calfoxwc Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 OS: "I agree 100% with this. The extent of the self-delusion that somehow actions don't have consequences has often had me (and many in the Muslim world) speculating that the delusion is propagated for the purpose of maintaining public support for military actions against Muslim countries." Ah. So the invasion of Kuwait, is because of Kuwaits military actions against Muslim countries? The hatred for Israel and Jews in general, is because of their military actions against Muslim countries... and of course, how dare Americans and Jewish peoples defend themselves, because, by golly, that is just a matter of making extremists angry, and is responsible for FURTHER hideous beheadings and genocide against any innocent men, women, and children, even though sharia extremist bs has been happening for centuries, long before we were even a country????????????? Ok. Now I've had it. In the same damn article, OS, it says that the Muslims took over power in a junta, and: "Christians have also been victims of violence, targeted by Muslims in this complex communal conflict that U.N. and humanitarian officials fear could implode into genocide. Several hundred thousand Christians remain in crowded, squalid camps, unable or too afraid to return home." Therefore, Muslim intolerance and hideous violence against Christians prompted them to retaliate. Gee, you missed that part, eh, Os? No wonder, even Os is condoning, not condemning isis type Muslim violence. I'm calling total bullship. Which is no wonder that the Muslim orgs rarely say anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yeah, too bad ancient India was a "western power" that justified their military action against Muslim countries by.... (the hidden agenda is, apparently, to refuse to speak out against even ancient Muslim violence, out of fear, and instead, talk about how Western countries brought it about by their actions against Muslim countries, who harbor and support "Islamist" terrorist groups....) wait. What a clusterfook of backwards rationalization. ***************************************************************** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_violence_in_India Muhammad bin Qasim (early 8th century)[edit] The 8th century Hindu Martand Sun Temple in Kashmir was considered an infidel's place of worship and destroyed by Delhi Sultanate's Muslim armies.[25][26] The earliest documented religious wars in India are from the 8th century, when Islamic armies attacked the Hindu and Buddhist kingdoms in the northwest parts of Indian subcontinent, now modern Pakistan and parts of Indian states of Gujarat, Rajasthan and Punjab in early 8th century. Muhammad bin Qasim and his army, assaulted numerous towns, plundered them for wealth, enslaved Buddhists and Hindus, and destroyed temples and monasteries.[27] In some cases, they built mosques and minarets over the remains of the original temples, such as at Debal and later in towns of Nerun and Sadusan (Sehwan)[28] After each battle all captured men were executed and their wives and children enslaved. One fifth of the booty and slaves were dispatched back as khums tax to Hajjaj and the Caliph.[29] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yeah, those Islamist armies went genocidal because in America, Bush sent us into Iraq and Afghanistan ! What the hell kind of history is that, Os? Sorry, you lost me, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Dang, India must have sent their warplane and missiles into a Muslim country, in the 11th century, too. *********************************** Mahmud of Ghazni (11th century)[edit]Mahmud of Ghazni was a Sultan who invaded the Indian subcontinent from present-day Afghanistan during the early 11th century. His campaigns included plundering and destruction of Hindu temples such as those at Mathura, Dwarka, and others. In 1024 AD, Mahmud of Ghazni attacked and destroyed the third Somnath temple killing over 50,000 and personally destroying the Shiva lingam after stripping it of its gold.[33][34] The historian Al Utbi narrated the violence as, “ The infidel remained where he was, avoiding action for a long time. The Sultan would not allow him to postpone the conflict, and the friends of God commenced action, setting upon the enemy with sword, arrow and spear - plundering, seizing and destroying. The Hindus began to fight. Swords flashed like lightning amid the blackness of clouds and fountains of blood flowed like the fall of setting stars. Noon had not arrived when the Musulmans had wrecked their vengeance on the infidel enemies of God, killing 15,000 of them, spreading them like a carpet over the ground, and making them food for beasts and birds of prey. God bestowed upon Sultan's friends such an amount of booty as was beyond all bounds and all calculation, including five hundred thousand slaves, beautiful men and women. The Sultan returned to his camp, having plundered immensely, by God's aid. This took place on 27th November 1001. – Abu Nasr Muhammad ibn Muhammad al Jabbaru-l 'Utbi (al-Utbi), Táríkh Yamini[35] ” Mahmud of Ghazni made at least sixteen raids into India, against Hindus. Each campaign witnessed religious violence, killing of thousands of people, plunder and Mahmud returning with Hindu slaves and loot. The lives of numerous Muslims and Hindus were lost. For his sixth raid of 1008 AD, the Hindu kingdoms of Ujjain, Gwaliar, Kalinjar, Kanauj, Delhi and Ajmer formed a coalition to resist the attack by Muslim army of Ghazni. Hindu females sold their jewelry and put labor into providing war supplies. The sixth war erupted in the fields of Punjab, where Ghazni troops had entered through Afghanistan. Thousands of Turk-Afghan Muslim soldiers were killed within the first hour. In the chaos of the battles, armies fled in different directions, and thousands of Hindus were hacked to death by the retreating army.[36] In the sixteenth campaign, Mahmud raided Gujarat and Sindh region of South Asia, and destroyed Somnath temple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 yeah, Os. You and many other Muslims see isis type violence as just a reaction to western countries' military actions against Muslim countries...... Nobody with any sense is buyin it. It's just a warped, cowardly way of not standing up to "MUSLIM" extremist terrorism, that has been happening since the beginning of religious recorded history, when that religion came on the scene. Sorry to say, it's in the words of the Koran. I heard a former Muslim simply explain, that the first nine verses of the Koran tell the tale. Os, you just fell and are treading water....... in Egypt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 So, they had drones in ancient India, too. Can't forget THAT piece of "history".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Cal, you ought to really keep it all to one post. I was responding to Chris, not you, and it isn't cool for you to flood the thread and make it harder for him to see my original response. Your responses suggest to me you have no idea what I am actually saying, claiming I said things I did not say, and responding emotionally and not thoughtfully, so I'm not even going to engage you in this discussion until you show some better reading comprehension skills. Until then, to you I say good day, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 And, even though I realize that most Muslims probably, hopefully, don't support this chick and her attitude she's not being ostracized as someone would be if she spoke up at a campus rally saying the same thing about blacks. I don't know how you change attitudes but I don't see much difference between her and the campus ku Klux Klan leader. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/01/13/horrifying-isis-video-shows-executions-carried-out-child Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Sorry, Os, but I quoted you: "I agree 100% with this. The extent of the self-delusion that somehow actions don't have consequences has often had me (and many in the Muslim world) speculating that the delusion is propagated for the purpose of maintaining public support for military actions against Muslim countries." And to a point, I did respond emotionally. The quote above means that you are saying, imho, that our actions in the Middle East caused the terrorists to give us "consequences", like 9/11. It means "our chickens have come home to roost"... as in, the terrorists are justified somehow, because our actions have consequences. I simply added your admitted rationale doesn't fly, and gave you examples from India to show it. Of course 9/11 is an emotional thing for me and most of us, unless one of us is a little, ignorant sissy from Michigan or something. If I am missing something, don't engage me, simply explain. Especially with the quote above in red. If you want to try to walk it back, I'm seriously willing to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Him and GFT should be banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Him and GFT should be banned. down with dissenting opinions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Him and GFT should be banned. What exactly for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Um, what? http://www.mediaite.com/online/ultra-orthodox-jewish-newspaper-edits-female-world-leaders-out-of-charlie-hebdo-march/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Sorry, Os, but I quoted you: "I agree 100% with this. The extent of the self-delusion that somehow actions don't have consequences has often had me (and many in the Muslim world) speculating that the delusion is propagated for the purpose of maintaining public support for military actions against Muslim countries." And to a point, I did respond emotionally. The quote above means that you are saying, imho, that our actions in the Middle East caused the terrorists to give us "consequences", like 9/11. It means "our chickens have come home to roost"... as in, the terrorists are justified somehow, because our actions have consequences. I simply added your admitted rationale doesn't fly, and gave you examples from India to show it. Of course 9/11 is an emotional thing for me and most of us, unless one of us is a little, ignorant sissy from Michigan or something. If I am missing something, don't engage me, simply explain. Especially with the quote above in red. If you want to try to walk it back, I'm seriously willing to listen. And this is where your reading comprehension issues come up. You are responding not to what I said, but what your emotions led you to think I was saying. Nowhere is 9/11 mentioned in what you quoted. Nowhere in any dictionary will you find "consequence" and "justification" as synonyms, and no where in my response to Chris did I imply that terrorists are justified in their actions. What I said, in other words, is that actions have consequences. This isn't rocket science. If you throw a rock at a window, the consequence is that the window breaks. If a kid puts chili powder in another kid's lunch as a prank, but didn't know that kid had chili allergies, the resulting allergic reaction is an unintended consequence. If you forcibly remove the president of Iraq from office by invading the country, the consequence is that you've created a power vacuum. The unintended consequence is that ISIS fills that power vacuum. This is cause and effect. The fact that this seems lost on you proves my point: their is a delusion among some in the West that actions don't have consequences. My final point was speculation that this delusion seems to serve the purpose of absolving us of any responsibility for what happens in the places we meddle with, which seems to just promote more meddling. You are free to agree or disagree with this final point, as I said it is speculation, not something I consider factual. If it makes you feel better, I have observed that people in the Middle East (or at least in Egypt) have their own set of delusions. The one that annoys me the most is that America is to blame for every ill under the sun. The power goes out in half the country? American conspiracy! It snows? American conspiracy! Muslim Brotherhood? American conspiracy! The saddest part is this self-delusion is that that it hurts them the most. How can you fix the problems in your country if you are unable to take responsibility for them? What exactly for? Apparently for trying to conduct an intelligent discussion as I was trying to do with you in my response to your post, before Cal post-stormed it back into page three. Being a bigot is perfectly acceptable here according to Diehard. Trying to have constructive commentary, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Oh lord...... Scary isn't it? Apologist on board who condone terrorism and live in Denial. This why Dawkins, Hitchens, Krauss, and Maher would laugh in their fucking face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 What does the U.S. invading Iraq have to do with ISIS and other Islamic Terror groups committing acts of terror amongst their own people in Nigeria, Yemen, Syria, etc? A girl in Pakistan burned alive in an oven for being a Christian by some savage Muslims is our fault too right? A french cartoonist makes an offensive drawing so naturally it's our fault right? I don't give a fuck if you think I'm a bigot, your sad devotion to that embarrassing religion is the reason this planet is fucked. Then again if I was a sober bearded Retard who couldn't eat bacon Id blow some shit up myself. News flash: Allah is dead. Mohammed is dead. The Quran is a fucking clown show. It's fucking make believe. They fucking made it up to control that ignorant Retarded fucking mind of yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 What I said, in other words, is that actions have consequences. This isn't rocket science. If you throw a rock at a window, the consequence is that the window breaks. If a kid puts chili powder in another kid's lunch as a prank, but didn't know that kid had chili allergies, the resulting allergic reaction is an unintended consequence. If you forcibly remove the president of Iraq from office by invading the country, the consequence is that you've created a power vacuum. The unintended consequence is that ISIS fills that power vacuum. This is cause and effect. The fact that this seems lost on you proves my point: their is a delusion among some in the West that actions don't have consequences. OS ************************************************************** Os, I'm 64. Giving a lecture on "consequences" is pretty silly, don't you think? Even on a global scale? Of course our country has meddled, CIA, etc... But the reign of terror and global arms dealing with terrorist groups by the hussein klan, And no, ISIS taking over a vacuum created by OBAMAO by leaving like he did.... is not on Bush and our country for overthrowing saddam and his psycho serial killer and rapist sons. They found MOUNTAINS of arms in giant warehouses, Os, in Iraq. My very liberal friend was in Intel over in Iraq, and he told me when I asked,"Yes, Abolutely" to "should we have gone in?". He wouldn't tell me anything else, except that if Americans knew why we had to....all of America would agree. Isis is Obamao's failure to make hard decisions. Obamao's cowardice and leftist identity at any cost is what causedthat to happen. We meddle? Where does terrorism originate from? The middle east, Os. Who is doing all the threatening of Israel and us with extinction, and horrible death and destruction to any of our innocent people, Os? The middle east. I have never had problems with reading comprehension. I'm very, very analytical. I brought up 9/11 to refer to those who claimed that it happened because we were reaping consequences of our actions. I brought up the other paragraphs, because you claimed, and inferred, that Christians went terrorist and committed genocide against innocent Muslims, but in the same article, it explains that their country's gov was taken over by Muslims, and Muslims went on murderous rampages against Christians and other innocents, and that the Christians were fighting back in self defense. And although unintendedly so, you parroted the warped, stupidass terrorist mantra in a left-handed way. that the terrorism going on is a result of our actions. That is why I explained that those actions have been going on sinece forever, or at least, in very ancient India. There is abolutely no correlation between anything our country has done in over 200 years, that has anything to do with "consequences" in referring to isil and al queda torturing, beheading, raping and enslaving innocent men, women and children, especially since they weren't Americans. Especially since they were also Muslim. This terrorism has to do with extremist, cultish, mental illness on a big scale, and it has been happening for many, many centuries. Your "unintended consequences" spiel is offensive in the worst way. All you do with that garbage, is to lend some kind of little bit of credence to Walter's outrageous ramblings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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