AFC North Free Agency Scoreboard

[Tour2ma]

First... when I read "usually" it means majority of the time to me... that is why I disagreed. If you're meaning plurality, then I have little issue with that.

 

I think the current Seattle team is an example of a team that has been forced to dip into FA because they were too successful developing players... and they have not even locked up their franchise QB as yet. Once they do that, they will see even more talent leave to get paid.

 

Chip Kelly's approach is just strange, period... whether there's genius in his brand of oddity is TBD.

[Vagitron]

First... when I read "usually" it means majority of the time to me... that is why I disagreed. If you're meaning plurality, then I have little issue with that.

 

I think the current Seattle team is an example of a team that has been forced to dip into FA because they were too successful developing players... and they have not even locked up their franchise QB as yet. Once they do that, they will see even more talent leave to get paid.

 

Chip Kelly's approach is just strange, period... whether there's genius in his brand of oddity is TBD.

Seattle hasn't really dipped into fa to replace players lost though, unless I'm really missing who they have signed. Graham was just a major upgrade and they did sign Rubin but they aren't going nuts. I'd say that's not a good example.

[Unsympathetic]

Gresham would be a good value pickup.. Nowhere near Clay or Cameron money, closer to Bowe's contract.. but still a mismatch for a LB.

[The Gipper]

Are you really ranking free agency activity?

Yes, this is a sports talk/football forum. Of course we rank free agency....as does every network that covers football.

 

The steelers almost never play in fa.

So what?

 

We signed moats, McCain was not our best corner this past season Gay was and Williams is the perfect compliment to Bell. We extended Ben and just signed Harrison.

So? Do you have a point? We have already pointed out those moves (not the BR thing....because he was not a FA)(if McCain was not best, who was)

 

The Steelers build through the draft. Teams that build through fa lose for a reason. Name a team that has gone nuts in fa that has won anything recently worth discussing.

The New England Patriots have been fairly active in FA during their run.

As long as they have Brady, and as long as the Steelers have BR....anything either of them does in the draft of FA is side salad, not main course.

 

Signing a ton of players in fa usually indicates the team does a less than satisfactory job of drafting and developing players.

Or, it could mean that the players they drafted and developed became free agents and they had to replace them.

The Browns lost good players to FA that they signed and developed. Sheard, Skrine, Cameron, Rubin.

Browns have done as good or better at drafting and developing players than the Steelers have.....except for offensive skill players....where they keep getting unlucky. (you can go down the list....Quinn, Weeden, Richardson, Manziel etc.) Even when they get a good one.....Gordon....things get screwed up.

 

[The Gipper]

Name a team that has drafted so well that they couldn't keep all their players and instead of just restocking in the draft they turned to free agency. I don't disagree on the veteran precence or the final piece. My point was teams that go hard in free agency usually aren't very good or completely changing their system. Chip kelly is a strange example of exactly that process.

You think that "just restocking in the draft" is the only way to build a team? It isn't.

 

But, lets say a team tries to "restock" in a draft. The Browns, this year, would need to draft a cornerback, two defensive linemen and a tight end....all who would need to come in and contribute at a veteran level.

The Browns don't do that....a btw, neither do the Steelers. Are you going to draft guys to replace Keisel and McCain and whomever else you have lost? Not likely.

[The Gipper]

Seattle hasn't really dipped into fa to replace players lost though, unless I'm really missing who they have signed. Graham was just a major upgrade and they did sign Rubin but they aren't going nuts. I'd say that's not a good example.

So? Who do you think IS going "nuts".

The Browns certainly are not going "nuts". They have simply tried to replace some of the players they lost to FA.

Do you think that is a problem? I think it is called prudent.

[The Gipper]

Pittsburgh Steelers re-signing of James Harrison is the only move made by an AFCN team over the weekend.

[The Gipper]

Gresham would be a good value pickup.. Nowhere near Clay or Cameron money, closer to Bowe's contract.. but still a mismatch for a LB.

Gresham is undergoing surgery on his back this week. The Raiders seem to be the only team interested, but they won't bite until after surgery and rehab. I would not expect Gresham to sigh anywhere perhaps until training camp.

[Vagitron]

No one is "ranking" free agency in the way you are ranking it. Yes the Patriots sign players but they arent restocking their team. Year in and year out the Browns are very active in free agency because they've been missing in the draft. You just put a whole lot of stock in your own personal opinion. I hope the steelers rank dead last every year in fa signings.

[Tour2ma]

Seattle hasn't really dipped into fa to replace players lost though, unless I'm really missing who they have signed. Graham was just a major upgrade and they did sign Rubin but they aren't going nuts. I'd say that's not a good example.

You're correct... 2015 has not yet been demonstrative of my point, but this FA season is not over.

 

Look at Seattle's 2-year FA record though and get back to me...

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2014/seattle-seahawks/

[The Gipper]

No one is "ranking" free agency in the way you are ranking it.

Hell yes, they do. Every outlet gives you their winners and losers. Have you missed that?

 

Yes the Patriots sign players but they arent restocking their team.

Yes, in a way, they do. They "restock" the players they lose in free agency. The exact same thing the Browns do.

 

Year in and year out the Browns are very active in free agency because they've been missing in the draft.

What would you have them do? Stick with Brandon Weeden, Trent Richardson...Brady Quinn. Would you just let them lose a Josh Gordon to suspension and not try to sign any WRs? Would you have them lose 2 DL and not try to replace them? Or a TE or whatever position they lose a good player at?

The problem isn't being active in free agency....the problem is the "missing" on the draft picks.

So, when a team misses on a draft pick your approach would be to do nothing?

 

You just put a whole lot of stock in your own personal opinion.

Yes.....and so should you....because my opinions are very reasoned and mostly accurate.

 

I hope the steelers rank dead last every year in fa signings.

And if so, they will probably end up being a young....poor team in the long run. Right now your team has been propped up because they have had a Hall of Fame QB, a HOF DC, and have hit on a few good offensive skill players.

You have been LUCKY. Face it.

 

[The Gipper]

No action overnight...in fact I see only one FA transaction in the entire league in the last couple of days

[Vagitron]

 

 

No one is "ranking" free agency in the way you are ranking it.

Hell yes, they do. Every outlet gives you their winners and losers. Have you missed that?

 

Yes the Patriots sign players but they arent restocking their team.

Yes, in a way, they do. They "restock" the players they lose in free agency. The exact same thing the Browns do.

 

Year in and year out the Browns are very active in free agency because they've been missing in the draft.

What would you have them do? Stick with Brandon Weeden, Trent Richardson...Brady Quinn. Would you just let them lose a Josh Gordon to suspension and not try to sign any WRs? Would you have them lose 2 DL and not try to replace them? Or a TE or whatever position they lose a good player at?

The problem isn't being active in free agency....the problem is the "missing" on the draft picks.

So, when a team misses on a draft pick your approach would be to do nothing?

 

You just put a whole lot of stock in your own personal opinion.

Yes.....and so should you....because my opinions are very reasoned and mostly accurate.

 

I hope the steelers rank dead last every year in fa signings.

And if so, they will probably end up being a young....poor team in the long run. Right now your team has been propped up because they have had a Hall of Fame QB, a HOF DC, and have hit on a few good offensive skill players.

You have been LUCKY. Face it.

 

Lucky? The steelers passed on lacy to draft Bell. We drafted Brown and Sanders in the same draft. Mike Wallace in the 3rd. Martavis Bryant in the 4th. Markus Wheaton in the third. I would say its a little more than luck Gipper. The Steelers supplement occasional in fa. Mike Mitchell last season, Williams this season. The patriots do the same. The Browns fill 5-7 holes every damn season. Are you unlucky? Or do the browns just draft like sh.it?

 

Your opinions also aren't mostly accurate. You know dick outside the browns and even then your knowledge is rooted pre merger.

[The Gipper]

Lucky? The steelers passed on lacy to draft Bell.

Lacy has played as well as Bell. That would have likely been a wash

 

We drafted Brown and Sanders in the same draft. Mike Wallace in the 3rd. Martavis Bryant in the 4th. Markus Wheaton in the third. I would say its a little more than luck Gipper.

NO, its luck. Pure and simple. Those guys could have all turned out to be Brian Robiskie and Mohammed Massaquoi just as easily.

But, more accurately, the thing that has made it appear that they are so good is that they have BR throwing to them.

Mike Wallace went to Miami and was mediocre at best. And Sanders left for somewhere...and essentially disappeared.

 

 

The Steelers supplement occasional in fa. Mike Mitchell last season, Williams this season. The patriots do the same. The Browns fill 5-7 holes every damn season. Are you unlucky? Or do the browns just draft like sh.it?

So? You think the Steelers have some special magic at drafting? They don't. Their draft picks overall have been worse than the Browns when you look at their overall production. If the Browns fill some holes with FAs, then the Steelers fill holes with untested, unproven rookies.

But, yes, the Browns have drafted like shit....when it comes to first rounders lately....at least when it comes to offensive skill players. (Weeden's/TR etc)

(But they have drafted young good quality people....the Joe Haden's, Joe Thomas, Bitonio etc. etc.)

Your opinions also aren't mostly accurate. You know dick outside the browns and even then your knowledge is rooted pre merger.

My opinions are based on sound fact.....not blind piss and black ignorance and stupidity like yours.

You are clueless to the fact that having a Hall of Fame QB means just about everything in the NFL these days. Yes....it means the difference between 11-5 and 7-9. THAT is an accurate opinion.

[StinkHole]

 

Lucky? The steelers passed on lacy to draft Bell.

Lacy has played as well as Bell. That would have likely been a wash

 

We drafted Brown and Sanders in the same draft. Mike Wallace in the 3rd. Martavis Bryant in the 4th. Markus Wheaton in the third. I would say its a little more than luck Gipper.

NO, its luck. Pure and simple. Those guys could have all turned out to be Brian Robiskie and Mohammed Massaquoi just as easily.

But, more accurately, the thing that has made it appear that they are so good is that they have BR throwing to them.

Mike Wallace went to Miami and was mediocre at best. And Sanders left for somewhere...and essentially disappeared.

 

 

 

The Steelers supplement occasional in fa. Mike Mitchell last season, Williams this season. The patriots do the same. The Browns fill 5-7 holes every damn season. Are you unlucky? Or do the browns just draft like sh.it?

So? You think the Steelers have some special magic at drafting? They don't. Their draft picks overall have been worse than the Browns when you look at their overall production. If the Browns fill some holes with FAs, then the Steelers fill holes with untested, unproven rookies.

But, yes, the Browns have drafted like shit....when it comes to first rounders lately....at least when it comes to offensive skill players. (Weeden's/TR etc)

(But they have drafted young good quality people....the Joe Haden's, Joe Thomas, Bitonio etc. etc.)

Your opinions also aren't mostly accurate. You know dick outside the browns and even then your knowledge is rooted pre merger.

My opinions are based on sound fact.....not blind piss and black ignorance and stupidity like yours.

You are clueless to the fact that having a Hall of Fame QB means just about everything in the NFL these days. Yes....it means the difference between 11-5 and 7-9. THAT is an accurate opinion.

 

You have a good point about the Steelers draft. Jarvis Jones appears to be a fuckin bust...having to compete with a 37 year old James Harrison.

[Trolling for dick]

You have a good point about the Steelers draft. Jarvis Jones appears to be a fuckin bust...having to compete with a 37 year old James Harrison.

Kevin Colbert is 3rd in the league in % of players drafted that went to at least 1 Pro Bowl. The NFL Network just discussed it. That indicates something positive about his draft pick choices wouldn't you agree? This is especially telling considering they typically draft towards the end of every round, at least the back half. Your team typically drafts near the beginning of every round. Where do they rank?

[Trolling for dick]

 

Lucky? The steelers passed on lacy to draft Bell.

Lacy has played as well as Bell. That would have likely been a wash

 

We drafted Brown and Sanders in the same draft. Mike Wallace in the 3rd. Martavis Bryant in the 4th. Markus Wheaton in the third. I would say its a little more than luck Gipper.

NO, its luck. Pure and simple. Those guys could have all turned out to be Brian Robiskie and Mohammed Massaquoi just as easily.

But, more accurately, the thing that has made it appear that they are so good is that they have BR throwing to them.

Mike Wallace went to Miami and was mediocre at best. And Sanders left for somewhere...and essentially disappeared.

 

 

The Steelers supplement occasional in fa. Mike Mitchell last season, Williams this season. The patriots do the same. The Browns fill 5-7 holes every damn season. Are you unlucky? Or do the browns just draft like sh.it?

So? You think the Steelers have some special magic at drafting? They don't. Their draft picks overall have been worse than the Browns when you look at their overall production. If the Browns fill some holes with FAs, then the Steelers fill holes with untested, unproven rookies.

But, yes, the Browns have drafted like shit....when it comes to first rounders lately....at least when it comes to offensive skill players. (Weeden's/TR etc)

(But they have drafted young good quality people....the Joe Haden's, Joe Thomas, Bitonio etc. etc.)

Your opinions also aren't mostly accurate. You know dick outside the browns and even then your knowledge is rooted pre merger.

My opinions are based on sound fact.....not blind piss and black ignorance and stupidity like yours.

You are clueless to the fact that having a Hall of Fame QB means just about everything in the NFL these days. Yes....it means the difference between 11-5 and 7-9. THAT is an accurate opinion.

 

I'll try to be as repectful as I can while understanding you probably try in every post to incite Vag. You cannot continue to claim the Browns draft as well as the Steelers and expect to be taken seriously. It's common knowledge the Browns have not been very good in this department for a long time and it's verifiable. Until the Browns win the division or make the playoffs or hell...even finish with a winning record, you simply cannot argue that the Browns know what they're doing in the draft. Your argument that the Steelers have a HOF qb is obvious, but that doesn't guarantee anything. The Steelers have had Ben for 11 years. They've finished ahead of the Browns every year since 89 give or take. You seem like a smart guy Gipper, but damn you can be pig headed. The Browns have to earn something before you anoint them better than the Steelers at anything. They not better at anything or more talented. To say otherwise is just pure bias.

[The Gipper]

Kevin Colbert is 3rd in the league in % of players drafted that went to at least 1 Pro Bowl. The NFL Network just discussed it. That indicates something positive about his draft pick choices wouldn't you agree? This is especially telling considering they typically draft towards the end of every round, at least the back half. Your team typically drafts near the beginning of every round. Where do they rank?

If you are trying to say that some of the Browns drafting has sucked over the years, who is going to argue with that. Though I think if you took player by player, the Browns have pretty well held their own.

But the Vag seems to think that it is some kind of badge of honor that the the Steelers have not been that active in the FA market.

Of course that is a bunch of BS.

 

THE major, major, major draft choice you took that separates the two team boils down to one guy, taken 11 years ago.

[The Gipper]

I'll try to be as repectful as I can while understanding you probably try in every post to incite Vag. You cannot continue to claim the Browns draft as well as the Steelers and expect to be taken seriously.

Well, I can't take you seriously until you provide a detailed analysis of each and every drafted player that each team has made in say, the last 10 years.

I DID a roster analysis last year, and man for man...posititon by position....the Steelers had the LEAST talent in the entire AFCN.

 

It's common knowledge the Browns have not been very good in this department for a long time and it's verifiable.

Then verify it. Yes, it is easy to look at the first round picks over the last 3 years....but beyond that, once you have done your work, you may find that the Browns have done better in the lower rounds.

 

Until the Browns win the division or make the playoffs or hell...even finish with a winning record, you simply cannot argue that the Browns know what they're doing in the draft.

Your argument that the Steelers have a HOF qb is obvious, but that doesn't guarantee anything. The Steelers have had Ben for 11 years. They've finished ahead of the Browns every year since 89 give or take.

Hello!!! Now you are getting at it. YOU have a fucking Hall of Fame Quarterback. And that has made all the difference.

Tell you what.....I will trade Josh McCown for BR straight up.....and bet you that the Browns and Steelers records could have likely been reversed.

What have the Browns had at QB over the last 11 years? Shite. What have the Steelers had? An HOF Qb.

It really is that simple.

(I also don't believe you are right about the record since 1989...1999, yes, not sure about '89)

 

You seem like a smart guy Gipper, but damn you can be pig headed. The Browns have to earn something before you anoint them better than the Steelers at anything. They not better at anything or more talented. To say otherwise is just pure bias.

The last time I looked....the Browns were kicking the Steelers asses all over the field....even with the severe disadvantage at QB.

To sustain that type of play over the long term though The Browns need a QB as good or better as BR.....plain and simple. I will give you the edge at RB and WR....if you give me the QB.

For you to deny THAT fact is ignorant and pigheaded.

Like I said.....trade QBs and nothing else and see what happens. That is not a trade that any right thinking Steeler fan would make...because they would know the outcome.

[The Gipper]

Just to set the record straight, it is true that the Steelers have finished each season since 1989, Bernie Kosar's last year where he played without major injuries, with a better record than the Browns, except one year: 2007.

But I wouldn't beat my breast so strongly about that. The Browns have had an ownership mess first with Modell, then the Lerners, then Haslam who isn't starting out so great. So, it is like comparing a Baby Ruth Bar to a turd, which would you rather eat.

And on a few occasions....the Steelers weren't all that and a bag of chips...its just the Browns weren't any good either. One year the Steelers go 6-10....but the Browns are 5-11. Another year they are 6-10 but the Browns 2-14 (early in the "expansion" phase)

A couple of years the Steelers are 8-8 and the Browns like 5-11. Another year the Steelers were 7-9 and the Browns 6-10.

(and lets face it, the only time that the Browns had perhaps a comparable QB was when

 

But, right here, right now, position by position...in more cases the Browns have a better player manning the position than the Steelers.

The Steelers primary advantage is in the offensive skill positions....what with no Josh Gordon.

Quarterbacks matter.

[Trolling for dick]

If you are trying to say that some of the Browns drafting has sucked over the years, who is going to argue with that. Though I think if you took player by player, the Browns have pretty well held their own.

But the Vag seems to think that it is some kind of badge of honor that the the Steelers have not been that active in the FA market.

Of course that is a bunch of BS.

 

THE major, major, major draft choice you took that separates the two team boils down to one guy, taken 11 years ago.

No doubt, and I know Vag gets a little defensive. He just tries too hard sometimes when it's not necessary.

There are a few reasons the Steelers don't get too deep into FA. One is, it's a matter of principal. They've never been big players in terms of quantity outside of last year. It's just a matter of choice. Secondly, they've had a veteran team with some higher salaries over the last two decades. They've been restricted by the cap. That was by choice. They wanted to keep a successful team together the best they could. Cleveland would probably excercise the same restraint but until the team wins, constant change is inevitable. When the media questioned Kevin Colbert last year about their FA activity he responded that he was replacing players on an 8-8 team. That's just how it goes. If you average 5 wins a season over several years you're going to try harder to bring in better talent. That's where the Browns are. They have fans to keep happy. Somehow they have to catch lightening and get over the hump. That's tough when the other teams in the division are already there. My best bud is a Browns fan. We've been going at it for 25 years. Wouldn't trade him for the world. I've been lurking on here for years. Never chimed in because this board is too negative. Lots of hate. Don't have time for that. You'd probably attract some interesting opposing fans here if everybody kept things in perspective. It's just a game. That being said, I hope you guys experience winning a Super Bowl some time soon. It really takes the edge off.

[Vagitron]

 

 

Lucky? The steelers passed on lacy to draft Bell.

Lacy has played as well as Bell. That would have likely been a wash

 

We drafted Brown and Sanders in the same draft. Mike Wallace in the 3rd. Martavis Bryant in the 4th. Markus Wheaton in the third. I would say its a little more than luck Gipper.

NO, its luck. Pure and simple. Those guys could have all turned out to be Brian Robiskie and Mohammed Massaquoi just as easily.

But, more accurately, the thing that has made it appear that they are so good is that they have BR throwing to them.

Mike Wallace went to Miami and was mediocre at best. And Sanders left for somewhere...and essentially disappeared.

 

 

The Steelers supplement occasional in fa. Mike Mitchell last season, Williams this season. The patriots do the same. The Browns fill 5-7 holes every damn season. Are you unlucky? Or do the browns just draft like sh.it?

So? You think the Steelers have some special magic at drafting? They don't. Their draft picks overall have been worse than the Browns when you look at their overall production. If the Browns fill some holes with FAs, then the Steelers fill holes with untested, unproven rookies.

But, yes, the Browns have drafted like shit....when it comes to first rounders lately....at least when it comes to offensive skill players. (Weeden's/TR etc)

(But they have drafted young good quality people....the Joe Haden's, Joe Thomas, Bitonio etc. etc.)

Your opinions also aren't mostly accurate. You know dick outside the browns and even then your knowledge is rooted pre merger.

My opinions are based on sound fact.....not blind piss and black ignorance and stupidity like yours.

You are clueless to the fact that having a Hall of Fame QB means just about everything in the NFL these days. Yes....it means the difference between 11-5 and 7-9. THAT is an accurate opinion.

The Steelers are pretty good talent evaluators and they almost never miss in the first round. Stuart touched on Jarvis Jones after your reply and mentioned that he's a bust. He started as a rookie and was overwhelmed and rightfully so. The lebeau defense is complicated. He then lost his sophomore season to injury. His two year stats arent bad considering he's only played 21 games with the first being his rookie year. Harrison also wasn't brought in to split time with Jones. Harrison was brought back to platoon with Arthur Moats.

 

Now for you Gipper you mention Sanders and post as if you are 100% certain he went "somewhere else, and disappeared" and this is where you lose all credibility with me. You make these sort of statements on the regular. Sanders went to Denver. He only finished with 1404 yards receiving on 101 catches for 9 touchdowns. How is that something you missed?

Edit: and lacy isn't as good as bell.

[Trolling for dick]

 

I'll try to be as repectful as I can while understanding you probably try in every post to incite Vag. You cannot continue to claim the Browns draft as well as the Steelers and expect to be taken seriously.

Well, I can't take you seriously until you provide a detailed analysis of each and every drafted player that each team has made in say, the last 10 years.

I DID a roster analysis last year, and man for man...posititon by position....the Steelers had the LEAST talent in the entire AFCN.

 

Gipper, your analysis is based on what? Your opinion. You're a Browns fan. Here's my analysis. The Steelers finished higher in offense and defense and had a better record. And by the way it's the same thing almost every year. Now, you can offer your opinion on how superior the Browns are in talent and I will tell you to look at the scoreboard.

 

It's common knowledge the Browns have not been very good in this department for a long time and it's verifiable.

Then verify it. Yes, it is easy to look at the first round picks over the last 3 years....but beyond that, once you have done your work, you may find that the Browns have done better in the lower rounds.

 

Ok, this will be quick. The Browns draft higher than the Steelers every year. The Browns haven't finished a season higher than the Steelers since the 80's. The Browns had a chance to take future HOF qb in 2004 and instead chose Kellen Winslow. I could spend a lot of time looking up more examples but I don't have to. The record speaks for itself. Not to mention the stat in my first post above about Kevin Colbert being 3rd in the NFL in percentage of drafted players selected to the Pro Bowl. That's a verifiable statistic, just like winning percentage, just like the fact the Browns always get to pick before the Steelers do.

 

Until the Browns win the division or make the playoffs or hell...even finish with a winning record, you simply cannot argue that the Browns know what they're doing in the draft.

Your argument that the Steelers have a HOF qb is obvious, but that doesn't guarantee anything. The Steelers have had Ben for 11 years. They've finished ahead of the Browns every year since 89 give or take.

Hello!!! Now you are getting at it. YOU have a fucking Hall of Fame Quarterback. And that has made all the difference.

Tell you what.....I will trade Josh McCown for BR straight up.....and bet you that the Browns and Steelers records could have likely been reversed.

What have the Browns had at QB over the last 11 years? Shite. What have the Steelers had? An HOF Qb.

It really is that simple.

(I also don't believe you are right about the record since 1989...1999, yes, not sure about '89)

 

Gipper, you keep mentioning Ben Roethlisberger. The debate is about who drafts better. Cleveland had a chance to pick Ben Roethlisberger and they didn't. They took a tight end. It's a fact and goes against your argument. Matter of fact, every player Cleveland picks is chosen before the Steelers. If they were equal in their ability to draft good talent wouldn't the Browns be a better team?

 

You seem like a smart guy Gipper, but damn you can be pig headed. The Browns have to earn something before you anoint them better than the Steelers at anything. They not better at anything or more talented. To say otherwise is just pure bias.

The last time I looked....the Browns were kicking the Steelers asses all over the field....even with the severe disadvantage at QB.

 

The Browns destroyed the Steelers last year. It hurt, man did it hurt. The Steelers have owned them otherwise. I don't need to embelish that fact at all. It's just true. You can have that game last year. I can't present an argument that diminishes how badly the Browns kicked their butts. Just like you can't deny the Steelers have owned them otherwise.

 

To sustain that type of play over the long term though The Browns need a QB as good or better as BR.....plain and simple. I will give you the edge at RB and WR....if you give me the QB.

For you to deny THAT fact is ignorant and pigheaded.

 

Sure, I'll argue it. You don't need a qb as good or better than Ben. You need a team as good or better than the Steelers. Your team needs to score more points than the other team however they do it. The better qb doesn't always win. The better team does. Last year when the Browns beat the Steelers they were clearly the better team on that day. The rest of the season they clearly were not. And it wasn't always because your qb wasn't good enough. The Browns have beaten the Ravens and Bengals the last few years. Who had the better quarterback? In my opinion you need a balanced team to win in this league. If you're deficient on offense your defense better balance it out by being really good, and vice versa.

 

Like I said.....trade QBs and nothing else and see what happens. That is not a trade that any right thinking Steeler fan would make...because they would know the outcome.

 

Of course I wouldn't trade qb's Gipper. Ben's a great player. It's been a great ride with the dude. Hopefully we Steeler fans get another good 5 years out of him. Again, I hope your team figures it out. I live in Erie, PA. Back in the 80's, man let me tell you, it was awesome. Browns and Steelers fans couldn't even talk to each other up here, and there were a lot of both teams fans. Now it's different. It's not as much fun. It truly is the best rivalry in sports, with fans that dislike each other because they're so similar and so close to each other. I miss Browns week like it was in the 80's. That Browns win last year was a spark to the rivalry that it needed. It doesn't change who the better team is though. Their records head to head and overall prove that out.

 

[Trolling for dick]

Just to set the record straight, it is true that the Steelers have finished each season since 1989, Bernie Kosar's last year where he played without major injuries, with a better record than the Browns, except one year: 2007.

But I wouldn't beat my breast so strongly about that. The Browns have had an ownership mess first with Modell, then the Lerners, then Haslam who isn't starting out so great. So, it is like comparing a Baby Ruth Bar to a turd, which would you rather eat.

 

I'm not beating my chest. Just trying to provide some perspective. And I don't care what miriad excuses there are. It's just fact.

 

And on a few occasions....the Steelers weren't all that and a bag of chips...its just the Browns weren't any good either. One year the Steelers go 6-10....but the Browns are 5-11. Another year they are 6-10 but the Browns 2-14 (early in the "expansion" phase)

A couple of years the Steelers are 8-8 and the Browns like 5-11. Another year the Steelers were 7-9 and the Browns 6-10.

 

Again, I don't care what the exact records were. It's just a fact that the Steelers have been better every year since 89. Even the year they finished with the same record, look at what the head to head was.

 

(and lets face it, the only time that the Browns had perhaps a comparable QB was when

 

But, right here, right now, position by position...in more cases the Browns have a better player manning the position than the Steelers.

 

That's your opinion and you can't back it up with any verifiable evidence, only your opinion. And I respect that, it's your opinion. There's simply no objective evidence to support it. That being said, every team has strong players and weaker players. The Browns have some players that I'm sure are better at some positions. To say they're better at most is silly and can't logically be argued based on statistics or winning percentage.

 

 

The Steelers primary advantage is in the offensive skill positions....what with no Josh Gordon.

Quarterbacks matter.

 

Quarterbacks matter a lot. And the Steelers are superior at the skill positions. They also have a couple really good lineman and a couple weaker ones. Foster isn't very good. Gilbert is average at best. Beachum is good, Pouncey and Decastro are really good. Two of the best. I know you'll disagree, but you'll have to back it up with something. Give me rushing or passing yards, or points scored or something to make me believe your team is better at those positions. I'm asking respectfully...this is a Browns board.

[Vagitron]

Gipper doesn't back up his comments with anything. The rare occasion that he does its talking about the league before the NFL merger. Case in point his comment about Sanders leaving the Steelers and disappearing. Completely baseless because he has absolutely no idea about any team outside the Browns and even then his current base of knowledge is spotty at best.

[Trolling for dick]

I'll bet Gipper won't leave it at that. He'll bring me something. He's proud like that. And that's fine. We have to remember where we are. I'm trying not to instigate anyone too hard because I like friendly debate. I'm definitely not into the vicious name calling and yelling. We'll see how it goes.

[The Gipper]

No doubt, and I know Vag gets a little defensive. He just tries too hard sometimes when it's not necessary.

There are a few reasons the Steelers don't get too deep into FA. One is, it's a matter of principal. They've never been big players in terms of quantity outside of last year. It's just a matter of choice. Secondly, they've had a veteran team with some higher salaries over the last two decades. They've been restricted by the cap. That was by choice. They wanted to keep a successful team together the best they could. Cleveland would probably excercise the same restraint but until the team wins, constant change is inevitable. When the media questioned Kevin Colbert last year about their FA activity he responded that he was replacing players on an 8-8 team. That's just how it goes. If you average 5 wins a season over several years you're going to try harder to bring in better talent. That's where the Browns are. They have fans to keep happy. Somehow they have to catch lightening and get over the hump. That's tough when the other teams in the division are already there. My best bud is a Browns fan. We've been going at it for 25 years. Wouldn't trade him for the world. I've been lurking on here for years. Never chimed in because this board is too negative. Lots of hate. Don't have time for that. You'd probably attract some interesting opposing fans here if everybody kept things in perspective. It's just a game. That being said, I hope you guys experience winning a Super Bowl some time soon. It really takes the edge off.

Fair enough.

[The Gipper]

The Steelers are pretty good talent evaluators and they almost never miss in the first round. Stuart touched on Jarvis Jones after your reply and mentioned that he's a bust. He started as a rookie and was overwhelmed and rightfully so. The lebeau defense is complicated. He then lost his sophomore season to injury. His two year stats arent bad considering he's only played 21 games with the first being his rookie year. Harrison also wasn't brought in to split time with Jones. Harrison was brought back to platoon with Arthur Moats.

 

Now for you Gipper you mention Sanders and post as if you are 100% certain he went "somewhere else, and disappeared" and this is where you lose all credibility with me. You make these sort of statements on the regular. Sanders went to Denver. He only finished with 1404 yards receiving on 101 catches for 9 touchdowns. How is that something you missed?

Edit: and lacy isn't as good as bell.

No, I knew that Sanders went to Denver. I didn't know those exact numbers. All I did know is that it seems that he was lost among bigger names on that receiving corps....Julius Thomas, Denarius Thomas, Wes Welker.

And if Bell is better than Lacy, it is only by a cunt hair.

[The Gipper]

Gipper doesn't back up his comments with anything. The rare occasion that he does its talking about the league before the NFL merger. Case in point his comment about Sanders leaving the Steelers and disappearing. Completely baseless because he has absolutely no idea about any team outside the Browns and even then his current base of knowledge is spotty at best.

I have 1000 times more knowledge than you do about this league. I disseminate 1000 time more useful knowledge to the patrons here than you do.I back up my comments 100 times more often than you do.

You don't know shit about anybody BUT the Steelers.

As for Sanders....despite going elsewhere and having all those yards he was not much of a factor on that team.

 

And it is also a fact that you probably spent time googling Sanders numbers just to say that I didn't know my facts.

 

You are too big of a fucking coward to even try the Trivia which I put on here...of which 90% is non Browns related.

(and even if you did, I wouldn't trust you not to cheat and look up the answers)

[The Gipper]

I'll bet Gipper won't leave it at that. He'll bring me something. He's proud like that. And that's fine. We have to remember where we are. I'm trying not to instigate anyone too hard because I like friendly debate. I'm definitely not into the vicious name calling and yelling. We'll see how it goes.

You seem fair.....but I am not beyond vicious name calling and yelling when its warranted. With The Vagina it is warranted.

 

Like I said, I put out 1000 times more info and data about the NFL..past and present than most people here. If I get 999 data points correct and one wrong that assfuck comes on here saying "you don't know anything about the NFL....you got something wrong" Of course....I get a thing wrong now and then....but I still bat about .999.