Browns hunting for Leonard Williams?

[Suomi]

This is a trade-up that I could get behind. Williams is arguably the best player in the draft. If he slips past #4 Farmer may pull the trigger - especially with Pettine in his ear. What a great get that would be for the Browns. Couple that with an edge rusher at 19 (assuming the 12th was used to trade up)...now you've got my attention.

[miktoxic]

This is a trade-up that I could get behind. Williams is arguably the best player in the draft. If he slips past #4 Farmer may pull the trigger - especially with Pettine in his ear. What a great get that would be for the Browns. Couple that with an edge rusher at 19 (assuming the 12th was used to trade up)...now you've got my attention.

 

well what's the cost?

 

i think as well he's the best player in the draft (if he could play all positions).

 

can williams take over 2 roster spots (NT and DE/OLB) without costing us any picks? if not stay pat.

[tiamat63]

If the Browns trade up to #4 - it's doubtful they keep their 19. Next pick isn't until 43

[Clevfan4life]

 

well what's the cost?

 

i think as well he's the best player in the draft (if he could play all positions).

 

can williams take over 2 roster spots (NT and DE/OLB) without costing us any picks? if not stay pat.

 

1) he ain't gonna drop anywhere we have a reasonable shot at him

 

2) OLB? he's 290. He'd have to drop 20 lbs just to "consider" playing the jack like Kruger does. More if we would want him to have any cover duties. A DE in a 3-4 is not the same cat as a 4-3 DE who theoretically is not that far away from playing a 3-4 OLB'er. And NT? Williams will not see the NT position unless he gains at least 20 lbs. The great 3-4 NT anchors are all well north of 320.

 

Any interest the Browns may have in Williams is the 5 tech spot....and "only" that. I would be happy to have him on the team but unless people think he's the next JJ Watt...not sure about selling the draft for him. I'd be more interested in Bosa next year as I think he's more versatile than Williams. I think Bosa lines up better than WIlliams off the tackles outside shoulder, which might make him a better pass rusher. Williams is a beast interior rusher though. Would be happy with either, but def have my heart set on Bosa next year and filling in some other positions this year.

[tiamat63]

 

1)

 

Any interest the Browns may have in Williams is the 5 tech spot....and "only" that.

 

I'm not sure what the quotes around 'only' are for unless you truly do believe Williams would only play one exclusive position in this defense. In which case, you are so terribly wrong.

[PoeticG]

He looks like a beast but that D-Line was all over the QBs and Runningbacks. That whole squad hustles though. Hard to tell without seeing him in a vacuum...

[Clevfan4life]

 

I'm not sure what the quotes around 'only' are for unless you truly do believe Williams would only play one exclusive position in this defense. In which case, you are so terribly wrong.

 

He would not be playing NT at his current weight. He's a little bit smaller than mugshot...do we have mugshot playing NT? Yes he could play the DT spot directly next to the NT but that would be woefully under utilizing his talents. He's a 5 tech in a 3-4. In a 4-3 he could play DT or move out to DE, are we going to a 4-3 and I didn't hear about it? So I don't think i'm terribly wrong. He would absolutely not be playing even one single down at Krugers spot you know that, right? I dont' understand where else you think he's going to play? We wouldn't draft him to play DT except in spot duty because ffs look at our depth there. So the 3-4 DE is the only conceivable position for him to play. We wouldn't sell out our draft for added depth at DT.

[tiamat63]

 

He would not be playing NT at his current weight. He's a little bit smaller than mugshot...do we have mugshot playing NT? Yes he could play the DT spot directly next to the NT but that would be woefully under utilizing his talents. He's a 5 tech in a 3-4. In a 4-3 he could play DT or move out to DE, are we going to a 4-3 and I didn't hear about it? So I don't think i'm terribly wrong. He would absolutely not be playing even one single down at Krugers spot you know that, right? I dont' understand where else you think he's going to play? We wouldn't draft him to play DT except in spot duty because ffs look at our depth there. So the 3-4 DE is the only conceivable position for him to play. We wouldn't sell out our draft for added depth at DT.

 

At 290 he has versatility

[tiamat63]

 

He would not be playing NT at his current weight. He's a little bit smaller than mugshot...do we have mugshot playing NT? Yes he could play the DT spot directly next to the NT but that would be woefully under utilizing his talents. He's a 5 tech in a 3-4. In a 4-3 he could play DT or move out to DE, are we going to a 4-3 and I didn't hear about it? So I don't think i'm terribly wrong. He would absolutely not be playing even one single down at Krugers spot you know that, right? I dont' understand where else you think he's going to play? We wouldn't draft him to play DT except in spot duty because ffs look at our depth there. So the 3-4 DE is the only conceivable position for him to play. We wouldn't sell out our draft for added depth at DT.

 

At 290 he has versatility and every bit the size to play consistently at a 3tech. Most 5techs don't hang over 280

[tiamat63]

 

He would not be playing NT at his current weight. He's a little bit smaller than mugshot...do we have mugshot playing NT? Yes he could play the DT spot directly next to the NT but that would be woefully under utilizing his talents. He's a 5 tech in a 3-4. In a 4-3 he could play DT or move out to DE, are we going to a 4-3 and I didn't hear about it? So I don't think i'm terribly wrong. He would absolutely not be playing even one single down at Krugers spot you know that, right? I dont' understand where else you think he's going to play? We wouldn't draft him to play DT except in spot duty because ffs look at our depth there. So the 3-4 DE is the only conceivable position for him to play. We wouldn't sell out our draft for added depth at DT.

 

At 290 he has versatility and every bit the size to play consistently at a 3tech. Most 5techs don't hang over 280 too much as they still have to be able to turn the corner on a tackle in order to setup that inside move. In passing down's Leonard absolutely can play at the 1i, using his speed overpower and blow past slower guards.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

He would not be playing NT at his current weight. He's a little bit smaller than mugshot...do we have mugshot playing NT? Yes he could play the DT spot directly next to the NT but that would be woefully under utilizing his talents. He's a 5 tech in a 3-4. In a 4-3 he could play DT or move out to DE, are we going to a 4-3 and I didn't hear about it? So I don't think i'm terribly wrong. He would absolutely not be playing even one single down at Krugers spot you know that, right? I dont' understand where else you think he's going to play? We wouldn't draft him to play DT except in spot duty because ffs look at our depth there. So the 3-4 DE is the only conceivable position for him to play. We wouldn't sell out our draft for added depth at DT.

 

I'm sure well play at least 25% of our snaps in a 4-3, FWIW.

[Clevfan4life]

 

I'm sure well play at least 25% of our snaps in a 4-3, FWIW.

 

Because Kruger, or Armonty now that they'll be moving him to OLB, will put their hands down. But a legit 4-3 with two dedicated DE"s? 25%? what makes you think that?

[Clevfan4life]

At 290 he has versatility and every bit the size to play consistently at a 3tech. Most 5techs don't hang over 280 too much as they still have to be able to turn the corner on a tackle in order to setup that inside move. In passing down's Leonard absolutely can play at the 1i, using his speed overpower and blow past slower guards.

 

The best 5 techs in the league are guys like Watt and Smith who are all a cunt hair under 300. Why would we put Willams at NT though? I understand 3rd and long situations where you run a Nascar like pckg but consistently at NT? We'd get him hurt doing that.

[TexasAg1969]

Williams is the only one out there that gives you that combination of speed rusher and power to take on blocks and get the runner down.

 

Would that be worth a trade up? With this draft so deep in WR's I'd say yes, go get him.

 

And he is the only one out there I would trade up that far to get.

[Clevfan4life]

Williams is the only one out there that gives you that combination of speed rusher and power to take on blocks and get the runner down.

 

Would that be worth a trade up? With this draft so deep in WR's I'd say yes, go get him.

 

And he is the only one out there I would trade up that far to get.

 

With our current defensive needs you'd take him over Shelton or Fowler? You may be right. I just see different needs this year. Next year I would have wanted to go after a versatile DL like Bosa.

[wargograw]

 

With our current defensive needs you'd take him over Shelton or Fowler? You may be right. I just see different needs this year. Next year I would have wanted to go after a versatile DL like Bosa.

Yeah Shelton and Fowler are much bigger needs.

[Clevfan4life]

Yeah Shelton and Fowler are much bigger needs.

 

Fowler isn't technically a "need" because we're moving Armonty out to OLB'er. He's just one of those guys you should try not to pass up if he's in your reach. Not sure about trading too much up for him though. Shelton on the other hand....we need a NT in case Taylor gets injured again. We absolutely cannot let what happened last year happen again.

[wargograw]

Is Fowler not a pass rusher?

[secondwave]

I've heard comparisons to Richard Seymour, is there any accuracy to this?

 

If so, I'm all for him. I like Shelton, but I'm not really as high on him as some of you guys are. I don't see a young Haloti Ngata at all.

[tiamat63]

 

The best 5 techs in the league are guys like Watt and Smith who are all a cunt hair under 300. Why would we put Willams at NT though? I understand 3rd and long situations where you run a Nascar like pckg but consistently at NT? We'd get him hurt doing that.

 

Watt is 285 according to the Texans roster, chief. And what do you mean NT? Where did I say nose? You mean the 3tech comment? Because with your inability to grasp the difference between a nose and someone who would align outside or heads up on a guard ( plus using Madden phrases like 'nascar' package) lead me to believe that the only things you know about football stem from a damn video game.

[Clevfan4life]

Is Fowler not a pass rusher?

 

yep. He's DE/OLB type. Would love him. But getting another NT imo is priority over a guy that we already have two like him on staff.

[Clevfan4life]

Watt is 285 according to the Texans roster, chief. And what do you mean NT? Where did I say nose? You mean the 3tech comment? Because with your inability to grasp the difference between a nose and someone who would align outside or heads up on a guard ( plus using Madden phrases like 'nascar' package) lead me to believe that the only things you know about football stem from a damn video game.

 

1) Watt is at least 290 now. That must be an old figure.

 

2) No I thought you were the one saying he'd play all over the line my mistake I misread you. And Nascar package is not a Madden phrase, it was coined by the Giants 3rd and/or long down packages where they bring in 4 DE's. You did know that right? I've never played a down of Madden in my entire life, wait..no Madden 95 on the Genesis, I did play that. But since then not once boy. If that phrase is in Madden they likely got it from what the Giants run.

 

[tiamat63]

 

1) Watt is at least 290 now. That must be an old figure.

 

2) No I thought you were the one saying he'd play all over the line my mistake I misread you. And Nascar package is not a Madden phrase, it was coined by the Giants 3rd and/or long down packages where they bring in 4 DE's. You did know that right? I've never played a down of Madden in my entire life, wait..no Madden 95 on the Genesis, I did play that. But since then not once boy. If that phrase is in Madden they likely got it from what the Giants run.

 

 

 

Perhaps it is an old figure, but Watt is not 300lbs. I did say Williams will play all over the line. In our base defense he'd likely find a home at the 5tech, but since we're in our base about 25-30% of the time tops, he'd be a more 3tech player and while seeing snaps around the 0-1 spot in 3rd and distance situations.

 

I was aware of the 4 speed sub package the Giants employed, as they aren't the only team that does so. I was not aware they actually coined the phrase 'nascar' package. I retract my comment on that then.

[Clevfan4life]

 

 

Perhaps it is an old figure, but Watt is not 300lbs. I did say Williams will play all over the line. In our base defense he'd likely find a home at the 5tech, but since we're in our base about 25-30% of the time tops, he'd be a more 3tech player and while seeing snaps around the 0-1 spot in 3rd and distance situations.

 

I was aware of the 4 speed sub package the Giants employed, as they aren't the only team that does so. I was not aware they actually coined the phrase 'nascar' package. I retract my comment on that then.

 

You see Williams playing the 34 3 tech? For that you def have to 300 plus. This is why I just don't see us taking him because I don't believe he can play all over our line in our system "every down". Sure there's different packages but we're not selling our draft for a package specific player. It's just my opinion but even though I love him, I'd rather fill other needs this year without compromising our chances to go after Bosa next year. Bosa imo could be the next Watt, but already further progressed in run defense than Watt was at that point in his career. If we ran a 4-3 I would love me some Leonard Williams for sure.

 

[tiamat63]

 

You see Williams playing the 34 3 tech? For that you def have to 300 plus. This is why I just don't see us taking him because I don't believe he can play all over our line in our system "every down". Sure there's different packages but we're not selling our draft for a package specific player. It's just my opinion but even though I love him, I'd rather fill other needs this year without compromising our chances to go after Bosa next year. Bosa imo could be the next Watt, but already further progressed in run defense than Watt was at that point in his career. If we ran a 4-3 I would love me some Leonard Williams for sure.

 

 

In order.

 

1st bold - Myself, scouts and the USC coaching staff disagree with your assessment of the position and its requirements. Something to consider as well.

In the first 6 minutes of this tape I've watched there have been 35 snaps with Williams. Of those 35 snaps, he's rotated between the 2i- 4tech 32 times.

Thrice was he outside shoulder of the tackle. Twice standing up for a designed stunt to free up a blitzers off the edge, one to contain an outside zone stretch.

 

Still think I might be the only one who see's him NOT playing a 5tech exclusively and not requiring to be 300lbs?

 

 

 

 

 

 

2nd bold - Farmer has outright said they're looking for "waves" to send in like hockey, of specialty players. Not necessarily a strategy I agree with, but it lends credibility to my argument.

 

3rd bold - I love Joey as well, but I'm not going to sacrifice what I COULD get next year for what appears to be a highly quality player this year. Especially considering that Bosa would be our primary 5tech in this defense and would play a position almost completely different than Leonard.

 

4th bold - You're caught up in system names and designations believing that every 34 requires 300+lb, 2gap behemoths on the line playing heads up on the tackles and center.

[Clevfan4life]

He looks slow as hell when they line him up in those odd spots. I just don't see him being that versatile in the NFL. Just my opinion. If it was me I'd have Williams playing primarily the 5 tech. I see him exactly as how the Texans use Watt.

[utzie]

 

In order.

 

1st bold - Myself, scouts and the USC coaching staff disagree with your assessment of the position and its requirements. Something to consider as well.

In the first 6 minutes of this tape I've watched there have been 35 snaps with Williams. Of those 35 snaps, he's rotated between the 2i- 4tech 32 times.

Thrice was he outside shoulder of the tackle. Twice standing up for a designed stunt to free up a blitzers off the edge, one to contain an outside zone stretch.

 

Still think I might be the only one who see's him NOT playing a 5tech exclusively and not requiring to be 300lbs?

 

 

 

 

 

 

2nd bold - Farmer has outright said they're looking for "waves" to send in like hockey, of specialty players. Not necessarily a strategy I agree with, but it lends credibility to my argument.

 

3rd bold - I love Joey as well, but I'm not going to sacrifice what I COULD get next year for what appears to be a highly quality player this year. Especially considering that Bosa would be our primary 5tech in this defense and would play a position almost completely different than Leonard.

 

4th bold - You're caught up in system names and designations believing that every 34 requires 300+lb, 2gap behemoths on the line playing heads up on the tackles and center.

 

Am I the only one who thinks he gets off the ball really slow a lot? It seems like he's always a half step behind everyone else.

 

He looks slow as hell when they line him up in those odd spots. I just don't see him being that versatile in the NFL. Just my opinion. If it was me I'd have Williams playing primarily the 5 tech. I see him exactly as how the Texans use Watt.

EDIT: Guess not...

[tiamat63]

He looks slow as hell when they line him up in those odd spots. I just don't see him being that versatile in the NFL. Just my opinion. If it was me I'd have Williams playing primarily the 5 tech. I see him exactly as how the Texans use Watt.

A 5 tech similar has to have an elite combination of burst and closing speed. You'd put Williams, whom you've described as a step slow - in that position? Is that making any sense to you?

[Clevfan4life]

A 5 tech similar has to have an elite combination of burst and closing speed. You'd put Williams, whom you've described as a step slow - in that position? Is that making any sense to you?

he looked slow on the outside. Not overall slow.