Going to be a lot if disappointed guys in here come start of next season..

[Clevfan4life]

has anybody here actually taken into consideration our record pre and post Alex Mack??? at all?? we have had, I believe 4 starting Centers this year. anybody wondering why our season took a shit at that peticular moment? i think as a QB and you're running for your life every play than yea bad things happen...everytime. Hoyer is really good when our run game was in the top 5 and play action was lights out even without Gordon...Alex Mack stays healthy...who knows

 

thoughts from the Dawgpound

 

well the thing is Hoyer started making some throws that you simply cannot excuse on bad protection. And it wasn't just one or two, he really started missing badly. On throws that would have won us another game or two at least. He just shit the bed, for whatever reason. He's like Dalton, Dalton looks like such a stud and then if you watched the game tonight you see that he misses very badly on key throws. Watching Dalton tonight reminded me a lot on some of our past qb's including Hoyer.....at times they make clutch throws and then inconceivably miss easy gimme's that no NFL qb should miss more than once or twice a season. Hoyer just started to miss on too many easy throws and naturally it shitcanned his confidence on the big throws. Pettine had to see what he had in JF. It didn't work out but it is what it is...we now know JF is more of a project than we thought.

[dawgpound101]

 

well the thing is Hoyer started making some throws that you simply cannot excuse on bad protection. And it wasn't just one or two, he really started missing badly. On throws that would have won us another game or two at least. He just shit the bed, for whatever reason. He's like Dalton, Dalton looks like such a stud and then if you watched the game tonight you see that he misses very badly on key throws. Watching Dalton tonight reminded me a lot on some of our past qb's including Hoyer.....at times they make clutch throws and then inconceivably miss easy gimme's that no NFL qb should miss more than once or twice a season. Hoyer just started to miss on too many easy throws and naturally it shitcanned his confidence on the big throws. Pettine had to see what he had in JF. It didn't work out but it is what it is...we now know JF is more of a project than we thought.

haha. yea I agree I really love some stuff hoyer does when our offense is balanced. and then sometimes I'm saying WTF? did you through that ball for? and some are just straight up bad throws...under thrown, overthrown. yea pisses me off got me cussin' at home

[dawgpound101]

haha. yea I agree I really love some stuff hoyer does when our offense is balanced. and then sometimes I'm saying WTF? did you through that ball for? and some are just straight up bad throws...under thrown, overthrown. yea pisses me off got me cussin' at home

but I have seen more than one moment when I am saying..hmm Tom Bradyish style and throw on the money

[Clevfan4life]

it's gonna be a fucked offseason in terms of that position cause there's not really a whole lot of places to turn. If Hoyer leaves we can take a run at Bradford or Cutler (ugghh)...but who else? We could pull a Washington and mortgage our shit for Mariota.....and then watch him get hurt promise you it would go down like that this is Cleveland. I really think the best we can hope for is to retain Hoyer and JF and just say hey neither of you is guaranteed the starting position. Well Hoyer could probably be guaranteed the whole season next year but if he puts in another seesaw season he has to understand it's gonna be competition the following year. If he leaves I still think we should retain JF unless someone just thinks he'd be awesome in their system and is willing to really give us something good for him. I dunno.

[dawgpound101]

it's gonna be a fucked offseason in terms of that position cause there's not really a whole lot of places to turn. If Hoyer leaves we can take a run at Bradford or Cutler (ugghh)...but who else? We could pull a Washington and mortgage our shit for Mariota.....and then watch him get hurt promise you it would go down like that this is Cleveland. I really think the best we can hope for is to retain Hoyer and JF and just say hey neither of you is guaranteed the starting position. Well Hoyer could probably be guaranteed the whole season next year but if he puts in another seesaw season he has to understand it's gonna be competition the following year. If he leaves I still think we should retain JF unless someone just thinks he'd be awesome in their system and is willing to really give us something good for him. I dunno.

dude we absolutely need depth on the online. and our D-line was destroyed this year was rough. idk.I think we need to draft WR, O-line , and D-line first. stay with Hoyer and Shaw and idk about JFF yet....cutler?? lol idk maybe but he his A. Dalton equal ....hit or miss...just like Horyer. I really like Kyle's off. system

[gumby73]

At this time, don't over think it... Connor Shaw Starter 2015=73 Thomas say's it, Only 1 week with #1's,?? coaches that say play best player to win games?? Hoyer will get over paid by 3 teams he's out. JF had every chance to beat out a career backup, as we see it, need's to grow up and learn a NFL QB position. Did not like Shaw's touch on short ball's, looked more like a lob but the rest was not knowing WR's tendencies, and that comes with time and I think coaches will finally give him a chance. Shaw and JF[if not traded or cut] and a ?? FA or LATE QB draft pick will be our starter for 2015..I think the player's will play for Shaw as it is now. Go Browns!!

[Westside Steve]

I think the reason that Brian Hoyer will not and probably should not come back is the fact that even his supporters glumly admit is not very good. At best a journeyman backup which since you guys give him extra points for his birthplace probably means slightly below average.

The Kirk Cousins or Sam Bradford or Kyle Orton type of player aren't going to get the blind loyalty beyond the love that a backup quarterback always gets.

 

And think about it kids if coach GM and everybody else hated Johnny as badly as you did why would they ever start him? And if they did so because Jimmy Haslam ordered it then why care about the coaching staff at all? Try to be realistic. We have Steelers to hate.

 

WSS

[lodilobo]

JFs sample was so limited that not much can be taken from it....except he didn't play well in that very limited sample. We will know more when he has a number of starts.

 

Hoyer had a bunch of starts and proved he is what he is - a journeyman backup.

Manziel has a long way to go to achieve being a journeyman back up.....probably never will. He sucks.

[mohican]

I didn't see any throws that Johnny made that made me think "above average NFL arm", and few that made me think he was up to par as even average. Whatever speed and atheleticism he supposedly has is either overblown, or didn't translate.

[bbedward]

Connor Shaw 2014 > Johnny Manziel 2014

 

Brian Hoyer 2014 > Johnny Manziel 2014

 

You're only saying he needs to start and needs time "because he's a first round pick" (I put that in quotes because obviously the real reason is a deeper love for him)

 

He's the worst QB we've had on the roster in 2014* - that's probably including Thigpen. It's been pretty specifically stated that what round you're drafted in doesn't matter to the organization. They put the hardest workers who give the best chance to win in. Although to counter that you say "QB is different"

[Andruw u?]

Fuck, I'm still rooting for JFF, but at this rate he'd have to really F'ing prove it over the next 8 months to win (actually fucking earn) the starting job and if that's the standard, what's he done over the last 8 months to have anyone, from a stupid-ass fan, to Donte Whitner, to Pettine, expect that'll happen?

And I'd like a better stopgap than Hoyer but the best available FAs at this point are Locker, Sanchez, Ponder, Pryor, Mallett, so well, maybe one of those guys in year one with Shanny is better than Hoyer in year two.

Finally, and I know, I know, but my simple fucking mind still winds up over and over again at

 

Hoyer 10-6, everyone else 1-15

 

So JFF will still be here in 2015, but after watching his 2 starting efforts, who thinks JFF would've been better earlier in the season? Who thinks he'll be ready week 1 next season? - mainly in how unprepared he looked moreso than just a rookie playing badly. Shaw had about a C- game yesterday, even on a curve. But, at least he didn't need 3 am cram sessions, could call the plays, wanted to compete, made a couple nice throws and wasn't peeing his pants. Wow, what a high fucking bar, and JFF hasn't cleared even that. So that's how far JFF is away from being a No. 1 QB, even at a Hoyer level, but the good news is he's 22, I can be patient. At the same time, it's tougher to just call 10-6 shit and throw it away.

[tml1138]

The key to minimizing the setbacks from a busted first round pick is knowing when to stop the hemorrhaging. I'd hate to see us have to waste next season finding out if Manziel is the QB they hoped he'd be and find out he still sucks. Seems they have a good read on him (as they held him out this year until they had no choice) so here's hoping they figure him out and make a good decision. He'll make it easy for them if he continues to do what he's been doing off-field let alone on-field.

[The Cysko Kid]

 

Flacco and Stafford are more than mid range. At the least they are upper mid range. Both of those guys would be close to the best qb's Cleveland has ever had...especially Flacco.

False. Otto graham. It's gonna take a Tom Brady to be better than Otto. Flacco won't do it.

[ramblin]

Nobody should be guaranteed anything for next season at any position.

 

Today, Brian Hoyer is the best quarterback on the roster. It is not even debatable. Of course, we can't run him out of town quick enough. Sign Brian Hoyer if you still can, which is highly unlikely while JF is on the roster, keep Shaw and bring in a couple of vets. Use the draft and FA to address the other needs.

 

Sure, Hoyer is a great story with the hometown angle, but he is also the best QB on the roster today. And a true professional who is an above average leader that his teammates respect and will follow.

[calfoxwc]

My guess is, that Gordon and Broadway flop Johnny are

alcholics who couldn't care less about winning, as long as

they are getting high, and making $$$$$$$$$$$...

 

Just my opinion...Gordon needs to be gone. All this trouble he's had,

and he STILL goes to a party? He'll make enough money to

get himself suspended next year, and he'll be out of the league.

 

He's a restricted FA? haha, let him go.

 

I'll go with what the coaching staff and Farmer think. But manziel's party thing -

seriously? May as well dump him and his party problems. They aren't going away,

I think.

 

Maybe there's a Garapollo in next year's draft. How can anybody excuse Johnny for it

only being a few starts, when Connor Shaw came in, and absolutely looked like a real quartberback..

 

albeit, with a lack of a bigtime arm? In one game, I suppose Gordon and Manziel make more than a lot of

folks do in a year. They don't care if they get suspended, because they aren't really about winning, and

their team, anyways. Manziel has a problem, imho, and he won't admit it to himself.

[OldBrownsFan]

I will be disappointed if Manziel is still with the Browns next season. The team does not need the distraction, they need to cut him loose and move on. I saw the photo of Manziel clowning around on the sideline with Hoyer while in the middle of an embarrassing loss to the Bengals. I agree with something Kosar said that he could not fathom that kind of behavior with any of the elite teams in the NFL. It should not be tolerated with the Browns either. Then we hear about Manziel favoriting some tweet about a TMZ story during the game yesterday. He was a bad influence on two players other veteran players of the Browns were trying to mentor and get them on board with the rest of the team. Manziel needs help but he doesn't see it. He needs to get some counseling and not forced counseling he needs to seek it out on his own. I don't believe in forced counseling. I read where Manziel already got some forced alcohol counseling while in college.

 

If Manziel could just see the other side. The fans who scrape their money to afford to go to the games. They deserve better. I believe Pettine is going to give it to them and those players who refuse to act like professional NFL players let them go.

[gftChris]

I actually agree with the sentiment of this post, or at least the title. There are a lot of people calling for one or more of our "flying J's" to be cut or traded, and I suspect that all three will be on the roster next September. JFF will be at least competing for the starting job; Gilbert the same; and Gordon, despite his apparent lack of effort will be in the starting line up.

 

I don't know who will be competing with Manziel, but I suspect it won't be Hoyer - he'll want more money than our FO is prepared to give him, based on a not-very-good season. Maybe it'll be Shaw? With a third string journeyman guy throughout camp to 'mentor' them, like Thigpen/Grossman this year (because that went so well).

[gftChris]

And just to add, what I saw from Connor Shaw today was very reminiscent of Brian Hoyer, just without the experience. I think that's his floor. Ceiling probably not much higher.

[flyingfooldoug]

So I guess none of you kids noticed that Hoyer played pretty good until Mack went down. Then it was "Bar the door Katie" we couldnt run and didn't have time to pass. We need depth on the line...both sides. The teams that do consistantly good seem to have depth on their lines. You win and lose the game at the line of scrimmage. An old adage yes, but still very true.

[gftChris]

So I guess none of you kids noticed that Hoyer played pretty good until Mack went down. Then it was "Bar the door Katie" we couldnt run and didn't have time to pass. We need depth on the line...both sides. The teams that do consistantly good seem to have depth on their lines. You win and lose the game at the line of scrimmage. An old adage yes, but still very true.

Hoyer did appear to play well, but remember there was also a lot of 'only just' moments and should-have-been interceptions. I'm not saying he played badly, but he was hardly Peyton Elway for 4.5 games. He benefited hugely from a very effective rush game opening up all kinds of PAP, and that same OL being excellent in pass protection.

[flyingfooldoug]

Hoyer did appear to play well, but remember there was also a lot of 'only just' moments and should-have-been interceptions. I'm not saying he played badly, but he was hardly Peyton Elway for 4.5 games. He benefited hugely from a very effective rush game opening up all kinds of PAP, and that same OL being excellent in pass protection.

Appear? Like magic? You didn't notice how the whole O turned to shit after Mack left? Maybe you should think like this......It takes a great line for an offense to flourish. A great FA QB like Manning would never come here with the O line we have...period!

[Tour2ma]

Aw Man...

 

From the thread title I thought we were going to be Taco free in 2015, instead just more of the same old same old.

 

Imagine my disappointment... kinda like a 9-yo who only got sox for Christmas...

[gftChris]

Appear? Like magic? You didn't notice how the whole O turned to shit after Mack left? Maybe you should think like this......It takes a great line for an offense to flourish. A great FA QB like Manning would never come here with the O line we have...period!

'Appear' in that he had a very nice stat line, but that when you look a little closer, he had a lot of missed opportunities, as well as dropped interceptions. He got away with it while we were winning - and that continued even after Mack went down, as we went to 6-3, remember? However, as the luck started to run out with the dropped INTs, and the running game dried up, the missed opportunities and general inaccuracy become more apparent. I'm not saying he played badly, but I don't think he played as well as you seem to believe.

 

As for our OL, before the freak broken leg, it looked as good as any in the league. I agree depth is needed, though, as after the injury, we had nobody who could step up and play on the interior - Greco to center is all fine and dandy, but only if you have another guy who can come in and play G. We apparently do not, as McQuistan showed. I believe we'll pick up someone in the second/third round, probably an OT that can slide inside to OG in the pros like Bitonio while still offering cover at OT should something happen to Schwartz or (heaven help us) Thomas.

[VENOM]

Thake this all in account before you burry Hoyer:

Hoyer didn't have much to throw to.

The RB position was in flux most of the year.

The O-Line was less than stellar.

Hoyer had the distraction of everyone begging for their savior Johnny PartyBall all year.

[Andruw u?]

Give me a little luck and 10-6 all day long (while on the other side of the luck coin, Hawkins was the No. 1 receiver part of the time, Willis Mcgahee was the No. 1 RB in Hoyer's wins in 2013, one more defensive stop and good Hoyer/bad Hoyer would've been enough at Pitt, vs. Balt, and vs. Indy). How much good luck will we need for JFF to go 10-4 in his next 14 starts?

 

So, Hoyer can win with a good OL (even though 4 of his wins this year came after Mack went down), and Hoyer can win with a good run game (even though Hoyer's sometimes sucked, but sometimes "figured out ways to win" in games when we've had 0 running game), and Hoyer can "manage" a game well with decent help from Shanny getting his shit right. Good, fine, is it unicorns and show ponies? At least it's a plan and one which is relatively within reach. What's the general game plan to go with what Johnny's shown so far?

[Kdubs]

You can't teach determination drive and work ethic.... bye bye manzel I'd take colt Mccoy hoyer or pretty much anyone over johnny no show.

[ColumbusKing]

If and when Hoyer gets cut, Shaw has got to be first string over Johnny Cocaine, Shaw played against a MUCH MUCH tougher team then either teams johnny played. Johnny made Shaw look like Bernie Kosar.

[Mark O]

If and when Hoyer gets cut, Shaw has got to be first string over Johnny Cocaine, Shaw played against a MUCH MUCH tougher team then either teams johnny played. Johnny made Shaw look like Bernie Kosar.

Hoyer won't be cut. He's a free agent and probably won't be back because I imagine another team will offer him more than we're prepared to pay. I think Johnny fuckwad will be on the roster but he's no way guaranteed the starting job and there will be someone brought in to compete and my guess is that unless he "sees the light" and turns his life around, JFF will not win the starting job here or anywhere else. He doesn't have the make up to do what it takes to be a starting QB. Hoyer has the make up to be that guy but unfortunately, just doesn't have the talent. Very similar to Colt McCoy. Colt has the make up and desire to be a successful starter, just not the talent.

[alporcini]

Listening to Pettine and Haslam, it doesn't sound too good for either Manziel or Gordon. I think they're gone. Nothing will happen until after the season but as a Browns fan I won't miss them. Right now I would rather have Geno Smith. At least he can see over the defense.

 

What do you think we can get for Gordon? Would NE give us a #1 (early 30's)? Can we get a #2? We're not gonna just give him away.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Manziel will be on the roster. Hoyer will not. Shaw will likely be the backup, now that he can't be stashed on the practice squad. Shanahan will likely be gone, which means we'll have a new offensive system. Gordon will likely still be on the team as well, unless someone is stupid enough to offer a second rounder.

 

Hoyer will go to Tennessee or Washington or somewhere like that.