gftChris Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Pough was specifically mentioned by Farmer pre-draft as someone who could make the step up. So I guess if we're cutting him we have better players...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 it looks like they've placed an injury designation on Pough so, if he should clear waivers, we have the option to keep him by placing him on the injury list..... It appears we've already used the 2 spots created when we cut these guys, by picking up another LB named Mike Reilly and another OL named Eric Olsen..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Yep, saw that. Roster churning, looking for special players cut by other teams, as happens every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Paul Browning - WR Darius Jennings - WR Kevin Cone - WR Travis Benjamin - WR Rodney Smith - WR Tyler Loos - LT Darrian Miller - LG Vinston Painter - LG Karim Barton - RG Andrew McDonald - RT Jim Dray - TE EJ Bibbs - TE Kevin Haplea - TE Connor Shaw- QB Glenn Winson - RB Shaun Draughn - RB Luke Lundy - RB Jamie Meder - DE Dylan Winn - DE Jaccobi McDaniel - NT Ishmaaily Kitchen - NT Darius Eubanks - ILB/FS Rodman Noel - ILB Mike Reilly - OLB Brandon Stephens - CB Robert Nelson - CB Micah Pellerin - SS Landon Feichter- SS Kendall James - CB Charley Hughlett - LS Travis Coons - P Tank Carder - ILB Johnson Bademosi - SS De'Ante Saunders - CB Bolded players are practice squad eligible I think that gets us to 53 - not counting Ifo, Pough and Gordon on the exempt/IR list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I don't see them cutting Benjamin.......who are they gonna have returning punts? Duke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I don't see them cutting Benjamin.......who are they gonna have returning punts? Duke? He would be a great option.....other possibilities could be Gilbert, Gabriel or Gaines.....our own little 3G network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I don't see them cutting Benjamin.......who are they gonna have returning punts? Duke? Gilbert, Gabriel, Moore, Duke. This team is not lacking in speed and shiftiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I agree.....I just do not see what they see in Benjiman......I figured he'd be cut this year for sure, but the Browns really seem to be talking him up so far...... Bottom line....I see too much talent on this team to keep a one trick pony....if he earns a WR spot, then so be it.....but I think cutting a good player elsewhere, to keep an average kick returner is a luxury we can not afford..... Bring me a returner like Cribbs or Hester and we can talk...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 He would be a great option.....other possibilities could be Gilbert, Gabriel or Gaines.....our own little 3G network Love the 3G Network idea but damn check out the DUKE Network on his Tape. All I read is the Benji "Rabbit" is to return per Tabor so very confusing.. Also believe on passing downs we just can't trot out Duke and Fool anyone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I agree.....I just do not see what they see in Benjiman......I figured he'd be cut this year for sure, but the Browns really seem to be talking him up so far...... Bottom line....I see too much talent on this team to keep a one trick pony....if he earns a WR spot, then so be it.....but I think cutting a good player elsewhere, to keep an average kick returner is a luxury we can not afford..... Bring me a returner like Cribbs or Hester and we can talk...... Benji had the capability of being a dynamic return similar to the aforementioned greats. His injury may have changed that, but this regime wants to see what he does in year two PI (post injury) before moving on. If he's ten percent better than any of the others, keep him. Having a dedicated and talented returner who can sometimes help in the passing game is better than having a key player at another position half heartedly returning kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cielo Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 So they signed the brah from bodybuilding.com, nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted May 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Benji had the capability of being a dynamic return similar to the aforementioned greats. His injury may have changed that, but this regime wants to see what he does in year two PI (post injury) before moving on. If he's ten percent better than any of the others, keep him. Having a dedicated and talented returner who can sometimes help in the passing game is better than having a key player at another position half heartedly returning kicks. Yep....I agree it looks like they still have some hope he will come around.....my concern isnt his knee, it's his head. It seemed pretty clear to me that he is afraid to catch the ball and run.....perhaps because of the knee??......but fair catching every ball is not what I want to see this year..... Conversely, I have no indications or reasons to believe that the Duke, Gabe, Gaines or Gilbert would put forth half hearted efforts..... So they signed the brah from bodybuilding.com, nice. oh yeah....the Brah guy.... Read his scouting report(terrible by the way) and the funny part was they said he was bulky, but weak.....hahahaha.....(muscle heads always make me laugh)......our own Browns Brah.....hahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 .. and Nick McDonald is out of the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 .. and Nick McDonald is out of the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Yep....I agree it looks like they still have some hope he will come around.....my concern isnt his knee, it's his head. It seemed pretty clear to me that he is afraid to catch the ball and run.....perhaps because of the knee??......but fair catching every ball is not what I want to see this year..... Conversely, I have no indications or reasons to believe that the Duke, Gabe, Gaines or Gilbert would put forth half hearted efforts..... oh yeah....the Brah guy.... Read his scouting report(terrible by the way) and the funny part was they said he was bulky, but weak.....hahahaha.....(muscle heads always make me laugh)......our own Browns Brah.....hahahaha Not necessarily half-hearted efforts, but I expect each of them to be more involved in their respective positions than Benjamin is at WR (maybe not Gaines). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 i think benji's confidence has taken a hit since he got hit/injury. might never be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Ill take it one further even tho its so early.....and speculate that the top 6 picks are sure to make the final roster and at least 2 look like PUP/red shirters........(so, at least 8 outta 12 to stick?....is that even possible?) Shelton, Campbell, Erving, Orchard, D. Johnson and Cooper......all in..... Olomu and Telfer....PUP players for development....(or 2016 rookies in waiting) and the rest are gonna have to earn it.......I think Mayle & Pullard both have a decent chance too...(cause Carder and Benji just aint cutting the mustard)....... Good points. When you really think about it - the only 2 draftees in question in 2014 were the 2 first round guys. Having said that, how many stories are completely written in the first paragraph? Both of those kids have done a complete about-face this offseason. There wasn't a bigger knucklehead on the planet than me between ages of 21 and 23; but that never stood in the way of me getting to where I wanted/needed be in my career very shortly thereafter. Now add in last year's undrafted guys like Taylor Gabriel, Isaiah Crowell and K-wuan OnJuan-Williams plus FAs like Whitner, Dansby and Dray and the was 1 damn good CPR session on the innerchest of this franchise in just 1 offseason. End result? Improvement to 7 wins despite an outrageous injury volume (plus 1 suspension) seating 3 Pro Bowl players from our 2013 offense for about 10 games apiece (mack, Cameron, Gordon). In the 9 losses, we had leads/ties scores in the second halves against the following opponents: Baltimore, Buffalo, Carolina, Indy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore again (only 1 of those teams didn't make the playoffs). Two of those losses came as time expired to illustrate how much the competitive value of this team improved from the 2013 mini bus fire drill of 4-12. Now, onto your damn good point about the possibility of 8 out of 12 picks sticking this year. With our previous front offices - that would have been very wishful thinking. Today, it's really easy to put the game face on. This front office had me when they got serious about what we're putting between Joe Thomas and Alex Mack. Of course the prerequisite to such thinking required an understanding you can't simply replace Alex Mack with a dime a dozen type of talent. I know you've covered a lot of this extremely well but let's get some position competitions down on paper (and please fill in what I'm about to miss): Dline Shelton Taylor Kitchen Hughes D. Bryant Winn D. Wynn Starks Cooper Meder (Thanks Couch) OLB A. Bryant Kruger Mingo Kirksey Orchard Solomon Reilly ILB (Not to sound like the Warden but I probably need help in this area) Robertson Dansby Pullard Carder Martin (Thought he had a real good game vrs TN last year if he's even still on the roster) Rodman Eubanks Secondary Haden Gilbert T. Williams K. Williams Whitner Gipson Poyer Desir Campbell Gaines Ekpre-Olomu (we an protect this kid as he recovers from injury; but he has an upside drool factor 1-2 years from now) Feichter Stephens Saunders Sonie Pellerin Bademosi Mears (Thanks Mud, I'm editing the you know what out of this missing/forgetting guys right and left) Nelson James Oline Thomas Bitonio Mack Greco Schwartz Bowie Erving Seymour Olsen Loos Miller Painter (the name implies a different profession but...) Barton A. McDonald WR Hawkins Gabriel Benjamin (thought he's steadily improved as a WR especially in our comeback vrs TN. Made clutch grabs in other games in limited reps) Hartline Bowe Mayle Moore Jennings Browning Cone Smith TE/FB Barnidge Dray Telfer Johnson Housler Bibbs Haplea RB Crowell West Winston Johnson Lundy Draughn QB McCown Manziel Shaw Lewis Long Snapper Hughlett Punter Lanning Coons Place Kicker Reality TV? Simon Cowell might want to start up a new show and get us a kicker in the process but he better hurry up. Outside of who we're going to look to for game winning kicks, the ONLY guy I wish we'd replace is our STs coach. Too much undiscipline showing up in the exact same mistakes week after week after week. We've even been penalized for bad blocks on fair catches while we're always seemingly looking at flags on decent returns. Not to mention what destroyed our momentum and chance for sweeping Pitt - nobody on the gunners? Billy Winn should have been wearing a coach's cleat up his dumpster when he never even broke a 2 point stance to touch the Rat who blocked our FG. This ain't the continuity we need. We need more than a male cheerleader coaching our STs in my opinion. If guys aren't held accountable for mistakes, they repeat them. Hopefully he'll get better since we have no choice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Ok Tour, Your boy Billy Wynn is laying under a Flugel Bus. Your Move? I'd pay P. Dawson's retirement and let him Play like A Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted May 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 here's a new article mentioning a couple of our much discussed bubble guys...namely Winn & Benji..... Also talks about Greco, Mingo and Bowe....though I think these 3 are on the "starters" bubble, but will surely make the team..... the other 2 are at greater risk , so really gotta show up......I like Billys chances tho.... http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/5-veteran-Browns-players-with-something-to-prove-this-summer/323f5951-c775-4462-a369-d71c56da5400 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Of the Groups, Billy Winn has got the tuffest competition. If not for ST he maybe Practice Squad?? There's going to be some damn close calls on this roster and I'll love it and bitch all about it at the same time. Were getting Deeper in some area's and not so much in a few others.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Of the Groups, Billy Winn has got the tuffest competition. If not for ST he maybe Practice Squad?? There's going to be some damn close calls on this roster and I'll love it and bitch all about it at the same time. Were getting Deeper in some area's and not so much in a few others.. Doesn't qualify for PS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted May 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Doesn't qualify for PS Plus.....even if he did, he'd last about 2 seconds on the waiver wire....we definitely wont be sneaking any great talent onto the practice squad... Good post Flugel.....considering we get 46 players each week, the list gets short....FAST...I moved a coupla guys around and, next to the positions, I put the # we carried on our 46 man game roster last year.....using those #'s, you can really see how stiff the competition is gonna be.... Dline - (7 active) Shelton P. Taylor Starks I. Kitchen J. Hughes D. Bryant B. Winn X. Cooper A. Bryant D. Wynn C. Tupou J. Meder OLB - (4 active) Kruger Mingo Orchard Solomon Reilly ILB - (3 active) Robertson Dansby Kirksey Pullard Carder Rodman Eubanks Cornerback - (5 active) J. Haden J. Gilbert T. Williams K. Williams P. Desir Ekpre-Olomu Nelson Gaines Saunders Stephens James Safety - (4 active) Gipson Poyer Whitner Bademosi Campbell Feichter Sonie Pellerin Oline - (7 active) Thomas Bitonio Mack Greco Schwartz Bowie Erving Seymour Olsen Loos Miller Painter (the name implies a different profession but...) Barton WR- (5 active) Hawkins Gabriel Benjamin Hartline Bowe Mayle Moore Jennings Browning Cone Smith TE/FB - (3 active) Barnidge Dray Telfer Johnson Housler Bibbs Haplea RB - (3 active) Crowell West Winston Johnson Lundy Draughn QB - (2 active) McCown Manziel Shaw Lewis Long Snapper Hughlett Punter Lanning Coons So.....when you take that "active #" into account and start reviewing the list.....its very apparent how deep this team is getting to be...very very nice indeed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Ok Tour, Your boy Billy Wynn is laying under a Flugel Bus. Your Move? I'd pay P. Dawson's retirement and let him Play like A Brown It doesn't surprise me that Tour likes Winn. When it comes to our defensive line, I'm a BIG Billy Winn fan too. When healthy, he makes a lot of big plays and packs an exciting energy. He also sucks it up and plays through injury for us. However, none of that changes my disappointment in him when he never made an effort to block the Rat who blocked our FG. Billy saw nobody across the line of scrimmage threatening to shoot inside of where he lined up so he just took the play off. Caught me off guard, so I watched the replay to confirm/make sure it wasn't because he had to protect his inside gap first. If Billy was injured or disappointed to be in that role - that's on the same STs Coach I was criticizing. Bill Parcells would have buried one if his cleats up Winn's ass especially if the margin of defeat was that 3 points. He's had to yell at plenty of talented players over the years, which is why he was able to tap their upsides so well. Great idea about Dawson. I'll pass a hat around so we can help you fund that Gumby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Plus.....even if he did, he'd last about 2 seconds on the waiver wire....we definitely wont be sneaking any great talent onto the practice squad... Good post Flugel.....considering we get 46 players each week, the list gets short....FAST...I moved a coupla guys around and, next to the positions, I put the # we carried on our 46 man game roster last year.....using those #'s, you can really see how stiff the competition is gonna be.... So.....when you take that "active #" into account and start reviewing the list.....its very apparent how deep this team is getting to be...very very nice indeed.... Thanks Mud! You did a great job with that. I'm glad you separated the DBs into corners and Safeties. When I get some time later, I'll try to predict who our active roster of 46 will be. Couldn't agree more about how deep this team is getting top to bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Factoring in durability trends and types of roles on special teams, this is the 46 guys I'm predicting will make our first active roster: Dline (7) Danny Shelton Phil Taylor (Still worry the idea of him is way better than the reality - I'd keep Kitchen for the effort & durability) John Hughes (Haven't seen better 2 gap skills here in ages - could also kick inside if needed) Randy Starks Billy Winn (Biggest challenges have been nagging injuries; but he's played through some reasonably well) Xavier Cooper Desmond Bryant (Cooper, Starks, Hughes & Winn all play the same position - stay tuned...) OLB (4) Paul Kruger Barkevious Mingo Nate Orchard Scott Solomon (more stout against the run than Armonty Bryant plus the injury thing) ILB (3) Craig Robertson Karlos Dansby Chris Kirksey Cornerback (5) Joe Haden Justin Gilbert Tramon Williams K'Wuan Williams Pierre Desir *** Ekpre-Olomu's injury should get him stashed/protected Safety (3) Tashaun Gipson Donte Whitner Ibraheim Campbell Oline (7) Joe Thomas Joel Bitonio Alex Mack John Greco (Went from looking like Fred Flintstone to losing about 21-25 pounds last off season for his best work) Mitch Schwartz (If the 2015 thesis is to get to 3rd and short running the ball - he's prolly still starting) Michael Bowie Cam Erving (Can he bend and get up under people in the running game before we can appreciate his feet in pass protection?) TE/FB/HB (3) Gary Barnidge Jim Dray Rob Housler WR (5) Andrew Hawkins Taylor Gabriel (new return man especially if he loses WR reps to taller targets like last year. Gordon destroyed his momentum) Dwayne Bowe Brian Hartline Vince Mayle RB (3) Isaiah Crowell Terrance West Duke Johnson Quarterback (2) Josh McCown Johnny Manziel Punter (1) Spencer Lanning Long Snapper (1) Hughlett Special Teams Gunner (1) Johnson Bademosi Kicker (1) TBD Felt like a lot of robbing Peter to pay Paul. As Mud said, we're clearly getting better to the point we're cutting good talent that can play in this league. I'm quietly a HUGE fan of Connor Shaw's ability to be an excellent game manager that sported a 24:1 TD to INT ratio in the SEC. His arm should get stronger-strong enough with NFL caliber off-season/in-season strength and conditioning. Hate to lose this kid. Also hate losing Kitchens as a backup in the rotation. Always answered the bell and was the guy on the apex much of the time Robertson effectively replaced Dansby. Another part of this is Taylor's off-season was a lot of rehabbing an injury. That prolly means the sequel of showing up overweight and without any endurance whatsoever stays in tact. More excuses and explanations; but he's a 1st round investment. I wish he had Kitchen's innerchest. If someone gets hurt in camp or Desmond Bryant isn't looking good, it can re-open the door for Kitchen. Travis Benjamin might have lost his art as a return man; but he clearly improved quite a bit as a WR. Our return teams were so poorly coached it didn't matter if there was a fair catch or not, we were getting flagged for holding/clipping way too frequently for the return guy to matter. As we found out with Charles Johnson, it's not a good idea to roll the dice on putting Vince Mayle on the practice squad. I can already see a role carved out for him in our red zone offense. Whether this is popular or not, I had a hard time letting go of Jordan Poyer. He has experience, flexibility and training invested. 2 different staffs deemed him a keeper material. 1 or 2 of the rookie TEs should find a place on our practice squad if they can't immediately replace Housler on the active roster. I can see the same outcome for an ILBer like Pullard. Outside of QB, we're not counting on nearly as many stop gaps. We're also drafting young guys in positions where we have either aging vets or guys in a final year of a contract. Last but not least, I'll miss Josh Gordon about as much as my last case of food poison. Very refreshing to have a front office with a plan and a philosophy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsnMopar Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Well done Flugel....well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 It doesn't surprise me that Tour likes Winn. When it comes to our defensive line, I'm a BIG Billy Winn fan too. When healthy, he makes a lot of big plays and packs an exciting energy. He also sucks it up and plays through injury for us. However, none of that changes my disappointment in him when he never made an effort to block the Rat who blocked our FG. Billy saw nobody across the line of scrimmage threatening to shoot inside of where he lined up so he just took the play off. Caught me off guard, so I watched the replay to confirm/make sure it wasn't because he had to protect his inside gap first. If Billy was injured or disappointed to be in that role - that's on the same STs Coach I was criticizing. Bill Parcells would have buried one if his cleats up Winn's ass especially if the margin of defeat was that 3 points. He's had to yell at plenty of talented players over the years, which is why he was able to tap their upsides so well. Love Billy's motor... but it's a lot more effective hauling around ten fewer Lbs or so. lol... the FG is another in a long line of topics we would have gone "at it" over. Two Ravens threatened the inside gap between Billy and Bito, but Billy failed to reroute the edge rusher... who got a fantastic jump. That said Billy manned up and took responsibility... The Ravens overloaded to his side, looking for a block, and Winn said he was too tight to the line and too late coming out of his stance. While his first responsibility is blocking the player in front of him, Winn said he also must force the outside rusher wide, not allowing him a direct path to the kicker. Winn grazed Jackson, but didn't disrupt his route. '(You want to) try to get just on the inside of that pad, just to send him upfield just a little bit, just so it gives the kicker more time, even a split-second, just to get the kick off,' Winn said. http://www.cleveland...ly_winn_ac.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Factoring in durability trends and types of roles on special teams, this is the 46 guys I'm predicting will make our first active roster: Looks like we're on the same page with most of these guys......of course, there are 8 more names that can be added to achieve the 54 man roster....whew!...... No matter what, there's gonna be a few good names going to other teams.....the good part is we have the depth to let these guys go.....the bad part is they will end up making some big plays elsewhere and then we'll have to hear about it everytime...... HEY!!!.....why did we let "xyz guy" go???.....he made a great tackle....Farmer sucks......hahaha..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Housler will be our #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Love Billy's motor... but it's a lot more effective hauling around ten fewer Lbs or so. lol... the FG is another in a long line of topics we would have gone "at it" over. Two Ravens threatened the inside gap between Billy and Bito, but Billy failed to reroute the edge rusher... who got a fantastic jump. That said Billy manned up and took responsibility... http://www.cleveland...ly_winn_ac.html I'm glad Billy agreed with me that he was late getting out of his 2 point stance especially since he was the one that knew the snap count. Billy wasn't up on the line of scrimmage. He was on the edge of formation slightly behind and over from the last guy up on the line of scrimmage (with air tight splits between the two 300 pound fellers). Why would Billy have any need whatsoever to man up and take responsibility for not rerouting the edge rusher if Baltimore overloaded/charged that tiny split between him and Bitonio? Doesn't make any sense considering how many teammates and coaches were about to have access to that game film. They were either going to see him doing his job or refraining from it. Here's what Billy did understand. Even if he gave a lame effort to block the Rat - it would have been enough to change the angle of the untouched guy blocking the kick to making it impossible to block the kick. Let's not pretend getting out of a 2 point stance was asking way too much or that the ideal spot to get people through was between the wide bodies of Bitonio and Winn in kick protection splits. Billy's getting at least 6 figures so if one of his part time duties is as easy getting out of a 2 point stance to obstruct an angle - I don't have any problem holding him accountable to the standard I expect from a professional. I'd rather the appreciate little thing than hear excuses or an apology on a day the margin of defeat was a very doable FG. I know he's your boy but we both know Billy was capable of so much better on that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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