larryfine Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Well, you are wrong. You apparently were not alive when all that went down. As I said, players in the 70s were much, much closer to the size, strength speed of the players in the 50s than they are to today's players. That is an uncontroverted fact. Players, especially linemen did not to get like 300 pounds until the mid 80s. Also, the nature of the game changed far far in favor of the offense. There was no 5 yard rule, no can't hit the QB rule etc. etc. Otto Graham and Joe Montana were about the same height/weight. The Browns last champion qb, Frank Ryan was 6'3". Pretty average for today's QBs. Oh I was around back then. I just don't know what I'm talking about. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Brady may have just secured it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Brady had a great comeback but it was won on a browns - like bungle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Brady may have just secured it. Because an undrafted CB from West Alabama made a great play? That's why I don't play the ring game. If Lynch punches it in like everyone expected, then Brady hasn't won a SB in 11 years and only has one more ring than Russell Wilson. Pete Carroll allows his offensive coordinator to call an insipid play and Brady is now the Greatest ever. He was, of course, on the sideline when this was all happening to him. Zombo --I wanted Seattle to win to just not to have hear how great the Patriots are from all the Patriots fans here. There are no Seahawk fans in Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Because an undrafted CB from West Alabama made a great play? That's why I don't play the ring game. If Lynch punches it in like everyone expected, then Brady hasn't won a SB in 11 years and only has one more ring than Russell Wilson. Pete Carroll allows his offensive coordinator to call an insipid play and Brady is now the Greatest ever. He was, of course, on the sideline when this was all happening to him. Zombo --I wanted Seattle to win to just not to have hear how great the Patriots are from all the Patriots fans here. There are no Seahawk fans in Florida. I think it would be a lot less pleasant listening to Richard Seymour and Marshawn Lynch running their fat punk mouths for a year... WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I think it would be a lot less pleasant listening to Richard Seymour and Marshawn Lynch running their fat punk mouths for a year... WSS They don't live here either. But every guy I sit next to in a bar down here is Jimmy from Brockton or Tommy from Taunton telling me how how Brady walks on water and the ol' "How did Cleveland ever let Belichick leave?" We didn't. Assholes. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=Aho8UUS4bvVz6Mg.DTHu1eSbvZx4?p=the+goat+waiting&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-315&fp=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 They don't live here either. But every guy I sit next to in a bar down here is Jimmy from Brockton or Tommy from Taunton telling me how how Brady walks on water and the ol' "How did Cleveland ever let Belichick leave?" We didn't. Assholes. Zombo Actually the league should have told Art Modell to go fuck himself and sell the team. Then who knows? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I'd still take Farve over Brady any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Because an undrafted CB from West Alabama made a great play? That's why I don't play the ring game. If Lynch punches it in like everyone expected, then Brady hasn't won a SB in 11 years and only has one more ring than Russell Wilson. Pete Carroll allows his offensive coordinator to call an insipid play and Brady is now the Greatest ever. He was, of course, on the sideline when this was all happening to him. Zombo --I wanted Seattle to win to just not to have hear how great the Patriots are from all the Patriots fans here. There are no Seahawk fans in Florida. ^^this. The ring discussion is media driven sensationalism. Brady, all by himself, won the Super Bowl. He's the one who picked off Wilson, he blocked for himself and also caught all of his passes. This isn't basketball, and if it was Brady would be terrible at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Oh I was around back then. I just don't know what I'm talking about. LOL At least you have made one accurate statements on these boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Because an undrafted CB from West Alabama made a great play? That's why I don't play the ring game. If Lynch punches it in like everyone expected, then Brady hasn't won a SB in 11 years and only has one more ring than Russell Wilson. Pete Carroll allows his offensive coordinator to call an insipid play and Brady is now the Greatest ever. He was, of course, on the sideline when this was all happening to him. Zombo --I wanted Seattle to win to just not to have hear how great the Patriots are from all the Patriots fans here. There are no Seahawk fans in Florida. It was Brady's effort that gave his team the opportunity to be in a position to take advantage of the mistake the other team made. I agree that the "ring game" is not the be all and end all of deciding who the GOAT is......but it is an important factor. Winning in the clutch.....guiding a team to a championship or to the cusp of a championship is important. But,no, winning this one didn't elevate Brady above the other candidates in my mind. I already had him up there. If you just want to go on basic innate pure passing ability....put Jeff George and Jay Cutler into your mix. Winning does matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 They don't live here either. But every guy I sit next to in a bar down here is Jimmy from Brockton or Tommy from Taunton telling me how how Brady walks on water and the ol' "How did Cleveland ever let Belichick leave?" We didn't. Assholes. Zombo You are exactly right. Tell them that the official agreement that created the Baltimore Ravens occurred on February 9, 1996. Bill Belichick was fired as the coach of the Baltimore Ravens on February 15, 1996. So, BB was the HC of the NYJ for one day....and HC of the Ravens for one week. http://www.profootballhof.com/history/stats/franchises.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 It was Brady's effort that gave his team the opportunity to be in a position to take advantage of the mistake the other team made. I agree that the "ring game" is not the be all and end all of deciding who the GOAT is......but it is an important factor. Winning in the clutch.....guiding a team to a championship or to the cusp of a championship is important. But,no, winning this one didn't elevate Brady above the other candidates in my mind. I already had him up there. If you just want to go on basic innate pure passing ability....put Jeff George and Jay Cutler into your mix. Winning does matter. Yes, winning matters. Manning, Montana and Graham won a hell of lot of footballs games. I look at entire careers. Brady had a good game, threw two interceptions, but brought the team back, played steady. But if he lost, if Seattle scored there, I wouldn't of held it against him. He is still the same QB he was before Wilson threw that interception. A damn good one. But not my GOAT. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 My Mt. Rushmore: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 <<I wanted Seattle to win to just not to have hear how great the Patriots are from all the Patriots fans here. There are no Seahawk fans in Florida.>> So you don't draft Steelers or Ravens players for you Fantasy Team. Do you not sell houses to Patriots fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 <<I wanted Seattle to win to just not to have hear how great the Patriots are from all the Patriots fans here. There are no Seahawk fans in Florida.>> So you don't draft Steelers or Ravens players for you Fantasy Team. Do you not sell houses to Patriots fans? I sell many houses to Patriot fans. That's why I don't want them winning because I have to hear about it. Plus they are in the AFC. Seattle wins .... doesn't change my life. Patriots win ... Blah blah blah Brady, blah blah. And then we move into training camp and the Red Sox .... Blah blah Sox Blah blah. I prefer to remember the Patriots and Red Sox from the 20th century ... painfully tortured (like us) ... When the Browns were the Browns and all was right with the world. I didn't have to worry about drafting Ravens cause there weren't any fucking Ravens. Not much fantasy football for that matter. Ahh, those were the days. 1994. I was blissfully single, living in Florida and the Browns were in the playoffs. I bame Modell for everything that has happened since. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I sell many houses to Patriot fans. That's why I don't want them winning because I have to hear about it. Plus they are in the AFC. Seattle wins .... doesn't change my life. Patriots win ... Blah blah blah Brady, blah blah. And then we move into training camp and the Red Sox .... Blah blah Sox Blah blah. I prefer to remember the Patriots and Red Sox from the 20th century ... painfully tortured (like us) ... When the Browns were the Browns and all was right with the world. I didn't have to worry about drafting Ravens cause there weren't any fucking Ravens. Not much fantasy football for that matter. Ahh, those were the days. 1994. I was blissfully single, living in Florida and the Browns were in the playoffs. I bame Modell for everything that has happened since. Zombo How long of a drive from Sarasota to Naples? I will be in Sarasota next Friday afternoon thru Monday evening. Short trip. Visiting relatives. However, I pick my friends, not my relatives so...............if the drive isnt crazy - I am thinking 3 hours minimum, I believe I owe you a drink or lunch. PS I have to ditch my wife first, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 How long of a drive from Sarasota to Naples? I will be in Sarasota next Friday afternoon thru Monday evening. Short trip. Visiting relatives. However, I pick my friends, not my relatives so...............if the drive isnt crazy - I am thinking 3 hours minimum, I believe I owe you a drink or lunch. PS I have to ditch my wife first, though. Just a little over an hour and a half. I could even meet you in Fort Myers which is closer. Ditch the wife, hope to see you! Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Just a little over an hour and a half. I could even meet you in Fort Myers which is closer. Ditch the wife, hope to see you! Zombo Send your phone number to my email address, Johnny Meeting in FM would give me a chance to, at least, look at my condo. That would be the first time in nearly 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Send your phone number to my email address, Johnny Meeting in FM would give me a chance to, at least, look at my condo. That would be the first time in nearly 10 years. Will do ... Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I sell many houses to Patriot fans. That's why I don't want them winning because I have to hear about it. Plus they are in the AFC. Seattle wins .... doesn't change my life. Patriots win ... Blah blah blah Brady, blah blah. And then we move into training camp and the Red Sox .... Blah blah Sox Blah blah. I prefer to remember the Patriots and Red Sox from the 20th century ... painfully tortured (like us) ... When the Browns were the Browns and all was right with the world. I didn't have to worry about drafting Ravens cause there weren't any fucking Ravens. Not much fantasy football for that matter. Ahh, those were the days. 1994. I was blissfully single, living in Florida and the Browns were in the playoffs. I bame Modell for everything that has happened since. Zombo See the post in my thread where I note that the Boston fans have become the most arrogant spoiled fan base in the nation....probably more arrogant and spoiled than Pisstown fans.....but probably not quite as stupid. Let's put it this way: they certainly have had more success than they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Let's put it this way: they certainly have had more success than they deserve. What the hail does this mean, Gip. Fans are not deserving in any way. The teams have had a ton of success the last 20 years, or so. What is not deserving of that? You might be suffering from low self-esteem because - somehow - you suffer from championship envy. Probably, more a case of sour grapes. Although some fans tend to tie their self-worth to the success of sports teams, I believe you're smarter than that. Baseball fans are, IMHO, generally more sophisticated / smart than football fans. It's the nature of the sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I don't know about the cheating, I think the Pats just got caught doing what most teams do. Maybe they do it a little worse, who knows. But what I do believe is that Belichick makes his players play as a team, he accomplishes more with his talent than any other coach ever! So....... what if it was any of the other so-called elite who ended up being Bill's QB? Brett Favre NOPE....NOT A TEAM GUY Peyton Manning MAYBE Dan Marino PROBABLY John Elway PROBABLY Fran Tarkenton DIFFERENT ERA Drew Brees MAYBE Aaron Rodgers PROBABLY Ben Roethlisberger MAYBE Eli Manning NOT WORTHY OF BEING ON THE LIST Except for Tarkenton your list basically encompasses a fairly narrow era. The 90s/2000s. That is why I suggested that we probably have to look at each era, and take a guy from each there. Earlier eras dominated by Luckman, Graham, Starr, Bradshaw, Staubach, Montana whom I see you did not list. Can you make an argument that BR is better than Peyton? If we do play the "ring game" you can. BR won 2 lost 1. Peyton won 1 lost 2. Plus BR has a .667 postseason record, where Peyton is only .458. BR's contemporaries of Eli and Rivers? Eli has a .727 post season record....and two titles....so I might not be so hasty in eliminating him. Phil Rivers at .444 would be the one to not match up....at least not with that particular factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 What the hail does this mean, Gip. Fans are not deserving in any way. It means that Boston area fans can be asshats....and ergo should not have the right to have their teams be so successful. The teams have had a ton of success the last 20 years, or so. What is not deserving of that? I didn't say the teams were not deserving. Yes, these teams had success that they earned on the field. You might be suffering from low self-esteem because - somehow - you suffer from championship envy. Probably, more a case of sour grapes. No, more actually of recognizing a group of spoiled dickheads when I see them. Not everyone...but a fair amount of them. Although some fans tend to tie their self-worth to the success of sports teams, I believe you're smarter than that. Some fans tend not to tie their self worth to the success of sports teams....but to assign to themselves a right to superiority over others due to the fact that their sports teams have had success. It is not a matter of being smart or otherwise. It is a matter of observing that type of behavior. Baseball fans are, IMHO, generally more sophisticated / smart than football fans. It's the nature of the sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Brady threw for 300+ and four touchdowns on the best defense in the league. The pats were down 10 after a lackluster 3rd quarter but then Brady dug down deep and mounted an epic comeback. The Legion of boom wilted before his fury while "Brady! Brady!" chants rained down on Arizona. THAT is greatness. That is what we haven't seen in Cleveland ever. In the end it came down to one play after wilson valiantly tried to win it but the best man prevailed. If ever there was a definitive end to the brady vs manning argument it was last night. The seahawks clowned manning and donkey teeth. Tom Brady, the serial killer, refused to go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Sour tears of haters taste yummy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 The list encompasses 90 and 2000's for the simple reason that you can't compare 70's and 80's QB's to todays QB's. Entirely different game! And since the question was about Brady, and my comment was about Belichick, I kept it to the guys who played in that era......or close. Well, as I said, I think the one thing that you can compare over eras is how much that QB dominated his era. While certainly yes, players from the 30s/40s/50s/60s weren't throwing for 4000-5000 yards routinely like they are today (due to rule changes and lengthier schedules) you can compare if they won more than their contemporaries. And you can compare if they were consistent leaders in variously statistical categories. Take this example: Since 2000 Drew Brees has led the NFL in total passing yards 5 times....with total passing yards of like 4400, 5400,5100, 4900, 5000 In his era, Otto Graham also led the league in passing yards 5 times but with totals of 2700/2800/2800/2700. Then take the leaders in TD passes. Brady/Brees/Manning have been kind of sharing the lead in that stat the last 15 years with TD totals from anywhere from 28 to 55 TDs. And going back in time to say the 40s, a similar thing was happening where the likes of Sid Luckman, Sammy Baugh and Bob Waterfield were trading the TD pass crown back and forth....but yea, the numbers were different. They ranged from like 14 to 28 TDs per year. How you do against your contemporaries I believe can be compared.....even if the numbers are inflated in recent years. For a period there in the late 50s/early 60s Johnny Unitas was winning just about every passing stat battle. He dominated everyone else. Again, sure the numbers were different than today's numbers, but in comparison to his contemporaries he ruled. Here is another thing in which Brady has something similar to Unitas: Johnny U won early on in his career, back to back in 1958/59. Then he came back over a decade later to win again in the 1970 season. Like Brady who won in 01/03/04....but came back over a decade later to win in /15. Having that kind of "staying power" gives a lot of credence to me for both of them to be considered the GOAT.....or at least putting them on that Mt. Rushmore of QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Brady threw for 300+ and four touchdowns on the best defense in the league. The pats were down 10 after a lackluster 3rd quarter but then Brady dug down deep and mounted an epic comeback. The Legion of boom wilted before his fury while "Brady! Brady!" chants rained down on Arizona. THAT is greatness. That is what we haven't seen in Cleveland ever. In the end it came down to one play after wilson valiantly tried to win it but the best man prevailed. If ever there was a definitive end to the brady vs manning argument it was last night. The seahawks clowned manning and donkey teeth. Tom Brady, the serial killer, refused to go down. Brady is just a winner who puts up numbers throwing to Danny Amendola and Julian Edelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Brady is just a winner who puts up numbers throwing to Danny Amendola and Julian Edelman Are you saying that those guys don't quite match up to like Jerry Rice who Montana had to throw to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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