How does an Orchard treat QBs?

[Tour2ma]

No, it isn't "shit"....it's priceless good funny stuff.

Not in this case... at least not "funny" in the usual sense. Although claiming that "coverage sacks" cease to exist at elite levels is "funny".

 

 

war... don't fret. Flugs can be incredibly difficult to follow at times as was the case here in refuting a case to draft Peat at 12 which no one was making.

[calfoxwc]

Then you are back to being your dour, sour, pompous self. Mixin it up, are ya?

 

1. The really funny play on words was "Wattshisname.". I think that is great, a funny

play on words. That was the funny part.

 

2. Flugels said this:

 

"There is no such thing as a coverage sack for this type of tackle striving to be the next Walter Jones or Joe Thomas for that matter. "

 

Great LT's don't give up sacks simply because the coverage was excellent. They still shut out their

opponents. And the Browns didn't have any kind of great cast of wr's, either, and btw, look

at the secondaries of the defenses they face, in their division..

 

Then you said this:

 

"Flugs can be incredibly difficult to follow at times as was the case here in refuting a case to draft Peat at 12 which no one was making. "

 

Then you should read this:

 

http://dawgpounddaily.com/2015/01/16/andrus-peat-browns-draft-profile/

and this, in particular, Peat for the 12th pick:

http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2015/01/22/2015-nfl-draft-cleveland-browns-seven-round-mock-1-0/

[Flugel]

 

Then you are back to being your dour, sour, pompous self. Mixin it up, are ya?

 

1. The really funny play on words was "Wattshisname.". I think that is great, a funny

play on words. That was the funny part.

 

2. Flugels said this:

 

"There is no such thing as a coverage sack for this type of tackle striving to be the next Walter Jones or Joe Thomas for that matter. "

 

Great LT's don't give up sacks simply because the coverage was excellent. They still shut out their

opponents. And the Browns didn't have any kind of great cast of wr's, either, and btw, look

at the secondaries of the defenses they face, in their division..

 

Then you said this:

 

"Flugs can be incredibly difficult to follow at times as was the case here in refuting a case to draft Peat at 12 which no one was making. "

 

Then you should read this:

 

http://dawgpounddaily.com/2015/01/16/andrus-peat-browns-draft-profile/

and this, in particular, Peat for the 12th pick:

http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2015/01/22/2015-nfl-draft-cleveland-browns-seven-round-mock-1-0/

 

 

Cal, you are the man! Thanks for finding the party that wanted to start kiddie stuff drama again and calling it out. I already told that party if I made him that nervous he needed to put me on ignore. Not that I wasn't flattered by how often he needed to drop into whatever football conversation I was enjoying to give me his latest unprovoked insults or sarcasm. That's a guy keeping score and unhappy with what the scoreboard is telling him. I don't take little Yorkshire Terriers yapping at my ankles very seriously though. I guess if the only thing sitting in my trophy case was the game winning adjective against St Joe's Catholic High School in the Big Debate - maybe I'd be nervous a former offensive lineman was threatening my smartest guy in the room territory if that was the reason I needed to be here. He loves doing plastic surgery on everything I write so it looks exactly like he needs it to. The bigger picture is there's a lot of great fans in here like you and others that just want to talk football. That's all I want to do and I'm having a blast.

 

I also want to thank Couch for his help getting the discussion back to the appropriate context. He knew exactly where I was going because there isn't an offensive line coach in the country that wants to hear "it was a coverage sack." As much as Frye and Quinn seemed liked good kids, they were far too slow reading through their progressions for me to give a secondary credit for that. 2 separate entities or our 2007 season doesn't take the drastic turn it took as early was week 2 en route to 10 wins over the next 15 games. I'd love to see a guy that never wore a football uniform acting like he's the smartest guy in the room looking down his nose at an NFL oline coach and telling him: "you DO understand that was a coverage sack don't you?" I'd pay money to see it.

 

Thank you too Mud! To be honest, I thought War manned up. It's all good.

 

Let's FREAKIN talk football!!!!!

[miktoxic]

From what I remember as a kid this is what thanksgiving was like....watching loved ones rip each other to shreds over such great topics as you`re a lazy bum alcoholic to she`s a floozie.

 

What I wanna know is who sits at the kiddie table?

[Flugel]

 

 

Flugs can be incredibly difficult to follow at times as was the case here in refuting a case to draft Peat at 12 which no one was making.

 

I better get this back to its pre-surgery context. Those without agendas in here understand we drafted an Offensive Lineman in round 1. Consequently, they were much more willing to accept Jim O'Neil's comment about our 2 oline coaches saying Orchard was destroying chances of several top oline prospects from coming here. If somebody took Shelton before us, they had to be weighing oline choices for 12 so I see why you're having a hard time with O'Neil's comments.

 

Peat was your top rated tackle and if Orchard had 3 sacks against Stanford - somebody better find himself a coverage sack alibi for at least one of them in this thread. Did our 2 oline coaches talking to Jimmy O'Neil agree with your "coverage sacks" mentality in the trenches or did they help narrow down the choices at #12? I'm glad they're used to the Joe Thomas standard. We don't need 3 alibis per game from our blindside tackle.

 

Now that we drafted Cam Erving who has played Tackle AND Center - guess who's been most critical and parked on wait and see mode?

[Tour2ma]

Then you are back to being your dour, sour, pompous self. Mixin it up, are ya?

2. Flugels said this:

"There is no such thing as a coverage sack for this type of tackle striving to be the next Walter Jones or Joe Thomas for that matter. "

 

Great LT's don't give up sacks simply because the coverage was excellent. They still shut out their

opponents. And the Browns didn't have any kind of great cast of wr's, either, and btw, look

at the secondaries of the defenses they face, in their division..

 

Then you said this:

"Flugs can be incredibly difficult to follow at times as was the case here in refuting a case to draft Peat at 12 which no one was making. "

 

Then you should read this:

http://dawgpounddaily.com/2015/01/16/andrus-peat-browns-draft-profile/

 

and this, in particular, Peat for the 12th pick:

http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2015/01/22/2015-nfl-draft-cleveland-browns-seven-round-mock-1-0/

Pompous? Moi? Is that the same as elitist? Label away... It's something I rarely do. As for sour... so long as I stay away from the Politics forum my demeanor stays pretty upbeat.

 

Objectively speaking coverage sacks exist. I found it funny that someone said they did not... under any circumstance. I've seen Joe Thomas give up coverage sacks and I consider him great... as do you. Even Munoz, the heretofore unmentioned, greatest OT of all (IMO) gave up sacks of the coverage variety.

 

As for Peat... no one was making the case for our drafting him here... in this thread. But thanks for finding references that supported my opinion of him as a high pick. I still have him as the top OL prospect in the draft. Will that opinion hold? No idea...

 

But Flugs clearly liked your post... so good job.

[Tour2ma]

Cal, you are the man! Thanks for finding the party that wanted to start kiddie stuff drama again and calling it out. I already told that party if I made him that nervous he needed to put me on ignore. Not that I wasn't flattered by how often he needed to drop into whatever football conversation I was enjoying to give me his latest unprovoked insults or sarcasm. That's a guy keeping score and unhappy with what the scoreboard is telling him. I don't take little Yorkshire Terriers yapping at my ankles very seriously though. I guess if the only thing sitting in my trophy case was the game winning adjective against St Joe's Catholic High School in the Big Debate - maybe I'd be nervous a former offensive lineman was threatening my smartest guy in the room territory if that was the reason I needed to be here. He loves doing plastic surgery on everything I write so it looks exactly like he needs it to. The bigger picture is there's a lot of great fans in here like you and others that just want to talk football. That's all I want to do and I'm having a blast.

 

Let's FREAKIN talk football!!!!!

Talk football is all I do... except for having fun it's why I am here. Most folks here get that. A few don't. Congrats for making it to the top of the "don't" list.

 

We agree at times and I say so. We disagree at times and I say so. It's really that simple.

 

Your skin is just too thin. I tried tiptoeing around you for weeks and it's just not worth it because you are now predisposed to looking for "the insult" in my posts... and find ones that never were. Like apparently on Orchard having a coverage sack... which in case you are interested happened against Stanford's right tackle... not Peat. Did you even watch the Scout video I posted?

 

For someone who does not bother you I seem to draw a lot of fire... or at least words. But then you are the typing king... the original "insult".

 

I put your PMs on "Ignore"... they were too sad to read.

 

And I quit debate to play football...

 

Now let's talk football... if not immediately, then after your next indignant reply.

[Mudfly]

 

Let's FREAKIN talk football!!!!!

That is getting harder and harder to do....though I do try.....Dont honestly believe everyone is here to talk football tho.....so many post nothing but barbs....no football posts.....no football points to be made....no quality info to share.....no opinion except to say your opinion is wrong...

 

And when you do take the time and do some research.....it's considered being a know it all...or elitist....etc.....

 

It's exhausting to wade through....

 

Talk football is all I do... except for having fun it's why I am here. Most folks here get that. A few don't.

 

We agree at times and I say so. We disagree at times and I say so. It's really that simple..

I usually try to only talk football too.....though it's gotten to be almost impossible to get through a thread here w/o some type of personal attack or argument starting and completely derailing the discussion.....

 

Pragmatism apparently has no place on this board........

[OldBrownsFan]

There is a lot of good football information on this board. Excellent in fact. There are some who post on here I would rather read than any sports writer. It gets bogged down sometimes in arguing a silly point IMO. Still a great board I recommend to all my fellow Browns fans in this part of Ohio (who usually are about 24 hours late on finding out about any breaking story with the Browns which I usually find out about right away here).

[Flugel]

That is getting harder and harder to do....though I do try.....Dont honestly believe everyone is here to talk football tho.....so many post nothing but barbs....no football posts.....no football points to be made....no quality info to share.....no opinion except to say your opinion is wrong...

 

And when you do take the time and do some research.....it's considered being a know it all...or elitist....etc.....

 

It's exhausting to wade through....

 

Mud, you're exactly the kind of fan I enjoy talking football with.

1) You show up to threads that interest you.

2) You understand the value of reading posts in their proper sequence.

3) You actually read the posts you're replying to.

4) You're ready to put your game face on at any time.

5) When you notice somebody puts considerable thought and time into a post - you're appreciative enough of that to give respectful feedback.

6) You're always well informed which makes your posts interesting to read.

 

Certain times of the year can drag and that's when you tend to see good discussions turning into a college football argument or something else. That's not exclusive to just this board by any means. This part of the year I get pressed for time so I look for topic headings that interest me. Late Spring/Early Summer tends to be that way for a lot of people. I'm surprised I even went into the Manziel thread and posted because we've been on information overload with that guy.

 

The draft was refreshing because it got us thinking about where our team needed help. God Bless that Farmer getting us a volume of 12 draft picks. We should still have some fun stuff to talk about between now and Training Camp in Late July. I tend to find more time to post on the weekends. Hang in there man!

[Flugel]

There is a lot of good football information on this board. Excellent in fact. There are some who post on here I would rather read than any sports writer. It gets bogged down sometimes in arguing a silly point IMO. Still a great board I recommend to all my fellow Browns fans in this part of Ohio (who usually are about 24 hours late on finding out about any breaking story with the Browns which I usually find out about right away here).

 

Glad to see you in the mix posting. We're gonna have a fun year.

[OldBrownsFan]

Thanks Flugel. Pettine and Farmer are building a team here. The way both Farmer and Pettine spoke so highly about McCown makes me believe he was exactly the qb they were looking for to fit in their plans this year. By all accounts we had a great draft. This is a solid club that is continually improving their roster.

[wargograw]

How come pre-draft it was "no way we actually come away with 10 picks. We will trade some away." to "I'm so glad we have 12 picks."? Not trolling. Just making sure it's not a result of homerism.

[Flugel]

Not in this case... at least not "funny" in the usual sense. Although claiming that "coverage sacks" cease to exist at elite levels is "funny".

 

 

war... don't fret. Flugs can be incredibly difficult to follow at times as was the case here in refuting a case to draft Peat at 12 which no one was making.

 

Again, great job exposing the sore and sour Cal!

 

Memory lane:

Flugel starts football thread about Edge Rusher Cleveland drafted with a link of highlights.

 

Tour is more concerned about Andrus Peat's reputation so he provides links more about that with an undertone that a Stanford QB can get coverage sacked. Shame on me for remembering our inventory of coverage sacks on John Elway in all of our 3 AFC Championship Games back when we had our best tandem of corners.

 

Since we drafted Cam Erving at #19 - who can play Tackle or Center, I'm more intrigued with what he can do especially in threads about offensive line. Thankfully, so is both of our oline coaches. The good news is Joe Thomas rarely ever gives up 3 sacks a season despite all the substandard QBs he's had to protect in the last 8 years.

[Flugel]

How come pre-draft it was "no way we actually come away with 10 picks. We will trade some away." to "I'm so glad we have 12 picks."? Not trolling. Just making sure it's not a result of homerism.

 

Who is this unknown soldier you are refusing a cut and paste courtesy with?

[wargograw]

Those were both statements thrown all around the board.

[calfoxwc]

Warpo, I didn't get that. This board has differing opinions all over the place,

always did ! It's the "homerism" connection that isn't making sense, especially

since it's a Brownsboard, and not some forum on espn or some other general

sports forum.

[TexasAg1969]

There is a lot of good football information on this board. Excellent in fact. There are some who post on here I would rather read than any sports writer. It gets bogged down sometimes in arguing a silly point IMO. Still a great board I recommend to all my fellow Browns fans in this part of Ohio (who usually are about 24 hours late on finding out about any breaking story with the Browns which I usually find out about right away here).

 

Amen to both points. Although I do occasionally enjoy trading a jab or two just to see if there is a fish rising to the bait.

 

But back to the main thing here. This is going to be a fun board to go along with what is an intriguing season coming up. So many great new rookies mixed in with a lot of recovering players (read it both ways).and whether or not anyone says it openly, there will be a QB competition.

[The Gipper]

How come pre-draft it was "no way we actually come away with 10 picks. We will trade some away." to "I'm so glad we have 12 picks."? Not trolling. Just making sure it's not a result of homerism.

It was a matter of history. The previous year, the Farmer and the Browns traded away all their picks after the 4th round. The year before that the Lombardi and the Browns traded away like every pick between rounds 4-6, leaving only a couple of 7th rounders after round 3.. In some of those years we thought the Browns were going to have like 8-10 picks and they ended up with just 5-6.

I am good with the 12 we got. As noted in previous threads, of those 12 players, on various "drafted player rankings" services, we may have gotten as many as 8-9 of the Top 100 players available. Will all 12 work out, certainly not. Will like 8-9 of them work out...that is the hope. In some past years we might have been lucky to get 1 or 2 decent players out of a 12 player draft. I am confident that the Browns will do far far better than that out of this draft.

[Tour2ma]

Tour is more concerned about Andrus Peat's reputation so he provides links more about that with an undertone that a Stanford QB can get coverage sacked.

... you are now predisposed to looking for "the insult" in my posts... and find ones that never were. Like apparently on Orchard having a coverage sack... which in case you are interested happened against Stanford's right tackle... not Peat. Did you even watch the Scout video I posted?

[calfoxwc]

legit points <> insults

[Flugel]

How come pre-draft it was "no way we actually come away with 10 picks. We will trade some away." to "I'm so glad we have 12 picks."? Not trolling. Just making sure it's not a result of homerism.

 

This is a Cleveland Browns board so don't be surprised to see homers and passionate fans. You gave me a 9-12 digit number of how many times you had to tell people in here you're a Browns fan so that might be worth keeping in mind moving forward.

 

If there was a football messiah QB out there or an intriguing prospect at a position of need still in reach via tradeup, it's pre-draft conversation for fans of many teams. That said, I don't know how many fans of a team that was 4-12 as recently as 2013 are disappointed we ended up with 12 picks (especially considering the injury volume here in 2014).

 

Speaking of not trolling, what do you think of Nate Orchard or his highlights?

[Tour2ma]

How come pre-draft it was "no way we actually come away with 10 picks. We will trade some away." to "I'm so glad we have 12 picks."? Not trolling. Just making sure it's not a result of homerism.

I don't see the "homerism" angle. When we stand back and look at this draft there's a lot to like... regardless of how we thought it would go.

 

I, like many, predicted Farmer would deal away a couple picks jockeying for position or investing in the 2016 draft... just as he did in 2014 when he rolled out and up. Turned out for a variety of reasons he did less of the former (and what he did netted no change in our total) and none of the latter... at least not directly via pick trading.

 

Among the "variety of reasons" I think the biggest were him knowing the team and its needs better, and having scouted better thanks to having his team in place and the 2014 experience under their collective belts.

 

Indirectly he invested in a future pick by selecting Ifo Ekpre-Olomu since he won't see the field in 2015.

[Mudfly]

 

This is a Cleveland Browns board so don't be surprised to see homers and passionate fans. You gave me a 9-12 digit number of how many times you had to tell people in here you're a Browns fan so that might be worth keeping in mind moving forward.

 

Speaking of not trolling, what do you think of Nate Orchard or his highlights?

Surprise surprise.....Browns homers on the Browns hometown board.....who'd of thunk it was possible???

 

Youd think that after being told 936,476,872 times, a light would come on.....but, sometimes it just doesnt happen....

 

I don't see the "homerism" angle. When we stand back and look at this draft there's a lot to like... regardless of how we thought it would go.

 

I predicted Farmer would deal away a couple picks jockeying for position or investing in the 2016 draft... just as he did in 2014

 

Me too.....our recent draft history suggested it was a pretty good possibility and, with our depth, consolidating picks looked like a really good option.....

 

Though I didn't see anybody "declare" it would happen....at best, it was just normal speculation on the possibilities.....

 

Gotta say, I never expected the possibility that 7-8 rookies could make this team....let alone 12(which I still dont)....So the prospect of picking 4-5 players that wouldnt make the team seemed unlikely....especially if you could trade them out for fewer/higher/better picks....

 

Heck....maybe Farmer even tried to trade up(well never know)....but he definitely did pretty well with those late round picks and, as Tour pointed out, picked 2 that really are red shirts for 2016.....(Ekpre-Olomu and Telfer)

[wargograw]

Ok substitute homerism for delusion. Happy? Thanks for the explanations.

[wargograw]

 

This is a Cleveland Browns board so don't be surprised to see homers and passionate fans. You gave me a 9-12 digit number of how many times you had to tell people in here you're a Browns fan so that might be worth keeping in mind moving forward.

 

If there was a football messiah QB out there or an intriguing prospect at a position of need still in reach via tradeup, it's pre-draft conversation for fans of many teams. That said, I don't know how many fans of a team that was 4-12 as recently as 2013 are disappointed we ended up with 12 picks (especially considering the injury volume here in 2014).

 

Speaking of not trolling, what do you think of Nate Orchard or his highlights?

I love him. Love the production. Like I said earlier, not a lot of refinement for college pass rushers. It's not quite an art form like it is in the pros. So I think a lot of the guys that are able to produce off the edge are getting the rare excellent coaching OR know how to use their athleticism well. Well, I shouldn't say "or" because sometimes it's both, but usually you see just pure athletes making these kind of sack totals.

 

What strikes me is how much reading he was asked to do. Lots of great college pass rushers are asked to do that almost exclusively. So the fact that Orchard comes in with a sense of his defensive responsibilities excites me. He makes lots of plays against the run coming around the backside which is awesome.

 

Seems to have really great strength on the bull rush. Couple that with better coaching on his balance, lean, and finesse rush moves and we definitely have a good one. He's one of my favorite picks.

[Mudfly]

How come pre-draft it was "no way we actually come away with 10 picks. We will trade some away." to "I'm so glad we have 12 picks."? Not trolling. Just making sure it's not a result of homerism.

Ok substitute homerism for delusion. Happy? Thanks for the explanations.

So, speculating on how the draft will go makes Browns fans delusional.....ok, if you say so.....and THAT was an important point to make now???

 

To me, it just looks like another one of your attempts to simply derail a thread(for no reason what so ever).....but at least you're consistent....

 

Calling yourself a Browns fan, while continually poking them, doesnt really make sense.....Maybe now is a good time to restake your claim thats it's us always attacking you....

 

I will give you credit for at least trying to address the topic(Nate Orchard)....but only partial credit, because everyone had to stop the discussion to address your concerns about whether we properly predicted the number of draft picks......wtf??????

[wargograw]

I'm shocked you took it the wrong way. I'm not enough of a wordsmith to avoid your ability to read wrong things into what I'm saying, unfortunately.

 

I said that in response to Flugel saying "God Bless that Farmer getting us a volume of 12 draft picks." It was, as you say, "football discussion." But of course, despite him bringing it up, you blame me for changing the topic, per usual. I didn't want to make an entirely new thread just to ask a simple question so I piggybacked someone else's comment. Tour, unlike yourself, was able to address the question without getting butthurt about its being asked, and I thank him for that. Lighten up.

[Tour2ma]

I was going to say that given the two choices, I'd prefer to be called a homer...

 

.. but thanks for the thanks and you're welcome.

 

Bottom line... I think Farmer was far more confident he'd spend 12 - 2015 picks wisely than he would have 12 - 2014s... so he took his 2014 shots with UDFA where he was amazing. It'll be interesting to compare the results down the road.

 

 

Back on Orchard... What games should I watch for signs of him attending to the run? The couple I have watched have not exactly been full of that trait... not that it matters in the short-term as I expect him to be a situational, designated rusher for most of the 2015 campaign.

[wargograw]

I believe it was Colorado I saw. Let me find it for you when I get home.