Anti-Semite, anti-Israel ObaMao goes all out with the PLO

[Taco918]

I don't post much here for a reason, but I have time to kill so why not.

 

First off, if you have a problem with foreign aid, I would ask you to study up on 20th century history (WWI and WWII specifically.) I'll give you the jist of it for those who don't care to learn, foreign aid is given out to keep some semblance of order to those nations who can't afford to keep peace and order within their own boarders, obviously with some exceptions (Israel being chief among them, in my book at least.) Paying for foreign aid is much, much cheaper than military intervention, in both money and American lives. The United States of America has created a balance within the world which has allowed it to become a global economy, in which we are head honcho, as it should be.

 

The petty confrontations that mark the world are both bound to happen and are ultimately okay (within our world view) as long as they don't cause a large amount of duress to our political system (responsible for most of our wars or police actions since WWII) or the current economic system (hence the major problem with Iran threatening to close the strait of Hormuz few years back.)

 

As far as Israel goes, they are nothing more than a military entrance point to the middle east for us at this point as they have proven they are far from a true ally. They believe themselves a legitimate state when they are really a modern day satellite state. They survive only due to the technological advances we have shared with them and our own military backing of them. The day we revoke our protection (which probably won't happen within my lifetime if only for the military advantage it gives us) is the day the Islamic world invades the Holy Land.

 

The fact that they do not do as we say is a much bigger slap in the face than Hamas could ever do. Hamas truly isn't, hasn't, nor is possible of causing the USA any damage, along with any other two bit Islamisist extremist group within the region currently. (I know some of you will say, but what about ISIS? Even fucking Iran hates those despicable pieces of shit. Iran may have different motives but that's one fight I'll gladly work with the enemy for.)

 

Backing the PLA is a purely political move to prove to Israel that need to obey the hand that feeds them.

 

As for my personal opinion, the fact that so many Americans (I won't go into their political affiliation) blindly support Israel is frightening. This is a nation that has a national religion (counter to our belief in freedom of religion (in the Holy Land of all places)), is a foreign policy nightmare, receives foreign aid, and doesn't abide to its protector's commands.

 

 

It amazes me that so many "patriot's" get pissed off if the current administration even so much at hints at slighting a rogue nation, a nation that only exist due to our protection, a nation that causes our own nation so much grief.

 

The best example I can give is having a child. We (USA) gave birth to it (Israel), nurtured it though it's weak infantile stage, taught it lessons to survive but now it's a teenager who's selling weed out of our basement. We've caught them red handed and scolded them but they keep on keeping on. We see one of their classmates (Hamas) who used to sell weed with them but they've matured and are trying to become an adult while our own kid is still being a little bastard. What do we do? We bring up in passing how their past weed selling competitor is getting their shit straight and subtly hint that maybe they should do the same (aka acknowledging the PLA.)

 

So what would you do as a parent? Take your child bitching at you for thinking less of them while getting laughed at and humiliated (foreign policy) or possibly punched for allowing your kid to sell to underage kids (aka extremist)? Or put them in their motherfucking place and force them on the right path whether they like it or not, knowing it will be in the best interest of both them and yourself?

[Osiris]

I don't post much here for a reason, but I have time to kill so why not.

First off, if you have a problem with foreign aid, I would ask you to study up on 20th century history (WWI and WWII specifically.) I'll give you the jist of it for those who don't care to learn, foreign aid is given out to keep some semblance of order to those nations who can't afford to keep peace and order within their own boarders, obviously with some exceptions (Israel being chief among them, in my book at least.) Paying for foreign aid is much, much cheaper than military intervention, in both money and American lives. The United States of America has created a balance within the world which has allowed it to become a global economy, in which we are head honcho, as it should be.

The petty confrontations that mark the world are both bound to happen and are ultimately okay (within our world view) as long as they don't cause a large amount of duress to our political system (responsible for most of our wars or police actions since WWII) or the current economic system (hence the major problem with Iran threatening to close the strait of Hormuz few years back.)

As far as Israel goes, they are nothing more than a military entrance point to the middle east for us at this point as they have proven they are far from a true ally. They believe themselves a legitimate state when they are really a modern day satellite state. They survive only due to the technological advances we have shared with them and our own military backing of them. The day we revoke our protection (which probably won't happen within my lifetime if only for the military advantage it gives us) is the day the Islamic world invades the Holy Land.

The fact that they do not do as we say is a much bigger slap in the face than Hamas could ever do. Hamas truly isn't, hasn't, nor is possible of causing the USA any damage, along with any other two bit Islamisist extremist group within the region currently. (I know some of you will say, but what about ISIS? Even fucking Iran hates those despicable pieces of shit. Iran may have different motives but that's one fight I'll gladly work with the enemy for.)

Backing the PLA is a purely political move to prove to Israel that need to obey the hand that feeds them.

As for my personal opinion, the fact that so many Americans (I won't go into their political affiliation) blindly support Israel is frightening. This is a nation that has a national religion (counter to our belief in freedom of religion (in the Holy Land of all places)), is a foreign policy nightmare, receives foreign aid, and doesn't abide to its protector's commands.

It amazes me that so many "patriot's" get pissed off if the current administration even so much at hints at slighting a rogue nation, a nation that only exist due to our protection, a nation that causes our own nation so much grief.

The best example I can give is having a child. We (USA) gave birth to it (Israel), nurtured it though it's weak infantile stage, taught it lessons to survive but now it's a teenager who's selling weed out of our basement. We've caught them red handed and scolded them but they keep on keeping on. We see one of their classmates (Hamas) who used to sell weed with them but they've matured and are trying to become an adult while our own kid is still being a little bastard. What do we do? We bring up in passing how their past weed selling competitor is getting their shit straight and subtly hint that maybe they should do the same (aka acknowledging the PLA.)

So what would you do as a parent? Take your child bitching at you for thinking less of them while getting laughed at and humiliated (foreign policy) or possibly punched for allowing your kid to sell to underage kids (aka extremist)? Or put them in their motherfucking place and force them on the right path whether they like it or not, knowing it will be in the best interest of both them and yourself?

Excellent post Taco. Regarding the foriegn aid, I don't think anyone was arguing that it is unimportant or that we should completely eliminate it. What I'm arguing for is a rebalancing of our budgetary priorities. IMO we spend way too much money on the military, especially through uneccesary interventions, as well on foriegn aid that has questionable political returns (let's not kid ourselves that all our foriegn aid is purely altruistic in nature). In fact much of our foriegn aid could be having the opposite effect. The example I am most familiar with is Egypt, which gets billions in aid that is spent on the military. So when the revolution happened there and the police tried to suppress it, guess what all the protestors read on the tear gas canisters? "Made in the USA." So yes, I think we need to spend our money differently. After all, what good is a semblance of order abroad if we are on the path of failure at home?

 

I agree with you 100% on Israel, and have often used the child/parent analogy to describe the relationship (though technically I think the Brits 'gave birth' to this child through the Balfour Declaration, and at some point we adopted the child). They spy on the USA with abandon, try to steal our trade secrets and technology. Their words and actions contradict each other. They tell us they want peace, then they build more settlements. On top of it all, their lobbies have managed to manipulate public opinion so much that anyone who points any of this out will be called an anti-Semite.

[calfoxwc]

Taco, you had a brillian post going there, til you dumped on Israel. Israel

was created via the UN, after WWII. The plan was to also provide a state

to the "palestinians", but they refused to have a state next to Jewish people.

 

So, they still don't have one. That's the more recent "ancient" history. Israel is

a great ally, but the psychotic type of hate for Jews goes back to ancient history,

when Jewish tribes refused to change to the Muslim faith.

 

Guess who "taught" the nazis to use Jews as a hate object ?

 

How many groups and countries want to "wipe Israel" off the face of the earth?

Murder them all? Blow innocent Israelies up with terrorist bombs?

 

Israel has to do as THIS WH says? You surely are kidding. If Israel obeyed Obamao and factions,

they'd leave Israel, and march into the ocean and start swimming to the arctic.

 

I find it strange, that Israel "must obey us", and be subservient, when every other country

has a right to make it's own decisions and be independent and "we shouldn't impose our will upon them."

 

Who is it that decided that Jewish people were not allowed to act like a soveriegn state?

 

Seems to me, that Israel is NO "child", but rather, a friend who, others in school, bully,

and you won't desert your friend. The way you put it, Taco, Israel is a close friend that

you take for granted, and would laugh if he was beaten into the dirt and knifed..

 

Actually, the British gov did NOT want the creation of a Jewish state, And, the UN considered

the creation of both Israel and an Arab state, sharing Palestine, and not only the Arab leaders

refused, but America and Britain weren't keen on it either...they didn't want to alienate

their *oil suppliers*.

 

Finally, we spy on our friends, too, Taco. All of them. Israel has plenty of enemies here, too.

Even in our own WH.

 

My biggest concern, is the complaining about Israel, and those people don't even mention

the hideous, sick terrorist acts by Arabs/Muslims against them.

 

No country on earth "does as we say". Israel should do as

OBAMAO says? Sounds like "Jews should be our slaves, and everybody else is allowed to be free" or something.

 

I suspect that the left's hostility toward Israel reeks of "if we can't get oil from you, you cost us aid,

we hate you" kind of thing. I don't get it.

 

You did start well, Knock out the anti-Israel weird rationalization hate thing, and

it would get a passing grade.

[LogicIsForSquares]

I don't think we should be giving aid to any other country, Israel or otherwise. We are borrowing money left and right but somehow have money to throw around to other countries.

[Westside Steve]

there are consequences to losing elections as well as losing six days wars.

WSS

[Osiris]

there are consequences to losing elections as well as losing six days wars.

WSS

There are also consequences to ethnically cleansing 720,000 people from their homeland.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

In his review of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, New Historian Benny Morris writes: "At best, Ilan Pappe must be one of the world's sloppiest historians; at worst, one of the most dishonest. In truth, he probably merits a place somewhere between the two."^[3] Adding that "Such distortions, large and small, characterize almost every page of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine."^[3]

Ian Black, The Guardian's Middle East editor writes,^[4] "Emphasis apart, it is hard to say what is new in his account." He calls the book "a catalogue of intimidation, expulsion and atrocity", and notes that Pappé "does historical understanding a disservice by all but ignoring the mood and motives of the Jews, so soon after the end of a war in which six million had been exterminated by the Nazis".

He fights the "power of deletion" over the fate of the Palestinians. But he does historical understanding a disservice by all but ignoring the mood and motives of the Jews, so soon after the end of a war in which six million had been exterminated by the Nazis. Ben-Gurion's public rhetoric about the dangers of annihilation or a second Holocaust, Pappé argues, was matched by private confidence about the outcome of an unequal fight. That does not mean the shadow of the Holocaust can be airbrushed out of the story. The Jews were fighting, as they saw it, with their backs to the wall, for survival. To ignore that perception—a huge factor in western sympathy for Israel in 1948 and for so long afterwards—is to misrepresent reality.

[Westside Steve]

 

In his review of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, New Historian Benny Morris writes: "At best, Ilan Pappe must be one of the world's sloppiest historians; at worst, one of the most dishonest. In truth, he probably merits a place somewhere between the two."^[3] Adding that "Such distortions, large and small, characterize almost every page of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine."^[3]

Ian Black, The Guardian's Middle East editor writes,^[4] "Emphasis apart, it is hard to say what is new in his account." He calls the book "a catalogue of intimidation, expulsion and atrocity", and notes that Pappé "does historical understanding a disservice by all but ignoring the mood and motives of the Jews, so soon after the end of a war in which six million had been exterminated by the Nazis".

He fights the "power of deletion" over the fate of the Palestinians. But he does historical understanding a disservice by all but ignoring the mood and motives of the Jews, so soon after the end of a war in which six million had been exterminated by the Nazis. Ben-Gurion's public rhetoric about the dangers of annihilation or a second Holocaust, Pappé argues, was matched by private confidence about the outcome of an unequal fight. That does not mean the shadow of the Holocaust can be airbrushed out of the story. The Jews were fighting, as they saw it, with their backs to the wall, for survival. To ignore that perceptiona huge factor in western sympathy for Israel in 1948 and for so long afterwardsis to misrepresent reality.

 

in case you blocked the article.

 

I would imagine that the ethnic cleansing nearly a million people is a steep charge.

WSS

[Osiris]

"He fights the "power of deletion" over the fate of the Palestinians. But he does historical understanding a disservice by all but ignoring the mood and motives of the Jews, so soon after the end of a war in which six million had been exterminated by the Nazis. Ben-Gurion's public rhetoric about the dangers of annihilation or a second Holocaust, Pappé argues, was matched by private confidence about the outcome of an unequal fight. That does not mean the shadow of the Holocaust can be airbrushed out of the story. The Jews were fighting, as they saw it, with their backs to the wall, for survival. To ignore that perceptiona huge factor in western sympathy for Israel in 1948 and for so long afterwardsis to misrepresent reality."

 

Wow, I'm shocked that a pro-Israel historian would describe Pappe as sloppy. Regarding the second quote, it appears to argue that basically, having suffered terribly in the Holocaust, that somehow justified the cleansing of Palestine of Palestinians? Ben Guiron felt as much when he said he saw nothing unethical about it. Apparently Benny Morris feels the same way.

[calfoxwc]

There were no 720,000 expulsed from Israel.

 

Less than 200,000 were, more like...170,000.

 

It was also marked by hostilities against Jews

by Palestinian activists/terrorists, and reprisals

by Israelis. Many left, out of hate and bigotry,

refusing to live in the same state as Jews.

 

Israel tried to let the ones who left Israel itself,

to come back...

 

but they refused. Palestinians were their

own worst self-destructive enemy.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Of course a Muslim from Egypt who is pro Palestinian would say this garbage.

[Osiris]

There were no 720,000 expulsed from Israel.

 

Less than 200,000 were, more like...170,000.

 

It was also marked by hostilities against Jews

by Palestinian activists/terrorists, and reprisals

by Israelis. Many left, out of hate and bigotry,

refusing to live in the same state as Jews.

 

Israel tried to let the ones who left Israel itself,

to come back...

 

but they refused. Palestinians were their

own worst self-destructive enemy.

Aww Cal it looks like our agreeable phase has ended. Honeymoons over. We'll always have taxes!

 

Aside from the 750,000 number cited by Pappe, two different United Nations reports the placed the number at 726,000 and 711,000 respectively. And yes, when you try to expel people from their homes they will be apt to have a violent reaction. Calling it terrorism is some pretty creative thinking there.

[calfoxwc]

Okay, first, some history:

**********************************

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

Background

Main article: Sectarian conflict in Mandatory Palestine

The Israeli–Palestinian conflict has its roots in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, with the birth of major nationalist movements among the Jews and among the Arabs, both geared towards attaining sovereignty for their people in the Middle East.[14] The collision between those two forces in southern Levant and the emergence of Palestinian nationalism in the 1920s eventually escalated into the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 1947, and expanded into the wider Arab-Israeli conflict later on.[15]

With the outcome of the First World War, the relations between Zionism and the Arab national movement seemed to be potentially friendly, and the Faisal–Weizmann Agreement created a framework for both aspirations to coexist on former Ottoman Empire's territories. However, with the defeat and dissolution of the Arab Kingdom of Syria in July 1920 following the Franco-Syrian War, a crisis fell upon the Damascus-based Arab national movement. The return of several hard-line Palestinian Arab nationalists, under the emerging leadership of Haj Amin al-Husseini, from Damascus to Mandatory Palestine marked the beginning of Palestinian Arab nationalist struggle towards establishment of a national home for Arabs of Palestine.[16] Amin al-Husseini, the architect of the Palestinian Arab national movement, immediately marked Jewish national movement and Jewish immigration to Palestine as the sole enemy to his cause,[17] initiating large-scale riots against the Jews as early as 1920 in Jerusalem and in 1921 in Jaffa. Among the results of the violence was the establishment of Jewish paramilitary force of Haganah. In 1929, a series of violent anti-Jewish riots was initiated by the Arab leadership. The riots resulted in massive Jewish casualties in Hebron and Safed, and the evacuation of Jews from Hebron and Gaza.[14]

The Arab revolt of 1936–39 in Palestine, motivated by opposition to mass Jewish immigration.

In the early 1930s, the Arab national struggle in Palestine had drawn many Arab nationalist militants from across the Middle East, most notably Sheikh Izaddin al-Qassam from Syria, who established the Black Hand militant group and had prepared the grounds for the 1936 Arab revolt. Following, the death of al-Qassam at the hands of the British in late 1935, the tensions erupted in 1936 into the Arab general strike and general boycott. The strike soon deteriorated into violence and the bloody revolt against the British and the Jews.[15] In the first wave of organized violence, lasting until early 1937, much of the Arab gangs were defeated by the British and a forced expulsion of much of the Arab leadership was performed. The revolt led to the establishment of the Peel Commission towards partitioning of Palestine, though was subsequently rejected by the Palestinian Arabs. The two main Jewish leaders, Chaim Weizmann and David Ben-Gurion, accepted the recommendations but some secondary Jewish leaders did not like it.[18][19][20]

The renewed violence, which had sporadically lasted until the beginning of WWII, ended with around 5,000 casualties, mostly from the Arab side. With the eruption of World War II, the situation in Mandatory Palestine calmed down. It allowed a shift towards more a moderate stance among Palestinian Arabs, under the leadership of the Nashashibi clan and even the establishment of the Jewish–Arab Palestine Regiment under British command, fighting Germans in North Africa. The more radical exiled faction of al-Husseini however tended to cooperation with Nazi Germany, and participated in the establishment of pro-Nazi propaganda machine throughout the Arab world. Defeat of Arab nationalists in Iraq and subsequent relocation of al-Husseini to Nazi-occupied Europe tied his hands regarding field operations in Palestine, though he regularly demanded the Italians and the Germans to bomb Tel Aviv. By the end of World War II, a crisis over the fate of the Holocaust survivors from Europe led to renewed tensions between the Yishuv and the Palestinian Arab leadership. Immigration quotas were established by the British, while on the other hand illegal immigration and Zionist insurgency against the British was increasing.[14]

Land in the lighter shade represents territory within the borders of Israel at the conclusion of the 1948 war. This land is internationally recognized as belonging to Israel.

On 29 November 1947, the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted Resolution 181(II)[21] recommending the adoption and implementation of a plan to partition Palestine into an Arab state, a Jewish state and the City of Jerusalem.[22] On the next day, Palestine was already swept by violence, with Arab and Jewish militias executing attacks. For four months, under continuous Arab provocation and attack, the Yishuv was usually on the defensive while occasionally retaliating.[23] The Arab League supported the Arab struggle by forming the volunteer based Arab Liberation Army, supporting the Palestinian Arab Army of the Holy War, under the leadership of Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni and Hasan Salama. On the Jewish side, the civil war was managed by the major underground militias – the Haganah, Irgun and Lehi, strengthened by numerous Jewish veterans of World War II and foreign volunteers. By spring 1948, it was already clear that the Arab forces were nearing a total collapse, while Yishuv forces gained more and more territory, creating a large scale refugee problem of Palestinian Arabs.[14] Popular support for the Palestinian Arabs throughout the Arab world led to sporadic violence against Jewish communities of Middle East and North Africa, creating an opposite refugee wave.

[calfoxwc]

So, 1. Jews ended up being expulsed from Palestine by hatefilled Palestinians early on.

 

2. There is the extreme palestinian/arabic connection to the nazi party.

[calfoxwc]

More history:

*********************

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

The history of the Palestinian exodus is closely tied to the events of the war in Palestine, which lasted from 1947 to 1949, and to the political events preceding it. In September 1949, the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine estimated 711,000 Palestinian refugees existed outside Israel,[25] with about one-quarter of the estimated 160,000 Palestinian Arabs remaining in Israel as "internal refugees".

The Palestinians say they were evicted at bayonet-point and by panic deliberately incited by the Zionists.[26]

Efraim Karsh believes that the Israeli government never took such a "simplistic, single-cause viewpoint".[27] Walid Khalidi[28][29] and Ilan Pappé say that the expulsion was based on a deliberate policy.[30] Based on the protocols of Israel's cabinet meetings, the Haganah Archive in Tel Aviv, and the IDF and Israel Defense Ministry Archive in Givatayim,[31] a number of historians have concluded that around half the Palestinians who became refugees were evicted by the Israeli army but this was not an organized policy.[10]:5–7:38–64:462–587[32]

[calfoxwc]

So, it wasn't the Israeli army that evicted the 720,000 Palestinians,

it was the war in Palestine and that area.

 

Now, according to this, the number is even lower, 160.000 IN ISRAEL,

who were evicted from their homes, etc, by different commanders

in the Israeli army, but allegedly not an across the board policy

from high command.

 

Note: many refused to live in the same country, and refused to have

a country next to Israel, and they flat out refused a divided Jerusalem,

and many Israelis didn't like that idea either.

[calfoxwc]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_State

In 1947, the United Nations proposed the partition of Mandate Palestine into an Arab state, a Jewish state, and a Corpus Separatum for Jerusalem. The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a resolution adopted on 29 November 1947 by the General Assembly of the United Nations. Its title was United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) Future Government of Palestine. The resolution noted Britain's planned termination of the British Mandate for Palestine and recommended the partition of Palestine into two states, one Arab and one Jewish, with the Jerusalem-Bethlehem area being under special international protection, administered by the United Nations. The resolution included a highly detailed description of the recommended boundaries for each proposed state.[50] The resolution also contained a plan for an economic union between the proposed states, and a plan for the protection of religious and minority rights. The resolution sought to address the conflicting objectives and claims to the Mandate territory of two competing nationalist movements, Zionism (Jewish nationalism) and Arab nationalism, as well as to resolve the plight of Jews displaced as a result of the Holocaust. The resolution called for the withdrawal of British forces and termination of the Mandate by 1 August 1948, and establishment of the new independent states by 1 October 1948.

The Partition Plan was accepted by the Jewish leadership, but rejected by the Arab leaders. The Arab League threatened to take military measures to prevent the partition of Palestine and to ensure the national rights of the Palestinian Arab population. On 14 May 1948, the chairman of the Jewish Agency for Palestine,[51] declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel.[52] U.S. President Harry Truman recognised the State of Israel de facto the the following day. The Arab countries declared war on the newly formed State of Israel heralding the start of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. On 12 April 1948, the Arab League announced:

[calfoxwc]

In conclusion, the UN designed and created a state for the Jews, displaced by WWII, culminating with

the genocide of the Jewish people, and a state for the Palestinians, the Arabic people displaced

also, by WWII.

 

But the Palestinians refused to have their own state, out of hate for the Jews. And, they went to war

to destroy Israel instead.

 

but, they lost. then later, they did it again, and got stomped, and lost territory.

 

The "Palsetinians" refusal to peacefully have their own country was not Israel's fault.

 

Now, several arabic countries went after Israel, to destroy it. They lost badly.

Israel just wanted to live in peace, but those countries didn't want Israel to exist.

Again, they were their own worst enemy. They initiated a land war, with the Palestinians

creating terror inside Israel. After the land war wrongfully initiated against Israel,

Israel won the war.

 

Instead of destroying Israel, they lost territories. Sure, Israel now owned those territories,

controlled them, and let Israeli settlers settle there.

 

When the left says that Israel is destroying the peace process by building settlements?

Come on. That is disturbing it's so outlandish. There is a high price to pay for declaring

war on a country to destroy it, then losing. It's called repercussions. Consequences.

Israel even gave back the Gaza strip for peace. That backfired. No "giving back" has

worked for peace at all.

It is sad to see people get it backwards on who is to blame for the Palestinians not having their own country.