OldBrownsFan Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 do you see how you've been brainwashed? That statement right there is empirical proof of what's been done to our minds. Because someone can't definitely prove what you believe to be false, you believe it to be true even though the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming that while there was likely a man named Jesus walking around some time ago....the bollocks that we've been fed about who and what he was is viewed as irrefutably correct by vast numbers of people in this world. The evidence that the bible, especially the OT, is horridly irrelevant in this world is overwhelming. Unless you believe things like that women are property, to be bartered and transferred around as such. Now who do we currently know that's up to no good somewhere that feels this ideological "right" to females? I won't argue you that by definition of being a believer you cannot constantly at the same time be doubting everything. The bible is a faith book that produces faith when read and believed. God will not push Himself on anyone and for millions of believers like myself we know who is the way, the truth (reality) and the life. You can call it being brainwashed but the bible calls it getting our minds renewed with the word of God. As believers we walk by faith not by sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 I won't argue you that by definition of being a believer you cannot constantly at the same time be doubting everything. The bible is a faith book that produces faith when read and believed. God will not push Himself on anyone and for millions of believers like myself we know who is the way, the truth (reality) and the life. You can call it being brainwashed but the bible calls it getting our minds renewed with the word of God. As believers we walk by faith not by sight. Swap in a few "Allahs" and "Qurans" and we've got a few posters here that would not like you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Not as well liked as much as you? That is a chance I am willing to take. Oh, I don't really mind. Most posters on here I have no issue with, and I hope they have no issue with me. If others don't like me saying things they disagree with, there isn't much I can do about it. I have no issue with you either. You seem like a nice guy. I just think you hold some pretty dumb beliefs, and that you willingness to shun any evidence that disagrees with you is pretty idiotic. I guess religion does that to people though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 no issue with that sentiment until you start holding your particular beleifs over people who don't share it. Abortion is a prime example. Why should a woman not be able to do with her body what she pleases because some people "beleive" that to be wrong of her? Why? Why should someone spend a solitary minute in jail for helping someone else who is terminally ill end their life? Your kind has always imposed their particular beleifs on others to the point of going to war. I have zero issue with religious people so long as they keep it to themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 no issue with that sentiment until you start holding your particular beleifs over people who don't share it. Abortion is a prime example. Why should a woman not be able to do with her body what she pleases because some people "beleive" that to be wrong of her? Why? Why should someone spend a solitary minute in jail for helping someone else who is terminally ill end their life? Your kind has always imposed their particular beleifs on others to the point of going to war. I have zero issue with religious people so long as they keep it to themselves I don't think anybody likes things forced on them. I know I don't. On abortion I see a separate life involved that needs protection. I defend my beliefs but I really don't try and push them on anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 I don't think anybody likes things forced on them. I know I don't. On abortion I see a separate life involved that needs protection. I defend my beliefs but I really don't try and push them on anyone. a seperate life that requires the mothers body to sustain itself, therefor it falls under her jurisdiction. So anytime you vote for a politician based on his abortion record, which I know you all do, than you're pushing it on others. There's no way to talk around that. As long as abortion is a political issue it means there are people who are trying to push their beliefs on those who don't want govt telling them what to do with their own bodies. Rand is right about the far right, they hate big govt until they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 a seperate life that requires the mothers body to sustain itself, therefor it falls under her jurisdiction. So anytime you vote for a politician based on his abortion record, which I know you all do, than you're pushing it on others. There's no way to talk around that. As long as abortion is a political issue it means there are people who are trying to push their beliefs on those who don't want govt telling them what to do with their own bodies. Rand is right about the far right, they hate big govt until they don't. A separate life non the less. Speaking for myself I would not vote for a dog catcher if they were not pro life. Voting is not pushing your views on anyone, voting is voting and you have to have the majority of the votes to get anything accomplished. If you have enough votes then the majority has spoken. Rand is pro life himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkHole Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 "Today, we have two Vietnams, side by side, North and South, exchanging and working," she said. "We may not agree with all that North Vietnam is doing, but they are living in peace. I would look for a better human rights record for North Vietnam, but they are living side by side." - Sheila Jackson Lee https://youtu.be/XK3rTUgoQD4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkHole Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkHole Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Colleges...where liberal fucknuts are bred and nurtured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 a seperate life that requires the mothers body to sustain itself, therefor it falls under her jurisdiction. So anytime you vote for a politician based on his abortion record, which I know you all do, than you're pushing it on others. There's no way to talk around that. As long as abortion is a political issue it means there are people who are trying to push their beliefs on those who don't want govt telling them what to do with their own bodies. Rand is right about the far right, they hate big govt until they don't. You could make this argument about a 9 mo old that is breastfed. Who's willing to shove a coat hanger into the top of a 9 mo old's head? Show of hands? I have 2 kids under 10 that probably wouldn't last too long w/o mom or dad around either. Can't toss them in the dumpster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 are you saying there's no example of a republican who won re election despite saying something comically stupid? Aren't alot of said goofs running for president again? George W Bush got re-elected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 A separate life non the less. Speaking for myself I would not vote for a dog catcher if they were not pro life. Voting is not pushing your views on anyone, You just said you wouldn't vote for a dog catcher if he wasn't pro life, but that's not pushing your views on anyone? What does said dog catchers opinion on abortion impact his ability to catch fucking dogs? It doesn't. So in doing so you ABSOLUTELY are pushing your views on everyone. Please understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 You could make this argument about a 9 mo old that is breastfed. Who's willing to shove a coat hanger into the top of a 9 mo old's head? Show of hands? I have 2 kids under 10 that probably wouldn't last too long w/o mom or dad around either. Can't toss them in the dumpster. This argument has already been done. A baby can be bottlefed and be more or less fine. Hell they could probably make a robot these days that could bottle feed a baby through it's infancy. It's just not the same as when it's inside her. Once it's outside that baby can't kill the mother can it? But when it's inside...it can absolutely kill the woman. ONe of my best friend was a staunch pro lifer, still kind of is but it's not like before....when his wife was pregnant the first time she had complications and the Dr's told them there was a small but substantial chance that she might not make it and the child for sure will be damaged. But they went through with it cause they're hardcore Catholics. Well the baby was still birthed and she almost died. Was the worst time of my buddies life waiting to hear if his wife was gonna make it. He told me later that he took a look at the fetus of the kid and he said he was relieved it hadn't made it. He was like that kid was gonna be horribly disfigured and barely alive for most of it's life. They were actually lucky that the still birth didn't ruin her chances of conceiving in the future...now they've got two little stud boys who you can already tell are gonna be powerlifters like they're mom and dad. This is why I seethe at pro lifers who think that Dr's are telling women to abort at the first sign of trouble like they want women to abort abort abort. No, when Dr's tell you there's a 10-20% chance your baby will be still born and take you out with it, you abort...end of discussion. I mean if women still want to take the risk that's fine, that's their "CHOICE"...but to hold that choice on others I think is the very seat of evil. Pure evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 You just said you wouldn't vote for a dog catcher if he wasn't pro life, but that's not pushing your views on anyone? What does said dog catchers opinion on abortion impact his ability to catch fucking dogs? It doesn't. So in doing so you ABSOLUTELY are pushing your views on everyone. Please understand that. The overwhelming number of abortions are for convenience (99.31 %). I don't see voting as pushing views as the majority rules. As a member of right to life we work to elect pro life candidates and pass pro life legislation. Bottom line though we have to have the votes to get these things accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 So u are infact pushing ur views on others by voting for people specifically baded on their abortion stance. How exactly do u think ur "not" pushing ur views on others when ur trying to get a behavior that u font agree with made illegal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
progressive Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Women have a right to choose whether or not to have a child. Men have no place in the equation. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 The overwhelming number of abortions are for convenience (99.31 %). I don't see voting as pushing views as the majority rules. As a member of right to life we work to elect pro life candidates and pass pro life legislation. Bottom line though we have to have the votes to get these things accomplished. Where is your statistic from and how is "convenience" defined? Just curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Where is your statistic from and how is "convenience" defined? Just curious... 99.31% of Abortions Done for Convenience, Not Health Sometimes pro-choicers argue that abortion must be legal because women often have health problems that make it impossible to carry a pregnancy to term.. Also, they say that many unborn babies that are aborted were deformed or defective in some way. Putting aside the issues that many abortionists have said there are no true reasons why women need an abortion for her health and that many of the babies aborted for defect have manageable illnesses like down syndrome, the vast majority of abortions are for elective reasons. These reasons include a mother not wanting the child interfere with her career, not wanting to be single mother, not wanting to put her baby up for adoption, or simply not wanting another child. Here are the statistics: from 1980 to 2000 – 99.31% of abortions annually were for non-therapeutic reasons 5460 were for health of mother — that is .36% 3640 were for fetal defects — that is .24% 1,506,770 are for social cases- that is 99.31% http://clinicquotes.com/99-31-of-abortions-not-done-for-health-reasons/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 So u are infact pushing ur views on others by voting for people specifically baded on their abortion stance. How exactly do u think ur "not" pushing ur views on others when ur trying to get a behavior that u font agree with made illegal? When the minority forces their will over the majority I see that as pushing views. I see voting as democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Well, if anything other than the health of the mother is considered "convenience", then you're probably close to being right. I can't imagine rape, incest, and health issues with the mother represent a very large portion of abortions. I still see nothing wrong with them though, when done in a reasonable amount of time. An abortion is a better option over adding a child to the world where the mother can't/won't adequately take care of it (which could be for a number of reasons). Tell me though OBF, since you're a man of science, at what point do you believe abortion should be illegal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 When the minority forces their will over the majority I see that as pushing views. I see voting as democracy. Well in this case, even if pro abortion people were the minority...it's not pushing their will on you. A woman 5 states away who has an abortion doesn't affect you "IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM" end of discussion. Nor would a woman who's your neighbor have any effect on you whatsoever if she had an abortion. Your life is not put out in any measurable metric. So people wanting to have that innate right to do with their bodies what they chose isn't pushing their views on anyone, it's just a right. The hypocrisy here is actually mind numbing. Look at the shitstorm that follows Atheists attempts to get things like the 10 commandments removed from public buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Well in this case, even if pro abortion people were the minority...it's not pushing their will on you. A woman 5 states away who has an abortion doesn't affect you "IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM" end of discussion. Nor would a woman who's your neighbor have any effect on you whatsoever if she had an abortion. Your life is not put out in any measurable metric. So people wanting to have that innate right to do with their bodies what they chose isn't pushing their views on anyone, it's just a right. The hypocrisy here is actually mind numbing. Look at the shitstorm that follows Atheists attempts to get things like the 10 commandments removed from public buildings. A murder 5 states away doesn't affect me either but it doesn't make it right. People can do what they want with their bodies but that baby is a whole new life. Pro choice is just a sanitized word for murdering a baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 A murder 5 states away doesn't affect me either but it doesn't make it right. People can do what they want with their bodies but that baby is a whole new life. Pro choice is just a sanitized word for murdering a baby. And that is exactly true. I don't think there's any argument except that whether or not we care about it. It certainly isn't about the viability of the fetus because as legacy pointed out, I believe, a baby isn't really viable for quite a while after birth. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Using abortion as an example of people pushing religious beliefs is a bad argument to begin with. It's certainly not just religious people who are 'pro-life' and this is a difficult issue for a lot of people, and needs to be discussed at a national level. Of course, using someone's religious beliefs as a criterion for 'dog catcher' is just plain stupid. Pushing religious beliefs is more along the lines of 'people did something the bible doesn't like and god is mad and punishing our country so we must 'remove' the people who did the bad thing and make the bad thing illegal' or 'god spoke to me in a dream and told me a flood is coming, so we don't need a military and I'm going to spend all the money on building an ark' or shit like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Using abortion as an example of people pushing religious beliefs is a bad argument to begin with. It's certainly not just religious people who are 'pro-life' and this is a difficult issue for a lot of people, and needs to be discussed at a national level. Of course, using someone's religious beliefs as a criterion for 'dog catcher' is just plain stupid. Pushing religious beliefs is more along the lines of 'people did something the bible doesn't like and god is mad and punishing our country so we must 'remove' the people who did the bad thing and make the bad thing illegal' or 'god spoke to me in a dream and told me a flood is coming, so we don't need a military and I'm going to spend all the money on building an ark' or shit like that. "Of course, using someone's religious beliefs as a criterion for 'dog catcher' is just plain stupid." ....figure of speech Chris, our dog catcher is not even an elected office here. On principal I will not vote for any legislative candidate who is pro abortion. I am not seeing much pushing of religion today. What I am seeing being pushed is political correctness. THAT is what is being pushed today. If we did not have the wisdom of the founders of this country free speech would probably be total toast right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 "Of course, using someone's religious beliefs as a criterion for 'dog catcher' is just plain stupid." ....figure of speech Chris, our dog catcher is not even an elected office here. On principal I will not vote for any legislative candidate who is pro abortion. I am not seeing much pushing of religion today. What I am seeing being pushed is political correctness. THAT is what is being pushed today. If we did not have the wisdom of the founders of this country free speech would probably be total toast right now. Of course, I was just continuing with the metaphor. Would you, for example, employ someone who was pro-abortion? Or work for someone with such views? What I'm seeing is the only real opposition to gay rights coming from religious groups; atheists being excluded from holding office; and by far the biggest, anyone running for president would immediately lose if (s)he did not profess all-consuming and life-shaping belief in the bible, whether they actually believe that or not. The US would, it seems, rather have a janitor with a bible for president than a rocket-scientist/economist former major general who didn't happen to believe in god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 As opposed to an insane and brutal European style dictator with genecidal tendencies just because his socialist/communist party is in favor of eliminating religion? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 As opposed to an insane and brutal European style dictator with genecidal tendencies just because his socialist/communist party is in favor of eliminating religion? WSS I'm not really sure what point you think you're making? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.