Rey was BEST USC LBer Against the Pass the last 4 years

[Flugel]

I KNOW Rey is the most heavily scrutinized of the USC LBers. We've all seen the footages of him over-running plays in the attempts to prove he's over-REY-ted. But is he REALLY overrated? If I wanted to prove the Baltimore Ravens Defense sucked in 2008 - do you know what highlights I'd use MOST of the time? Their miserable outing against the Giants where it looked like Eli was handing off to trains, planes and automobiles. Similarly, if I wanted to prove Tennessee's defense sucked, I'd show highlights of their game vrs the NY Jets. Therefore, why not be a little more comprehensive in reviewing the total body of work for Rey? In 2005, which LBer was the LEAST overwhelmed by the transition to the next level? Research would say Rey. Creativity would not.

 

Rey

2005 1 sack 1 INT

2006 2 sacks 1 INT

2007 6 sacks 1 INT

2008 0 sacks 2 INTs

 

Brian Cushing

2005 0 sacks 0 INTs

2006 4 sacks 0 INTs

2007 1 sack 0 INTs

2008 3 sacks 1 INT

 

Clay Matthews

2005 0 sacks 0 INTs

2006 1 sack 0 INTs

2007 0 sacks 0 INTs

2008 4 sacks 0 INTs

 

If you were asked without looking it up, which USC LBer in the last 4 years had a season high of 6 sacks - would you have answered Rey? I've actually heard frequently that Cush and Matthews are more popular for their ability to attack the pass. Which one collected 6 sacks in any season? Which one had 2 INTs in any season? Back to the 4 year body of work. For that matter, which one of our ILBers in the last 4 years compiled 6 sacks in our 16 game seasons? Which one scored on an INT? Which one earned a reputation for tearing off heads and shitting down necks?

 

Don't get me WRONG, I know Clay Matthews only weighed 166 pounds when he arrived on campus. And unlike a Greg Lloyd junkie that used needles to gain weight - Clay grew taller. He's STILL got a ton of room to powerglom bulk onto that frame. That's got upside written all over it. I LOVE the kid. I remembered pointing out before he played his first down that Clay matthews had a son ready to play ball at USC. That's a football family lacking 1 bad NFL player in their bloodlines. JD knows his stuff when he talks this kid up; and I agree that he'd make a VERY promising pick toward the bottom of round 1.

 

Meanwhile, some of the FAVORITE pass rushers or OLBers in this draft had 6 or less sacks in 2007:

Aaron Curry - 3 sacks

Everette Brown - 6 sacks

Brian Orakpo - 5.5 sacks

Michael Johnson - 4 sacks

 

Here's Curry's 4 year body of work defending the pass:

2005 - 1 sack - 0 INTs

2006 - 3 sacks - 1 INT

2007 - 3 sacks - 4 INTs

2008 - 2 sacks - 1 INT

- Everybody including me has drooled about this kid but when we flash the production per fitness of the player - Rey's numbers hold their own. 9 sacks = 9 sacks right? 6 INTs barely beats Rey's 5 INTs (vrs much better competitions as Bowl Season punctuated). SOMETIMES when we look at the Mike Mamula's running, jumping and bench pressing MAYBE we should ask WHY players of lesser fitness are compiling better stats and more performance honors? The LAST guy named Ray that wasn't dazzling scouts in his workouts or 40 times was Ray Lewis so he wasn't drafted until #26 overall. What was LOST in many a scout's research was: LOVE of the game? Intensity? Smarts? Instincts? Good Coaching above? The last time we took the track and field star over the football player we sent Ernest Byner packing for Mike Oliphant. Can you guess which guy became the feature back for the Superbowl Champions after this trade? Can you guess which guy made Pro Bowls and which guy asked where the track was?

 

Let's simplify: IS the motherhocker good at sic em, sock em and sack em? If Kenny Norton and Pete Carroll says Rey is a bad ass - I LOVE what they know about NFL Defense. I saw a couple of highlights of Rey at the Senior Bowl that showed me he wasn't there to stick his head in the sand like an Ostrich. Dude can play - like it or not folks!

 

Thanks for reading!

 

As you were...,

Tom F.

[Kosar_For_President]

Great read. I am liking Ray, but with the 5th pick. Maybe we trade down?

[ballpeen]

Not sure how you arrive at that??

 

Because he had 2 picks??

 

Maybe he had 2 batted balls that just happened to come towards him.

 

Maybe he had 2 picks because people weren't throwing in the direction of the others.

 

The general consensus of the scouts and teams is Rey isn't a passing down backer.

[Riffer X]

I never judge interceptions as a valid stat really, there are too many instances that can determine that sort of thing, and the same holds true for backs. I will say that backs that consistently put up picks year in and year out are generally playmakers, but they can also be guys who get thrown on a lot.

 

Laurinaitis put up good pick numbers, but I like his ability back there by watching, not by stats.

 

Pretty sure the consensus is Rey is a two down guy, but maybe he has the potential for growth eventually in his coverage skills. If he's that much of a thumper he still may be worth it. I remember hearing how Leon Williams was a good cover backer but I swear I would have left Davis in there. Williams is one of the most godawful coverage backs ever. He consistently left guys open underneath and dropped too deep. I really hope he is one of the clean outs.

[Flugel]

Not sure how you arrive at that??

 

I appreciate your questions. Is it you aren't sure or you disagree with the stats?

 

A HUGE reason Rey AND Cush lost some numbers in 2008 was because it was well documented that Clay Matthews whom wasn't starting at the beginning of the season - needed more opportunities/reps on game day. That being the case Ball, Matthews wasn't ONLY playing out on the edge - he also replaced Rey inside sometimes. One of his sacks verse Penn State or Ohio State (senior moment so I don't remember which one) came on an inside X-stunt. Point is, USC had a rotation where they could rest guys and minimize wear and tear BECAUSE they had a stud like Clay Matthews growing into his body and tapping into his potential. That said, which USC LBer ever collected as many as 6 sacks in any 1 season? Which one had 5 INTs over his career (with 2 ending in TDs)? And at the Senior Bowl - one of the best defensive highlights they show of that game is Rey freight training a screen pass receiver while eluding 2 All Star blockers. Total body of work over 4 years seems to be a more accurate depiction of who's most consistent over the long haul.

 

My point of the entire thread? ALOT of unfair criticism toward the guy with the most LBer Performance Awards/Trophies aimed at excellence. I wasn't responsible for giving him ANY of those. I just don't know HOW people turn a GREAT player into a crappy one the second all the blocking and tackling stops. Kam Wimbely had 1 breakout season at FSU before impressing the Hell out of NFL scouts with workouts and fitness. Guess how many people already wrote him off Ball? All we are hearing about is the need for a pass rushing x-factor. That said, if you can get 11 sacks as a rookie - I'm not sure it's the PLAYER who's totally at fault here as much as it's the coaching that pretty much guided him away from excellence. Nothing about 11 sacks during the lack of experience says - dump this guy while you can. However, if he never makes it back or close to that - what did the workouts mean? They were supposed to say this guy can adapt to everything but he really hasn't so barbells and 40s aren't always the tell-all. T-Suggs ran surprisingly cruddy 40s that turned alot of scouts' noses up except for that same organization that dared to take Ray Lewis. Those 2 players might be the best rationale for BUCKING the popular opinions stemming from workouts toward the GUT of film observations and stat sheets.

 

Every single year there's a creativity effort to devalue a promising young prospect. One year it was "AP will need season ending surgery before his first game." Minnesota's quiet research said otherwise and they liked the motivated young player on their doorstep. Another year, it was cool to say Thurman Thomas didn't belong in round 1. Another year it was cool to say Rey Lewis' monsterous career at Miami didn't mean a thing so the first 25 teams said "Hell no!" The same thing happened to Marino back in 1983 when he didn't go until 27th overall becaus of all the character rumors.

- Tom F.

[Guest Aloysius]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Maualuga saw the field on 3rd down a lot more often than Cushing. Not sure why, but that makes comparing their INT numbers pretty misleading.

 

Anyway, you see something totally different when you compare PBU's: Cushing had 6, whereas Maualuga only had 4. Cushing leads by two because he made two really nice plays in coverage in the Oregon game, perhaps the only game in which he got to be a true every down player (because Rey was hurt).

 

Neither of them is an elite cover guy, but I think Cushing's better than Rey.

[Flugel]

I never judge interceptions as a valid stat really, there are too many instances that can determine that sort of thing, and the same holds true for backs. I will say that backs that consistently put up picks year in and year out are generally playmakers, but they can also be guys who get thrown on a lot.

 

Laurinaitis put up good pick numbers, but I like his ability back there by watching, not by stats.

 

Pretty sure the consensus is Rey is a two down guy, but maybe he has the potential for growth eventually in his coverage skills. If he's that much of a thumper he still may be worth it. I remember hearing how Leon Williams was a good cover backer but I swear I would have left Davis in there. Williams is one of the most godawful coverage backs ever. He consistently left guys open underneath and dropped too deep. I really hope he is one of the clean outs.

 

Be careful Riff. Is this the same consensus that said they don't believe Ray Lewis will be the same guy he is on film? I think it is. How many TDs has he cashed in on the mind of Dumb Ass when defensing the pass?

 

Not sure ANYONE is reading the 6 sacks I showed for Rey in 2007. We play a 16 game schedule and how many sacks did our ILBers get the lst few seasons? Rey came off the field in 2008 for Clay Matthews as often as Cushing did so Clay played inside and outside whether people know this or not.

 

My reasoning for putting the INTs in there is because Rey is BETTER against the pass than people give him credit for. ALOT of his thunderous hits come on guys crossing the middle, which creates the presence we currently LACK. We've got a doughnut hole in our middle that NOBODY fears.

 

Lauranitis is a GOOD LBer but I think he's the guy that was always getting overrated on fat numbers vrs skinny teams. I've never seen the next Randy Gradishar or Chris Spielman or Pepper Johnson or AJ Hawk when I watched this kid play. I cringe every time I heard OSU's overinflated numbers against inferior competition when they go out of conference. USC scored at will and Lauranitis became the same Casper the Friendly Ghost he was in the LSU and Florida games. And why? He's limited athletically. I equate him with Matt Wilhelm, whom I though was better than he often got credit for. Matt STILL plays and gets in the LBer rotation in SD. When you look at a strength of a conference - TRUST the Bowl Game records.

 

Meanwhile, the only highlight they show of the OSU-USC matchup anymore is Rey INTing the pass against all odds and outrunning 11 OSU players to the end zone against all odds 1 more time. Big Game - Big Stage - Big Play. The great ones do this. Did Lauranitis impact that game? Not really because he couldn't. I LIKE the kid but I also saw what happened when one of his teammates named Vernon Gholston got vastly overrated. BTW, he was Casper the Friendly Ghost's twin against LSU. They were like: "comeon dude - our second string scrimmage rats give us better heat."

- Tom F.

[Guest Aloysius]

Meanwhile, the only highlight they show of the OSU-USC matchup anymore is Rey INTing the pass against all odds and outrunning 11 OSU players to the end zone against all odds 1 more time. Big Game - Big Stage - Big Play. The great ones do this. Did Lauranitis impact that game? Not really because he couldn't.

I thought Laurinaitis was pretty good in that game. And though Rey made the big play, I think Cushing may have had a better overall game.

 

Sure, Rey returned a pick for a touchdown, but he wasn't great for 60 minutes.

 

 

[Flugel]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Maualuga saw the field on 3rd down a lot more often than Cushing. Not sure why, but that makes comparing their INT numbers pretty misleading.

 

Anyway, you see something totally different when you compare PBU's: Cushing had 6, whereas Maualuga only had 4. Cushing leads by two because he made two really nice plays in coverage in the Oregon game, perhaps the only game in which he got to be a true every down player (because Rey was hurt).

 

Neither of them is an elite cover guy, but I think Cushing's better than Rey.

 

Aloy,

I think you're an IDEAL student of the game that REALLY knows his stuff. Don't take this next part as an insult because it's not meant to be and I'm JUST as guilty of it toward certain players at times. However, when it comes to Rey: I don't think your OPINION of Rey LETS you see what I've shown and allows you to say "WOW, he really had 6 sacks from the inside in 2007?" There's ALOT of people on this board that think Rey is overrated whom will share your opinion. I just wanted to share some factual data that swims upstream against popular opinion that and reveals Rey had more sacks and INTs than the 2 other USC LBers whom will be drafted before round 2 starts up.

 

There were 3 seasons where Cush wasn't being replaced very often by Clay Matthews and he never collected 6 sacks or 1 INT. Rey has 5 INTs and 2 for TDs. I think he's better in the hook zones and at diagnosing the pass than people give him credit for. In fairness to Rey, I think ALOT of teams were afraid to throw the slant passes crossing his face. That's called presence and I didn't earn that for him.

 

I heard Pete Carroll in an interview saying Matthews came on so strong in 2008 - that his biggest challenge became finding enough reps for Clay. He said the reason this was such a challenge is because he had to take some all star caliber talent off the field to plug Clay into spots where he could help the team most. He said BOTH Rey and Cushing lost reps to Matthews; and research shows us Clay didn't have 1 main position.

- Tom F. (I probably sound like some Kirby Vaccuum Sales sweat in this thread but dadblast it - let's have some fun)

[Flugel]

I thought Laurinaitis was pretty good in that game. And though Rey made the big play, I think Cushing may have had a better overall game.

 

Sure, Rey returned a pick for a touchdown, but he wasn't great for 60 minutes.

 

 

I don't need to rewatch games I already saw. Cush had a great game against Ohio State but are we talking 1 game or the season/career? That would be like me asking you who was the defensive player-of-the-game in the 2008 Rose Bowl? Rey was.

 

Lauranitis was perrtty good as opposed to good, very good, excellent or awesome. Translation: not good enough for impact vrs USC but capable of overwhelming against Indiana.

 

The guy amassed an enormous trophy case for being REAL good at ILBer. I never even knew who he was until his junior year. The first game USC game I caught some guy wearing #58 was freakin laying people out and I double dribbled my jaw off the floor about 4 times. I finally put 2 and 2 togethr and realized this must be the guy Shep kept gushing over and for GOOD reason.

 

Rey was named as a Consensus All American this last season and 1 more time I didn't have anything to do with that. Like I said, I STILL don't see where this guy turned into a sucky player the second they stopped playing ball in lieu of barbells and track spikes.

- Tom F.

[Gips]

Nice read...the fact is any of these guys are an immediate and serious upgrade to our existing LB talent..and i like all 3 of them...while curry is the safest bet i think any of these 3 guys could actually end up surpassing curry in the nfl if they get in a system that compliments them..

[PlaygroundLegend]

Plus, I think everyone is underestimating intensity! Adding Rey to our D will make everyone a little more aggressive as he amps everyone up. Rey brings a crazy intensity to the game, he is a character, a persona, something we need.

 

Plus, I think since Rob Ryan has been in Oakland the last few years he's had a closer look at Rey and Im sure he will be adding his 2 cents into this draft

[ballpeen]

Is it you aren't sure or you disagree with the stats?

 

Well....i am pretty sure and bottom line is i don't think those stats tell us crap about his pass defense.

 

Just to be blunt.

 

 

You're basing it on his 2 picks??

[Flugel]

Well....i am pretty sure and bottom line is i don't think those stats tell us crap about his pass defense.

 

Just to be blunt.

 

 

You're basing it on his 2 picks??

 

LOL! Comeon - do you REALLY think that is what I'm basing my arguement on? Although if you're yawning at 2 INTs in 1 season, Matthews and Cushing combined for 1 INT over the course of 4 years.

 

My title doesn't say best COVER LBer (because that's only HALF of what his Coach wanted from him). It says best USC LBer against the pass. Let me ask you during a day and age where LBers get named to Pro Bowls simply off sack volumes - are QB sacks considered an IMPORTANT part of a team's pass defense????

 

Hence, the reason I posted SACKS and INTs as stats here is because there's 2 responsibilities for LBers depending upon the scheme and the playcall. If the DC orders up an inside X-stunt - your ILBer is hunting QB on the play. If there isn't an Inside stunt blitz scheme - he better have his fanny back in the hook zone on time reading pass from the snap. When done right - you see Rey intercepting OSU QB for a TD. When done right at the Pro level you see Ray Lewis scoring 2 TDs on DA in his last 3 games vrs Cleveland. Teddy Bruschi is another LBer that isn't the FASTEST guy on the planet BUT he seems like he's intercepting ALOT of passes in hook zones in big games.

 

Back to the 4 year body of work - what USC LBer had more INTs than Rey? What LBer had more sacks than Rey over 4 years? What LBer's personal best season of sacks from USC exceeded Rey's 6 sacks in 2007? What USC LBer is most known for his violent collisions over the middle? I wouldn't be justifying why Rey has received the most performance honors and awards would I?

 

The point of this thread is to REMIND people that Rey CAN be very effective at rushing the passer when/if that's what his coach WANTS of him. If he's asked to drop into coverage - some of his best hits come on those slant routes crossing his face. That would be the presence our defense has lacked since Pepper Johnson was spicing us up in 1993. How many years ago was that???? It's 2009 right? I'm sorry but I want that guy whom opposing teams FEAR for once because it leads to the sissy Northcutt drops we've always treated our rivals in Pittsburgh in Baltimore too. Right now there isn't a team in this league afraid of crossing our middle on short slant routes so NOBODY drops passes against us.

 

Believe it or not, Taylor Mays would have been my first choice ABOVE Rey because he would be in the Center of our D AND he would add the type of goodies a Polly adds to a D whether he's in coverage disrupting Centerfield or he's the designated kill the Qb blitzer. Either way an opponent wants to know where he is at all times. We don't have this missing link to effective defense yet. Nothing wrong with dreaming.

- Tom F.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

I don't need to rewatch games I already saw. Cush had a great game against Ohio State but are we talking 1 game or the season/career? That would be like me asking you who was the defensive player-of-the-game in the 2008 Rose Bowl? Rey was.

 

Lauranitis was perrtty good as opposed to good, very good, excellent or awesome. Translation: not good enough for impact vrs USC but capable of overwhelming against Indiana.

 

The guy amassed an enormous trophy case for being REAL good at ILBer. I never even knew who he was until his junior year. The first game USC game I caught some guy wearing #58 was freakin laying people out and I double dribbled my jaw off the floor about 4 times. I finally put 2 and 2 togethr and realized this must be the guy Shep kept gushing over and for GOOD reason.

 

Rey was named as a Consensus All American this last season and 1 more time I didn't have anything to do with that. Like I said, I STILL don't see where this guy turned into a sucky player the second they stopped playing ball in lieu of barbells and track spikes.

- Tom F.

 

I agree with you my friend. Except, I do think Lauranitis is a very good ILB in the Urlacher mold. Sometimes you have to analyze the system they are being asked to play in vs a guy how may be consistantly let loose to rush the QB. JL dropped into coverage a whole lot. It wasn't his job to rush the QB on most downs. As far as Rey, he is a kick ass type of football player and I personally would take him over Orakpo, but then we signed Barton for a reson , I guess.

 

IMO, when we look back at this draft and people will be saying, how did all those teams bypass Rey. Just my opinion but I believe he is one of the few impact defensive players in this draft. There are a lot of solid players but I feel Rey will be an impact player that will make offenses change their game plans. So, to me, he isn't a reach.

 

Many draftniks may think otherwise, but that's my opinion and we won't really know until next Jan. If you want a "in your face", "kick ass" defense, then look no further.

 

[Flugel]

I agree with you my friend. Except, I do think Lauranitis is a very good ILB in the Urlacher mold. Sometimes you have to analyze the system they are being asked to play in vs a guy how may be consistantly let loose to rush the QB. JL dropped into coverage a whole lot. It wasn't his job to rush the QB on most downs. As far as Rey, he is a kick ass type of football player and I personally would take him over Orakpo, but then we signed Barton for a reson , I guess.

 

IMO, when we look back at this draft and people will be saying, how did all those teams bypass Rey. Just my opinion but I believe he is one of the few impact defensive players in this draft. There are a lot of solid players but I feel Rey will be an impact player that will make offenses change their game plans. So, to me, he isn't a reach.

 

Many draftniks may think otherwise, but that's my opinion and we won't really know until next Jan. If you want a "in your face", "kick ass" defense, then look no further.

 

Thanks Y'town. Great points!

 

I don't think Lauranitis stinks by any means and I always make sure I say I think he's good when I see he's being placed into the elite grouping. He's a likable kid that stays out of trouble and LOVES football. His coaches love him too because of the work ethic. All pluses. He's an Ohio boy so I understand he's a hometown favorite.

 

Lauranitis could go to the right system and play very well. I think asking him to go to a bad defense and become that team's saviour would be an unfair expectation for this kid. That being the case, I couldn't see him going in the upper half of round 1. Hey, who would have predicted Matt Wilhelm's NFL career would have outlived Andy Katzenmoyer's? Now add the fact that he's remained part of a starting rotation of LBers on a playoff defense and you learn that the art of pegging guys isn't an exact science.

- Tom F.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Thanks Y'town. Great points!

 

I don't think Lauranitis stinks by any means and I always make sure I say I think he's good when I see he's being placed into the elite grouping. He's a likable kid that stays out of trouble and LOVES football. His coaches love him too because of the work ethic. All pluses. He's an Ohio boy so I understand he's a hometown favorite.

 

Lauranitis could go to the right system and play very well. I think asking him to go to a bad defense and become that team's saviour would be an unfair expectation for this kid. That being the case, I couldn't see him going in the upper half of round 1. Hey, who would have predicted Matt Wilhelm's NFL career would have outlived Andy Katzenmoyer's? Now add the fact that he's remained part of a starting rotation of LBers on a playoff defense and you learn that the art of pegging guys isn't an exact science.

- Tom F.

 

I agree, he's not in that elite class, but in a 4-3 system where he could control the middle of the field something like the Colts, Titans or Bears he would be an very good addition. He's actually a solid defender and has good zone coverage skills. He's never going to be a Ray Lewis or even Rey Maualuga moster at ILB but he'll be one of those solid guys that loves the game and will give you 100% every down.

 

As far a Rey, I wouldn't be afraid to take him at #5. But, as things stand now, I think we have a very good chance at trading down. They are making people nervous by bringing in Sanchez and talking about taking Crabtree.

[Tobalaz]

I'd take Maualuga over that Orca kid any day of the week.....

 

[Guest Aloysius]

However, when it comes to Rey: I don't think your OPINION of Rey LETS you see what I've shown and allows you to say "WOW, he really had 6 sacks from the inside in 2007?" There's ALOT of people on this board that think Rey is overrated whom will share your opinion. I just wanted to share some factual data that swims upstream against popular opinion that and reveals Rey had more sacks and INTs than the 2 other USC LBers whom will be drafted before round 2 starts up.

We already went down this road once before, and it got ugly really quick. So I won't belabor the point.

 

I'll just say that if you look back at my posts in October, I had Curry and Maualuga rated almost equally. After that, I watched several games of each guy, keying exclusively on them. And when I scrutinized them very closely, Curry's play impressed me even more and Maualuga's impressed me a lot less.

 

Only after that did I start looking at the character stuff, which soured me a little more on Maualuga. I think I just put a greater emphasis on intelligence and character than you do; the three guys you really like high in the draft - Maualuga, Harvin, and Andre Smith - all have character red flags and scored very low on the Wonderlic. Stuff like that scares me away from guys.

 

I heard Pete Carroll in an interview saying Matthews came on so strong in 2008 - that his biggest challenge became finding enough reps for Clay. He said the reason this was such a challenge is because he had to take some all star caliber talent off the field to plug Clay into spots where he could help the team most. He said BOTH Rey and Cushing lost reps to Matthews; and research shows us Clay didn't have 1 main position.

Interesting. Because when I keyed on Maualuga, I rarely saw him come off the field. Maybe Matthews occasionally blitzed from the ILB spot, but it's not like he was eating into Maualuga's reps at the position.

 

I don't need to rewatch games I already saw.

Well, then I guess you're not at all like me. I was holding two empty beer cans by the time that game started, didn't watch the 4th quarter, and - more importantly - wasn't really focusing on Maualuga. I noticed a lot of new things when I watched the game a second time.

 

But that's just me.

[Flugel]

We already went down this road once before, and it got ugly really quick. So I won't belabor the point.

 

I'll just say that if you look back at my posts in October, I had Curry and Maualuga rated almost equally. After that, I watched several games of each guy, keying exclusively on them. And when I scrutinized them very closely, Curry's play impressed me even more and Maualuga's impressed me a lot less.

 

Only after that did I start looking at the character stuff, which soured me a little more on Maualuga. I think I just put a greater emphasis on intelligence and character than you do; the three guys you really like high in the draft - Maualuga, Harvin, and Andre Smith - all have character red flags and scored very low on the Wonderlic. Stuff like that scares me away from guys.

 

 

Interesting. Because when I keyed on Maualuga, I rarely saw him come off the field. Maybe Matthews occasionally blitzed from the ILB spot, but it's not like he was eating into Maualuga's reps at the position.

 

 

Well, then I guess you're not at all like me. I was holding two empty beer cans by the time that game started, didn't watch the 4th quarter, and - more importantly - wasn't really focusing on Maualuga. I noticed a lot of new things when I watched the game a second time.

 

But that's just me.

 

I started this thread showing sack and INT stats for a 4 year body of work for the 3 USC LBers slated to go within the first 2 rounds of this draft. I ALSO complimented you in this thread. Therefore, I'm not gonna take the guilt trip for your self-induced fuss here. Since you chose not to belabor the point only to belabor the point - here you be:

 

Like I said, it's just 1 game in 4 years. Maybe we're just different - I don't lose my memory on 2 beers in 3 hours. If I did, I don't think mixing the 2 would make much sense if the sum of it added up to - need to re-watch when more coherent. Besides, I'm not big on re-watching games my favorite teams lose. I've never re-watched the The Drive or The Fumble. If you like throwing up better than me - then have at it.

 

Since you ARE compelled to make this September 13th Game the rule instead of the exception - I'll ask: If Pete Carroll AND Kenny Norton feel like Rey needed to stay on the field - whom are they telling you they believe in MORE against the pass? And later in the game when Rey INT'd the ball, did that burn Carroll and Norton for feeling that way? No, they added another TD. LUCKY for you, I said this was ONLY 1 game because as the season went on, Rey WAS coming off the field. Maybe this can be reflected by Rey was def MVP of the 2008 Rose Bowl & the 2009 Rose Bowl Def MVP was ILBer Kaluka Maiava. In the RB, Matthews replaced Rey a couple of times and put tremendous heat on PSU's QB from inside X-stunts. I really wasn't keeping track of whom Clay was replacing more at the time to be honest because I never thought I'd have you going Judge Judy on me about it later. I think you'll see there's print out there that indicates Clay played inside and outside and he's been called the guy without a position. That's not me being creative - that's me refusing to contort the truth with convenience of arguement.

 

I haven't READ or heard about character concerns about Harvin beyond you sending me something about him getting thrown out of a high school game when he was 17 or 18 years old. Does being a stupid teenager mean someone shoudn't hire you when you're 22 or 23? If so, do you know how many of us in the Dawg Pound shouldn't have ever been hired according to your criteria? And how much has Percy Harvin's character backfired on Urban Meyer in the last 3 years? From where I'm sitting, I count 2 National Championships with Harvin representing a VERY important prong of attack. That doesn't happen is Meyer is a guy that makes bad personnel choices. If you can get creative and PROVE Harvin's character ruined Florida's football program - run it. What I HAVE read about Harvin is he wanted to be #1 in the weight room and on the practice field. Sound like a passionate football player making football #1 in his life? Or do you got a story of him getting kicked out of Cub Scouts for eating too many Brownies to share with us?

 

Dan Marino, Warren Sapp, Randy Moss, Laverneus Coles, Bruce Smith, Jones-Drew, Bob Hayes, Erik Williams, Lawrence Taylor all had these character issues you speak of. We stayed away from those types and drafted an alter boy with manners named Courtney Brown. We were great at helping our opponents back to their feet and saying thank you while they were kicking our fannies on game day. "Love thy enemy." Me? I'd rather get some mean basterds willing to be naughty on Sunday so we can keep some freakin scores down for a change. I think we're confusing Sunday School with competitive football on Sundays. Ray Lewis and Jamal Lewis had character issues didn't they? At what point did that ruin their championship run? Maybe my problem is I'm too old for new millenium criteria. I grew up playing football on grass, dirt and mudd with my buddies instead of Madden video screens. Seems like tackling has become a lost art for the Cleveland Browns so I still enjoy the throwback players that drive through the man into the turf and intimidate people.

- Tom F.

[Sony Reed]

If memory serves me right - I started this thread showing sack and INT stats for a 4 year body of work for the 3 USC LBers slated to go within the first 2 rounds of this draft. That wasn't even close to an attack on you so I'm not taking the guilt trip for your self-induced fuss here. Since you chose not to belabor the point only to belabor the point - here's some feeback on those points:

 

Like I said, it's just 1 game in 4 years and that's just me. Maybe we're just different - I don't lose my memory on 2 beers in 3 hours. I'm not big on re-watching games my favorite teams lose. I've never re-watched the The Drive or The Fumble. If you like throwing up better than me - then have at it.

 

Since you ARE compelled to make MORE out of this 1 game than the entire season - I'll ask this question while you remain consistent with your philosophy: If Pete Carroll AND Kenny Norton feel like Rey needed to stay on the field - whom are they telling you they believe in MORE against the pass? And later in the game when Rey INT'd the ball, did that burn Carroll and Norton for feeling that way? No, they added another TD and all the FASTER and more agile players than Rey couldn't touch him or catch him for some reason. LUCKY for you, I said this was ONLY 1 game because as the season went on, Rey WAS coming off the field. While Rey was def MVP of the 2008 Rose Bowl, this year's Rose Bowl Def MVP was ILBer Kaluka Maiava. In that game, Matthews replaced Rey a couple of times and put tremendous heat on PSU's QB from instide X-stunts. I really wasn't keeping track of whom he was replacing more at the time to be honest because I never thought I'd have you going Judge Judy on me about it later. I think you'll see there's print out there that indicates Clay played inside and outside and he's been called the guy without a position. That's not me being creative - that's me refusing to contort the truth with convenience of arguement.

 

I haven't READ or heard about character concerns about Harvin beyond you sending me something about him getting thrown out of a high school game when he was 17 or 18 years old. Does being a stupid teenager mean someone shoudn't hire you when you're 22 or 23? If so, do you know how many of us in the Dawg Pound shouldn't have ever been hired according to your criteria? And how much has Percy Harvin's character backfired on Urban Meyer in the last 3 years? From where I'm sitting, I count 2 National Championships with Harvin representing a VERY important prong of attack.

 

Dan Marino, Warren Sapp, Randy Moss, Laverneus Coles, Bruce Smith, Jones-Drew, Bob Hayes, Erik Williams, Lawrence Taylor all had these character issues you speak of. We stayed away from those types and drafted an alter boy with manners named Courtney Brown. We were great at helping our opponents back to their feet while they were kicking our fannies on game day. "Love thy enemy." Me? I'd rather get some mean basterds willing to be naughty on Sunday so we can keep some freakin scores down for a change. I think we're confusing Sunday School with competitive football on Sundays. Ray Lewis and Jamal Lewis had character issues didn't they? AT what point did that ruin their championship run? Maybe my problem is I'm too old for new millenium criteria. I grew up playing football on grass, dirt and mudd with my buddies instead of Madden video screens. Seems like tackling has become a lost art for the Cleveland Browns so I still enjoy the throwback players that drive through the man into the turf and intimidate people. Sorry.

- Tom F.

 

 

Flugs, great post, I just want to add a few things, I believe all the negatives regarding Rey is a bunch of B.S., Rey has been a dominant player at USC for the past 4 years and people make me laugh when I hear people say Cushing and Matthews are better than him, the other thing is everyone talking about Curry like he's the best LB to come out in years, truth is until this past season Curry was looked at as no more than a 3rd round choice at best, so now the guy has one great year playing in a weak ACC and looks good in shorts at the combine and he is the new flavor of the year whereas Rey as been performing at a high level for the past 4 years playing against much better competition and in bigger games than Curry. Aaron Curry has had ONE DOMINAT YEAR, Rey has had 4.

 

The other thing is I am glad you brought up this character issue, these guys are football players, I want good football players unless they are out shooting people or abusing drugs I could care less about a wonderlic score or other trivial things young guys get into after all these are kids and we all made mistake when we were kids, I am so tired of us selecting these so called good guys who suck on the football field.

 

As you mentioned guys like Harvin, Andre Smith and Rey have talent all you have to do is look at what they have done on the field to realize what type of football players these guys will be.

 

IMO of all the defensive players in the draft Rey I feel will have the largest impact on defense for whichever team drafts him, this guy will be a difference maker in so many ways on the field. watch the film the guy makes plays and big plays at times that change the course of a game and thats what I consider a IMPACT PLAYER.

[Flugel]

Flugs, great post, I just want to add a few things, I believe all the negatives regarding Rey is a bunch of B.S., Rey has been a dominant player at USC for the past 4 years and people make me laugh when I hear people say Cushing and Matthews are better than him, the other thing is everyone talking about Curry like he's the best LB to come out in years, truth is until this past season Curry was looked at as no more than a 3rd round choice at best, so now the guy has one great year playing in a weak ACC and looks good in shorts at the combine and he is the new flavor of the year whereas Rey as been performing at a high level for the past 4 years playing against much better competition and in bigger games than Curry. Aaron Curry has had ONE DOMINAT YEAR, Rey has had 4.

 

The other thing is I am glad you brought up this character issue, these guys are football players, I want good football players unless they are out shooting people or abusing drugs I could care less about a wonderlic score or other trivial things young guys get into after all these are kids and we all made mistake when we were kids, I am so tired of us selecting these so called good guys who suck on the football field.

 

As you mentioned guys like Harvin, Andre Smith and Rey have talent all you have to do is look at what they have done on the field to realize what type of football players these guys will be.

 

IMO of all the defensive players in the draft Rey I feel will have the largest impact on defense for whichever team drafts him, this guy will be a difference maker in so many ways on the field. watch the film the guy makes plays and big plays at times that change the course of a game and thats what I consider a IMPACT PLAYER.

 

Thanks SONY! Some good points about character and Rey. I actually LIKE Curry a ton; but it's not like anyone goes out of their way to post video collages of his worst moments or acknowledges he plays in weak conference. Even his Bowl matchup, Navy was running a 1940s offense and Wake Forest struggled much of the game on both sides of the ball. Not Curry's fault and I LIKE him but... I'd even take him over Rey BUT he'll be gone before we pick I think. I just think there's been a lot of creativity to describe Rey as Over-REY-ted. I edited my post with some updates about character since it's a new page and I don't want to clarify/re-explain things anymore - this is in response to Aloy's comments:

 

I started this thread showing sack and INT stats for a 4 year body of work for the 3 USC LBers slated to go within the first 2 rounds of this draft. I ALSO complimented you in this thread. Therefore, I'm not gonna take the guilt trip for your self-induced fuss here. Since you chose not to belabor the point only to belabor the point - here you be:

 

Like I said, it's just 1 game in 4 years. Maybe we're just different - I don't lose my memory on 2 beers in 3 hours. If I did, I don't think mixing the 2 would make much sense if the sum of it added up to - need to re-watch when more coherent. Besides, I'm not big on re-watching games my favorite teams lose. I've never re-watched the The Drive or The Fumble. If you like throwing up better than me - then have at it.

 

Since you ARE compelled to make this September 13th Game the rule instead of the exception - I'll ask: If Pete Carroll AND Kenny Norton feel like Rey needed to stay on the field - whom are they telling you they believe in MORE against the pass? And later in the game when Rey INT'd the ball, did that burn Carroll and Norton for feeling that way? No, they added another TD. LUCKY for you, I said this was ONLY 1 game because as the season went on, Rey WAS coming off the field. Maybe this can be reflected by Rey was def MVP of the 2008 Rose Bowl & the 2009 Rose Bowl Def MVP was ILBer Kaluka Maiava. In the RB, Matthews replaced Rey a couple of times and put tremendous heat on PSU's QB from inside X-stunts. I really wasn't keeping track of whom Clay was replacing more at the time to be honest because I never thought I'd have you going Judge Judy on me about it later. I think you'll see there's print out there that indicates Clay played inside and outside and he's been called the guy without a position. That's not me being creative - that's me refusing to contort the truth with convenience of arguement.

 

I haven't READ or heard about character concerns about Harvin beyond you sending me something about him getting thrown out of a high school game when he was 17 or 18 years old. Does being a stupid teenager mean someone shoudn't hire you when you're 22 or 23? If so, do you know how many of us in the Dawg Pound shouldn't have ever been hired according to your criteria? And how much has Percy Harvin's character backfired on Urban Meyer in the last 3 years? From where I'm sitting, I count 2 National Championships with Harvin representing a VERY important prong of attack. That doesn't happen if Meyer is a guy that makes bad personnel choices. If you can get creative and PROVE Harvin's character ruined Florida's football program - run it. What I HAVE read about Harvin is he wanted to be #1 in the weight room and on the practice field. Sound like a passionate football player making football #1 in his life? Or do you got a story of him getting kicked out of Cub Scouts for eating too many Brownies?

 

Dan Marino, Warren Sapp, Randy Moss, Laverneus Coles, Bruce Smith, Jones-Drew, Bob Hayes, Erik Williams, Lawrence Taylor all had these character issues you speak of. We stayed away from those types and drafted an alter boy with manners named Courtney Brown. We were great at helping our opponents back to their feet and saying thank you while they were kicking our fannies on game day. "Love thy enemy." Me? I'd rather get some mean basterds willing to be naughty on Sunday so we can keep some freakin scores down for a change. I think we're confusing Sunday School with competitive football on Sundays. Ray Lewis and Jamal Lewis had character issues didn't they? At what point did that ruin their championship run? Maybe my problem is I'm too old for new millenium criteria. I grew up playing football on grass, dirt and mudd with my buddies instead of Madden video screens. Seems like tackling has become a lost art for the Cleveland Browns so I still enjoy the throwback players that drive through the man into the turf and intimidate people.

- Tom F.

[Riffer X]

Flugs, I like Rey more and more and a lot of it is from what you're saying regarding just needing a bad ass out there. I can live with the occasional mistake, but a difference maker is needed.

[Guest Aloysius]

Come on, Tom. Let's kiss & make up.

 

All I was saying is when I'm making my way through a Sam Adams six-pack while watching a game with a bunch of Buckeyes fans, I'll get up & cheer when Daniel Herron breaks off a long run. But I probably won't notice that Maualuga's overpursuit helped set it up.

 

Re-watching a game long after it's ended helps you notice things you wouldn't catch when it's live. When already you know what's going to happen, you can more easily key on how individual players performed. And because you're not anticipating a Buckeyes victory, it shouldn't be painful to go back on the DVR a few weeks later & watch Maualuga play.

 

And about the character thing: yes, I emphasize character more than you do. That doesn't mean I'm right: it just means I'm a little more concerned about that stuff. I'd probably be too overcautious and miss out on a Warren Sapp, and you'd probably cast aside concerns & draft a TO. Because of that, we end up disagreeing about Maualuga's character concerns. That's pretty much to be expected - no need to fight about it.

[Riffer X]

love is a beautiful thing

[Flugel]

Come on, Tom. Let's kiss & make up.

 

All I was saying is when I'm making my way through a Sam Adams six-pack while watching a game with a bunch of Buckeyes fans, I'll get up & cheer when Daniel Herron breaks off a long run. But I probably won't notice that Maualuga's overpursuit helped set it up.

 

Re-watching a game long after it's ended helps you notice things you wouldn't catch when it's live. When already you know what's going to happen, you can more easily key on how individual players performed. And because you're not anticipating a Buckeyes victory, it shouldn't be painful to go back on the DVR a few weeks later & watch Maualuga play.

 

And about the character thing: yes, I emphasize character more than you do. That doesn't mean I'm right: it just means I'm a little more concerned about that stuff. I'd probably be too overcautious and miss out on a Warren Sapp, and you'd probably cast aside concerns & draft a TO. Because of that, we end up disagreeing about Maualuga's character concerns. That's pretty much to be expected - no need to fight about it.

 

LOL! We're cool. While we were disagreeing about Rey - I shot you over a "Great stuff" reply about your post regarding Michael Johnson. I gotta realize not everyone is going to like Rey the way I do.

- Tom F.

[Beanpot]

Nice back and forth between Alo and Flugs, two of my favorite posters. Much thanks for all of the knowledge the two of you provide.

 

Also, I'm loving Alo's videos. Greatly appreciated!

 

Beanpot

[Riffer X]

I'm betting that Flugs has the nicer ass.

[PlaygroundLegend]

http://mvn.com/outsider/2009/03/nfl-outsid...-cleveland.html

 

Interesting article on why the Browns draft Maualuga

[ClevelandFanForLife]

we still need someone to stop the run first or a pass rusher. with pressure on the qb the pass coverage will improve greatly because the qb won't have to time to set his feet and deliver passes right on the numbers.