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Upward or merely lateral moves?

The Gipper

By The Gipper
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The Gipper Newbie

The Gipper

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Here is an article from Patrick McManamon. It poses an appropriate question:

 

Upgrades, replacement parts or both?

Did the Cleveland Browns take a step forward on the first day of free agency with their three signings, or did they merely bring in replacements for guys who left?

Maybe it depends on point of view.

{C}{C}The Browns lost an inside linebacker and receiver this offseason when they released D'Qwell Jackson and Davone Bess. They lost a safety when T.J. Ward signed with Denver as a free agent.

In free agency, they agreed with an inside linebacker in Karlos Dansby, agreed to an offer sheet with receiver Andrew Hawkins and agreed with safety Donte Whitner.

Out goes one, in comes another.

All the new guys are good players. Whitner and Dansby are aggressive guys who are not afraid to lead. Both are older than the guys they replaced, but both can play. Hawkins is younger than Bess, and (assuming the Bengals do not match the offer) is faster, more explosive and more dependable than Bess, who developed a good case of the dropsies in Cleveland.

Are the Browns better than they were on Tuesday? The team would say yes, that they have added explosive, aggressive players who can make impact plays on defense, in the passing game and on special teams. Too, the players signed -- while not "big-ticket" guys -- are good, dependable players. They are far better than just "guys" who fill the roster. They can play, and that's good.

But the argument can be made that because the Browns lost players at each of the positions, the team merely has filled holes. The players may be better, but it's not like upgrading from a college backup to Tom Brady. The two defensive guys lost contributed to the Browns the past few years. The new guys may be better, but they are better by degrees, not leaps and bounds. Still, by that measurement, the Browns improved. But they won't make significant steps forward until they add players to the mix, not remake the mix.

If the Browns take what they've done and add another good player or two, they will have taken a step forward. The draft awaits, and the Browns have more picks than some teams do in two years.

The first day of free agency was a start. It wasn't merely treading water. But it also wasn't a huge splash. It was a start.

But for a team that has a bunch of false starts the past few years, a start is something.

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The Gipper Newbie

The Gipper

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I see these as yes, lateral moves, but slight upgrades.

I agree that for the Browns to have been improved they need to bring in someone who isn't just replacing someone who left:

 

Perhaps a Golden Tate or Eric Decker or Jacoby Jones at WR.

 

Getting Revis would obviously be that kind of move...or another good CB (Tarell Brown/Captain Munnerlyn/Carlos Rogers?)

 

Bring LaGarret Blount in at RB?

 

An OG? Shelley Smith

 

Or are we just waiting for the draft to "add talent" rather than just replace talent?

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Kosar_For_President Newbie

Kosar_For_President

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It's an improvement just based on the fact that DQJ and Ward clearly weren't happy here. Ward wanted 8m but took a 3.5m paycut to play on a contender. Whitner came home and wants to be here. That speaks volumes.

Also speaks volumes people want to play for our coaches

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gftChris Newbie

gftChris

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Telling, Vapor. Interesting, I got the impression from the reports that Whitner was more of a hard hitting safety, a TJ Ward clone - according to that he's better in coverage? That fits more with what I've read on Pettine's safety preferences, so maybe it's accurate and the media portrayal of him is not.

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gftChris Newbie

gftChris

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Although looking more closely, I'm not sure I can understand the coverage grades:

 

58% comp; 4.6 YAC; 1 TD, 2 INT, 2 PDs - Whitner +10.7

52% comp; 2.8 YAC; 2 TD, 2 INT, 6 PDs - Ward +4.8

 

?? Is it that heavily skewed to TDs? Because Ward is ahead in every other category.

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JAFBF Mentor

JAFBF

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Although looking more closely, I'm not sure I can understand the coverage grades:

 

58% comp; 4.6 YAC; 1 TD, 2 INT, 2 PDs - Whitner +10.7

52% comp; 2.8 YAC; 2 TD, 2 INT, 6 PDs - Ward +4.8

 

?? Is it that heavily skewed to TDs? Because Ward is ahead in every other category.

 

I believe PFF actually grades players on each actual play, not just the stats - they use the game film to come up with their grades.

 

Their grading would likely take into account for how often the player was out of position, faked, had excellent coverage, and so forth.

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gftChris Newbie

gftChris

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I believe PFF actually grades players on each actual play, not just the stats - they use the game film to come up with their grades.

 

Their grading would likely take into account for how often the player was out of position, faked, had excellent coverage, and so forth.

OK, good, that makes more sense, thanks.

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Gips Newbie

Gips

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The browns merely got a tit for a tat on day one nothing more and nothing less..

The big FA splash that as usual never developed for the browns is over and as usual the browns appear to only break even or a bit better on paper..

IMHO Farmer definitely missed some opportunities and has failed to shore up anything thusfar ..

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cambridgeho Rookie

cambridgeho

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I like all the moves. To be honest, I think the best move so far, has been kicking Weeden to the curb. Him not being on the sideline makes us better. His dumb ass grin and his dumb ass back hand throws, are now gone, Fuck Ya!

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gftChris Newbie

gftChris

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How the hell do you like these moves? Are you slow?

 

We released 2 great players and replaced them with decent players that are both 2 years older and underperform comparatively.

 

 

Good moves? WTH moves are you looking at?

Underperform? How so? Whitner has been consistently good for SF, Ward has only reached that level this year. Dansby was superior to Jackson. Yes, older, but not significantly. Factor in that both Jackson and Ward wanted to leave as well. We've basically replaced like for like.

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Cbus Brownie Newbie

Cbus Brownie

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Underperform? How so? Whitner has been consistently good for SF, Ward has only reached that level this year. Dansby was superior to Jackson. Yes, older, but not significantly. Factor in that both Jackson and Ward wanted to leave as well. We've basically replaced like for like.

How was Dansby superior to DQ? DQ had 30+ more tackles and has led this team for the past 5 years. Dansby had his best year last year statistically and wasn't where DQ was numbers wise. Likewise, Ward outperformed Whitner in both total tackles and coverage ratings, and he's older. Please tell how this is an upgrade, I really want to believe without putting on the homer glasses.

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gftChris Newbie

gftChris

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How was Dansby superior to DQ? DQ had 30+ more tackles and has led this team for the past 5 years. Dansby had his best year last year statistically and wasn't where DQ was numbers wise. Likewise, Ward outperformed Whitner in both total tackles and coverage ratings, and he's older. Please tell how this is an upgrade, I really want to believe without putting on the homer glasses.

Jackson had 75 solo tackles to Dansby's 112

Jackson had 1 sack to Dansby's 6

Jackson had 1 pick to Dansby's 4

 

Jackson had more tackles total, yes, but you can see a lot of the tackles he made were assisted - either he needed the help or was giving it. Dansby is more of a game changing impact player at that position.

 

Ward vs Whitner's been done somewhere else on here.

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I think Browns fans had Jackson overrated.

 

He was solid. That's it.

 

Dansby will make more plays, be more of a difference maker on the field.

 

Whitner is as good as Ward ... More of a leader ... Wants to be here.

 

Get over the age. We needed some IMO. Everyone in the NFL is effectively on a 2-3 year deal with the exception of Franchise QBs and left tackles.

 

Z

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Cbus Brownie Newbie

Cbus Brownie

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Everything here other than Hitner wanting to be here is bullshit, douchebag.

 

I think Browns fans had Jackson overrated.

 

He was solid. That's it.

 

Dansby will make more plays, be more of a difference maker on the field.

 

Whitner is as good as Ward ... More of a leader ... Wants to be here.

 

Get over the age. We needed some IMO. Everyone in the NFL is effectively on a 2-3 year deal with the exception of Franchise QBs and left tackles.

 

Z

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miktoxic Newbie

miktoxic

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Everything here other than Hitner wanting to be here is bullshit, douchebag.

 

whoa, charlie. you obviously know shit from from shinola.

 

the browns FO did exactly what they did to fill the holes left by guys that didn't want to be in cleveland.

 

what do you want, aging guys who don't have the spirit to be a browns anymore or sign guys that WANT to play here?

 

you sound like a spoiled piece of shit that has no conscience of what is new and happening in cleveland.

 

if anyone is a douche it's you.

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Cbus Brownie Newbie

Cbus Brownie

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Haha, i dont know what's happening in Cleveland. Good one, dumb fuck.

 

You're a broken record, you jackass. You've been saying the same shit for years.

 

whoa, charlie. you obviously know shit from from shinola.

 

the browns FO did exactly what they did to fill the holes left by guys that didn't want to be in cleveland.

 

what do you want, aging guys who don't have the spirit to be a browns anymore or sign guys that WANT to play here?

 

you sound like a spoiled piece of shit that has no conscience of what is new and happening in cleveland.

 

if anyone is a douche it's you.

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GuNNerGatSKi Rookie

GuNNerGatSKi

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Haha, i dont know what's happening in Cleveland. Good one, dumb fuck.

 

You're a broken record, you jackass. You've been saying the same shit for years.

 

 

Erm I think your the douche Cbus and that's putting it lightly. Either your parents fucked up raising you or you never got your teeth kicked in for talking out of your ass (prob both). I got your back Mik :-)

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GuNNerGatSKi Rookie

GuNNerGatSKi

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Got his back? More like his dick in your mouth faggot..

Your a funny one I'll give you that. Go be a jackass somewhere else. Little immature thirteen year old boys do not belong on the interwebs my friend. Now go back to spanking your pud in mamma's basement before grandpa gummers comes down and offers to suck you off and you begrudgingly accept.

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Everything here other than Hitner wanting to be here is bullshit, douchebag.

 

 

Really?? So Jackson is more of a playmaker than Dansby?

 

Just between me and you ... have you ever really watched a fucking NFL game?

 

Zombo

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