Frenchie Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I'm still pissed at the draft and our miss at WR in the first and second round. How do you not select Marquise Lee or Jordan Mathews in the second round when you know of Gordon is suspended and it was already a priority position of need? In fact, how do you not address it with the first or second pick in the first round? Then, how do you let Little go? I wanted him out of the organization as well but not with Gordon gone and no draft studs. Now Bennett is cut and I imagine that Austin will not make the team due to injury. I hate to be negative but Farmer needs to accept responsibility for this situation (an F in my books) as it could cost us a playoff birth. Yes Gordon should stop smoking pot but he's not the GM of the team. Training camp is a couple of months away, but I'm fed up with seeing garbage wide-outs. We really didn't need a Guard that badly. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibleedbrown Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 There is a school of thought that rookie WRs hardly bust it outta the box and tear up the league. I tend to agree with that, so basically l'm not sold that Watkins coulda been a huge difference maker this year. I don't even think Gordon's first season was all that jaw dropping. Kinda surprised they released Little too. Thought maybe why not, one more shot? At least into training camp. I figure he really really does suck, or they just don't like him. I think they're taking a shotgun approach with the wide receiver position. Few vets here, few undrafted rookies there, and see what sticks. Someone's gonna step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Apparently the front office thought that O-Line was a bigger need and drafted the guy they really liked for that role in Bitonio. As such, I expect that he'll be a beast. Regarding the WR situation, I think that if you remove Gordon from the equation the Browns WR corps is light years better than last year. The fact that Gordon hasn't been suspended yet has me clinging to a shred of hope that he'll get a minor (4-6 game) suspension. Time for the lawyers to earn their paychecks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Rookie WR's have learning curves. Unless you're a ridiculous talent like Megatron, AJ Green, or Julio Jones or unless you have a perennial Pro Bowl QB throwing you the ball like Randall Cobb, it's hard to come in and be an every-down contributor. Bitonio was a fantastic pick. Take off the one-year goggles and you can see why Farmer did what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 How about we let the season play out before bitching about draft picks with absolutely no sample size to work with. Hell I could understand bitching in preseason, but now? C'mon now. I hope you started this thread in the hopes of drumming up conversation. Else wise, you probably need to look into a hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Make-Believe Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 ... All of this and we still don't know if we're looking at: Gordon - Austin - Hawkins - Cameron (Burleson, Armstrong?) at some point during the course of the season. I don't know about anyone else, but that looks pretty decent to me. And sure as shit better than what we saw last year. I'm VERY happy with the draft this year (only guy I'm iffy about is Kirksey). Another WR would have been nice to see, but I don't think the team would have been any better with one INSTEAD of Bitonio, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Well Frenchie, I have a feeling a few guys are going to step up and we will barely miss Gordon. Add in the fact we are going to be a run first team and the WR numbers were going down this year anyway. Cheer up....we win 10 games this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Yeah....because a rookie is gonna replace Gordon's production. Smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Yeah....because a rookie is gonna replace Gordon's production. Smh Who says it has to be a rookie? My only point is wr production was going down anyway as our run production goes up. Some people act like with Gordon out, all of his production will be lost and nobody will do anything to replace it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuckin Futz Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Who says it has to be a rookie? My only point is wr production was going down anyway as our run production goes up. Some people act like with Gordon out, all of his production will be lost and nobody will do anything to replace it. I think Choco was addressing the OP, meaning if we drafted a WR in the first or second, he still wouldn't have replaced Gordon's production. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dste Ace Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I think it bears pointing out that with Gordon having an all-world season our record was a stellar 4-12. I have defended Little in the past but at the end of the day he was a receiver who was usually unable to get open, and when he did get open he couldn't catch the freakin' ball, so I wasn't too bent out of shape when he was released. I tend to agree with TCPO as far as taking off the one year goggles. Going into the draft, this team had too many holes to be able to fill with one draft. As far as wide receiver goes, re-read my first sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Training camp is a couple of months away, but I'm fed up with seeing garbage wide-outs. We really didn't need a Guard that badly. Thoughts? As opposed to last season's garbage running attack? We needed a new RB stable to be sure, but it was also time to spend more than a 3rd on an OG. While I do not expect our 2014 ground game to rewrite history, it should be a vast improvement and that will help our passing game. Plus a solid running game fits our defensive minded HC's approach. You can only plug so many holes in a given off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowburn Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 the gap between recent Browns performance and the playoff version is much wider than a perceived whiff on a wr pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vers Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 How about we let the season play out before bitching about draft picks with absolutely no sample size to work with. Hell I could understand bitching in preseason, but now? C'mon now. I hope you started this thread in the hopes of drumming up conversation. Else wise, you probably need to look into a hobby. God forbid we discuss the team on a message board. That would be stupid. Every year people bring up legitimate concerns about certain aspects of the team and every year the homers belittle those concerns. How about the Browns actually win some games before we start believing that every fucking move they make is golden? Our WR corps is questionable at best and putrid if you look at it realistically. It doesn't help that we are going to have an inexperienced QB throwing them the ball. I don't agree w/much of what the original poster said, as I would not have drafted a WR in round 1, but quit acting like the WR unit is not a concern. It is a concern and more than likely---it's a problem area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dste Ace Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 It is also worth noting that Gordon put up ridiculous numbers when the QB position was the smell of ass. Hoyer was only in the lineup for 2 games and change, and with merely competent QB play the offensive transformation was pretty amazing. Of course the WR position is a concern. So was QB, RB, CB, OL, ILB. There was no way in hell we were going to satisfactorily address every position of glaring need with one draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I think youre over-reacting a bit. He may know something we dont on Gordon. Bennett was probably terrible in OTA's. As was stated earlier, rookie wideouts very rarely tear up the league their rookie years. IMO guard was one of our top needs, and had he been there at 4 Robinson would have been the pick. Pettine wants to run the ball, a lot. Gordon wont be out all year, we have Austin, Burleson, Hawkins, 3 undrafted guys with some potential, a guy we brought in last year named Charles Johnson (who I think is turning some heads), and Benjamin. Theres more than enough talent there, especially when you factor in Cameron catching 60-70 balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Bennett is getting cut because Armstrong has been better. Young got cut because Thiggy was better. Groves got cut because they figured they had younger lbs that could do better. Farmer is strengthening the roster by bringing in competition at the bottom of it. As for the WRs, Burleson, Hawkins, Austin, Benjamin and Armstrong are 5 guys that will give you good play on Sundays. Then there are the young WRs. Ya, the WRs are on Farmer. I know we were spoiled by Bess and Little & MoMass and Robiskie ... but Im thinking Farmer's posse will be alright. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I think this team has made it clear they expect to build from the basics up. Defense first, O-line second and a QB to act like more of a point guard than a needle threading play call changer. Get the ball. Hold with great D and keep it with a great O-line blocking for power runners who know how to catch screens as well. Don;t be surprised if they go for a RT first pick next year to bookend with Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 How about the Browns actually win some games before we start believing that every fucking move they make is golden? How about the browns actually play some games before you get all know it all and try to claim you know how the receiver unit will be before training camp starts? M'Kay? Why can others not speculate while you can? Ya know....god forbid we discuss things on a message board right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEinCHI Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I cringe ant the notion that people feel the Josh Gordon suspension reports should have any influence over a draft strategy... suspensions are short term complication to the roster, the draft is a long term solution to long term gaps in the roster. If the Browns leave their plan and draft a WR because of the suspension they are essentially solving a 8-16 game gap (allegedly) problem with a 4 year solution (rookie contract length for RD 1 or 2 slot). That's assuming that WR can contribute right away but like it has been mentioned on the forum already it takes time for the WR to adjust to the game. An argument can be made that the vets that they brought in have more of a chance to contribute more immediately to the offense with an untested QB and new system (both Hoyer and Manzel fall into the untested category IMO). Bottom line is they had a plan, stuck to it and are addressing a short term problem with a short term solution vs changing the plan to try an fix a short term problem with a long term solution at the expense of not solving a long term problem (CB,QB,G) with the long term solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Yeah....because a rookie is gonna replace Gordon's production. Smh With Gordon likely out for at least 6 games and a scheme that is very friendly to TE, you can bet Cameron, who by all reports has elevated his game to the next level this year in camp, will top last year's production. Their is a perfect storm brewing for him. To the OPs point, the Browns did have receivers flagged on their board for the second 1st round pick, the second round pick, and the third round. In each case, the guys were taken. So Farmer stayed true to his board rather than reach for a WR. This is the first time since the team returned that I've seen such unity of vision between owner, coach, and GM and that's the main reason this team is going to be a contender soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vers Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 How about the browns actually play some games before you get all know it all and try to claim you know how the receiver unit will be before training camp starts? M'Kay? Why can others not speculate while you can? Ya know....god forbid we discuss things on a message board right? Nah, we never know. Every year some of us point out some issues the Browns have and every year the know-it-all homers use the same line on us about "how about we play some games before..." Blah, blah, blah. Our receivers suck until proven otherwise. You wanna ignore it, fine..............but, get off your high horse if some of us want to point out the truth of the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 First to grade this draft from Farmer an F is beyond absurd. We loaded up on talent AND got an extra first round pick next year. Closer to an A than an F. Secondly I would agree that no one is going to step in and replace Gordon's numbers. That includes any rookie that was available in the draft. There are a lot of ways to win football games and many of those ways don't require a super stud receiver. You may not like it but its a fact. Lastly you have no idea how long Gordon is actually going to be suspended for. The longer it stretches out the more I start to think it wont be a year. If it is we deal with it. If he is you are going to see a lot of ground and pound along with some killer plays by Baby Hawk. We can still win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I think the wide receiver core without Gordon is probably second worst in the league. You cant rely on Austin to play a full season. Armstrong is fools gold. I saw him last year in the Cowboys training camp. The guy looked like an all pro the first few weeks, then did nothing the rest of camp and was cut early. Hawkins is a nice 3rd or 4th WR but nothing more. Without Gordon its a scary position and was terribly neglected. How was it terribly neglected? We signed four free agents, including two guys with tons of starting experience and slot receiver who is a definite upgrade. Are you saying that we shouldnt have drafted Manziel or the guy that will block for Manziel? Because the cover corner was a no brainer. I can only guess that you are saying we should have drafted a 1st round impact receiver for Hoyer instead of taking Manziel. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 maybe all the experts/pundits who absolutely love JF as much as the biggest JF fanboys on this forum who gave the browns draft an A would persuade them to STFU already? nothing is good enough for these people. amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 How was it terribly neglected? We signed four free agents, including two guys with tons of starting experience and slot receiver who is a definite upgrade. Are you saying that we shouldnt have drafted Manziel or the guy that will block for Manziel? Because the cover corner was a no brainer. I can only guess that you are saying we should have drafted a 1st round impact receiver for Hoyer instead of taking Manziel. Z I said all along they should have drafted Watkins. I suppose a top CB and a first round pick next year is a fair trade off though. However- minus Gordon our wrs probably are some of the worst in the NFL- How many of them are a legit #2 on other teams? Certainly none of them are in #1 wr territory. Now you can posit great qb play and having all day to throw can offset some of that- as the Patriots do with their rag tags, but Hoyer isn't Tom Brady, and Manziel is a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted June 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 The F was not in relation to the entire draft, just the situation at WR. While I don't give the draft an A right now, it certainly has the potential to be one with the Buffalo trade, and the play of our selections (many of which will be starters really soon). I don't mean to bash Farmer or the FO because I can't imagine another group having done a better job. So I'll tip my cap to them as we head into summer camp, even though I am not happy about their efforts to proactively address the void at WR. Indeed, I fully realize that it might be difficult to address all the areas of need in one draft. But have they not done that (except for WR)? It seems they populated a stable of quality RB's and DB's -that's excellent. ILB and QB is still a concern but they tried their best to address them in the draft. OG was clearly addressed in the draft. Slot R was addressed as Hawkins replaced Bess. But WR has gone from Gordon & Little to ? and ?. Sorry, but why should I be happy with that? I'm having visions of 11 men in the box (J/K) as we have no proven/healthy/unsuspended WR's. We all know that we need a balanced attack in order to consistently win in our division. And yes, call me crazy, but I think with Gordon and a good #2 WR, combined with Hoyer's quick release and accurate pass, and with this defence, why shouldn't I project a playoff calibre team. For the first time in a while, I can really see some progress and potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 1 - I'm 99.100% sure Burleson was a starter last year in Detroit. He had 461 yards in the 8 games he played in. When healthy, he is more than capable of being a solid WR2, and a definite upgrade over Little. 2 - Austin in the last 5 years had 1,320/1,041/579/943/244, that's 3 years over-or-close-to 1,000 yds in the past 5. The two low years, he was hurt. He's only 29, and is taking his time with the Browns trainers getting healthy. He is capable of being a solid WR1, but if healthy is certainly a great WR2. A definite upgrade over Little. 3 - Hawkins... I'm not too sold on, but he seems to have great potential. Hell, if he can catch the ball he's a definite upgrade over Little. Other than adding these 3 to upgrade over Little (who sucked) and Bess (who is crazy)... how exactly did the FO mess up this WR situation? If anybody is responsible for our WR position being weaker than desirable it's JOSH GORDON. If he's on the field, and we have Gordon/Austin/Burleson/Hawkins and they are all healthy... that is a more-than-solid WR corp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibleedbrown Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I think the Browns were as proactive as they could be addressing the WR situation, while still sticking to their draft plan. How many #1 receivers were out there in free agency? And even if they didn't draft one, the undrafted ones they got have some really nice college credentials. It's pretty evident their FO targeted specific undrafted guys and went out and got them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I think the wide receiver core without Gordon is probably second worst in the league. You cant rely on Austin to play a full season. Armstrong is fools gold. I saw him last year in the Cowboys training camp. The guy looked like an all pro the first few weeks, then did nothing the rest of camp and was cut early. Hawkins is a nice 3rd or 4th WR but nothing more. Without Gordon its a scary position and was terribly neglected. Well, with your extensive knowledge of the roster of every pro team....lets see your comprehensive ranking from 1-32 of the WR corps in the NFL....go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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