Guest Aloysius Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 OSU does have a fast track but it isn't worth a .1 of a second. That's unrealistic. There are all kinds of schools that have the same track as OSU, so I would qualify it as a fast track but you won't see scouts adjusting their times by .1 of a second. Every pro day time is adjusted using the Combine as a baseline; they do the same thing for 40's run at USC's pro day. And if you actually look at the numbers, it's clear that running on OSU's fast track yields, on average, a .1 second advantage. Vernon Gholston Combine: 4.65 Pro day: 4.58 Larry Grant Combine: 4.76 Pro day: 4.65 A.J. Hawk Combine: 4.59 Pro day: 4.47 Jay Richardson Combine: 5.00 Pro day: 4.90 Nate Salley Combine: 4.63 Pro day: 4.53 Anthony Schlegel Combine: 4.88 Pro day: 4.78 Not sure how that's at all "unrealistic" - it's more a case of scouts knowing what they're doing. Some add a .07-.1 adjustment to their times, while others go all the way up to .15 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraDawg Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 BTW, you're going to find in the NFL that your boy Beanie isn't in love with contact in between the tackles, when it's not some DB he can just shoved to the ground. The idea is to avoid contact . Give me Beanie or give me Robiskie . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTBH Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 The idea is to avoid contact That's my point. Contact avoidance is smart, but great running backs initiate contact when it's smart to i.e., Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith, Adrian Peterson. Beanie Wells never initiates it other than tossing a DB to the ground, and even then there isn't much contact. His level of desire to avoid contact will be a problem in the NFL, mark it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobalaz Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I'd just like to point out 40 time isn't the same thing as football speed. You have to factor in speed, agility and (more important on D) reaction times to get football speed. After all, every receiver isn't running a straight out deep route every play. Receivers run patterns, cuts, slants, buttonhooks, ect. So if you're looking at a receiver's speed, you look at his 40 for your straight out deep patterns, everything else you have to factor in his agility, how much speed he loses on a cut and how fast he can accelerate back to top speed. On defense it's the same thing PLUS how fast can he react and adjust. Is it impressive when a 300+ lb guy runs a sub 5 second 40? Hell yes it is but it doesn't translate a damn thing to the field. You have to look at it all, that's why we get screwed when we look at JUST the numbers because a ilb that ran a 4.6 would look slower than one that ran a 4.7 on the field if mr 4.6 can't accelerate and react as good as mr 4.7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Every pro day time is adjusted using the Combine as a baseline; they do the same thing for 40's run at USC's pro day. And if you actually look at the numbers, it's clear that running on OSU's fast track yields, on average, a .1 second advantage. Vernon Gholston Combine: 4.65 Pro day: 4.58 Larry Grant Combine: 4.76 Pro day: 4.65 A.J. Hawk Combine: 4.59 Pro day: 4.47 Jay Richardson Combine: 5.00 Pro day: 4.90 Nate Salley Combine: 4.63 Pro day: 4.53 Anthony Schlegel Combine: 4.88 Pro day: 4.78 Not sure how that's at all "unrealistic" - it's more a case of scouts knowing what they're doing. Some add a .07-.1 adjustment to their times, while others go all the way up to .15 seconds. Yes, scouts do know whaqt they are doing and time in the 40 is a small part of what they look at. If pro day 40's didn't mean much then they wouldn't run them. they would just use the Combine time. Everybody runs on pro day and they most run faster so there is no adjustments being made to a time at one facility. Besides, scouts watch film and want to know game speed. I don't think they get caught up in 40 times as much as you think they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 .I don't think they get caught up in 40 times as much as you think they do. I think you are mostly right....Except for the Corner position anyways. Scouts seem to count speed for everything when it comes to the corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I sure hope that Beanie dosn't get drafted by the Steelers, Ravens or the Bengals. Our run stop defense sucks ass as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I sure hope that Beanie dosn't get drafted by the Steelers, Ravens or the Bengals. Our run stop defense sucks ass as it is. I wouldn't worry about it too much. He'll spend half the game running off the field because his finger or hand or toe or elbow hurts. The NFL's scout page said it best... "Wells doesn't seem to understand the difference between pain and injury". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 If pro day 40's didn't mean much then they wouldn't run them. they would just use the Combine time. That doesn't work because: 1. Not every draftable prospect is invited to the Combine. 2. Some players who are invited can't run due to injuries. 3. Many players feel that the long hours and stressful conditions at the Combine lead to their poor 40 times, which they seek to correct at their pro days 4. OSU players have a history of electing to run only on the fast track at their pro day (if you want, I can put together a list of names) Everybody runs on pro day That's not true. Many prospects who perform exceeding well at the Combine opt not to run at their pro days. Darrius Heyward-Bey and Johnny Knox are two guys who chose not to go through any of the speed & agility drills at their respective pro days. and they most run faster so there is no adjustments being made to a time at one facility. I don't get this: even if most prospects run faster at their pro days (and I'm not certain that's true), wouldn't scouts want to be able to compare their times? If there isn't some baseline to compare the times to, how can a scout know whether a time run at pro day x is faster than a time at pro day y? I don't think they get caught up in 40 times as much as you think they do. I'm not sure I have a set, well-considered opinion on how much scouts value 40 times, and I don't think I've said anything about it in this thread. Perhaps you're confusing me with Heck. My point simply was that Beanie's 4.35-4.45 likely equates to running a 4.45-4.55 at the Combine, which is still very impressive. The same .1 second adjustment would apply to Laurinaitis's time, making it a 4.78-4.88. Do you disagree with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I am still on the marcus Freeman is the darkhorse i would like to see a Brown kick. I am not big on JL.... i disagree and dont think he is a good pass rusher for the NFL level. Jenkins honestly never seemed to me watching buck games was a shut down corner. I think robiskie is another santonio holmes for the NFL. Washington I always thought actually sucked. I dont care about those 40 times on whatever track, for me that does not always translate truly in full pads during games day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I think you are mostly right....Except for the Corner position anyways. Scouts seem to count speed for everything when it comes to the corners. Yes, WR and corners. Positions that need to create separation or have recovery speed. Then, there's game speed. Some people just look and play great in shorts. Jenkins timed slow for a corner, but I didn't see him get beat by those speedy outside WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 That doesn't work because:1. Not every draftable prospect is invited to the Combine. 2. Some players who are invited can't run due to injuries. 3. Many players feel that the long hours and stressful conditions at the Combine lead to their poor 40 times, which they seek to correct at their pro days 4. OSU players have a history of electing to run only on the fast track at their pro day (if you want, I can put together a list of names) That's not true. Many prospects who perform exceeding well at the Combine opt not to run at their pro days. Darrius Heyward-Bey and Johnny Knox are two guys who chose not to go through any of the speed & agility drills at their respective pro days. I don't get this: even if most prospects run faster at their pro days (and I'm not certain that's true), wouldn't scouts want to be able to compare their times? If there isn't some baseline to compare the times to, how can a scout know whether a time run at pro day x is faster than a time at pro day y? I'm not sure I have a set, well-considered opinion on how much scouts value 40 times, and I don't think I've said anything about it in this thread. Perhaps you're confusing me with Heck. My point simply was that Beanie's 4.35-4.45 likely equates to running a 4.45-4.55 at the Combine, which is still very impressive. The same .1 second adjustment would apply to Laurinaitis's time, making it a 4.78-4.88. Do you disagree with that? Flordia has a fast track, Miami has a extremely fast track, USC has the fastest tract of all. Ariz has a fast track, Georgia has a fast track, Michagan has a fast track as does Oklahoma. So, whos' adjusting to what. The track at the combine was a slow track as noted by the scouts. fact is your time is just that and is good for comparisons only. How they preformed at the combine wasn't about the number it was about how they compared to others. OSU having a fast track is known just like a dozen or more other facilities are noted for having a fast track. OSU isn't way out of the norm or their track records would be disallowed. So, is it the fastest track when you see track records being broken at other tracks and not at OSU. So your example of Beanie running a 4.45 vs his 4.55 at the combine is no different then what will happen to Noshon Morino when he runs on his pro day or Greene or Donald Brown when they run on theirs. Same with Laurinaitis's time as you watch other LBs reduce their times fron their pro days. My point is scouts don't downgrade the time from OSU and don't downgrade the times from other universities. It's a comparison and the combine number isn't the gold standard. It is a slow track and everybody knows it. It's comparitive because most others will reduce their times also. The real test is if they bring them into Cleveland for a personal workout. Then, they have a time at a facility where it can be compared to what others have run at the same facility over the years. But, basing a ILBs draft status on his 40 time isn't all that realistic. A corner, then yes. A WR, then yes............but saying JL's stock will drop or his status changed by his "average" 40 time is over the top. Times are comparitive not adjusted and they are a small portion of what goes into the evaluation of someone. More decisions are based on game film then 40 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegasdogg Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 BTW, you're going to find in the NFL that your boy Beanie isn't in love with contact in between the tackles, when it's not some DB he can just shoved to the ground. Huh? 85-90% of his runs are between the tackles. Not sure what you're basing this on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrownsFan Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 The NFL's scout page said it best... "Wells doesn't seem to understand the difference between pain and injury". Didn't Jim Brown make some kind of backhanded remark as well about Chris running out of bounds a lot? Something to the fact that isn't a real football player or something like that.... I do remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Yes, WR and corners. Positions that need to create separation or have recovery speed. Then, there's game speed. Some people just look and play great in shorts. Jenkins timed slow for a corner, but I didn't see him get beat by those speedy outside WRs. Ya know, I don't think scouts get too caught up in 40 times for WR's even. Look at Crabtree. It's well known he is not a burner but he's still considered this draft's best WR. But corners? Man, it seems if you aren't running sub 4.5's then you don;t have a future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Huh? 85-90% of his runs are between the tackles. Not sure what you're basing this on. Basing it on the same thing Chris Spielman based his comments on....the fact that Beanie is running off the field all the time because of pain. Go to the NFL's combine site and read the analysis on him....."Beanie doesn't seem to know the difference between pain and injury". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Basing it on the same thing Chris Spielman based his comments on....the fact that Beanie is running off the field all the time because of pain. Go to the NFL's combine site and read the analysis on him....."Beanie doesn't seem to know the difference between pain and injury". He played his entire sophmore season with a broken wrist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 According to Gil Brandt, Rob Ryan was at OSU's pro day, as were Mike Tomlin, Dick LeBeau, and Kevin Colbert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I have a horrible feeling that Pittsburgh is going to draft Robiskie in the 2nd round. They just lost Nate Washington and Sweed couldn't catch a cold. I'm still trying to get over the fact that Santonio is a Squeeler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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