gftChris Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32213482 Why was he shot? Why did the officer feel the need to shoot him - eight times - in the back as he ran away? We've had these discussions about police and institutional racism before and people will pretty much believe what they believe. But there certainly seems to be something wrong with the american police force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32213482 Why was he shot? Why did the officer feel the need to shoot him - eight times - in the back as he ran away? We've had these discussions about police and institutional racism before and people will pretty much believe what they believe. But there certainly seems to be something wrong with the american police force. Well the officer was indicted. What's the problem here? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted April 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Well the officer was indicted. What's the problem here? WSS The problem is that the guy is now dead. The fact that you don't see that as a problem might be an indicator of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 And are there any details about the traffic stop or the arrest or the fact the suspect was running from police? Or other races of the two people involved all that matter? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 The problem is that the guy is now dead. The fact that you don't see that as a problem might be an indicator of the problem. But I do see the problem. I've never supported gunning someone down while he was running away. That's a stupid accusation and you know it. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 The attempted planting of the taser is a nice touch. Does SC have the death penalty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 He was charged with murder. You're insinuating that all American Police have a shoot first mentality because you see a few headline news stories. Ferguson, MO was clearly not a shooting in the back. I have seen the video and think this Police Officer is in serious trouble. But lets rejoice, CNN can now have a 'breaking news' every ten minutes, showing Obama, Holder, Sharpton and Jackson speaking about this. And some more race riots and lootings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 He was charged with murder. You're insinuating that all American Police have a shoot first mentality because you see a few headline news stories. Ferguson, MO was clearly not a shooting in the back. I have seen the video and think this Police Officer is in serious trouble. But lets rejoice, CNN can now have a 'breaking news' every ten minutes, showing Obama, Holder, Sharpton and Jackson speaking about this. And some more race riots and lootings. Yeah there are over a million law enforcement officers and we get one clear cut murder carried out by a police officer. I am sure there are a few more that get through the cracks but even then those numbers are miniscule compared to the number of officers and the number of interactions they have with the public. I fully expect there to be riots and stupidity which is fucking lovely because I am visiting Charleston, SC in July. North Charleston is basically a ghetto that adjoins to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted April 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 The problem is not specific to this incident, or the demographic of the people involved. US police have killed about 100 people up to March of this year alone in the line of duty - that's more than one a day. Compare and contrast with other countries in the developed world. For example the stat that came out the other day about US police killing more people this year than UK police since about 1900. I'm not saying it's racism, discrimination or anything like that, although it maybe plays a part, but there seems to be a shoot first, think sometimes approach to law enforcement in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted April 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 He was charged with murder. You're insinuating that all American Police have a shoot first mentality because you see a few headline news stories. Ferguson, MO was clearly not a shooting in the back. I have seen the video and think this Police Officer is in serious trouble. But lets rejoice, CNN can now have a 'breaking news' every ten minutes, showing Obama, Holder, Sharpton and Jackson speaking about this. And some more race riots and lootings. Not all police, I'm sure. But far, far more than there should be. On average, someone is killed every day in the US by the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 http://www.nleomf.org/facts/enforcement/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Not all police, I'm sure. But far, far more than there should be. On average, someone is killed every day in the US by the police. We have far more people and far more firearms carried by criminals. So while it may be one a day, how many are unjustified? Likely few and far between but I haven't seen the stats. I just know that every time there is even a questionable shooting by officers, the news makes it a giant story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted April 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Far more people would only be relevant if the numbers were comparable. For example, the US has around 5 times as many people than the UK - there's a bit more than 5 times more police killings in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Far more people would only be relevant if the numbers were comparable. For example, the US has around 5 times as many people than the UK - there's a bit more than 5 times more police killings in the US. Does that take into account the number of illegally carried firearms by criminals? A criminal brandishing a gun tends to escalate things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Far more people would only be relevant if the numbers were comparable. For example, the US has around 5 times as many people than the UK - there's a bit more than 5 times more police killings in the US. And just about twice the number of violent crimes in the UK. I saw an online statistic which stated it was like 5 times higher but checked PolitiFact which said that wasn't true. So? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Here are some crime statistics by race in the USA compiled by the FBI. Its 3 years old, but I'm sure its fairly accurate. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted April 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 And just about twice the number of violent crimes in the UK. I saw an online statistic which stated it was like 5 times higher but checked PolitiFact which said that wasn't true. So? WSS Does that take into account the number of illegally carried firearms by criminals? A criminal brandishing a gun tends to escalate things. So...enforce your damn gun laws and the first resort when dealing with "suspicious characters" won't be to shoot them! Yes, this is going to turn in to a gun debate - not what I was aiming for. The first line of argument when talking about not allowing guns (outside of the constitution, which is a ridiculous argument), is that you need it for protection because the criminals will have guns. Step 1 - stop the criminals having guns. End of steps. The second is usually for protection from the government. If you think there's even a small chance that the US government would install a dictatorship and seize control of the country militarily then a) you're an idiot and if they did, how long before Russia and china gleefully joined forces to remove the US military, aided and abetted by the rest of the world? Then comes the "but there are bears in the woods" argument. Sure, absolutely, you may very well need a rifle or shotgun for your protection there. No problem with that. But do we think that most gun crimes are committed with these weapons? A guy wanders in to down town new york carrying a rifle over his back and nobody notices? No. So keep your guns on your farms if you must, if there's no other, more humane (and equally reliable) self defence option. Did I miss anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 We could execute all violent criminals across the board and non violent criminals who use a gun in the commission of that crime. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted April 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 We could execute all violent criminals across the board and non violent criminals who use a gun in the commission of that crime. WSS Execute everybody. No crime anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrownsfan Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 The one thing I hate with these, is its to hard to find reliable data on police "arrest-related deaths". The FBI allows but doesn't force law agencies to report deaths, which quite a few do not report, the numbers I have found range from an average of 400 a year to an average of 1000(just deaths not if they where justified or not). On the other hand police deaths are recorded all the time, 127 in 2014 most by non criminal activities(medical, accidents, etc) Line of Duty Deaths: 1279/11 related illness: 1Assault: 2Automobile accident: 26Drowned: 2Duty related illness: 3Fire: 1Gunfire: 47Gunfire (Accidental): 2Heart attack: 19Motorcycle accident: 4Struck by vehicle: 5Vehicle pursuit: 5Vehicular assault: 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Execute everybody. No crime anymore!Actually if I were you Chris I wouldn't worry much about it. Especially in Great Britain it's easy to understand that history goes back further than a hundred or two hundred years. I predict a gun ban here in the US relatively soon. No country remains a free, prosperous, entrepreneurial world power forever. One thing politicians love is to impose more and more rules and regulations on the citizens. They say George Orwell wrote Animal Farm about the Russian Revolution but it could be just as easily be any aging society including Great Britain and the United States. So there will always be some kind of freedom we need to give up for our own good. like Clint Eastwood said: "We all got it coming" WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 So...enforce your damn gun laws and the first resort when dealing with "suspicious characters" won't be to shoot them! Yes, this is going to turn in to a gun debate - not what I was aiming for. The first line of argument when talking about not allowing guns (outside of the constitution, which is a ridiculous argument), is that you need it for protection because the criminals will have guns. Step 1 - stop the criminals having guns. End of steps. We do enforce our gun laws. It is illegal for a felon to have a firearm. However, where there is a will there is a way. I am sure the murdery types who know murder is illegal and carries life in prison or the death penalty will be deeply concerned about stronger penalties and gun laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Chicago ghettos are a warzone. I doubt they care much about stricter gun laws. The guns are already in the streets. More laws won't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32213482 Why was he shot? Why did the officer feel the need to shoot him - eight times - in the back as he ran away? We've had these discussions about police and institutional racism before and people will pretty much believe what they believe. But there certainly seems to be something wrong with the american police force. by American police force do you mean Canadian Police, Mexican Police, Columbian Police? If you mean police in the US are you referring to local, state, or federal police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Chicago ghettos are a warzone. I doubt they care much about stricter gun laws. The guns are already in the streets. More laws won't change that. If Detroit had Chicago's population it would be even worse. but... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/16/chicago-homicide-rate-wor_n_1602692.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Chris, this guy who was unjustifiably shot didn't have a gun. The officer is saying that the idiot went for his stun gun, that he may have already have had out. So, what is your complaint about American lack of banning guns? You make no sense about this, it's just another emotional knee-jerky. And the officer? Will be tried, and probably convicted of murder. The officer had the video to back up going after the guy to tackle him, handcuff him. He had the guys? car, fingerprints. But he went arrogant out of control rage. Wrong mental makeup for the stress of his job. and shot the guy, eight times even. He's toast. Policeman road rage, a whole like that. So, your intended point is ....what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 So...enforce your damn gun laws and the first resort when dealing with "suspicious characters" won't be to shoot them! Yes, this is going to turn in to a gun debate - not what I was aiming for. The first line of argument when talking about not allowing guns (outside of the constitution, which is a ridiculous argument), is that you need it for protection because the criminals will have guns. Step 1 - stop the criminals having guns. End of steps. If only someone had thought of that. "You hear that criminals!?!? STOP HAVING GUNS!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowe Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 All police officers should wear body cameras. More evidence can be recorded and used in court regardless of who the defendant is. Seems like a no brainer to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted April 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 If only someone had thought of that. "You hear that criminals!?!? STOP HAVING GUNS!!" There's a difference between simple and easy. But if you're just going to give up on enforcing laws, why stop there? Chris, this guy who was unjustifiably shot didn't have a gun. The officer is saying that the idiot went for his stun gun, that he may have already have had out. So, what is your complaint about American lack of banning guns? You make no sense about this, it's just another emotional knee-jerky. And the officer? Will be tried, and probably convicted of murder. The officer had the video to back up going after the guy to tackle him, handcuff him. He had the guys? car, fingerprints. But he went arrogant out of control rage. Wrong mental makeup for the stress of his job. and shot the guy, eight times even. He's toast. Policeman road rage, a whole like that. So, your intended point is ....what exactly? lololol emotional knee jerk liberal hahaha! The intended point is *not* about this one case, as I've said before. The intended point was a discussion on why people think it is acceptable for a country that has half as many violent crimes as the UK - as pointed out by steve, which is about 10 times as many per person (not a stat I'm proud of) - to have about twice as many people killed by police this year than in the last 100 years of the UK. The reason I'm using the UK is because it was easier to find official statistics than other countries, not because I see the UK as some utopia of peace and law enforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 There's a difference between simple and easy. But if you're just going to give up on enforcing laws, why stop there?It would appear that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the word "criminal" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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