joebialek Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 This issue is the absurdity of absurdities. Let me get this straight: the purpose of the Sin Tax is to gouge those who purchase alcohol and cigarettes not because anyone is trying to discourage consumption but rather so the County can use that money to pay for sports stadiums that do not produce anything but a fleeting moment witnessing the passing of a football, the dribbling of a basketball and the throwing of a baseball so that such a minute tidbit of diversion can be enjoyed by all. The stupidity of this proposition is enough to make your head spin even though the spin doctors advocating passage of this nonsense are already doing a pretty good job of hypnotizing the voters to actually consider supporting it. At least the Robber Barons of the previous centuries provided something tangible such as oil, steel, railroads etcetera. These team owners do not even provide one tangible thing that could ever be considered with the term value added. Almost everyone discusses this enterprise as though it is the same thing as industry {which it is not}. The price of admission is essentially a voluntary tax paid by those who can afford it to pay those who dont need it. If this isnt a transfer of wealth I dont know what is. The real outrage here is the fact that taxes on alcohol and cigarettes will not be used to aid in the reduction of addiction {hence the reference to sin} but rather to stuff the pockets of all three teams who could easily afford to pay for the repairs themselves. The vote was rammed through the last time {under somewhat suspicious circumstances} and hear we go again. But this time...not so fast!!! We the voters of Cuyahoga County are going to fight the proponents on this one and we don't care if the teams up and go somewhere else {please see my views on entertainment below} because quite frankly there are simply more important things than sports and the unearned money that comes with it. Those in public office who are too stupid and lazy to find other ways to grow a major American city need to resign and leave their self-seeking political ambitions on the scrapheap of history. Dont ever let it be said that this was time when the tide ran out on Cuyahoga County but rather was the time when the voters rose up to welcome the rising tide of change and rebuked this pathetic paradigm our previous elected leaders embraced. Let the battle be joined. And now to the real underlying issue at hand: One of the most disturbing facts about our capitalist nation is the misappropriation of funds directed to the salaries of entertainers. Everyone should agree that the value an athlete, movie star, talk-show host, team-owner, etcetera brings to the average citizen is very small. Granted, they do offer a minuscule of diversion from our daily trials and tribulations as did the jesters in the king's court during the middle ages. But to allow these entertainers to horde such great amounts of wealth at the expense of more benevolent societal programs is unacceptable. They do not provide a product or a service so why are they rewarded as such? Our society is also subjected to the "profound wisdom" of these people because it equates wealth with influence. Perhaps a solution to this problem and a alternative to defeated school levies, crumbling infrastructures, as well as all the programs established to help feed, clothe and shelter those who cannot help themselves would be to tax this undeserved wealth. Entertainers could keep 1% of the gross earnings reaped from their endeavor and 99% could be deposited into the public coffers. The old ideas of the redistribution of wealth have failed, and it is time to adapt to modern-day preferences. People put their money into entertainment above everything else; isn't it time to tap that wealth? Does anyone think this will reduce the quality of entertainment? It seems to me that when entertainers received less income, the quality was much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 This was gibberish. I will say I oppose sin taxes but I think entertainers or any other employed person offers a service at a price and the buyer can choose whether or not to buy. I value entertainment pretty high after a long week. I will pay a local band their worth to me if they do their job of helping me unwind after a tough work week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 Quit smoking and drinking and you wont have to worry about it. I don't mind a few cents on my alcohol purchase supporting my Cleveland sports teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 Quit smoking and drinking and you wont have to worry about it. I don't mind a few cents on my alcohol purchase supporting my Cleveland sports teams. You clearly didn't read the guy's thought provoking debate in favor of booze and cigarettes over the benefits of local sports teams haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 I certainly don't think it was gibberish, as a matter of fact thought it was pretty well put together albeit a bit long winded. I also think I understand where you are coming from but I just don't agree with your conclusions. Its always annoying to see, for example, an illiterate thug being paid multiple millions of dollars but keep in mind there aren't many human beings capable of doing his job. For example there is only one heavy weight champion of the world. Does that mean he should be rich beyond our wildest dreams? Who knows. But that's how it goes. Anyway perhaps some other time we could go by point but let me ask you this, if in fact its your intention to debate this. Let's say you get your way and all major and minor league sporting teams move elsewhere. You do realize, don't you, that the revenue is not a zero-sum game correct? But even if it was how much revenue do you think those teams were taking from the community......continued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 ....and if in fact, or hypothetically, you could keep that income (of course you really can't) what would you personally do with it? also, comrade, maybe take a minute and figure out how much of your day is taking up with different forms of entertainment. How much Sports Talk, judge shows, drama comedy political debate et cetera do you watch on television? How many books and movies do you invest in? how many hours a week,, do you do vote to, say, helping the poor? Tutoring children? Chipping in to the neighborhood watch? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 PS fixed a few speech to text glitches.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 The Browns stadium does not benefit from the sin tax. The Q and Progressive field do. That was one of the reason Modell moved the Browns. And if you don't want to pay the tax, you have 3 choices 1. Don't use the products 2. You could leave the county to buy your smokes or beer. The tax is only in Cuyahoga County 3. Vote against it and hope you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 Just to be the devil's advocate you could drive to Lake County visit one of their bars and get popped for a DUI on the way home and spend seven or eight thousand dollars that go into the public coffers. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 You make make your own. Hard cider, wine, beer... you could smoke shredded and dried corn husks.... or, you could switch to root beer and campfires, my preference. I'm tired of property taxes, and taxes in general. The sin tax is just mmgw carbon taxes by another name - making money off fraudulent authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 While we disagree on mmgw, I will say we can likely agree on property taxes. To me, it comes across like you are only renting your property from the government. Quit paying your property taxes and they can come in and take your property from you. It is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 Just to be the devil's advocate you could drive to Lake County visit one of their bars and get popped for a DUI on the way home and spend seven or eight thousand dollars that go into the public coffers. WSS You could drive to Lorain county, buy your beer and smokes at the local store, drive home, and drink and smoke at home all you want. No sin tax paid and no DUI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewy Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 Pro athletes, TV personalities, movie stars, that earn millions contribute very little to the wellfare of their fellow man other than to provide entertaiment, which would be next to dead last in a list comprised of the most important needs for our general wellfare....food, shelter of course would be #1. Not that there is no work or training invoved, but a pro athlete is born with the physical tools, he didn't earn them. Tell me all you want to follow my heart and seek out my dreams, I can never be a pro basketball player. Having said that, I cannot be a hypocrite. I cannot fault anyone able to get what they can get if I support a capitalist system. Democrats and liberals are hypocrites...the same liberals that bash CEO's of corporations for making millions, will the very next day strategize on whether or not the Indians should pay Masterson $17 million. One is responsible for the survival of a business, jobs...the other responsible for throwing a baseball. In a boring sport to boot. Go figure. Just waiting for one asshole liberal to tell me that Lebron James, or Oprah should re-distribute their wealth. Will never happen. Capitalism is not perfect. Some will stilI be miserable. But there is no better system in existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 Go to tell a professional athlete he didn't earn it. I'd like to see how that goes over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 One of the most disturbing facts about our capitalist nation is themisappropriation of funds directed to the salaries of entertainers. Everyoneshould agree that the value an athlete, movie star, talk-show host,team-owner, etcetera brings to the average citizen is very small. Granted,they do offer a minuscule of diversion from our daily trials andtribulations as did the jesters in the king's court during the middle ages.But to allow these entertainers to horde such great amounts of wealth at theexpense of more benevolent societal programs is unacceptable. They do notprovide a product or a service so why are they rewarded as such? Gosh, these arguments just seem to ignore the concept of supply and demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebialek Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 sell the stadiums to the highest bidder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Just pay the damn tax if you want to use the products. How much does the sin tax add to a quart of beer? Three-four cents? Ten? Consumption taxes don't bother me all that much. Things like income tax or inheritance taxes bother me greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 so I'm curious, Joe, if you are that adamant about running the sports teams out of town and giving that non existent windfall to the poor or something, what the fuck brought you to the Browns board in the first place? also do I assume that your first long winded post was cut and paste and the second one about sell the stadium is your own natural voice? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 so I'm curious, Joe, if you are that adamant about running the sports teams out of town and giving that non existent windfall to the poor or something, what the fuck brought you to the Browns board in the first place? also do I assume that your first long winded post was cut and paste and the second one about sell the stadium is your own natural voice? WSS I have this feeling as well. The alignment of the text of the first post makes it look like he copied it directly from a website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 He also posted the same thing in Barfing Hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 He also posted the same thing in Barfing Hard. I just copied and pasted the first paragraph into google, and he's posted it all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 sell the stadiums to the highest bidder Nobody will bid on them if there isn't a Pro sports team playing in them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebialek Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 vote no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 vote noOK Joe.We will certainly do that. Then we can change the message board. Hey when we run the Browns out of town do you have any ideas for the new name of the board? How about the Food Stamp board? Or maybe the public housing board? I wonder if there will be a place on the ballot to vote blow me Joe? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebialek Posted April 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Bialow me. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Here is the breakdown of the sin tax cost on alcohol and smokes........ 4.5 cents per pack of cigarettes, 1.5 cents per 12-ounce bottle of beer, 6 cents per 750-milliliter bottle of wine, 32 cents per gallon of mixed beverages, 24 cents per gallon of cider and $3 per gallon of hard liquor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Cleveland can ill afford to stop the progress it is making with the new convention center, etc. A few cents isn't going to break the people who pay. Most of the complainers are probably on Obama phones and EBT cards, and don't vote anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Wait? They don't vote? I thought they were the only reason Obama won? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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