Edwards for Kiwi?

[heckofajobbrownie]

"Rumor one has the Giants trading Kiwanuka to the Browns for Edwards. Since the Browns are completely retooling, Cleveland would demand a draft pick from the Giants, as well. The Browns desperately need help on defense and Braylon Edwards could probably use a change of scenery. Newsday reported on Thursday that the Giants are not interested in a Kiwanuka for Edwards deal. The story suggests, however, that New York would part with draft picks in order to bring Edwards to the Giants."

 

 

I don't buy the trade, but I could see some sort of other deal, especially since now we're in a great position to draft Crabtree. Give us two picks and Sinorice Moss and we'll give you Edwards. That sort of thing.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

"Rumor one has the Giants trading Kiwanuka to the Browns for Edwards. Since the Browns are completely retooling, Cleveland would demand a draft pick from the Giants, as well. The Browns desperately need help on defense and Braylon Edwards could probably use a change of scenery. Newsday reported on Thursday that the Giants are not interested in a Kiwanuka for Edwards deal. The story suggests, however, that New York would part with draft picks in order to bring Edwards to the Giants."

 

 

I don't buy the trade, but I could see some sort of other deal, especially since now we're in a great position to draft Crabtree. Give us two picks and Sinorice Moss and we'll give you Edwards. That sort of thing.

 

Philly is also looking for a #1 WR as is Minn and other teams. If the Browns want to trade Edwards, there will be suiters.

 

[Alendor]

i think a trade would be dumb. if we give BE to guys looking for a #1 reciever, then we're looking for exactly what we just traded away. makes no sense. unless we can lock up another throught the draft, and i don't think we'll end up taking crabtree

[JewDago]

there's two considerations here: if we make the trade before we're completely certain to get crabtree, we have no true #1 receiver and our offense is screwed. however, if we make the trade once we're sure to get crabtree, we lose leverage and can't get the same value for edwards.

 

however, keeping the fifth pick, getting crabtree and getting any combination of 1/3, 1/4, 2/3 or 2/4 would allow us to vastly improve our defense while building for the future, nurturing a young WR, letting him develop a rapport with whoever's going to be our QB and possibly improving our offensive line.

 

if we get the opportunity to make this trade, with what we've seen from our FO and the direction they want to go in, i think we have to make it. if we can get equitable compensation for edwards while also replacing him with a similar player, there's little to no reason why we wouldn't pull the trigger, especially considering his perceived desire to get out of cleveland as fast as he can and play in a bigger market.

[Gips]

there's two considerations here: if we make the trade before we're completely certain to get crabtree, we have no true #1 receiver and our offense is screwed. however, if we make the trade once we're sure to get crabtree, we lose leverage and can't get the same value for edwards.

 

however, keeping the fifth pick, getting crabtree and getting any combination of 1/3, 1/4, 2/3 or 2/4 would allow us to vastly improve our defense while building for the future, nurturing a young WR, letting him develop a rapport with whoever's going to be our QB and possibly improving our offensive line.

 

if we get the opportunity to make this trade, with what we've seen from our FO and the direction they want to go in, i think we have to make it. if we can get equitable compensation for edwards while also replacing him with a similar player, there's little to no reason why we wouldn't pull the trigger, especially considering his perceived desire to get out of cleveland as fast as he can and play in a bigger market.

Im not completely sold on crabtree as an athlete the kid has great hands and the type of attitude mangini would like but he is not real fast and may have tuffness/durability issues theres a good chance he wont last in the nfl he seems he could be injury prone in the nfl mosh pit...for a WR maclin is a far better bet to stay healthy and be a consistant contributor to a successful team...

 

I would take either over BE any given day Edwards has always been Mr.Dropsy if the ball isnt 5 feet over his head he cant handle it and we need to replace him asap..

[Guest mz.]

Im not completely sold on crabtree as an athlete the kid has great hands and the type of attitude mangini would like but he is not real fast and may have tuffness/durability issues theres a good chance he wont last in the nfl he seems he could be injury prone in the nfl mosh pit...for a WR maclin is a far better bet to stay healthy and be a consistant contributor to a successful team...

 

Man, I could not disagree more. But that what makes America beautiful.

 

[JewDago]

Im not completely sold on crabtree as an athlete the kid has great hands and the type of attitude mangini would like but he is not real fast and may have tuffness/durability issues theres a good chance he wont last in the nfl he seems he could be injury prone in the nfl mosh pit...for a WR maclin is a far better bet to stay healthy and be a consistant contributor to a successful team...

much like mz the pussy, i also couldn't disagree more. über-fast guys often get away with running unpolished routes in college because they're fast enough to run away from everyone, but they then struggle in the NFL because everyone in the league is fast, while guys who actually study the position, run crisp, precise routes, can use their bodies to shield the ball from defenders and will compete to make the catch have more success.

 

it's why housh had the success he did in cinci, hines ward excelled in pittsburgh and why michael irvin was successful, to cite three examples.

 

i just did a quick search for crabtree's injury history, but aside from the stress fracture, i didn't find anything, so it shouldn't be all that much of a concern. obviously, you'd prefer someone who's never been injured, but a one-time thing, as long as it's not the obvious beginning of a debilitating condition, shouldn't be too worrisome.

[Guest mz.]

There's no "injury history" with Crabtree. That's garbage. He has a current injury, that's all.

[JewDago]

There's no "injury history" with Crabtree. That's garbage. He has a current injury, that's all.

good call. i did the search just to be sure there wasn't something i didn't know about since i'm not really a follower of texas tech.

[Guest Aloysius]

Yeah, I think Crabtree's bust factor is very low. He may not be a Calvin Johnson-type prospect, but he's got strong hands and blocks very well downfield. That, and he was amazingly productive at Texas Tech as a virtual novice at receiver (he played quarterback in high school).

 

The only thing that could be an issue is attitude. I haven't heard anything concrete, but there are rumblings that he's got a little bit of an attitude. But he's not a Percy Harvin/Kenny Britt kind of asshole.

[heckofajobbrownie]

With Winslow gone and Jurevicius 147 years old it's also a huge area of need.

[Guest mz.]

I remember us drafting a can't miss uber-star game changing circus catcher at #3... and now we can't wait to get rid of him.

 

Sure, but do YOU want to/think it's smart to get rid of him? I sure as shit don't...

 

[Guest mz.]

And as to the "he's no Fitz" line of thinking, I guess you have to take what you're given.

 

Stafford is no Peyton Manning and Orakpo is no Lawrence Taylor...

[Guest mz.]

I like him. Just not at #5.

 

But if he's the best player available and a trade down isn't possible............................

 

[damajuki]

Honestly, if we can get another Day One pick this year and any other decent pick or picks for BE, I say get rid of him and then figure it out.

 

Look, Year One of any new FO is a de facto rebuilding year.

 

And the only way to enjoy a rebuilding year is to focus on the BUILDING.

 

And for building you need bricks, and lots of 'em.

 

So, I support the start from scratch philosophy 100%.

 

I mean, good Lord, can you imagine starting any combination of Quinn, Crabtree, Orakpo, Wells, Greene, CMIII, Sintim, etc. THIS year? Four or even FIVE rookie talents in ONE draft, not even counting Day Two guys?

 

And then watching them all play together for 4-10 years, along with JT, DQ, EW, BMac, et. al.?

 

That would be worth my entertainment dollar, for sure. Far better than watching BE try to catch and DA try to throw again, anyway.

[Guest Aloysius]

Here's what Kokinis said at the Combine when a reporter asked him about Crabtree's "speed issue":

 

"Speed issue? The only speed issue I've seen so far is him running by people, so I'm not sure what speed issue you're referring to. I think when he does time, whether here or at his school, you match it to the tape, match it to his competition, and try to project it against NFL corners and safeties and linebackers and stuff like that.

 

I'm not too concerned about Michael's speed right now because right now on tape I see him running pretty good."

[Solon16]

Sure, but do YOU want to/think it's smart to get rid of him? I sure as shit don't...

 

Absoxxxxinlootly....if we are only going to get a late round third next year when BE bolts to a big city market to promote his modeling carreer...hell yes. get a second rounder for his ass right now and draft Hakkem nicks in the second !

 

[Legacy Fan]

Good thread.

 

Over on NFL Network Dukes & Davis have Curry "falling" to us. It seems Chiefs HC Haley will take Crabtree because of his success in AZ with Fitz & Boldin.

 

I sure hope so.

[ballpeen]

i think a trade would be dumb. if we give BE to guys looking for a #1 reciever, then we're looking for exactly what we just traded away. makes no sense. unless we can lock up another throught the draft, and i don't think we'll end up taking crabtree

 

 

I agree with your reasoning.

 

What isn't mentioned is if Edwards is a Mangini type player.

 

I tend to think not and would place the odds pretty high Edwards is in a new uniform to start the season.

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

i think a trade would be dumb. if we give BE to guys looking for a #1 reciever, then we're looking for exactly what we just traded away. makes no sense. unless we can lock up another throught the draft, and i don't think we'll end up taking crabtree

 

Yea but if your able to get a player and a draft pick or just 2 draft picks then your able to address 2 positions on your team for 1.

The cowboys gave a 1st, 3rd, and 6th for Roy Williams and a 7th, If we can get a 1st and 3rd id do it in a heartbeat.

[ballpeen]

I agree, and the Giants have picks to work with.....

 

1st round....#29

 

2nd round...#45 and #60

 

3rd round....#91

 

I could see #29 and #45 straight up, or #29,#60, and #91

[heckofajobbrownie]

I take Shep's point about Crabtree - I don't think he's at the level that Fitz was coming out of college, and I don't think it's a good comparison either. I don't think he's the physical specimen that Fitz was/is.

 

But I'd still take him at #5.

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

We have Edwards, Stallworth, Jurevicius, Cribbs, Steptoe, Legget, and Hubbard who I think will be a go to receiver for us in the next year or two. So drafting a WR in the first round would be rediculous with all the other needs we have.

WR isn't a must and you gotta draft a must at 5.

[Riffer X]

I am huge on the Edwards needs to go camp, but let's make sure it's out of conference. I went from thinking this guy was going to win us a Super Bowl last year to literal disgust with him. He's just not my type of player nor a Cleveland type of guy. He did his best to try to fit in with giving to the east side schools (which is something he still deserves major kudos for) but the dude's just too much of a prima donna for me. The blaming of fans for being perturbed with him because he is a Michigan alum reeked of adolescent spoiletry and I still can't get over it. I mean, let's get real here, the stats on his drops don't come close to telling the story of how many balls he put on the ground last year. He was friggin terrible, point blank. Not only did he make Glue Hands Hubbard look like Glue Fingers Lavelli, he was a complete puss in establishing route position and absorbing hits.

 

It's an absolute no brainer to move this guy right now IMO. His value is at its peak and we get rid of an underachieving pretty boy. His contract will be off the books and we get commensurate value for him while we still can before his contract is up. It's easy to spin his season last year as a fluke to other teams and attribute it to the collapse, but this guy still has major value in league circles even though we know the guy will ALWAYS drop footballs. If Winslow can demand a 2 and 5?, what will Edwards command?

 

If we can snag a 2 and 3 or 2 and 4 I say fire away right now. I'm still holding out hope DA can bring us a 2, but say it's even a 3 what are we looking at here? We could quite possibly have 5 first day picks, and that's being conservative. Right now, I'm not comfortable with anybody at pick 5 and would love to move down and grab another 1st day pick.

 

If we do stand pat, I'm comfortable with Crabtree coming right in and taking the number one role over Edwards. The kid can catch, and that's the main thing this team needs is stability that Quinn can count on to catch. Crabtree should be ready as a rookie and his 5 pick contract would be similar to what Edwards signed as the third pick, so in theory we'll be saving in the long run. By the slight chance in hell that Edwards stays and has a huge year, there is no way he resigns with us without breaking the bank, so his value is now. People afraid that we have nothing to replace Edwards with shouldn't fret, the guy flat out sucked last year. I feel a lot of his decline was attributable to DA stemming from the 2007 lay outs, I really do.

 

I am for a clean out on this roster and stockpiling high picks (but not high enough to glutton the cap) to go along with this new regime. Please move DA and enough of pretending Lewis has anything left, so there's more cap space to be had.

 

The chance is now for this new regime to stock this team with their own young talent to fit what they're doing. They can gut this thing and do it right, all while keeping the cap in good shape. It just makes too much sense to me, and this is the perfect draft to do it.

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

I am huge on the Edwards needs to go camp, but let's make sure it's out of conference. I went from thinking this guy was going to win us a Super Bowl last year to literal disgust with him. He's just not my type of player nor a Cleveland type of guy. He did his best to try to fit in with giving to the east side schools (which is something he still deserves major kudos for) but the dude's just too much of a prima donna for me. The blaming of fans for being perturbed with him because he is a Michigan alum reeked of adolescent spoiletry and I still can't get over it. I mean, let's get real here, the stats on his drops don't come close to telling the story of how many balls he put on the ground last year. He was friggin terrible, point blank. Not only did he make Glue Hands Hubbard look like Glue Fingers Lavelli, he was a complete puss in establishing route position and absorbing hits.

 

It's an absolute no brainer to move this guy right now IMO. His value is at its peak and we get rid of an underachieving pretty boy. His contract will be off the books and we get commensurate value for him while we still can before his contract is up. It's easy to spin his season last year as a fluke to other teams and attribute it to the collapse, but this guy still has major value in league circles even though we know the guy will ALWAYS drop footballs. If Winslow can demand a 2 and 5?, what will Edwards command?

 

If we can snag a 2 and 3 or 2 and 4 I say fire away right now. I'm still holding out hope DA can bring us a 2, but say it's even a 3 what are we looking at here? We could quite possibly have 5 first day picks, and that's being conservative. Right now, I'm not comfortable with anybody at pick 5 and would love to move down and grab another 1st day pick.

 

If we do stand pat, I'm comfortable with Crabtree coming right in and taking the number one role over Edwards. The kid can catch, and that's the main thing this team needs is stability that Quinn can count on to catch. Crabtree should be ready as a rookie and his 5 pick contract would be similar to what Edwards signed as the third pick, so in theory we'll be saving in the long run. By the slight chance in hell that Edwards stays and has a huge year, there is no way he resigns with us without breaking the bank, so his value is now. People afraid that we have nothing to replace Edwards with shouldn't fret, the guy flat out sucked last year. I feel a lot of his decline was attributable to DA stemming from the 2007 lay outs, I really do.

 

I am for a clean out on this roster and stockpiling high picks (but not high enough to glutton the cap) to go along with this new regime. Please move DA and enough of pretending Lewis has anything left, so there's more cap space to be had.

 

The chance is now for this new regime to stock this team with their own young talent to fit what they're doing. They can gut this thing and do it right, all while keeping the cap in good shape. It just makes too much sense to me, and this is the perfect draft to do it.

 

Since Dallas gave a 1st, 3rd, 6th for Roy Williams thats what Kokinis will expect for Edwards, and if they cant get it I think he'll be here next year. With him coming in next year wanting to prove what he can do again, I think he's poised to redeem himself, then we can sign him to a long term contract or of he wants out we can franchise him and trade him for alot more value than this year

 

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Since Dallas gave a 1st, 3rd, 6th for Roy Williams thats what Kokinis will expect for Edwards, and if they cant get it I think he'll be here next year. With him coming in next year wanting to prove what he can do again, I think he's poised to redeem himself, then we can sign him to a long term contract or of he wants out we can franchise him and trade him for alot more value than this year

 

Man he reminds me of Plaxico when he was in Pittsburgh. Always plays well when in a contract year. All the talent in the world but too many distractions that affect his play week to week.

 

In other words, a player who thinks he's bigger then the game.

 

How much did Pittsburgh suffer when Plaxico left. Now, look at what he has done to New York. Guys like this don't know how to live with their fame. They play when they have to. Just enough to get us to want them because when they're right they can win a game for you.

[Riffer X]

Since Dallas gave a 1st, 3rd, 6th for Roy Williams thats what Kokinis will expect for Edwards, and if they cant get it I think he'll be here next year. With him coming in next year wanting to prove what he can do again, I think he's poised to redeem himself, then we can sign him to a long term contract or of he wants out we can franchise him and trade him for alot more value than this year

 

You can't compare what Dallas gave up for Williams to Edwards' situation. First of all, Dallas just made one of the worst trades in recent memory, and that's no BS.

 

Edwards is not going to all of a sudden catch everything thrown to him. Dude has been dropping balls since high school and I'm sick of this franchise trotting out guys who can't hang onto the ball. Dating back to Michael Tyson Dyson Jackson, through Dr. Q, Bryant, Northcant and Edwards, it's a never ending cycle. Now we have people waiting on the great Paulie Hubbard to be our next savior. Another in the long line of guys who look the part but can't play the part.

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

You can't compare what Dallas gave up for Williams to Edwards' situation. First of all, Dallas just made one of the worst trades in recent memory, and that's no BS.

 

Edwards is not going to all of a sudden catch everything thrown to him. Dude has been dropping balls since high school and I'm sick of this franchise trotting out guys who can't hang onto the ball. Dating back to Michael Tyson Dyson Jackson, through Dr. Q, Bryant, Northcant and Edwards, it's a never ending cycle. Now we have people waiting on the great Paulie Hubbard to be our next savior. Another in the long line of guys who look the part but can't play the part.

 

what do you mean you cant compare what dallas gave up, thats how trade values are determined. The Saints gave a 2nd and 5th last year for Shockey and that wasnt considered a good trade either but we still got a 2nd and 5th for winslow.

Just because a trade didnt work in your favor doesnt mean the trade value of a player of the same position isnt worth the same

 

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

Man he reminds me of Plaxico when he was in Pittsburgh. Always plays well when in a contract year. All the talent in the world but too many distractions that affect his play week to week.

 

In other words, a player who thinks he's bigger then the game.

 

How much did Pittsburgh suffer when Plaxico left. Now, look at what he has done to New York. Guys like this don't know how to live with their fame. They play when they have to. Just enough to get us to want them because when they're right they can win a game for you.

 

Plaxico's problems were off the field, Braylon hasnt had issues off the field. Whats he done to New York, he took them to the superbowl. Braylon had one bad year, as did the entire team. Sure hes gonna drop some balls but hes gonna make up for them with extraordinary catches and he's still very young. We gotta quit giving up on young guys that show so much potential, these guys came in as rookies and were expected to be leaders on a very weak team. Thats alot of pressure on a 23 year old when your playing a mans game. When you were young and someone attacked you, I would expect you to defend yourself. Thats what braylon did, just give him a chance to mature.

[Riffer X]

what do you mean you cant compare what dallas gave up, thats how trade values are determined. The Saints gave a 2nd and 5th last year for Shockey and that wasnt considered a good trade either but we still got a 2nd and 5th for winslow.

Just because a trade didnt work in your favor doesnt mean the trade value of a player of the same position isnt worth the same

 

So what you're saying is since Dallas made a totally Retarded trade with Detroit that all other trades will be based on those values? The whole league laughed at Dallas and their desperation even before the trade turned into a colossal failure.

 

That's not how it works. Sure, there is a basis to go by a lot of times, but it certainly doesn't dictate the future trade barriers. Randy Moss garnered a 4th round pick, remember?

 

As far as Winslow/Shockey goes, Shockey brought more value than he should have. He is oft injured and not near the player Winslow is, so technically, Winslow should have garnered more. Obviously, although Winslow is younger, his injury history and shortening career were mitigating factors, along with his contract coming up. All in all, the teams gaining the picks from both of these overrated players will make out in the long run.

 

The same principal holds true for Edwards. If we can get a high second and a third for example, that's a win win. If it were an actual first, there is no way we would be getting a third and a sixth with it, more like a first and a seventh or a player.

 

I for one would jump for joy with a first rounder and something else, and Mancock would be stupid not jumping on that IMO.