.

 

They've done fantastic work so far. Also love the coaching choices. Plus, they sat Weeden.

[Tour2ma]

True, Shep, but Heckert also tabbed Josh Gordon, who certainly belongs at least at the tail end of any WR discussion at the Julio and AJ level (with Calvin in a class by himself).

 

Also not sure about your Tannehill theory. He was a mega-ballsy pick at #8... at #4 it'd been off the charts balsy.

 

But I do agree that all the moves to date looks promising, if not already solid. Plus, as others have pointed out elsewhere, a whole room full of people will have input into our selection process.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Lombardi has never had full authority. He actually wasn't even WITH the Raiders when they picked J-Fat, for example... and everybody knows who made the picks in that town (rhymes with Schmal Scmavis).

 

Lombardi's "current" resume comes from his time with Banner, which obviously went very well, at least in Banner's opinion... his association with Belicheck, which is obviously a fantastic endorsement... his media career... and now. And it's the last one that matters most to me.

 

Do I think Lombardi understands the current league more than Tom Heckert? Heckert traded up to draft a running back at #3, so in my mind, my mother wins over Heckert. So that's a gimme. Then add in that Heckert was part of signing Delhomme and drafting McCoy (although rumored to be against it), it wasn't a very good personnel run.

 

The two offsesons that define Heckert most for me were trading a Pro Bowl #1 WR in Julio Jones for what is turning out to be a very good nose tackle (nobody makes that trade)... and of course the Richardson-Weeden first round that Lombardi hated so, SO badly. It's pretty clear, by guess and insider insinuation, that this regime would've taken Tannehill at #4 and the either a WR or Doug Martin at 22 or whatever that pick was.

 

The advantage goes to Lombardi and Banner obviously. Then they were able to trade bad draft 4s and 5s for good draft 4s and 3s. That's smart football. Then they got a first round draft pick not only for a RUNNING BACK... but one averaging 3.5 YPC for his 19 game, two-team career. He doesn't look special at all to me so for now, in my mind anyway, we fleeced the Colts. You can get a hard-running, one-cut back to get you 4.2 or more 20 times a game in rounds 3, 4, 5, hell... after the draft. And that sets up the pass just fine... and then it comes down to whether you do or don't have one of the best 12 QBs in the NFL.

 

Lombanner brought in Des Bryant, Mingo, and Kruger to transform our front 7 into "one of the best in the league," as the announcers said last week. They stuck by Craig Robertson as a starter, which was smart. They brought in Hoyer and Bess, both looking really shrewd. And they added a 1, a 3, and a 4 for the next draft plus played smart moneyball to put us in strong cap position to not only draft a Bridgewater but also sign a serious WR, Ben Tate, and another lineman to go with him.

 

They've done fantastic work so far. Also love the coaching choices. Plus, they sat Weeden.

Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Montario Hardesty, Shaun Lauvao, Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Motchell Schwartz and Travis Benjamin were also taken by Heckert, so factor that into your decision as well.

 

He may have a 50/50 shot with top talent, but he stocked this team with solid starters in the middle rounds which paved the way for Banner and Co. to be able to go for broke on the first rounders.

 

Imagine adding a QB or WR to TE talent pool we had in 2008. Half of our guys were over the hill and the other half were practice squad rejects.

 

Of the 8 OL on the final roster that year, only one is still in the league, and that's Joe Thomas. Even Steiny was on the tail end of his career.

 

We had the top tier WR corps of Syndric Steptoe, Paul Hubbard, Josh Cribbs and Donte Stallworth behind our #1 Braylon. All of them, except Braylon, are out of the league.

 

Our TE's were Brad Cieslak, Darnell Dinkins, and John Madsen. K2 was out with staph. All out of the league.

 

Our LB corps consisted of Andra Davis, Titus Brown, Alex Hall, Willie McGinest, Leon Williams, DQJ and Kam Wimbley. All but two are out of the league. One was traded by Heckert for a third round pick, which was later used on Colt McCoy (regrettably), which most can agree has been our best starting QB since DA's fluke season. The other is our centerpiece LB.

 

Our defensive backfield consisted of Hamza Abdullah, Mike Adams, Sean Jones, Eric Wright, Brandon McDonald, Terry Cousin, and Travis Daniels. At least there's 3 of them still in the league.

 

 

Our DL also featured 3 players that still start in this league in Shaun Rogers, Ahtyba Rubin and Corey Williams. The rest? Gone, baby, gone.

 

The IR was a who's who of retired mediocre players. Players like Ken Dorsey, Robaire Smith, Antwaan Peek, Steve Heiden and Joe J.

 

Heckert may not have been some whiz kid GM who stocked our roster with a plethora of future HOF players but he turned an aging, unwatchable abortion of a team into a solid corps of young talent.

 

He wasn't what we wanted at the time but he was what we needed- a guy who understood that winning takes time and made picks that set us up for the future, but ultimately cost him his job.

 

Just a quick count, but that's 11 people of 41 still active. I'm sure there are a couple more, but there can't be any more than 15 members of our 52 man roster that still start today, 5 years later.

 

And the best two of the remaining starters are still in Cleveland.

[miktoxic]

Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Montario Hardesty, Shaun Lauvao, Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Motchell Schwartz and Travis Benjamin were also taken by Heckert, so factor that into your decision as well.

 

He may have a 50/50 shot with top talent, but he stocked this team with solid starters in the middle rounds which paved the way for Banner and Co. to be able to go for broke on the first rounders.

 

Imagine adding a QB or WR to TE talent pool we had in 2008. Half of our guys were over the hill and the other half were practice squad rejects.

 

Of the 8 OL on the final roster that year, only one is still in the league, and that's Joe Thomas. Even Steiny was on the tail end of his career.

 

We had the top tier WR corps of Syndric Steptoe, Paul Hubbard, Josh Cribbs and Donte Stallworth behind our #1 Braylon. All of them, except Braylon, are out of the league.

 

Our TE's were Brad Cieslak, Darnell Dinkins, and John Madsen. K2 was out with staph. All out of the league.

 

Our LB corps consisted of Andra Davis, Titus Brown, Alex Hall, Willie McGinest, Leon Williams, DQJ and Kam Wimbley. All but two are out of the league. One was traded by Heckert for a third round pick, which was later used on Colt McCoy (regrettably), which most can agree has been our best starting QB since DA's fluke season. The other is our centerpiece LB.

 

Our defensive backfield consisted of Hamza Abdullah, Mike Adams, Sean Jones, Eric Wright, Brandon McDonald, Terry Cousin, and Travis Daniels. At least there's 3 of them still in the league.

 

 

Our DL also featured 3 players that still start in this league in Shaun Rogers, Ahtyba Rubin and Corey Williams. The rest? Gone, baby, gone.

 

The IR was a who's who of retired mediocre players. Players like Ken Dorsey, Robaire Smith, Antwaan Peek, Steve Heiden and Joe J.

 

Heckert may not have been some whiz kid GM who stocked our roster with a plethora of future HOF players but he turned an aging, unwatchable abortion of a team into a solid corps of young talent.

 

He wasn't what we wanted at the time but he was what we needed- a guy who understood that winning takes time and made picks that set us up for the future, but ultimately cost him his job.

 

Just a quick count, but that's 11 people of 41 still active. I'm sure there are a couple more, but there can't be any more than 15 members of our 52 man roster that still start today, 5 years later.

 

And the best two of the remaining starters are still in Cleveland.

 

great post. learned a lot.

[ballpeen]

 

Well, It's not just Lombardi making the picks. Banner has final authority just as Holmgren did.

 

Then you've got the Farmer guy from Kansas City who I think is a big part of the personnel decisons.

 

Looks like they were doing a good job grocery shopping in KC.

 

Let's review some of the talent evaluations so far:

 

Huge shocking contract for Desmond Bryant ... he looks pretty damn good.

 

Totally restructure and beef up the defensive front seven ... so far, so good.

 

Somewhat surprising commitment to Barkevious Mingo with the #6 pick ... he looks immensely talented.

 

Bring in Brian Hoyer ... has already risen to the top of QB depth chart

 

Dump Richardson for a first round pick ... we'll see, but it certainly was ballsy and hopefully, brilliant

 

Plus ... get a draft pick for McCoy, let Phil and Josh walk ... none of that has bitten them in the ass yet.

 

I'm excited to see this all play out, actually.

 

Zombo

Nice recap.

 

I think some people aren't looking at what is happening. So far, every move we have made is solid.

[miktoxic]

Nice recap.

 

I think some people aren't looking at what is happening. So far, every move we have made is solid.

we'll all see how solid it is next april.

[ballpeen]

That be true!

[Richiswhere]

Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Montario Hardesty, Shaun Lauvao, Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Motchell Schwartz and Travis Benjamin were also taken by Heckert, so factor that into your decision as well.

 

He may have a 50/50 shot with top talent, but he stocked this team with solid starters in the middle rounds which paved the way for Banner and Co. to be able to go for broke on the first rounders.

 

Imagine adding a QB or WR to TE talent pool we had in 2008. Half of our guys were over the hill and the other half were practice squad rejects.

 

Of the 8 OL on the final roster that year, only one is still in the league, and that's Joe Thomas. Even Steiny was on the tail end of his career.

 

We had the top tier WR corps of Syndric Steptoe, Paul Hubbard, Josh Cribbs and Donte Stallworth behind our #1 Braylon. All of them, except Braylon, are out of the league.

 

Our TE's were Brad Cieslak, Darnell Dinkins, and John Madsen. K2 was out with staph. All out of the league.

 

Our LB corps consisted of Andra Davis, Titus Brown, Alex Hall, Willie McGinest, Leon Williams, DQJ and Kam Wimbley. All but two are out of the league. One was traded by Heckert for a third round pick, which was later used on Colt McCoy (regrettably), which most can agree has been our best starting QB since DA's fluke season. The other is our centerpiece LB.

 

Our defensive backfield consisted of Hamza Abdullah, Mike Adams, Sean Jones, Eric Wright, Brandon McDonald, Terry Cousin, and Travis Daniels. At least there's 3 of them still in the league.

 

 

Our DL also featured 3 players that still start in this league in Shaun Rogers, Ahtyba Rubin and Corey Williams. The rest? Gone, baby, gone.

 

The IR was a who's who of retired mediocre players. Players like Ken Dorsey, Robaire Smith, Antwaan Peek, Steve Heiden and Joe J.

 

Heckert may not have been some whiz kid GM who stocked our roster with a plethora of future HOF players but he turned an aging, unwatchable abortion of a team into a solid corps of young talent.

 

He wasn't what we wanted at the time but he was what we needed- a guy who understood that winning takes time and made picks that set us up for the future, but ultimately cost him his job.

 

Just a quick count, but that's 11 people of 41 still active. I'm sure there are a couple more, but there can't be any more than 15 members of our 52 man roster that still start today, 5 years later.

 

And the best two of the remaining starters are still in Cleveland.

You can add Jordan Cameron, Buster Skrine, Jason Pinkston, John Hughs, Billy Winn and Craig Robertson to that list as well.

 

I will say this as bad as Lombardi's draft record is I sure as hell don't want some finance guy telling us who we are drafting.