Erie Dawg Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think putting in medical hardship papers for Devin Gardner was shady of michigan also. According to gardner the extended eligibility was to "show case his talents" LOL! Lets face facts here he isnt a QB, and who was he trying to impress? But Michigan knew he was better than what they had waiting in the wings. (who must of been a real gem if he couldnt beat out Gardner) so they bought themselves some time by using medical hardship. So woodie I take it you agree with this since you glossed it over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 No, I'm trying to shed light on thus shady act. I realize OSU isn't the only school to do it, but every school surely doesn't. Also, other schools doing it is no excuse either. "Yeah we're unethical, but so is everyone else!" hardly sounds like a defense. You think no one had an idea he was leaving? He officially accepted a job the day after signing day. You think he never told his boss? There are unconfirmed reports a beat writer in Cbus knew but sat on the info. I'm guessing they knew, but never told Weber I've said twice it's not unethical and the report I linked and Erie Dawg reiterated plainly (and simply) writes it's stupid to think other wise. Are you choosing just not to read that? Yes, I could very easily believe no one knew. If you're looking for another job and you tell your current boss that's really God damn stupid. More power to you if you do but the real world is gonna be a kick in the ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 So woodie I take it you agree with this since you glossed it over? I missed this the first time. My bad. You're misunderstanding the difference between a Medical Redshirt and a Medical Hardship. A Medical Redshirt is what Gardner got. This is given when a player is injured and unable to play the majority of a season. It allows them to gain that year of eligibility back. A medical hardship is what Saban is famous for abusing. These are supposed to be used when a player has a career ending injury. It releases a player from the program so it doesn't count against the scholarship count, and makes it so the player can't play D1 anywhere else. They are two fundamentally different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 But it benifited UM by doing so because we both know Gardner isn't a pro prospect on anyone's radar. And by simply doing so it extended his eligibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Woody Hayes > MLD Woody the FAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 I'm posting quotes from Weber's HS coach at Cass Tech. These negative feelings towards OSU and Meyer aren't isolated to Michigan fans right now. Defend your oversigning. Try to defend the seemingly excessive medical hardships. But good luck trying to defend straight up lying to a recruit. 1.I think these feelings are a totally relegated to a small area in michigan, I read a lot of sports and I'm not seeing any "this is an outrage" type articles out there from the major outlets. 2. The article that Jrb posted again pointed out things that you want to overlook and basicaly points out there is not really anything to defend. Excessive medical hardships? What exact number is excessive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Michigan State is far superior in terms of football program and hot bangable chicks. All the Chinese and weirdos probably go to UM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Thought of the day - What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive! - Sir Walter Scott — Coach Harbaugh (@CoachJim4UM) February 7, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 2. The article that Jrb posted again pointed out things that you want to overlook and basicaly points out there is not really anything to defend. Excessive medical hardships? What exact number is excessive? 2. There is no set number really. In Saban's case, it was obvious. He had 12 over a 4 year period. The SEC average over that time was less than 2. Tressel only had like 4 his entire OSU career. And yes, these recent ones by Meyer may be legitimate. But, they look shady, there is no denying that. You oversign, and then 3 guys leave, two of which played just weeks ago. It looks like 1 is very legitimate, 1 is probably ok, and 1 is iffy at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 But it benifited UM by doing so because we both know Gardner isn't a pro prospect on anyone's radar. And by simply doing so it extended his eligibility. Gardner got hurt his Fr or So year I believe, he wasn't starting yet. Also, he came in as a very highly rated recruit, had a great start, and then we broke him with constant coaching changes, a position changes, and physical abuse. At one point, he was definitely still a prospective pro QB. You don't seem to understand the difference between a Medical Hardship and a Medical Redshirt. A Medical Hardship only really benefits to team. It frees up a roster spot and causes the player to not be able to play D1 football again. A Medical Redshirt benefits the team and the player. It allows the player to get another year of eligibility back that he lost while injured. It doesn't hurt the player in any way. Get it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Tanner, Bogard and Reeves - the latter two have apparently suffered setbacks in rehabbing multiple ACL tears. I was very excited about Bogard especially. Plus you have the rumored pending transfer of Brionte' Dunn and another (sources) unnamed player(s) for lack of PT, then the recruiting numbers fall in line. So my direct response to Woody: if you see shit like this happening EVERY year - Where we place multiple kids with grey-shirts, medical hardship and excessively sign 30+ kids, and flat out not renew a scholarship,basically all the shit Saban does, then I'll be concerned. AFAIK this is the first year in a long while something of this nature has occurred with this football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 2. There is no set number really. In Saban's case, it was obvious. He had 12 over a 4 year period. The SEC average over that time was less than 2. Tressel only had like 4 his entire OSU career. And yes, these recent ones by Meyer may be legitimate. But, they look shady, there is no denying that. You oversign, and then 3 guys leave, two of which played just weeks ago. It looks like 1 is very legitimate, 1 is probably ok, and 1 is iffy at best. So it wasn't excessive, just using Word play to blow it out of proportion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Gardner got hurt his Fr or So year I believe, he wasn't starting yet. Also, he came in as a very highly rated recruit, had a great start, and then we broke him with constant coaching changes, a position changes, and physical abuse. At one point, he was definitely still a prospective pro QB. You don't seem to understand the difference between a Medical Hardship and a Medical Redshirt. A Medical Hardship only really benefits to team. It frees up a roster spot and causes the player to not be able to play D1 football again. A Medical Redshirt benefits the team and the player. It allows the player to get another year of eligibility back that he lost while injured. It doesn't hurt the player in any way. Get it now? I got it the first, second, and now. And guess what the outcome is the same as what I've said. The guy was never a hot piece of ass other than a highly touted recruit. You won't find anywhere that says he was being sought after by NFL teams. He was a gimmicky qb that didn't live up to his hype. But he was better than the guy riding the pine so Brady hoke tagged him because he didn't recruit anyone better either. It Don't take a genius to figure out why it happened Woody, but then again it did happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I got it the first, second, and now. And guess what the outcome is the same as what I've said. The guy was never a hot piece of ass other than a highly touted recruit. You won't find anywhere that says he was being sought after by NFL teams. He was a gimmicky qb that didn't live up to his hype. But he was better than the guy riding the pine so Brady hoke tagged him because he didn't recruit anyone better either. It Don't take a genius to figure out why it happened Woody, but then again it did happen. ummm.... I really think you're having a hard time understanding the difference between a medical redshirt and a medical hardship. I am not sure what you are trying to equate here, as you attempt to bring down Michigan to OSUs level. Gardner was hurt for the majority of the season his freshman year. As such, he was granted a medical hardship to gain an extra year of eligibility. This helped the team, and the player. A medical hardship is there to help the team free up a scholarship, and as such, can be abused to cut under-performing players. Whatever you think about Gardner as a QB, or what other options we had at QB, is irrelevant. This conversation started because you did not understand the difference between a medical redshirt and a medical hardship. Now you just seem to be taking shots at Gardner, like that will somehow prove your point, or at least distract from the fact you were dead wrong to begin with, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Nope not wrong I'm just able to understand matters better that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 So it wasn't excessive, just using Word play to blow it out of proportion. 3 in a season can be excessive. Really, if it is ever done in an attempt to free up roster space, and it isn't in the athletes best interest, it is excessive. By oversigning and then doing what Urban did, it gives off the feeling it might be excessive. But like I've said, I realizes the coaches know more than we do about which players will be transferring or whatever, and how many spots they really have. But doing it consistently, that is fishy. I believe OSU has signed more players in the last 4 years than any other B1G school. Add that to the medical hardships on some of these guys, and it means OSU will be watched a little closer. Not that anything will happen, the NCAA is completely spineless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Nope not wrong I'm just able to understand matters better that's all. This whole conversation started with you saying we "put in the medical hardship papers" for Devin Gardner hahaha. How can you "understand matters better" if you don't even understand the difference between a medical redshirt and a medical hardship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Tanner, Bogard and Reeves - the latter two have apparently suffered setbacks in rehabbing multiple ACL tears. I was very excited about Bogard especially. Plus you have the rumored pending transfer of Brionte' Dunn and another (sources) unnamed player(s) for lack of PT, then the recruiting numbers fall in line. So my direct response to Woody: if you see shit like this happening EVERY year - Where we place multiple kids with grey-shirts, medical hardship and excessively sign 30+ kids, and flat out not renew a scholarship,basically all the shit Saban does, then I'll be concerned. AFAIK this is the first year in a long while something of this nature has occurred with this football team. Two of those players were listed as active participants in the title game. I am just questioning how they could be healthy enough to play then, but now a few weeks later (after signing 6 more guys than there was space for) those 2 aren't healthy enough to play football ever again. I think Dunn will transfer. If more guys go to YSU they'll just dominate. I agree, this stuff does happen across the country every year. A lot of coaches that aren't dirty in any way go over by 2 or 3 guys because they know other players will be leaving the team soon. But OSU has consistently signed a lot of players the last few classes (this being the most I believe). Nothing that breaks the rules yet, but enough to keep an eye on them. I also agree that Saban is the king at this slimey shit. I wish he would get hit with sanctions at some point, but never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I've said twice it's not unethical and the report I linked and Erie Dawg reiterated plainly (and simply) writes it's stupid to think other wise. Are you choosing just not to read that? Yes, I could very easily believe no one knew. If you're looking for another job and you tell your current boss that's really God damn stupid. More power to you if you do but the real world is gonna be a kick in the ass. I did read that. I still think it is unethical. Oversigning (whether committed here or not) is unethical because you are toying with the lives or 17 year olds. There is a good chance that to make room, someone gets an offer pulled, or forced to gray shirt, or current players get pushed off of the team. There is a reason some conferences have rules designed to limit this behavior. Excessive medical hardships are also obviously unethical. You're pushing a kid off of your team and basically ending their career because they have underperformed and you need roster space. Whether or not that happened here, I am just saying it is unethical. Finally, recruiting a player while pushing how honest and trustworthy you are, only to take another job as soon as he signs is not unethical in itself. If you had any indication that this new job may be a possibility, but said nothing to the recruit, then it is unethical. You are basically lying to their face, pulling a bait and switch. I have a hard time believing this HB coach knew nothing about the Bear's job until the day after signing day. By knowing he was taking it, or even might take it, but still saying nothing to Weber, that is pretty scummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 But don't worry, OSU RB coach wasn't the only team/guy to do this. UCLA's DC did a bait and switch, and so did Texas' DL coach. Actions like that get you banned from recruiting at certain HSs by the HCs there. Like OSU from Cass Tech. Another thing that can do that, Petrino pulling a scholarship offer from a kid days before signing day because he had less space than he thought. Now that kid's HS coach has banned him from recruiting at that HS. That is worse than what OSU did to Weber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Lol @ michigan. Their recruiting class was even smaller than woodys pecker, tiny. Its an embarassment of riches at OSU and michigan cant even recruit a full class with hairball coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Who signs to be coached up by a running back coach? Urban Meyer is the coach. That's all anyone should need. Besides guys leave for the nfl if they get that opportunity. That's where football coaches and players dream of going. I'm not sure where weber ' s hard feelings are coming from but if he wants to decommit and go play for that hot mess up north so be it. One running back isn't going to break OSU'S back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 LOL @ Michigan for losing Mike Weber to a superior football team. What a dumpster Fire Harbaugh has created Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Who signs to be coached up by a running back coach? Urban Meyer is the coach. That's all anyone should need. Besides guys leave for the nfl if they get that opportunity. That's where football coaches and players dream of going. I'm not sure where weber ' s hard feelings are coming from but if he wants to decommit and go play for that hot mess up north so be it. One running back isn't going to break OSU'S back "Who signs to be coached up by a running back coach" ------ .......... a runningback....... He'd interact with his position coach more than Urban. The issues here isn't that the RB Coach left for the NFL. The issues is that he knew he was going to (or at the very least knew it was a strong possibility) but didn't tell Weber. He preached honesty and trust, just to pull a bait and switch as soon as Weber signed his LOI. And like I mentioned earlier, this wasn't the only example of a bait and switch this year. So you aren't alone. http://recruiting.blog.ajc.com/2015/02/08/breaking-roquan-smiths-coach-blasts-the-critics/?ecmp=ajc_social_twitter_2014_sfp Weber signed a LOI, this is a binding legal document for him to the University. It isn't as easy as "just decommitting". OSU needs to grant him a release, and they can dictate where he is allowed to sign with. I also believe he'll have to sit out a year if he goes to another D1 school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 You commit to the university not a single coach who will he completely irrelevant in his mind once he's on the field trouncing opponents. I guess I just don't see the big deal and I'm also guessing if it were michigan instead of ohio state you'd also fail to see the big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 You commit to the university not a single coach who will he completely irrelevant in his mind once he's on the field trouncing opponents. I guess I just don't see the big deal and I'm also guessing if it were michigan instead of ohio state you'd also fail to see the big deal. So the runningback's coach will be completely irrelevant to the runningback.... uuhhh.... ok No matter the school, I think it would be a dick move. Again, it isn't that the coach left, it is that they deliberately mislead him in an attempt to get him to sign. Coaches come and go all of the time, but if a coach is preaching honesty and trust, he should let a recruit know that he's going to be taking a new job. From the article I posted. Roquan Smith's HS coach “I’m reading a lot of these websites, and you’ve got people on there saying things like ‘A kid shouldn’t commit to a coach; he should commit to a school,’” Macon County coachLarry Harold said. “I just want to tell those people this, because maybe they don’t know: If you’ve never played sports or anything like that, you are more than just a coach to these kids. You’re their dad, their mom, and their extended family. You’re everything to these kids. So when they’re going to get recruited by the next coach, to find the person who is going to be charge of the next four years of their life, they are looking for the same things.” “When you get recruited by Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama, Oregon and all these top schools – when you go visit them, they all have nice football facilities. They have good academic centers and beautiful campuses. Everything is basically the same everywhere. So what separates them? You know what the coaches sell those kids on? ‘That it’s about the people and the relationships.’ That’s all they sell the kids on. They all say the same things. If you had a recruiter sitting here, he’d say, ‘Our school is just like everybody else, but it’s all about the people and relationships with us.’ Macon County coach Larry Harold (AJC) “So how can these guys (college coaches) talk about the people and the relationships — and then you get these kids signed and then you bail on them at the first time you get the opportunity? Look at all these stories after signing day. “You can’t tell me that these head coaches aren’t telling these assistants that they know are leaving – don’t tell anybody until after signing day and then we’ll announce it. That’s deception and that dishonesty. And, most importantly, it’s not fair to the kids.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 This whole conversation started with you saying we "put in the medical hardship papers" for Devin Gardner hahaha. How can you "understand matters better" if you don't even understand the difference between a medical redshirt and a medical hardship? like I said before I understand completely, but it obvious you are just being a dumbass if your still stuck on making sure I understand the difference between m.r. and m.h. you know very well that they extended his time and was shady because michigan had no one to take the reigns at Qb. why? Because The recruiting by michigan has been shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 like I said before I understand completely, but it obvious you are just being a dumbass if your still stuck on making sure I understand the difference between m.r. and m.h. you know very well that they extended his time and was shady because michigan had no one to take the reigns at Qb. why? Because The recruiting by michigan has been shit. Hahahahahahaha, holy shit this is funny. Look at your very first post about this. "I think putting in medical hardship papers for Devin Gardner was shady of michigan also." You clearly didn't understand the difference between a medical hardship and a medical redshirt. If you did, you wouldn't have typed what I just showed above haha Even ignoring the fact you don't have a basic understanding of what you're talking about, calling a medical redshirt "shady" in an attempt to bring Michigan down to OSUs level is fucking laughable. There is nothing "shady" about a medical redshirt. A player gets hurt for most of a year, he loses the ability to play for that year. A medical redshirt grants a player that year of eligibility back. It is used by every school across the country on a regular basis. It benefits the player and the school. There is nothing "shady" about that. You are trying make it look like Michigan helping a player get a year of eligibility back is "shady" because we could use the QB help? ahahahhaha.... you might just want to stop. I know a lot of you are full on "head in the sand, OSU is god" type of fans, but this is ridiculous. Look, this started with you not having a base level understanding of what you were talking about, and now you're just grasping at straws to bring Michigan down to OSUs level. It isn't happening man. Just save face and call it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erie Dawg Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hahahahahahaha, holy shit this is funny. Look at your very first post about this. "I think putting in medical hardship papers for Devin Gardner was shady of michigan also." You clearly didn't understand the difference between a medical hardship and a medical redshirt. If you did, you wouldn't have typed what I just showed above haha Even ignoring the fact you don't have a basic understanding of what you're talking about, calling a medical redshirt "shady" in an attempt to bring Michigan down to OSUs level is fucking laughable. There is nothing "shady" about a medical redshirt. A player gets hurt for most of a year, he loses the ability to play for that year. A medical redshirt grants a player that year of eligibility back. It is used by every school across the country on a regular basis. It benefits the player and the school. There is nothing "shady" about that. You are trying make it look like Michigan helping a player get a year of eligibility back is "shady" because we could use the QB help? ahahahhaha.... you might just want to stop. I know a lot of you are full on "head in the sand, OSU is god" type of fans, but this is ridiculous. Look, this started with you not having a base level understanding of what you were talking about, and now you're just grasping at straws to bring Michigan down to OSUs level. It isn't happening man. Just save face and call it a day. like I said before I understand completely, but it obvious you are just being a dumbass if your still stuck on making sure I understand the difference between m.r. and m.h. you know very well that they extended his time and was shady because michigan had no one to take the reigns at Qb. why? Because The recruiting by michigan has been shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 and my previous post still stands. I accept your surrender. I'm out now. Try better next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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