choco Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 which just shows it wasn't the finger that got him benched...it was the decision-making. thanks for the help making our point PGL. holy shit...someones payin attention! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 was he turning the corner or just running for his life to the sidelines? i agree he has the tools but watch him, every play he takes it out of bounds and generally tries to avoid contact. this was not the best example but it is a big issue w/ this guy. he seems to be a bit of a pussy when it comes to getting those extra couple yards. it's glaring to me, curious how most don't even notice. from NFL.com: 72 yd TD run, Off-tackle vs Bills The entire center of the field is closing in on the hole he sees at the left hashmark and he bolts through it anyway (complete with contact! ) The look on RAC's face after the TD is priceless (0:24). During the game, I turned to my dad and said, "I bet he just asked for a media guide to find out who #35 is" Or: MNF DA-Cribbs-JH reverse Pay particular attention to the replays & watch where his facemask looks in slow-mo. His vision is sick. Or: TD catch out of the Backfield vs Ratbirds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClevelandSound Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Just my two cents here. What I also see with these signings are them bringing in guys who are "their" guys who will be in sync with their philosophy and be expected to work in the locker room to get the rest of the team to "buy in" to mangini's way. A guy like Patton can go a long way in showing BE how things are going to be done under this new regime, and hopefully convince him to put his full effort into it. What happens when the Browns end up having a winning season this year? Is everyone going to jump on the bandwagon and say they knew it the whole time and always had faith in Mangini? Any given Sunday. I think we will have a winning season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 from NFL.com: 72 yd TD run, Off-tackle vs Bills The entire center of the field is closing in on the hole he sees at the left hashmark and he bolts through it anyway (complete with contact! ) The look on RAC's face after the TD is priceless (0:24). During the game, I turned to my dad and said, "I bet he just asked for a media guide to find out who #35 is" Or: MNF DA-Cribbs-JH reverse Pay particular attention to the replays & watch where his facemask looks in slow-mo. His vision is sick. Or: TD catch out of the Backfield vs Ratbirds i want him to work out too Legacy. if they had him returning some kicks i really think it would have been a good move, towards both toughening him up and utilizing his jukes and vision. he still runs out of bounds every time he's not breaking one though. still, it's redeemable, and we've got him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 i want him to work out too Legacy. if they had him returning some kicks i really think it would have been a good move, towards both toughening him up and utilizing his jukes and vision. he still runs out of bounds every time he's not breaking one though. still, it's redeemable, and we've got him. Yeah, I know that you do. I was just providing some evidence to support a generalization that you'd be hard-pressed to find any pussies in the NFL. Northcrud, maybe, but not too many. As the tape shows, he's got speed & vision, I'm just not so sure what cutting back into 3 pursuing LB's & a DE that you just made look silly 5 yards ago would accomplish outside of shortening your career. In the rare instance we get ahead late in a game, then obviously he needs to learn how to trip over his shoelaces before running out-of-bounds. Arbitrarily running into guys who are trying to tackle you only helps them out, imo. Unless you're Brandon Jacobs - who easily has 50-60 lbs on our boy here- and even he isn't Tecmo-BO, and still gets brought down. *edit* That said, I do (and always have) love the smash-mouth running potential that JL has. Make him our short yardage guy, that way he doesnt feel the need to "shorten the chains" or take time off the clock, or block on pass-plays, etc. Line him up 4yds behind the QB, and just have him cross that line that's 2-3 yds away. Either the goal line or the 1st down line. Restructure his (no-doubt) feature back deal into a TD/1st down deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Yeah, I know that you do. I was just providing some evidence to support a generalization that you'd be hard-pressed to find any pussies in the NFL. Northcrud, maybe, but not too many. As the tape shows, he's got speed & vision, I'm just not so sure what cutting back into 3 pursuing LB's & a DE that you just made look silly 5 yards ago would accomplish outside of shortening your career. In the rare instance we get ahead late in a game, then obviously he needs to learn how to trip over his shoelaces before running out-of-bounds. Arbitrarily running into guys who are trying to tackle you only helps them out, imo. Unless you're Brandon Jacobs - who easily has 50-60 lbs on our boy here- and even he isn't Tecmo-BO, and still gets brought down. *edit* That said, I do (and always have) love the smash-mouth running potential that JL has. Make him our short yardage guy, that way he doesnt feel the need to "shorten the chains" or take time off the clock, or block on pass-plays, etc. Line him up 4yds behind the QB, and just have him cross that line that's 2-3 yds away. Either the goal line or the 1st down line. Restructure his (no-doubt) feature back deal into a TD/1st down deal. I've always said that Franco Harris was famous for running out of bounds. Yet he was a great back. I'm with Legacy on this one....Unless you are trying to get another foot for a first down then I have no problem with running out of bounds. Save yourself the pounding so you don't end up like Earl Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 What happens when the Browns end up having a winning season this year? Is everyone going to jump on the bandwagon and say they knew it the whole time and always had faith in Mangini? Any given Sunday. I think we will have a winning season. You are posting at the home of bandwagon fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSixPat Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 That's called playing "mind games" with other teams. No teams are being fooled by such "mind games" - it's apparent to everyone that either Quinn or Anderson are up for trade. Browns fans shouldn't assume that the best QB stays in Cleveland. The one who wins could well be traded for the higher draft pick, leaving the 2nd place - but potentially only slighltly less mediocre QB to play for the Browns. And that's not necessarilly an unwise thing to do... But of course McDaniels is attempting to play the same sort of "mind games" by saying Cutler's their QB, and no one is fooled by that either... one wonders if Mangini, who has been gun shy about big deals since joining the Browns, would pull the trigger on such a trade. Personally, I don't see that you guys have anything to lose... add Cutler and I think you could sneak up on some teams and win a bunch of games. Neither Brady nor Anderson give me that feeling about this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 What happens when the Browns end up having a winning season this year? Is everyone going to jump on the bandwagon and say they knew it the whole time and always had faith in Mangini? Any given Sunday. I think we will have a winning season. Most may not agree with me but I'd be shocked if the Browns didn't go 7-9 or 8-8. That's not a homer speaking. That looking at the schedule and coming to a simple conclusion....Oakland, Buffalo, Kansas City, Jacksonville, Detroit, Denver, Cincy twice. I think the Browns could win 7 damn near by accident. You could even see another 10-6 type of year. That's why we saw Atlanta and Miami do what they did this year. Miami goes from 1-15 to a miraculous 11-5!! The wonder of the NFL scheduling formula! A lot of the experts will picking Miami to be something like 11-5 or 12-4 in 2009. My guess is they'll be 7-9 or 8-8 at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewDago Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Most may not agree with me but I'd be shocked if the Browns didn't go 7-9 or 8-8. That's not a homer speaking. That looking at the schedule and coming to a simple conclusion....Oakland, Buffalo, Kansas City, Jacksonville, Detroit, Denver, Cincy twice. I think the Browns could win 7 damn near by accident. You could even see another 10-6 type of year. count me in the camp of people who respectfully disagree. i see KC and detroit as the winnable games next year, and everyone else is easily capable of beating us. jacksonville will rebound after a disappointing season that was laden with expectations, denver has the receivers to burn us over and over if we don't get a pass rush, cincy has chad johnson and ran all over us last year, buffalo has enough lee evans and T.O., so they could easily burn us all night in the passing game, and oakland was playing better towards the end of last year under tom cable and can run the ball pretty well. all six of those games will be hard wins for us at the very least. regardless of what we do in the draft, i don't see us doing better than 5-11, with 3-13 a more likely scenario, because we simply don't have enough playmakers on either side of the ball to turn the tide in our favor. the only way we win even five games is if some other teams have catastrophic collapses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 count me in the camp of people who respectfully disagree. i see KC and detroit as the winnable games next year, and everyone else is easily capable of beating us. jacksonville will rebound after a disappointing season that was laden with expectations, denver has the receivers to burn us over and over if we don't get a pass rush, cincy has chad johnson and ran all over us last year, buffalo has enough lee evans and T.O., so they could easily burn us all night in the passing game, and oakland was playing better towards the end of last year under tom cable and can run the ball pretty well. all six of those games will be hard wins for us at the very least. regardless of what we do in the draft, i don't see us doing better than 5-11, with 3-13 a more likely scenario, because we simply don't have enough playmakers on either side of the ball to turn the tide in our favor. the only way we win even five games is if some other teams have catastrophic collapses. I'm sure there were Dolphins fans saying the same thing you were going in to the '08 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Let's wait till after the draft to even begin with these crazy predictions please? Man law? Hey Mikey.....I seriously doubt the draft is going to have that big of an influence on people's predictions. Secondly, my half hearted attempt at being facetious was based on schedule. Not on what players will be coming in after the draft. But I promise....No more crazy predictions from me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewDago Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm sure there were Dolphins fans saying the same thing you were going in to the '08 season. you're probably right. i'm a pessimist by nature, and i don't really see a significant upgrade of talent going into next season, so it's really going to depend on mangini's abilities to motivate and plan games, but that's pretty much what every game comes down to when the talent is close to even. what worries me is that it doesn't look like our talent is near even with other teams, and the new guys we're bringing in are solid contributors but aren't going to swing games in our favor. miami also won with a solid running game, dependable passing attack, good defense and the one-season wonder of the WildDawg, four things we won't be able to replicate. we also don't have a guy at the helm who's proven he can turn franchises around, but that's why they actually play the games. i'd love to be wrong and have this post thrown in my face, but i don't see us being able to put up enough points or keep other teams from scoring enough to consistently win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 . we also don't have a guy at the helm who's proven he can turn franchises around, but that's why they actually play the games. i'd love to be wrong and have this post thrown in my face, but i don't see us being able to put up enough points or keep other teams from scoring enough to consistently win. Well, whatever happens, I promise I won't throw this post in your face. If I had to lay money on it and honestly make a prediction, I'd say 7-9...8-8 at the most. While I agree a team likwe the Jags will rebound, there can (And probably will be) also be a game or two that the Browns may win that they shouldn't. I really agree about the guy at the helm. I am not a fan of Mangini. I thought it was a joke when they were calling him Man-genius in N.Y. In 2007 the Jets also won that year with the help of a horrible schedule. I think they beat 1 team with a record of over .500 that year. It just happen to be the Patriots and that really helped the "Man-genius" name take hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Is it me or did Jacksonville go south after they lost Marcus Stroud? I'm not sure how bad losing him hurt them....I know they gave up a lot of points from week 10 on out. They didn't seem to be horrible on defense at the beginning of the season without him. But the last 7 games they were giving up big numbers. Also, Garrard spent the entire season on his back. 42 sacks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 count me in the camp of people who respectfully disagree. the only way we win even five games is if some other teams have catastrophic collapses. I don't know if it is that bad, but it is probably closer to that then we are to winning 9. The X factor is how many wins did our collapse last year cost us?? We were down to 3rd and 4th string QBs, and the team had given up on the coach. Everybody in that locker room knew Romeo wasn't going to be evaluating them this season. I think we will end up a game or 2 better than last season......but that isn't my official prognostication..we have to see who we still get and see how the team responds to the new staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 one wonders if Mangini, who has been gun shy about big deals since joining the Browns, would pull the trigger on such a trade. LOL. He's been in town ... what two and a half months? And he traded Kellen Winslow already. Gun shy? Really? Seems to me that he is doing things the old fashioned Cleveland Browns way. You know ... the system that Newsome took to Baltimore and Belichick took to New England. Building through draft picks and mid level system free agents. Gun shy? LMAO Zombo --You are smitten, aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraDawg Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Just because ManKok is not throwing big bucks at big expensive names should indicate that the Browns are back in Kansas again . They found out the "wizard" was a fraud . Now let the farming begin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 It affects a lot, in other teams improvements and our own... From now till the end of Free Agency and then finally the end of the draft a lot of teams are going to go through a transformation still. Maybe you're right that it wont be significant enough to make a difference but it made a huge difference for Atlanta and Miami last year so we'll see... But I appreciate it Actually Miami did most of their moving last year via the trade. I don't think they signed one starting FA and I think Langford and Long were the only two starters from Last years draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaygroundLegend Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 which just shows it wasn't the finger that got him benched...it was the decision-making. thanks for the help making our point PGL. in Quinn's defense though, that part of the game can still be learned....but not from the sidelines. it's all up to him now. we shall see. There's a few things to counteract this point, one being the affects of the human hormone adrenalin. The pass happened early in the game when Quinn was probably still had a somewhat of a rush when the game began. Secondly is endurance. Once again, the pass happened early in the game, the picks happened later. His finger was getting worn out while it was already injured, and under more and more duress as the game went on. Making his throws less accurate as the game went on. Also I will go on record to say that one of his picks wasn't even his fault, I believe it was tipped. Thirdly, I was at the game and it was FREEZING ASS COLD! If you take the temperature, the finger injury, and the duress put on that finger all game; you begin to realize that it is not really his fault. Denver and half of the Buffalo game is what we should really expect from Quinn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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