calfoxwc Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 political opinion is hardly relatable to medical science. We are talking opinion here. So, other's opinions, with additional material, as well as material I already knew, is pertinent to showing that I'm not just being "dumb" because somebody doesn't agree with me. I don't have to prove my opinion has a right to be posted. My opinions originate over time. Old college classes in history, current events, and all sorts of people's opinions that I respect, and where applicable, my own life experiences. I read a lot. I never have adapted opinions straight from the media. But if someone disagrees with my opinions, I can show off hand that many others came to the same conclusions that I did. And, their reasons may be the same as mine, or different, combination of both... I don't do well to not listen to experts who I personally already agree with. My opinions have usually stood the test of time. That's decades. Like the Middle East. Tupa and I had a great discussion on that, in great detail. I was surprised at how much I remembered, and how much he knew. It's history. And conclusions from that history are not going to necessarily be compatible. It's a developing , fun thing for me. That's why I'm here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 "I don't do well to not listen to experts who I personally already agree with." The confirmation bias is thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Of course it is. Opinions are not objective. They are subjective. There isn't any alpha opinionater on my part. Whatever ya think, that's fine. The pouty lib side can't stand opinions they don't share. That's all. I'm analytical to a fault. It served me well as a programmer/analyst-business/analyst, project manager. But as much as that skill was a virtue in my work, it was a vice anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I'm sorry to interrupt again but exactly which facts are in dispute because of the source material here? And which subjects on this board, on the news, in the papers and everywhere else are not the products of someone's opinion? And just because a source is biased does not necessarily mean they are wrong or that their opinion is right. Just saying. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Exactly. Just because a story comes from 'Right wing News' doesn't mean it is not factual. I would hope we can all see through the bullshit and pick out the facts. If you can't, then maybe the problem is with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'm sorry to interrupt again but exactly which facts are in dispute because of the source material here? And which subjects on this board, on the news, in the papers and everywhere else are not the products of someone's opinion? And just because a source is biased does not necessarily mean they are wrong or that their opinion is right. Just saying. WSS I think (for this thread) it was on page 1 or 2 where there was an article posted where the author's "sources" were links to his opinions he's posted on his website already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'm sorry to interrupt again but exactly which facts are in dispute because of the source material here? And which subjects on this board, on the news, in the papers and everywhere else are not the products of someone's opinion? And just because a source is biased does not necessarily mean they are wrong or that their opinion is right. Just saying. WSS The problem is when you start claiming that some opinion piece from Joe Jerkoff is fact without actually looking into it. If we believed everything we read from (insert source), we wouldn't be learning a damn thing. News sites aren't there to inform but to make money. That is it. They don't care whether or not it is true. That goes for MSNBC, Fox, CNN, etc. I would only trust them on things that are obvious enough that they can't be slanted (i.e. 9/11, Boston Bombing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 The problem is when you start claiming that some opinion piece from Joe Jerkoff is fact without actually looking into it. If we believed everything we read from (insert source), we wouldn't be learning a damn thing. News sites aren't there to inform but to make money. That is it. They don't care whether or not it is true. That goes for MSNBC, Fox, CNN, etc. I would only trust them on things that are obvious enough that they can't be slanted (i.e. 9/11, Boston Bombing).I think I understand your complaint but again what facts are we talking about here that you believe might be lies because source: a or source b is biased? Also I disagree on the idea that these news outlets don't care if something is true or not. I think they are certainly biased and present a side of the case meant to appeal to those who already believe in that particular ideology. Still I don't think they make this shit up out of whole cloth. For example I believe Rachel Maddow is something of a shrike yet I think she's intelligent and doesn't particularly make things up even though the slant and the opinion plain.The idea is to take a core truth and build upon as you wish. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I think I understand your complaint but again what facts are we talking about here that you believe might be lies because source: a or source b is biased? Also I disagree on the idea that these news outlets don't care if something is true or not. I think they are certainly biased and present a side of the case meant to appeal to those who already believe in that particular ideology. Still I don't think they make this shit up out of whole cloth. For example I believe Rachel Maddow is something of a shrike yet I think she's intelligent and doesn't particularly make things up even though the slant and the opinion plain. The idea is to take a core truth and build upon as you wish. WSS Agree, if you make stuff up and don't fact check, you get found out by intelligent people. For example, Fox News reporting on Obamacare saying if Stephen Hawking had been born in the UK, he would have died on the NHS. That sticks with you, and gives you a negative view of anything they report in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Agree, if you make stuff up and don't fact check, you get found out by intelligent people. For example, Fox News reporting on Obamacare saying if Stephen Hawking had been born in the UK, he would have died on the NHS. That sticks with you, and gives you a negative view of anything they report in the future. That's not exactly hard news reporting, now is it? That's an opinion which may possibly well be true. Here's an eye witness account for you. The doctor that performed a heart operation for me, implanting a stent, was from Toronto. Its not a major operation but a great breakthrough and heart disease. I asked him how it came to be he was practicing in the United States. He told me in Canada that by the time he'd have been able to see me and perform this procedure my heart would likely be so damaged that I would be invalid or dead. I know you get a little defensive about socialized medicine but it does have its downside as well. Was he speculating? Yes. So what? Over the last years when I was playing in a band we spent a great deal of time in Canada and I guarantee that no American covered under American health insurance would accept the treatment available. Just saying. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 PS is that the fact you guys are taking Cal to task about? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 That's not exactly hard news reporting, now is it? That's an opinion which may possibly well be true. Here's an eye witness account for you. The doctor that performed a heart operation for me, implanting a stent, was from Toronto. Its not a major operation but a great breakthrough and heart disease. I asked him how it came to be he was practicing in the United States. He told me in Canada that by the time he'd have been able to see me and perform this procedure my heart would likely be so damaged that I would be invalid or dead. I know you get a little defensive about socialized medicine but it does have its downside as well. Was he speculating? Yes. So what? Over the last years when I was playing in a band we spent a great deal of time in Canada and I guarantee that no American covered under American health insurance would accept the treatment available. Just saying. WSS It was more just the fact that someone would say this and try to have it respected as an opinion, when clearly they're plucking things out of their arse. Not the time or place for a socialized healthcare debate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 he problem is when you start claiming that some opinion piece from Joe Jerkoff is fact without actually looking into it. Logic It was more just the fact that someone would say this and try to have it respected as an opinion, when clearly they're plucking things out of their arse. Not the time or place for a socialized healthcare debate. Chris ************************************************* I am not claiming any opinion is fact. Strongly held opinions, sure. All that is, is just deductive reasoning based on whatever facts one cherry picks as valid. Said picking is pretty invalid when you deliberately only cherry pick to create the deduction one desires. That's obvious. But I can go find many facts and opinions, and other's life experiences, on and on and on, to continually add justification for an opinion. Over the years, it isn't easy to throw all that out, just because somebody says their opinion, and that simply trumps my opinion. Sounds like we need to define rules of communication around here, eh? And generally, Chris, I figure that it isn't a matter of "plucking out of an arse". It's more a matter of complexity, and not desiring to write a 300 page dissertation to justify the right to an opinion every time. Many of my strongly held opinions, beliefs... are developed over several decades. That's an awful lot of experiences and learning about things, cumulatively, to repost every time i have an opinion. And, often, when someone makes a good point to the contrary, it doesn't outweigh everything else. Some more shallowly held opinions, it's far easier and more valid to change an opinion with evidence to the contrary of said opinion. Which is fine. Nobody wants to keep hold of opinions that are crap. Like football players in the draft. Most all of us change opinions on players from week to week even. maybe even day to day. It all too often comes down to honestly held opinions vs emotional manipulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 It was more just the fact that someone would say this and try to have it respected as an opinion, when clearly they're plucking things out of their arse. Not the time or place for a socialized healthcare debate...Who in fact (and when) reported this as a news story? It sounds like is very credible opinion does it not? I'm not calling you a liar but I searched the web and I found know news report from Fox stating that Hawking would have died from this disease in the UK.Perhaps it is merely pride in our medical system but I would guess anyone with any serious disease would have a somewhat better chance of survival here. Regardless of cost. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Maybe it wasn't fox, let me check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Maybe it was Samantha Fox? You are British actually... WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Investor's Business Daily, apparently. Not sure where I got the idea it was fox. Anyway, they've modified the original article, but you can find the quotes easily enough: “People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn’t have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless,” Hawking's reply: "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS," he said. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived." General coverage from 2009 on the references to the NHS in the obamacare debate. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/13/uk-hits-health-reform-untruths/ (I went for a fox link, just for the giggles) Anyway, must have been something else that put me off fox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Anyway, must have been something else that put me off fox ******************************** PIcked up some liberal bigotry from over here somehow? @@ It's an epidemic over here in some states.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 An epidemic that swept over people who don't want to be spoonfed MSNBC, Fox News, CNN, etc. horse shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Actually, no. There have been folks who were let go from CNN and MSNBC for voicing opininions that weren't liberal enough. They ended up with Fox. Like Juan Williams. Fox presents both sides. I watch it all the time, and they do. Much to my disgust, like with Alan Colmes, that cowardly, liberal leftist apologist scumbucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Fox is fair and balanced? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Fox is fair and balanced? Lol Yeah it is funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Fox is fair and balanced? Lol As fair and balanced as the new york times I guess. So besides and occasional clip the daily show from where do you get your news reporting Woodrow? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 You got me. All Daily Show and Colbert Report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 For balance, you get liberal pieces like this: http://www.salon.com/2014/02/19/gops_pitiful_non_existent_agenda_can_these_cowards_win_by_failing/?source=huffpo N.B. - article was just posted to show an example of bias, not for the content! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 You got me. All Daily Show and Colbert Report seriously. And to be honest I don't even think you pay that much attention to those two, probably just a few clips you saw. matter of fact I don't hear much besides just telling someone else they're full of shit weather you know what they're talking about or not. so what news sources do you read on a daily basis hard news and unbiased? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I can't say I do areas any newspapers on a daily basis. I don't watch any news on TV either. I'm a college student and usually pretty busy. If I want to find out more about a story I Google it. I'm geverally just looking for the facts of the situation at that point. I couldn't tell you where I normally go to. I also end up reading a ton of the super right wing BS Cal posts here. So if anything overall what I read is biased right, lol . I find though if it is easy to pick out any faulty logic in the article though then it doesn't do it any good. I do watch the Daily Show and Colbert Report on my laptop every day though. Break from school stuff. A lot of what is argued on here has little to do with current news though. The evolution vs creationism debate, the gun debate, gay marriage debate. I don't need to watch the news or read the paper to be informed. I can much more easily find unbiased studies on my own on the internet. Cable news is dying too. Every year they lose more young viewers (with Fox losing the most). The internet is where my generation gets its information. There is a reason the average Fox News viewer's age is in the 60s. So do I watch the news or read the paper? No. Of course not. I'm a 21 year old college student. Does that mean I am not informed on what we talk about here? No. Of course not. The internet is a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 It obviously doesn't teach spelling or reading comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Steve used weather instead of whether... but yeah I had typos so you got me. I am not sure what "it" is either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Yep. Speech to text got me. Ooos WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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