OldBrownsFan Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12034411/bernie-kosar-blames-uneducated-browns-front-office-johnny-manziels-cleveland-field-struggles I am a huge fan of Bernie Kosar. When he speaks I listen. He knows the game of football and the NFL. One of the things he spoke of is our former quarterback coach Dowell Loggains forwarding the Manziel "wreck this league" text message to Haslam, Farmer and Pettine and how out of line he was for doing it. Loggains has now been let go. Another point Bernie brought up wihich I have seen with other NFL teams and not just the Browns is too much emphasis on getting a QB who will come in and turn around a team. It doesn't work that way. You have to have enough talent to go along with the QB. Bernie seemed to be spot on with saying personnel in the Browns need to stay in their own lanes and focusing on their own tasks. The text gate investigation seems to bear that out. A point Bernie has made previously and I agree with 100 percent is having a coach that hates to lose so much they will spend whatever time and do what it takes in preparations for a game to win. I think we have that coach in Pettine myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I think Bernie is a disgruntled unemployed drunk. Had problems getting along with the coach when he was playing and squandered huge amounts of money in bad business deals. He's speaking of a situation of which he has absolutely no first-hand knowledge. I'll bet dollars to dog shit if the Cleveland Browns had offered him a lucrative position he'd be singing a much sweeter tune. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Exactly. No qb can step into the Browns' situation with the lack of talent around him. The Browns are getting there, but our wr corps is lagging way, way behind the other three teams in their division, and don't have the legit depth in case of injuries. The Browns must have a star quality wr... in this draft - that's the first round. White/Strong... and maybe another small school kid talented enough to make the step up to the NFL in a later round. It's a draft deep in olinemen. and I'm serious about Cole Manhart, the small school OT in the later rounds.... I won't be surprised if they trade down a bit and pick up an extra second round pick in this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 No, Kosar may have had his problems with alcohol and prescription pain killers... but he didn't get along with an asshole HC who screwed up so much he lost the entire team? Yeah, he changed the assholes' play, and it went for a touchdown. Buttichump screwed up his first hc gig, and wanted out to start over somewhere else with more talent. Plain and simple. That's how he treated the media, and his players, and the fans. Besides, Kosar knows his football, and was one of, if not the smartest qbs to ever play the game. Bashing him for his personal problems doesn't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2014/12/tim-couch-bernie-kosar-cleveland-browns-johnny-manziel/ This is not just Bernie saying some of these things. Couch brings up another point which is spot on and huge. Continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 No, Kosar may have had his problems with alcohol and prescription pain killers... but he didn't get along with an asshole HC who screwed up so much he lost the entire team? Yeah, he changed the assholes' play, and it went for a touchdown. Buttichump screwed up his first hc gig, and wanted out to start over somewhere else with more talent. Plain and simple. That's how he treated the media, and his players, and the fans. Besides, Kosar knows his football, and was one of, if not the smartest qbs to ever play the game. Bashing him for his personal problems doesn't change that. Praising him for knowledge he apparently doesn't possess doesn't change anything either. If he has football knowledge anywhere near the mythical proportions attributed to him it seems like he'd have a successful career on somebody's coaching staff. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I think Bernie is a disgruntled unemployed drunk. Had problems getting along with the coach when he was playing and squandered huge amounts of money in bad business deals. He's speaking of a situation of which he has absolutely no first-hand knowledge. I'll bet dollars to dog shit if the Cleveland Browns had offered him a lucrative position he'd be singing a much sweeter tune. WSS I don't see this as sour grapes at all but it comes from a guy who loves the Browns and is frustrated like many of us are about the history of the club since 99. If we want to improve we should put everything on the table and learn from past mistakes. I think continuity has been a huge problem and I hope to see Haslam, Farmer and Pettine working together for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Praising him for knowledge he apparently doesn't possess doesn't change anything either. If he has football knowledge anywhere near the mythical proportions attributed to him it seems like he'd have a successful career on somebody's coaching staff. WSS Bernie has steadfastly said on numerous occasions that "He wants no coaching gig".. so put that Myth to rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comeonman Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Bernie has steadfastly said on numerous occasions that "He wants no coaching gig".. so put that Myth to rest.Do you know if he has ever been offered one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Do you know if he has ever been offered one? You will never be offered anything when you publicly state you want no part of it. Even if he were to change his mind, that ship has sailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 As to his points, he's "spot" on. I'm convinced that had we drafted Luck a couple years ago our fortunes would be only somewhat better all other things remaining the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryfine Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Hi . Without a doubt Bernard Kosar was and is the smartest QB to ever play the game. He had no skills but won games with his brain. Why he never was offered a head coaching or GM position with us is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Concussion free advice--Did you even watch JM at Texas AM? Our scouts got this all wrong from never called a play from a huddle, but the kid won a Heisman and had NCAA talent and we had Weeddone on Bench from home Lions game(over the shoulder heive) and Hoyer with a tore up knee. This was Haslem and Farmer deciding butts in season tickets and jersey sales over what JM may do in NFL period.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 If Bernie Kosar had any football credibility he'd be coaching somewhere cause God knows he could use the money. If you have a good QB and no skill players around him the team won't succeed and if you have good skill players and no QB to utilize them the team won't succeed. That theory isn't new. The problem is and always will be drafting a franchise QB is a VERY difficult thing. If it were easy 5+ teams wouldn't be doing it every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I think Bernie is a disgruntled unemployed drunk. Had problems getting along with the coach when he was playing and squandered huge amounts of money in bad business deals. He's speaking of a situation of which he has absolutely no first-hand knowledge. I'll bet dollars to dog shit if the Cleveland Browns had offered him a lucrative position he'd be singing a much sweeter tune. WSS +1,000,000,000,000,000,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul warfield Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2014/12/tim-couch-bernie-kosar-cleveland-browns-johnny-manziel/ This is not just Bernie saying some of these things. Couch brings up another point which is spot on and huge. Continuity. That other ohio team has continuity but is only marginally better than us..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 That other ohio team has continuity but is only marginally better than us..... Does success bring continuity or does continuity bring success? I think you hire the best people you can find and give them enough time to prove themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Do you know if he has ever been offered one? he probably wrecked any chance at a team job? wasnt he with on the preseason tv / radio side? (and with some badly timed drunken on air episodes that came off as bad publicity} was fired or let go? Was this back when the walrus ran the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 he probably wrecked any chance at a team job? wasnt he with on the preseason tv / radio side? (and with some badly timed drunken on air episodes that came off as bad publicity} was fired or let go? Was this back when the walrus ran the team? I liked listening to Kosar doing color commentary on the preseason games. It was his knowledge of the game that impressed me. He said some things he shouldn't have about some Rams players in one game but I don't know too many people who do live on air broadcasts that don't say things from time to time they shouldn't. Bernie probably burnt his bridge behind him with talking about the culture of losing. I'm glad he said what he said, at least getting people to evaluate past mistakes this club has made. I looked at what he said more as constructive criticism from a guy who loves the Browns than any kind of disgruntled employee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 If Bernie Kosar had any football credibility he'd be coaching somewhere cause God knows he could use the money. If you have a good QB and no skill players around him the team won't succeed and if you have good skill players and no QB to utilize them the team won't succeed. That theory isn't new. The problem is and always will be drafting a franchise QB is a VERY difficult thing. If it were easy 5+ teams wouldn't be doing it every year. Bernie has said himself.. "he has no problem generating(making money).. So.. I don't think he really needs it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Bernie has said himself.. "he has no problem generating(making money).. So.. I don't think he really needs it" Here's the quote, "I'm great at making money," he told the Miami Herald in July, 2009. "And as we've found out, I'm great at spending it. What I'm not great at is managing it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitchTits Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Praising him for knowledge he apparently doesn't possess doesn't change anything either. If he has football knowledge anywhere near the mythical proportions attributed to him it seems like he'd have a successful career on somebody's coaching staff. WSS While it is possible you are correct about Kosar, there are a myriad of reasons that prevent a QB from having a good coaching career. Maybe he doesn't want to move from his home, maybe he wants to be affiliated with the Browns only. Maybe some of his personal issues have scared teams off. Doesn't mean he has a lack of football knowledge. Although, it also could mean other teams thinks he has a lack of football knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Praising him for knowledge he apparently doesn't possess doesn't change anything either. If he has football knowledge anywhere near the mythical proportions attributed to him it seems like he'd have a successful career on somebody's coaching staff. WSS Maybe it was widely known Bernie had a drinking problem, and teams didn't want him for that reason? I'll tend to believe Nickers- if you really want a coaching gig- there's ways to get one. Bernie has said himself.. "he has no problem generating(making money).. So.. I don't think he really needs it" Yeah- I would hazard a guess he's getting a nice cut of the action at the restaurant he put his name on at the Northfield Racino. BTW- if you're ever in town it's a quality place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Please. Nickers says no one offered him a coaching job because he commented once, possibly while sober, that he didn't want to coach. For the most brilliant football man in America that's an odd decision no? And it would seem his agent at some point might say to him, Bernie you're broke and the so-and-so team is looking for an offensive coordinator what do you say? I agree with the last paragraph of Tommy's post. It would be nice to find a spot somewhere for him but I fear it might appear forced. I certainly understand the Homer ism around here but it's embarrassing to pretend he's a genius. Ask yourself what would happen if Johnny Manziel refused to run the plays coach Mike wanted and then punched the coach or pushed him in a tunnel? Would you assume it's because he's smarter than the coach? Actually I bet some of you guys would if Brian Hoyer did it. I don't know what job you guys think Bernie could do that would make the team better. And if nothing else he doesn't know anybody in the organization and has no clue what's going on in Berea. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Say what you will about Bernie Kosar I can assure you when he played for the Browns if the Browns were down 23-0 you would not see him on the sidelines with a big old grin on his face joking with the offensive coordinator like we did this year with Johnny Manziel. I don't think you would see that behavior from most NFL teams but it seems like it is no big deal in Cleveland. Culture of losing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Looks like your boy Brian Hoyer is telling a pretty funny joke. So do you hate them both? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Looks like your boy Brian Hoyer is telling a pretty funny joke. So do you hate them both? WSS Hoyer is not my boy. He was the best we had at the time because we made a huge mistake in drafting Manziel (and I don't think I am going out on a limb saying that). I don't hate either of these guys and if JM gets help in treatment and comes back focused and gives 100 percent I will be pulling for him. There is no doubt and JM admits himself he did not put in the effort he should have this year. If he gives 100 percent that is all we can ask for, just give us your best effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 How about we discus Kosar without the emotions involved? The drawing the play in the sand and disobeying Belichik is way overrated. It didn't prove anything. Kosar took a chance, rolled the dice and his skill, luck and the dynamics of that moment came together and the threw a touchdown. The takeaway from that moment depended on your point of view. Fans hated Bill so they believed it proved that Kosar knew more about football than the coach. If you were an NFL owner, executive or network official, that play, coupled with Kosar supposedly punching Belichik in the tunnel, and Bernie's defiance, insisting that he knew best, you came away with a very negative image of Bernie. Has Kosar been blacklisted because of that? Who knows, BUT.... WSS Steve is completely correct.... IF Kosar was so intelligent, the NFL surely would have had opportunities for him post Browns. I always believed that Kosar got a reputation for being the most intelligent QB because announcers could not with a straight face compliment his athletic game. They had to say something good about the guy, so they came up with some shit that nobody can really debate. In "The Drive" game... Kosar got the ball first in overtime. Where was his "play in the sand"? Where was his "brilliant audible ability" when he had the chance to burn a badly fatigued Denver defense and take the Browns to a SB? Sorry, the folklore about this guy's football smarts is totally bullshit. He was a little better than average QB with a good team around him and he played with a lot of heart. His legacy as a QB, outside of Cleveland, really is no more than a tree that fell in an uninhabited forest. Nobody is in awe of what the guy did. Again, nobody outside his crib. For a supposedly intelligent man, Kosar has done a shitload of stupid things, including squandering his "intelligent" money and not leaving something for a rainy day. Going on television drunk probably was bad enough, but the real final straw for him was his behavior afterwards. Instead of admitting he was an alcoholic, certainly no sin, he made the biggest ass out of himself that he could have. He blamed his drunkenness on head injuries and THEN listed his head trauma doctor as Jim (Ron?) Sponaugle................a fucking shyster who runs a detox center. C'mon, how stupid can you get? Can't you just see it now.......... a loved one has a serious head injury in a car accident and you take him to............................... A DETOX CENTER? I feel bad for Kosar. He still is more a Brown than any of the assholes in the FO. As bad off as he is, I wish they could find a plce for him. I think the pride of being part of the Browns would do a lot for his self esteem. But alas, the Browns are not in business to help Kosar. As such, the poor guy really is fucked. If Kosar is such a loser with no brains or athletic abiltiy....just how in the hell did the guy get us to those AFC championship games? It sure as hell wasn't Marty's prevent defense. Sometimes I have to wonder when some of you old guys are going to quit smoking weed. It's obviuosly true what they told us 40 years ago....it causes brain damage and memory loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I think the Browns history proves itself. They have an attitude just like you in which nobody is welcome in the organization unless they have nothing but 100% positive things to say about the Cleveland Browns, just like most of your posts, reality is a four letter word. Yes I suppose that's true. So most of us aren't eager to hear negative and self serving prattling from antagonistic and uninform sources? That's quite a revelation douche. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas-cowboys/post/_/id/4722154/cowboys-have-leaned-on-backup-qbs-before In 1993, the Cleveland Browns cut QB Bernie Kosar for "diminishing skills." The Cowboys, led by coach Jimmy Johnson, signed Kosar two days later – and four days later he delivered a 20-15 Dallas win against the Phoenix Cardinals. With Aikman out (hamstring) and the offense sluggish under backup Jason Garrett, Johnson turned to Kosar. Kosar completed 13 of 21 passes for 199 yards and a touchdown. A week later, he made his only Cowboys start, a 27-14 loss to the Falcons. He completed 22 of 39 passes for 186 yards and two touchdowns. The Cowboys would lose only one more game that season – the famous ice game on Thanksgiving against the Miami Dolphins – before winning Super Bowl XXVIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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