Guest ATENEARS Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 I've been stating this since we returned to the league and was met with resistence often by the 'dine-a-dozen' crowd. The Cleveland Browns may have been of a Running Back mentality back in the Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly days ... but they left town in the E-Rocc era. Don Rogers may have been the difference in going to the show and not being able to make that last play, hell even Stevon Moore delivered the hits. Our last decade before leaving town was all about defensive back play, and we've established nothing since returning. Since we've been back, we've had under-acheiving Linebackers which were exposed greatly by no presence behind them (plueazzze Sean Jones had one blip season). Watching the NFL networks TOP-10 TACKLERS of All-time, it is amazing how many times they mention the phrase, 'GAME CHANGING HIT' and it was delivered by a Safety. Let's quick dicking around and get back to the basics of inflicting pain to opposing team ball carriers and receivers. Let's start taking someones head off. Win or Lose, let's get tough again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Dick Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 We have one, he's just at the wrong position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 We have one, he's just at the wrong position Who Stallworth? Yeah, that was the type of Big Hit I'm talking about ... just without the car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 I've been stating this since we returned to the league and was met with resistence often by the 'dine-a-dozen' crowd. The Cleveland Browns may have been of a Running Back mentality back in the Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly days ... but they left town in the E-Rocc era. Don Rogers may have been the difference in going to the show and not being able to make that last play, hell even Stevon Moore delivered the hits. Our last decade before leaving town was all about defensive back play, and we've established nothing since returning. Since we've been back, we've had under-acheiving Linebackers which were exposed greatly by no presence behind them (plueazzze Sean Jones had one blip season). Watching the NFL networks TOP-10 TACKLERS of All-time, it is amazing how many times they mention the phrase, 'GAME CHANGING HIT' and it was delivered by a Safety. Let's quick dicking around and get back to the basics of inflicting pain to opposing team ball carriers and receivers. Let's start taking someones head off. Win or Lose, let's get tough again. There are about 3 SSs taht are big time thumpers that will be available in round 2 and I think we need to jump on one of them. My favorite is Patrick Chung, but I also like William Moore and Chip Vaughn. Delmas may be the best all around FS/SS and is a good hitter who can play in the box. So, there are some good choices, we just need to grab one. And yes, everyone has some negative that can be found, but so did Bob Sanders and Troy Palu. We could also start at ILB with a guy like Maualuga who can knock some heads off. All we need to do is find a trade partner and move down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiperBowl Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 A hard hitting safety can be a game changer! He can make wide outs scared and running backs tremble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 A hard hitting safety can be a game changer! He can make wide outs scared and running backs tremble. Many don't realize that SS is an extremely important ingredient to a successful 3-4 defense. You need to be strong up the middle. NT, ILB and SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 I've been stating this since we returned to the league and was met with resistence often by the 'dine-a-dozen' crowd. The Cleveland Browns may have been of a Running Back mentality back in the Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly days ... but they left town in the E-Rocc era. Don Rogers may have been the difference in going to the show and not being able to make that last play, hell even Stevon Moore delivered the hits. Our last decade before leaving town was all about defensive back play, and we've established nothing since returning. Since we've been back, we've had under-acheiving Linebackers which were exposed greatly by no presence behind them (plueazzze Sean Jones had one blip season). Watching the NFL networks TOP-10 TACKLERS of All-time, it is amazing how many times they mention the phrase, 'GAME CHANGING HIT' and it was delivered by a Safety. Let's quick dicking around and get back to the basics of inflicting pain to opposing team ball carriers and receivers. Let's start taking someones head off. Win or Lose, let's get tough again. Don Rogers is not walking through that door... Eric Turner is not walking through that door... Who do you have in mind? Zombo --Thane Gash could deliver a blow too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Don Rogers is not walking through that door... Eric Turner is not walking through that door... Who do you have in mind? Zombo --Thane Gash could deliver a blow too Louis Delmas is a combo FS/SS. Good cover guy and a big hitter. Can play in the box or play in a cover 2 scheme. Patrick Chung, William Moore and chip Vaughn are all thumpers who play in the box and can lay some licks on runners. None are great cover guys, but all should be better cover guys then Jones and healthy too. A couple could move into the bottom of the first round but most should be available at #36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 I've been stating this since we returned to the league and was met with resistence often by the 'dine-a-dozen' crowd. The Cleveland Browns may have been of a Running Back mentality back in the Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly days ... but they left town in the E-Rocc era. Don Rogers may have been the difference in going to the show and not being able to make that last play, hell even Stevon Moore delivered the hits. Our last decade before leaving town was all about defensive back play, and we've established nothing since returning. Since we've been back, we've had under-acheiving Linebackers which were exposed greatly by no presence behind them (plueazzze Sean Jones had one blip season). Watching the NFL networks TOP-10 TACKLERS of All-time, it is amazing how many times they mention the phrase, 'GAME CHANGING HIT' and it was delivered by a Safety. Let's quick dicking around and get back to the basics of inflicting pain to opposing team ball carriers and receivers. Let's start taking someones head off. Win or Lose, let's get tough again. Good post Stan. I think if Sean Jones doesn't get surgically repaired twice on the same knee - he would have been terrific. In 2007, he was our defensive MVP if there was such a thing. In 2008 - I didn't see any such resemblence but undertood the guy was trying to play through pain and injury others wouldn't. When I saw USC's Taylor Mays playing at 235 pounds and then they said he runs 4.3s - I understood some of the collisions I saw him in. Physics. Unfortunately, Pete Carroll guilted his ass back to USC for another season. Prior to his decision to return to USC I put Mays up ahead of my 2 favorite LBers because I've seen the value of the RIGHT Safety when I've watched guys like: Eric Turner Don Rogers Carnell Lake Bob Sanders Troy Polly Ed Reed Sean Taylor Mike Brown Ronnie Lott Jack Tatum Todd Bell David Fulcher John Lynch Steve Atwater Here's the Top 10 Safeties According to Lindy's Draft Guide and the rounds they project each kid to go at. Y'town already astutely named some of these guys. I'm sure some of this changes as workouts and the combines unfolded new info: 1) William Moore FS - Missouri - 1st rd proj 2) Patrick Chung SS - Oregon - 2nd rd proj 3) Louis Delmas FS - Western Michigan - 2nd/3rd rd proj 4) Michael Hamlin SS - Clemson - 2nd/3rd rd proj 5) Derek Pegues FS - Mississippi State - 3rd rd proj 6) Chip Vaughn SS - Wake Forest - 3rd rd proj 7) Rashad Johnson FS - Alabama - 3rd/4th rd proj 8) Emanuel Cook SS - South Carolina - 3rd/4th rd proj 9) David Bruton FS - Notre Dame - 4th rd proj 10) Kevin Ellison SS - USC - 4th rd proj We need a Safety that's gonna make a Northcutt out of our opponents crossing the middle thinking "Damn, I forgot my ear plugs again today!" - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Good post Stan. I think if Sean Jones doesn't get surgically repaired twice on the same knee - he would have been terrific. In 2007, he was our defensive MVP if there was such a thing. In 2008 - I didn't see any such resemblence but undertood the guy was trying to play through pain and injury others wouldn't. When I saw USC's Taylor Mays playing at 235 pounds and then they said he runs 4.3s - I understood some of the collisions I saw him in. Physics. Unfortunately, Pete Carroll guilted his ass back to USC for another season. Prior to his decision to return to USC I put Mays up ahead of my 2 favorite LBers because I've seen the value of the RIGHT Safety when I've watched guys like: Eric Turner Don Rogers Carnell Lake Bob Sanders Troy Polly Ed Reed Sean Taylor Mike Brown Ronnie Lott Jack Tatum Todd Bell David Fulcher John Lynch Steve Atwater Here's the Top 10 Safeties According to Lindy's Draft Guide and the rounds they project each kid to go at. Y'town already astutely named some of these guys. I'm sure some of this changes as workouts and the combines unfolded new info: 1) William Moore FS - Missouri - 1st rd proj 2) Patrick Chung SS - Oregon - 2nd rd proj 3) Louis Delmas FS - Western Michigan - 2nd/3rd rd proj 4) Michael Hamlin SS - Clemson - 2nd/3rd rd proj 5) Derek Pegues FS - Mississippi State - 3rd rd proj 6) Chip Vaughn SS - Wake Forest - 3rd rd proj 7) Rashad Johnson FS - Alabama - 3rd/4th rd proj 8) Emanuel Cook SS - South Carolina - 3rd/4th rd proj 9) David Bruton FS - Notre Dame - 4th rd proj 10) Kevin Ellison SS - USC - 4th rd proj We need a Safety that's gonna make a Northcutt out of our opponents crossing the middle thinking "Damn, I forgot my ear plugs again today!" - Tom F. I agree about Mays. He might of been at the top of the first round. He seems to be a game changer. William Moore was super in 2007 and played 2008 injured and wasn't overly impressive. He had a decent combine, but blew it out of the water on his pro day. He is definately a SS but some scouts left there saying he could play either at the next level. He seems to be fully recovered from whatever his injury was this year, but still some have reservations about him. He has the size and the speed. I really like Patrick Chung, not as big as Moore and is a pure SS. He is a big hitter and some say he tries to put a punishing hit on everybody and sometimes doesn't wrap up. But, I'd rather have a guy I have to real back in a little then someone who is afraid to hit. Many list Delmas as a FS and he would most likely be the best type of safety for the scheme that Mangini and Ryan run because he is a very good cover guy but he can also play in the box and can lay a lick on a runner. He would be like Jones was in 2007 but a better in coverage. The SS position is about as deep as I can ever remember in a draft. Usually there are one or two but there are maybe 5 very good ones this year. I don't know much about Hamlin but if they got him rated above Chip Vaughn then he has shown them he can play. With that many SSs in the draft they seem to hang around a little longer because teams aren't afraid of getting shut out on them. I think we are crazy if we don't jump on one in the second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 I agree on safety, but unfortunately this isn't a very good draft for top safeties. I want one, but I think it will need to be a later round player......Vaughn is a 3rd round prospect who looks pretty good. Overall, I think next year is the year to think safety, and unless we improve a bunch, guys like Mays and Berry are perfect fits....though berry might be a top 5 pick...the guy is a beast. I am already pimping that guy as our pick next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 ..though berry might be a top 5 pick...the guy is a beast. I am already pimping that guy as our pick next year. Not too positive an outlook on the 2009 season then, eh 'peen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 the E-Rocc era.......let's get tough again. one of my all-time favorite players. i used to zero in on him all game, he was fun to watch. i agree, strong safeties are crucial. pun intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 We definately need a hard hitting safety we havent had a real true fumble inducing pain making safety since the expansion and i dont see none available in FA or the upcoming draft..Cribbs could likely fill that role very well and fairly fast he has killer safety written all over him.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geech Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 1) William Moore FS - Missouri - 1st rd proj ... 3) Louis Delmas FS - Western Michigan - 2nd/3rd rd proj - Tom F. Safety seems to be an afterthought with most GMs, which is why they are so easily found in the 2nd round, aside from the Lotts, Taylors, Pollys and Turners. I think Lindy's got these two fellas mixed up. Delmas is the 1st round talent while Moore is the 2nd/3rd round guy. -Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KardiacKid26 Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I'd like to see William Moore or Chip Vaughn be brought in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Safety seems to be an afterthought with most GMs, which is why they are so easily found in the 2nd round, aside from the Lotts, Taylors, Pollys and Turners. I think Lindy's got these two fellas mixed up. Delmas is the 1st round talent while Moore is the 2nd/3rd round guy. -Al They didn't get them mixed up, they must have watched Moore's pro day. Delmas is falling and Moore is climbing up on most boards. If you want a SS this may be the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I agree on safety, but unfortunately this isn't a very good draft for top safeties. I want one, but I think it will need to be a later round player......Vaughn is a 3rd round prospect who looks pretty good. Overall, I think next year is the year to think safety, and unless we improve a bunch, guys like Mays and Berry are perfect fits....though berry might be a top 5 pick...the guy is a beast. I am already pimping that guy as our pick next year. I may have to respectfully disagree with you on that. This may be the deepest year for impact SSs that I have seen in a lon, long time. Delmas, Moore and Chung could start from day one for half the teams in the league. Chip Vaughn may be a nice value pick in the 3rd round. He's a hitter and has a lot of upside. From day one he would be a better cover man then Jones ever was and he is a hitter also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 He can make wide outs scared and running backs tremble. Though true (I guess), that's one of the gayest things I've read here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 That's cool man...that is what this time of year is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaygroundLegend Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I like moore with our second! He is nasty! Especially if were able to get another first by trading BE or someone, and scoop up Maualuga. My Dream Draft goes Maualuga, Orapko, Moore, Jennings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sez.EJ Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I don't know if any of the top safety's in this draft are the "dominators" we are looking for.. Fact is, i believe we are still going have to draft one high, based upon who is on the roster right now. Or trade for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I've been stating this since we returned to the league and was met with resistence often by the 'dine-a-dozen' crowd. The Cleveland Browns may have been of a Running Back mentality back in the Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly days ... but they left town in the E-Rocc era. Don Rogers may have been the difference in going to the show and not being able to make that last play, hell even Stevon Moore delivered the hits. Our last decade before leaving town was all about defensive back play, and we've established nothing since returning. Since we've been back, we've had under-acheiving Linebackers which were exposed greatly by no presence behind them (plueazzze Sean Jones had one blip season). Watching the NFL networks TOP-10 TACKLERS of All-time, it is amazing how many times they mention the phrase, 'GAME CHANGING HIT' and it was delivered by a Safety. Let's quick dicking around and get back to the basics of inflicting pain to opposing team ball carriers and receivers. Let's start taking someones head off. Win or Lose, let's get tough again. First off Stan, your wrong (IMHO) about the whole premise of this thread. Safeties hard hitting are the least important part of a football team. Safeties that can make make interceptions are a very important part of a football team. Massively important! Further safeties that can actually grab on and hold on as the last resort are also very important. NONE more important than a corner who is disruptive and shuts people down. Then again in the front seven, if you play a 4-3 two dominant pass rushers on especially ends in the front four make a D dominant. And if you play a 3-4 those ILB guys if they are run stuffers coupled with two OLB's who can do it all including crushing a QB (ie Pittsburgh) make for a good D But none of this is as important than OFFENSE.............See all as opposed to popular opinion Offense wins FOOTBALL GAMES......Bill Belichick will never tell the herd this.......but he knows it and if he pronounces it.........well hell his secret ingredient just got demolished All highly successful franchises always could do two things well PASS the BALL and RUN the BALL Stan get with the program.......rich always got it and if this place listens and the Browns listen well winning will be easy..........GO BROWNS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Zombo beat me to the punch with Thane Gash - he even had the name for a hard hitting safety. When we first came back into the league I hated watching our safeties (and linebackers) bounce of of Corey Dillon and Jamal Lewis. and about every other physical back we faced. I can remember this latest group of safeties being the group that were supposed to bring some enforcement to the defensive backfield. besides hard hitting I want sure tackling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 First off Stan, your head is still upurass about the whole premise of this thread. Safeties hard hitting are the least important part of a football team. Safeties that can make make interceptions are a very important part of a football team. Massively important! Further safeties that can actually grab on and hold on as the last resort are also very important. Ahhh ... the 'dime-a-dozen' guy surfaces. Rich has been telling me for years how the safety position doesn't matter. Did these guys (below) make their name by being ankle-grabbers and holding on for bigger tougher guys to assist them on tackles, or did they seperate the receiver or running back from the ball, causing turn-overs, alligator arms, and boosting the morale of all their teammates by making the 'Big Hit' game-in and game-out? Eric Turner Don Rogers Carnell Lake Bob Sanders Troy Polly Ed Reed Sean Taylor Mike Brown Ronnie Lott Jack Tatum Todd Bell David Fulcher John Lynch Steve Atwater These guys had as much to do with run support than they did coverage. Many of these guys could also be labeled 'ball hawks' but basically they had great football instincts, played farther off the ball than line-backers, and "erased mistakes" all over the field, making their clubs better. That is the exact recipe needed for this program, and always has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Stan, you get it. SS is one of the most important positions in a 3-4 defensive scheme. You have to have that man who can come up in the box and lay a hit on a guy. When you watch great defensive teams most have a thumper as a Safety for run support. When you stop the run you can make a team one dimentional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Ahhh ... the 'dime-a-dozen' guy surfaces. Rich has been telling me for years how the safety position doesn't matter. Did these guys (below) make their name by being ankle-grabbers and holding on for bigger tougher guys to assist them on tackles, or did they seperate the receiver or running back from the ball, causing turn-overs, alligator arms, and boosting the morale of all their teammates by making the 'Big Hit' game-in and game-out? Eric Turner Don Rogers Carnell Lake Bob Sanders Troy Polly Ed Reed Sean Taylor Mike Brown Ronnie Lott Jack Tatum Todd Bell David Fulcher John Lynch Steve Atwater These guys had as much to do with run support than they did coverage. Many of these guys could also be labeled 'ball hawks' but basically they had great football instincts, played farther off the ball than line-backers, and "erased mistakes" all over the field, making their clubs better. That is the exact recipe needed for this program, and always has been. I LOVE that list - where have I seen it before? Just kidding - GOOD stuff in a great thread. Teams deep in the playoffs in the last few years have been there via BIG-PLAY guys like Bob Sanders, Ed Reed and Pollyneedsahaircut. Didn't Polly score the last TD on Baltimore? Taylor Mays LOOKED like alot of guys on that list - I was stunned and bummed when I saw he went back to USC for another year. MEN don't need to play against boys when they can play against MEN. Mays wants another year of playing with boys and all I can say to that is GOOSEFRABBA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Tom F. (Like Skippy says, we need to get back to playing kill the guy with the ball. It's alot more attractive than watch us chase our tails) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Here are highlight reels of some of the top safeties in this year's draft. If you click on the prospect's name, you'll get a scouting report on the prospect. And if you click on the title of the clip, a larger, higher quality copy will open up in a new tab/window. Louis Delmas, #9, Western Michigan Patrick Chung, #15, Oregon Stephen Hodge, #29, Boise State Michael Hamlin, #25, Clemson Courtney Greene, #36, Rutgers William Moore, #1, Missouri Chip Vaughn, #9, Wake Forest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timugen Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 I agree on safety, but unfortunately this isn't a very good draft for top safeties. I want one, but I think it will need to be a later round player......Vaughn is a 3rd round prospect who looks pretty good. Overall, I think next year is the year to think safety, and unless we improve a bunch, guys like Mays and Berry are perfect fits....though berry might be a top 5 pick...the guy is a beast. I am already pimping that guy as our pick next year. Wait a minute. My eyes must deceive me. Is this ballpeen actually taking into account players that will be available next year to influence who we should pick in this year's draft? I'm pretty sure I remember Mr. Peen, just a few days ago, espousing the idea that you should NOT take into account next year's available players when considering who/what to select this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Wait a minute. My eyes must deceive me. Is this ballpeen actually taking into account players that will be available next year to influence who we should pick in this year's draft? I'm pretty sure I remember Mr. Peen, just a few days ago, espousing the idea that you should NOT take into account next year's available players when considering who/what to select this year. Personally, I think this is a very good draft at the Strong Safety position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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