Mr. Make-Believe Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 ... I'm curious. How did Brandon Weeden beat out Brian Hoyer for the starting job to start the year? I ask this, because it appears the buzz so far has been about how good and poised Hoyer is and how quickly he gets the ball out of his hands, etc. If he was this good last year (one would assume at least this much, seeing as though he was healthy), Weeden must have been... better? It could be a couple of things, I would guess... The first being that Weeden looks appreciably better in practice than he does during games. Totally valid and something I could see happening. The second being what I'm afraid of. And that's that this feeling of optimism is only somewhat justified. That Hoyer's effectiveness in these mini-camps is being overstated. I know I've felt a sense of "this is going to be the year we see real improvement" pretty much every year with this team around this time. I'm a half-full kinda cat. I love this team and want to believe that it will do well. This year feels different than those. More along the lines of understanding that the Browns are better, rather than merely telling myself that they are. Am I a fool though? Is this perennial empty positivity a shared delusion among Browns fans and is this year ACTUALLY reasonably better than the past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Because our former coach Chump decided to go with Homies hand picked guy rather than start the better player. That's probably a big reason why Haslam kicked Chump and the rest of those losers to the curb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 ding fries are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibleedbrown Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Going into the season it was supposed to be an open QB competition. Again. But the main 2 participants were Weeden and Jason Campbell. Weeden was the number 1 pick from yesteryear, but didn't have a particularly good season the year before. Weeden had a good preseason game or 2, and the thought at the time was that he seemed to play well with the pressure of all eyes on him within this competition, so he must have the stuff for the job, right? Plus he does have a strong arm. Hoyer at that point was a career back up, and at that time wasn't really in consideration for the job. Or if he was it was a long shot, and he obviously didn't get the nod at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 ... the main 2 participants were Weeden and Jason Campbell. That's a key point for TC. But have to also remember that Hoyer leap-frogged Campbell to get the MN start. Wheezy was another form of QB fools-gold. He had the size and the arm, and unfortunately little more. I ask this, because it appears the buzz so far has been about how good and poised Hoyer is and how quickly he gets the ball out of his hands, etc. ...what I'm afraid of (is)... that this feeling of optimism is only somewhat justified. That Hoyer's effectiveness in these mini-camps is being overstated. This year feels different than those. More along the lines of understanding that the Browns are better, rather than merely telling myself that they are. Am I a fool though? Is this perennial empty positivity a shared delusion among Browns fans and is this year ACTUALLY reasonably better than the past? If you're a fool to be optimistic about this team, then at least you have a lot of company around here. While there are few pessimists, we are primarily optimists to varying degrees. I put myself around the middle of the latter pack. Hoyer is only partly responsible for my optimism. Other than Brian's rehab going very well, my optimism has little to do with his camp performance to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vers Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Hoyer was a late sign. He was brought in to be the 3rd QB. Weeden was a former first round pick and they almost had to give him a shot to prove himself---one way or another. I hated Weeden and argued w/the majority that said he would improve in Norv's offense. I maintained that he couldn't read defenses and especially coverages, thus he would suck no matter what the offense was. But, I understood why they had to give him a shot. I do think Hoyer caught the eye of the coaching staff and FO early on. He was efficient in camps and practices and that is why he vaulted past Campbell once Weeden was injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hish747 Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 ... I'm curious. How did Brandon Weeden beat out Brian Hoyer for the starting job to start the year? I ask this, because it appears the buzz so far has been about how good and poised Hoyer is and how quickly he gets the ball out of his hands, etc. If he was this good last year (one would assume at least this much, seeing as though he was healthy), Weeden must have been... better? It could be a couple of things, I would guess... The first being that Weeden looks appreciably better in practice than he does during games. Totally valid and something I could see happening. The second being what I'm afraid of. And that's that this feeling of optimism is only somewhat justified. That Hoyer's effectiveness in these mini-camps is being overstated. I know I've felt a sense of "this is going to be the year we see real improvement" pretty much every year with this team around this time. I'm a half-full kinda cat. I love this team and want to believe that it will do well. This year feels different than those. More along the lines of understanding that the Browns are better, rather than merely telling myself that they are. Am I a fool though? Is this perennial empty positivity a shared delusion among Browns fans and is this year ACTUALLY reasonably better than the past? Actually, I think Weeden was better than Hoyer in camp and preseason. Here are the stats from the 2013 preseason. Weeden 30 for 50 (60%) 3 TD 0 INT 99.9 QB Rating Hoyer 37 for 60 (66.6%) 2 TD 3 INT 79.2 QB Rating Also, in preseason Weeden didn't have that much pressure. When pressured, as happens in real life, Weeden completely fell apart. He seemed almost slow witted at times. An example of this is one time when I saw him wind up, a defender put his hand up, Weeden appeared to have time to adjust and still threw the ball right into the defender's hand. Not to mention what happened with his shovel pass and lob. I like Hoyer and think he probably put in a lot of work in the off season to get smarter and stronger up top. While I liked the excitement that Hoyer brought last year, I'm not one of those who were super impressed with what he did. That said, this year's optimism isn't mainly based on Hoyer. I think it's defense, running game and the potential for an interesting passing game using more TE, RB and mobility at QB. Also, there's a lot of hope with the coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 This as specifically discussed on CBD a while back. Last year Weeden outplayed Hoyer in preseason games, but more importantly Vic Carruci pointed out that Hoyer practiced very poorly in preseason last year. With a few starts under his belt, bolstered confidence, and time to build chemistry with his teammates, Hoyer is a much better QB this year than he was last year at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDawg31 Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 ... I'm curious. How did Brandon Weeden beat out Brian Hoyer for the starting job to start the year? I ask this, because it appears the buzz so far has been about how good and poised Hoyer is and how quickly he gets the ball out of his hands, etc. If he was this good last year (one would assume at least this much, seeing as though he was healthy), Weeden must have been... better? It could be a couple of things, I would guess... The first being that Weeden looks appreciably better in practice than he does during games. Totally valid and something I could see happening. The second being what I'm afraid of. And that's that this feeling of optimism is only somewhat justified. That Hoyer's effectiveness in these mini-camps is being overstated. I know I've felt a sense of "this is going to be the year we see real improvement" pretty much every year with this team around this time. I'm a half-full kinda cat. I love this team and want to believe that it will do well. This year feels different than those. More along the lines of understanding that the Browns are better, rather than merely telling myself that they are. Am I a fool though? Is this perennial empty positivity a shared delusion among Browns fans and is this year ACTUALLY reasonably better than the past? you have to go back to the day he was drafted, our moronic coach named him the starter the day he was drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDawg31 Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Actually, I think Weeden was better than Hoyer in camp and preseason. Here are the stats from the 2013 preseason. Weeden 30 for 50 (60%) 3 TD 0 INT 99.9 QB Rating Hoyer 37 for 60 (66.6%) 2 TD 3 INT 79.2 QB Rating Also, in preseason Weeden didn't have that much pressure. When pressured, as happens in real life, Weeden completely fell apart. He seemed almost slow witted at times. An example of this is one time when I saw him wind up, a defender put his hand up, Weeden appeared to have time to adjust and still threw the ball right into the defender's hand. Not to mention what happened with his shovel pass and lob. I like Hoyer and think he probably put in a lot of work in the off season to get smarter and stronger up top. While I liked the excitement that Hoyer brought last year, I'm not one of those who were super impressed with what he did. That said, this year's optimism isn't mainly based on Hoyer. I think it's defense, running game and the potential for an interesting passing game using more TE, RB and mobility at QB. Also, there's a lot of hope with the coaching staff. I believe it's impossible to evaluate a QB based on stats in the preseason. A smart coaching staff should be able to determine the best QB based on what they see in their own building. Weeden looked like Johnny Unitas in the preseason until that 3rd PS game then the real Weeden was exposed. Hoyer and JFF will look like Unitas this preseason as will most PS QB's. Hoyer is on the verge of becoming a very good starting QB in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Make-Believe Posted June 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 I never meant to imply that Hoyer is the primary reason I'm feeling so good about this team, so I apologize for that. It's really a combination of many excellent things. Was using Hoyer as an example of how I feared I may be mistaken and concerned that my optimism may yet again be faulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 every year around this time and before the first snap in preseason we all feel confident and optimistic. i say i feel more confident this year because i believe in the FO and coaches ten-fold over what we had since the mangini FU by holmgren. we'll see how it plays out by halloween. either the browns are in contention and looking strong or we are on here discussing who they're going to draft next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkid3 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I felt it as Weeden last chance. No excuses type thing. He failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 you have to go back to the day he was drafted, our moronic coach named him the starter the day he was drafted. You don't draft a 29 year old QB with the expectation he's going to sit and learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Make-Believe Posted June 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 You don't draft a 29 year old QB Edited out the superfluous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml1138 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I'm excited about the year (as we are every year) but it's because of the organization as a whole. The FO, the coaches, the bolstered defense and offense. And I mean truly bolstered with some good FA signings and draft picks. I'm not really that excited (w/confidence) about Hoyer yet because we just don't know. QB is still the biggest "IF" in the system. It's just been the largest eyesore for the Browns in the last 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I never meant to imply that Hoyer is the primary reason I'm feeling so good about this team, so I apologize for that. It's really a combination of many excellent things. Was using Hoyer as an example of how I feared I may be mistaken and concerned that my optimism may yet again be faulty. haha - youre a Browns fan where optimism meets reality a week after Labor day. Then it either waxes or wanes from there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I'm not convinced yet that Hoyer will perform as well as pre-injury. He has taken no shots and is not even in 11 on 11 drills yet. If you ever had a knee injury, then you know how tentative it feels when you first come back to play for real. It often involves favoring that leg too much and stressing the other too much, both of which can throw a game off kilter just enough to be ineffective. Just a fact of a major knee injury, not to downplay the player in any way. He appeared to be the right guy before he was hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 The reason Weeden won the QB competition in preseason last year is two fold: A. He had the edge because he was the Browns first round draft pick. And his competition were a couple of vagabond veterans who had been all over the league and cut from several teams...and B. He killed it in preseason. He looked and played outstanding. He was sharp, accurate, instinctual, showed his arm strength and confident. But of that blew up however when the real bright lights were turned on for the regular season. He won the competition in training camp over the other two. He lost it immediately however with his bad play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Also Hoyer had two mediocre games that we won. And one bad one that Brandon Weeden came in and bailed him out. Yes I like the brian hoyer story. I just think its a bad idea to get too excited. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Being a veteran player who can play gives Hoyer the short term big advantage. I'm happy with him starting. If there's anything he isn't getting done, and it's on him, Manziel may step in and take over at that point. I didn't see Hoyer not being the guy, it was other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I disagree with some of the comments on Hoyer and I, for one, am really excited to see him play next year. He first impressed me in one of the preseason games when he played the second half and led the team to a come from behind victory. In the 2 full games last season, he demonstrated accuracy, a quick release, good velocity on throws, good decision making skills, and an ability to be creative when necessary. I see him taking it up another notch next year with a balanced run/pass offence and better OL protection scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 maybe the QB coach will have a full day at TC dedicated to teaching these marys how to slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Also Hoyer had two mediocre games that we won. And one bad one that Brandon Weeden came in and bailed him out. Yes I like the brian hoyer story. I just think its a bad idea to get too excited. While I agree that "excited" would be a bit much... - 25 of 38 (65.8%) for 269 yds 2 TD and 0 INTs, and a 104 rating is hardly "mediocre"; and - leaving a game where you were 2/4 for 25 yds was hardly bad enough to require a bail-out. And as for the "bail-out" itself... - Benji Weedon returned a punt for a TD and T.J. Weedon had a pick 6... - but Wheezy (13/24 for 197 1 TD and 0 INT) did throw a long TD to Gordon and had a key throw-away late... on 4th and 6... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 maybe the QB coach will have a full day at TC dedicated to teaching these marys how to slide. I'd bring in a local baseball coach to help with that. It doesn't have to be a guy with the Indians. Baldwin Wallace has a baseball team if I am not mistaken. He could probably walk from his field to the Browns complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 While I agree that "excited" would be a bit much... - 25 of 38 (65.8%) for 269 yds 2 TD and 0 INTs, and a 104 rating is hardly "mediocre"; and - leaving a game where you were 2/4 for 25 yds was hardly bad enough to require a bail-out. And as for the "bail-out" itself... - Benji Weedon returned a punt for a TD and T.J. Weedon had a pick 6... - but Wheezy (13/24 for 197 1 TD and 0 INT) did throw a long TD to Gordon and had a key throw-away late... on 4th and 6... 9-9 touchdown interception versus 7-6. I like the guy too but I think you guys are getting blinded by love and hate at the same time. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 9-9 touchdown interception versus 7-6. ... and I think comparing one player's season stats to another's career stats is nonsensical cherry-picking. I know... for the season Hoyer was 5-3. But all three INTs were in his first game where he had to throw 54 passes to compete. Steve, I'm not over-the-moon enamored with Hoyer, but I am optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 ... and I think comparing one player's season stats to another's career stats is nonsensical cherry-picking. I know... for the season Hoyer was 5-3. But all three INTs were in his first game where he had to throw 54 passes to compete. Steve, I'm not over-the-moon enamored with Hoyer, but I am optimistic. Me too but like the TV show says Curb Your Enthusiasm guys. As soon as he throws three pics in game 1 or two or the team goes 0 & 2 you guys will be screaming give us Barabas! WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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