Solon16 Posted January 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 HEART is the biggest factor...atleast on the Defensive side of the Ball!! Seems to me LB's out of USC have always been a solid yet safe choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I looked all over for a 96 mock draft w/ profiles, couldn't find it. However, this is what Wikipedia has to say about Ray: So the guy we consider a "thumper" was often considered too small to play the position. I think it goes to show attitude and work ethic are bigger factors at ilb than the cookie cutter mold. Even now Lewis only weighs in at 245. So guys who think you need a beast in the middle (size wise) are a little out of touch. It is more the WAY you play than the SIZE. By the way...Lewis is an UNDER CONTROL LB. Meaning he DOES NOT over-pursue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Here's another Maualuga highlight reel: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Here's another Maualuga highlight reel: Wow...that was painful to watch. He took himself out of over half of those...and got lost in traffic in the other half. And that was just one game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Even now Lewis only weighs in at 245. So guys who think you need a beast in the middle (size wise) are a little out of touch. It is more the WAY you play than the SIZE. By the way...Lewis is an UNDER CONTROL LB. Meaning he DOES NOT over-pursue. and that is what is wrong with Davis. He is not under control, doesn't have speed or react well and can't get off of blocks. One of the main things I would look at for a 3-4 ILB is the ability to get off blocks and not get caught up in traffic. I see Curry and Malaluga both doing that well. Curry may play a little more under control. Rey tries to make the highlight film hits too often instead of just making the tackle. But, my original point was that I see players slip because of measurables not fitting into what teams or scouts think are stock weight, height or speed. Lewis fell in the draft because of some character issues but also because of what scouts perceived as lack of ideal size. That's overanalysis. Jerry Rice, too slow; Drew Brees, lack of arm strength; Sproles and Drew-Jones, too small. Sometimes you just got to realize a guy can flat out play football and forget the measurables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Here's another Maualuga highlight reel: The first few plays - One they ran away from Rey. Another was a screen where 3 different olinemen were looking for #58 and found him (respect? - you bet). Someone SHOULD have made the play in a defense full of superstars right? Another play, Rey clogged the hole and the runner cutback to another hole. LBers fill so this one was on the others to make the play. Let me pose this question, which ONE of the USC interior Dlinemen was playing the role of Shaun Rogers in this matchup the same way Shaun Rogers would play the role? Quite honestly, I DID see a couple of bad plays from Rey but I didn't notice Cushing or Matthews or anyone else setting the world on fire. I'd be lying if I said I did. Does that mean that they are all overrated? I don't think so. They pounded Penn State and Ohio State pretty decisively. If I summed up the Baltimore Ravens Defense after the Giants ran all over it, through it and around it - would I have an accurate depiction of WHO they are? I'm gonna say no, it was more of an exception to the rule. If I summed up the NY Giants defense after the Cleveland Browns trashed it - would I have the 2008 rule or exception? Everbody has a bad day. What put Rey on the map with me was his 2007 season and his continuous ability to jar footballs loose or cause turnovers throughout his career at USC. When I look at the level of competition, I see the Pac 10 was undefeated in their 5 Bowl Games right? Meanwhile Wake Forest played Navy and got behind against them when all Navy was doing was running the option. Nothing fancy - just predictable. That said, if I told you Curry didn't dominate or make a bunch of tackles without telling you Navy planned EXCLUSIVELY for avoiding Curry would I be fair in saying Curry didn't do a ton that game? No, his PRESENCE alone, caused them to run away from him, which should have made the predictability easier on Curry's teammates. That Oregon game didn't exactly endorse Cushing or Matthews either but does that mean they shouldn't be drafted in the first 2 rounds? Hell no! I like BOTH LBers (Rey & Curry) for completely different reasons. I understand Rey is going to get alot of negative hype and people will look for his worst games. Whatever. As the 2007 draft got closer - all I heard about Peterson was his injury proneness and that he was still injured. Every year there's a guy the experts want to tear down BUT is that because they REALLY want some guys sliding to their door step? It doesn't matter what I want - what matters is if we have the RIGHT people doing the research we'll know if a character is worth avoiding or adding. We'll know if a skill level is a 3-4 fit or better off elsewhere. As much as I LOVE the highlight collages put together - don't forget we had the ACC's Offensive Player of the Year on our team by the name of Chris Barclay. I'm guessing you could have found PLENTY of impressive highlights of him in the open fields against the ACC competition. Haven't we drafted 3 ACC LBers (Williams, Jackson, and Wimbley)? Which one of those guys is our X-factor right now? Who jars footballs loose or scores TDs on opposing offenses like LBers from BETTER 3-4s? Curry LOOKS to have impressive skills BUT does that mean he's perfect for a 3-4? I HOPE so but I'd be a fool to say Clemson or Navy presents the SAME challenges the AFC North presents when we understand what division played in the AFC Championship. It wasn't THAT long ago we were watching the video collages of Wimbley's greatest moments at FSU. I remembered cautioning people PRE draft about Wimbley not putting up the type of sack volumes that Peppers and LT once had, if THAT was who they were expecting. I also remembered hearing about it when he had MORE sacks as an NFL rookie than he ever had in any 1 season in college. Trouble is - those have disappeared as film technology has prepared NFL caliber tackles for his 1 move. That's not an opinion as much as it is an inconvenient truth. I have Curry #1A and Rey 1B on defense; BUT I'm just a sweat that drinks beer, chows Doritos and refuses to acknowledge weaknesses when I decide I like a player. If I didn't like Rey, I'd be on a quest to find his worst game, share it and say this is the rule not the exception. I noticed there aren't any bad videos of Curry. Is that because he never makes mistakes? Curry reminds me MOST of Carl Banks (main reason he's #1 IMO but read on), which means he will be GREAT but the NFL 3-4 took Banks 3 years to find comfort and master into who the Giants wanted him to be according to Parcells. I ALSO notice BB prefers to start LBers with experience in his 3-4 like when he signed Pepper Johnson and Carl Banks for us or when he chose to make Vrabel and Bruschi his consistent backbone of the LBer corps. He's added vets like Seau, Colvin and Thomas. Mayo is the only rookie LBer I've seen him start which is an exception to the rule with BB. Dick LeBeau seems like he likes guys like Timmons and Woodley well trained before starting them as wide eyed rookies too. I'd really like a SUDDEN impact with the #5 overall so Rey is my 1B (challenging my 1A mood daily) because I believe he'd offer a quicker impact BUT Cury looks to have more upside for growth if I'm being honest with my limited assessments confined to Curry's greatest plays. If the draft meets us with where we are at now - adding Rey to a 3-4 that he's USED to playing in with a perk of Shaun Rogers in front of him - there's an intriguing chemistry and temptation of making me choose now over upside. IMO, liking one doesn't mean the other has to suck. It also means that's just 1 man's opinion. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted January 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 I like Curry too Mostly from his play but the amazing insight I have gained about him in the Butkisaward.com interview....they interviewed everyone in his circle of friends and family and coaches...etc....This dude has that three Intangibles you can't coach, teach or learn ....WILL. He wants to be the best ever to play....DRIVE.....GYM RAT, FILM RAT and HEART....those three aren't on any highlight reel or seen readily. I'd take him at five but he won't be there imo....REY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgTracker Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 If I knew that Rey could lay two big hits on Ben each game it would be worth the number 5 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 I like Curry too Mostly from his play but the amazing insight I have gained about him in the Butkisaward.com interview....they interviewed everyone in his circle of friends and family and coaches...etc....This dude has that three Intangibles you can't coach, teach or learn ....WILL. He wants to be the best ever to play....DRIVE.....GYM RAT, FILM RAT and HEART....those three aren't on any highlight reel or seen readily. I'd take him at five but he won't be there imo....REY! It's still very, very early and someone else may emerge as a top pick, but I can't see him not being there. If he isn't there we would be sitting with a QB in our lap that at least 4 team might want to trade up for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I like Curry too Mostly from his play but the amazing insight I have gained about him in the Butkisaward.com interview....they interviewed everyone in his circle of friends and family and coaches...etc....This dude has that three Intangibles you can't coach, teach or learn ....WILL. He wants to be the best ever to play....DRIVE.....GYM RAT, FILM RAT and HEART....those three aren't on any highlight reel or seen readily. Do you have a link? I couldn't find it on the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted February 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Do you have a link? I couldn't find it on the site. I found it on the Butkusaward.com site but it isn't there anymore...?! I'll continue to search for that interview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qFKx-KpQkM Still can't find Curry interview...getting pist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qFKx-KpQkM peace!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 joe montana was valued as a 3rd rounder......@ #5 would you take him number 1 if you had hindsight on "VALUE"? Tom Brady? what about Ray Lewis? troy polomalu? Dan Marino? Junior seau? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfSsetj_LAk...=1&index=16 Knorton Interview with Ken Norton...say Rey is way better than I was Just watched interview with Mike Singletary on NFL network... says Patrick willis will be way better than he is and one of a kind MLB. My prediction SF ( if they get there Qb situation solidified) will be in playoffs next year under Singletary.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Here's another Maualuga highlight reel: That is just plain ugly. After watching that, Laurenaitis looks like a better athlete. He's looks more fluid than Rey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobalaz Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 joe montana was valued as a 3rd rounder......@ #5 would you take him number 1 if you had hindsight on "VALUE"? Tom Brady? what about Ray Lewis? troy polomalu? Dan Marino? Junior seau? Ever think that to some of these guys getting drafted lower than what they felt the should have gone at may have put the chip on their shoulder and drove them to be better than if they had been that higher pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Ever think that to some of these guys getting drafted lower than what they felt the should have gone at may have put the chip on their shoulder and drove them to be better than if they had been that higher pick? WELL said Tobalaz! Remember how many RBs were drafted ahead of Thurman Thomas and Ernest Byner? The year we selected Gerrard Warren, somebody else got a pretty freakin MOTIVATED LaDanian Tomlinson a couple slots later. And wasn't Deuce mcAlister out to prove he was better than 26th overall? One guy felt he ALREADY proved himself before the rookie signign bonus while the other guy was PISSED he didn't have the same signing bonus. I've always felt there's somethign about a guy that WANTS to prove himself. Don't take this the WRONG way because I LIKE Michael Crabtree and think he CAN have a positive future. I really think if he goes to the best FIT - he'll be REAL good. What's to say Charles Rogers (arguably the consensus at the time) wouldn't have turned out better in a much better environment? Haven't we seen 2 different extremes of Braylon Edwards when the environment was conducive for success and when it was conducive for yuck? Going WR early NEVER helped the Detroit Lions. Troy Williamson was supposed to be the missing ingredient in Minnesota and that never materialized. On the OTHER hand, Tory Holt went to a team that already had a Marshall Faulk capable of a 1000 yards receiving and rushing (4.2 speed opens that door), Ike Bruce (FINALLY healthy), Ricky Proehl and Az Hakim. PERFECT environment where he got matchup Heaven. Come to think of it, Warner never thought that environment sucked either. Reggie Wayne walked into a VERY similar environment with Marvin Harrison as did Anthony Gonzales a little later. Environment is everything as is chemistry. If we went WR rather get the speed that stretches a D and changes the way our OC can play chess. Crabtree is very similar to Edwards so I'm not sold he is ideal chemistry. This isn't the Big 12 - they play defense in the AFC North. I remember PeeWee Warrick got ALOT more predraft love than Lavey Coles. Who's the BETTER pro? The guy with something to prove right? Hakeem Nicks falls into this category as do some other guys getting less predraft love. There's some cities like Chicago that fell for a David Terrell in round 1 and he wasn't worth ball sweat folks. Crabtree would be GREAT for a team like the Buffalo Bills already equipped with Lee Evans as their deep threat. This is just a hunch, but if Crabtree didn't feel compelled to HIDE a forty time - he'd be running in Indy. That hints to me he's gonna be a possession/go-to type of guy with many teams that NEED that. Looking at our 2007 crew we don't need this MORE than a guy that can turn a 8 yard slant into a 70 yard TD sprint after the catch. We're NOT beating zone blitzes with speed and our 1960s running game isn't beating the zone blitz schemes either so I'll swim against the current and hope we pass on Crabtree. - Tom F. (If we DRAFT Crabtree, that'll be because we have plans of trading either Edwards OR Winslow. In that scenario - I would see him as a better fit than I do right now. It might also mean more draft picks for us) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 - Tom F. (If we DRAFT Crabtree, that'll be because we have plans of trading either Edwards OR Winslow. In that scenario - I would see him as a better fit than I do right now. It might also mean more draft picks for us) Why would drafting a WR effect or cause the Browns to plan to trade a TE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Why would drafting a WR effect or cause the Browns to plan to trade a TE? Because we don't play Winslow LIKE a traditional TE. We play him more like a slot receiver except he gets in a 3 point stance and stays close to the OT. That said, we don't count on him to block unless he's downfield with DBs on his radar. Think about it when do you see Winslow ever setting the edge on a sweep? Never, because he can't especially after 3-4 knee surgeries and a couple lingering staph infections. When we want to set the edge with a TE blocking - you'll see us going with Heiden to accomplish that because he can. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Because we don't play Winslow LIKE a traditional TE. We play him more like a slot receiver except he gets in a 3 point stance and stays close to the OT. That said, we don't count on him to block unless he's downfield with DBs on his radar. Think about it when do you see Winslow ever setting the edge on a sweep? Never, because he can't especially after 3-4 knee surgeries and a couple lingering staph infections. When we want to set the edge with a TE blocking - you'll see us going with Heiden to accomplish that because he can. - Tom F. Playing like a slot receiver except for getting in a three point stance and lining close to the OT is the exact definition of a TE. I'm not sure of your point. The Cleveland Browns ran a sweep? All year I remember one actual 'sweep' with Jerome Harrison. While Winslow may be more athletic and less of a blocker than many Tight Ends, the Browns use him in a very traditional role for that position. On occasion he may come out for a short yardage play, but for the most part he has been very involved in the run game as well. Either way, trading Winslow would have zero impact on the drafting of a wide receiver. No matter how you use that tight end. They are two different postions. If you Bring crabtree in, why would trading Winslow be something the Browns would do as resut of that pick? That simply doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Playing like a slot receiver except for getting in a three point stance and lining close to the OT is the exact definition of a TE. I'm not sure of your point. The Cleveland Browns ran a sweep? All year I remember one actual 'sweep' with Jerome Harrison. While Winslow may be more athletic and less of a blocker than many Tight Ends, the Browns use him in a very traditional role for that position. On occasion he may come out for a short yardage play, but for the most part he has been very involved in the run game as well. Either way, trading Winslow would have zero impact on the drafting of a wide receiver. No matter how you use that tight end. They are two different postions. If you Bring crabtree in, why would trading Winslow be something the Browns would do as resut of that pick? That simply doesn't make sense. LESS FILLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope you don't think I'm picking on you today because I enjoy your coversations and appreciate your knowledge. I thought I clarified this but I guess I did a ratty job. Let me try again. IMO, a REAL traditional TE is asked the seal the edge for sweeps OR take on a DE all by himself if we want to go off tackle and that is not what has been asked of Winslow here. Hence, he comes out and Heiden goes in when we want the well rounded TRADITIONAL TE like Bavaro was or Heath Miller is. IMO, we're LESS predictable when Heiden plays TE. I thought the game against the NY Giants that Winslow MISSED reflects that statement pretty good instead of us adverstising we're putting the guy that can't block DEs on the field now so guess where we aren't running? And WHY we aren't running? In other words, THIS might be a GOOD TIME to blitz us because Winslow is in and that means pass more often than run. I think the Giants found the same difference when they went from a 1 dimensional Shockey (whom Winslow patterns his play after) to a more versatile TE with better blocking skills. Shockey didn't take the Saints to another level - instead people asked what was missing. Meanwhile NY won their first SB since Shockey arrived (without him) and they defended it with 2 different RBs attaining over 1000 yards rushing. Coincidence? I doubt it. Better blocking and less predictability. That's why when people speak of Winslow around the league they say he's MORE of a WR than a TE for the obvious reasons I just mentioned. Trouble is after 4 knee surgeries he's losing a step or 2 and he's not very good at blocking DEs not to be confused with smaller DBs downfield. Are we at least on the same page with this? I'd LOVE for Winslow to be the same kid we saw against OSU but that was before his first surgery scar right? Back to the reason he was mentioned in the first place - I don't see us drafting a possession WR first UNLESS we were trading away Winslow. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Winslow become a Diva in the huddle and on the sidelines if our QB prefers other targets more frequently? That's why I speak of environment and chemistry. If we DID go WR in round 1, it would be nice to add a speedster known for an ability of taking any throw to the end zone. Easier said than done though. Maclin and Harvin didn't run the times I expected so I'm not thinking WR at all. Not that this means anything in the bigger picture. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.