sadbrownsfan Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/politics/john-kasich-republicans-debate/ While he earned a point in my book, by calling out the craziness of the GOP candidates, he has likely just put the final nail in is presidential chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 After the debate tonight, some will be out next week I suspect - Kasich and Paul are pretty much guaranteed to be out soon (though I like Paul and think Kasich is a reasonable moderate), Rubio may be a surprise drop out like Walker (he's really shot himself in the foot by saying he doesn't vote, not running for re-election because he "hates" the senate) Christie and Huckabee are too ignorant to drop out, Bush has too much money to drop out, Fiorina won't be out because she's the new Koch favorite, Trump/Carson/Cruz won't drop out by virtue of being top 3 and having money. But please for the love of gawd Santorum/Jindal/Graham/Pataki just LEAVE. Nobody will vote for any of them - unfortunately they will stick around because next month's GOP debate will yet again have an "undercard/kid's table" debate. That really needs to end this late into the process.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 For all the faults of the republican party having so many running for president at least it seems like more of a democratic process over the communist type coronation the dems have given to Hillary without having much competition in the race. The socialist Sanders has done better than expected but no serious person gives him any chance of winning. The small field running against Clinton has already dwindled by two dropping out already. The only hope any competition had against Hillary was to perform well in the debates and Debbie Wasserman Schultze has seen to it that there were only a limited amount of debates to help Clinton. I believe Biden not running signals there will be no indictments from the Obama justice dept against Clinton for the emails just like no criminal charges were brought against the IRS who clearly discriminated against conservative groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I think the media is grossly underrating Sanders. He owns the 18-30 crowd - which is now the biggest voter block in the country if they turn out. The thing about the Sanders supporters is I think many aren't being polled and many will turn out. I think it's going to be a lot closer than the Hillary land slide the media is predicting (and wants) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I think you're probably right. Too bad. I like John Kasich. I don't much care for Rand Paul and slightly like chris Christie. Don't care about Bobby Jindal or Pataky orJeb Bush, and I can't stand Lindsey Graham. The evangelistic community will give Iowa to Dr Carson but then he's on his own. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 For all the faults of the republican party having so many running for president at least it seems like more of a democratic process over the communist type coronation the dems have given to Hillary without having much competition in the race. The socialist Sanders has done better than expected but no serious person gives him any chance of winning. The small field running against Clinton has already dwindled by two dropping out already. The only hope any competition had against Hillary was to perform well in the debates and Debbie Wasserman Schultze has seen to it that there were only a limited amount of debates to help Clinton. I believe Biden not running signals there will be no indictments from the Obama justice dept against Clinton for the emails just like no criminal charges were brought against the IRS who clearly discriminated against conservative groups. yes the wh realized best not to throw stones... which is still giving them too much credit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrownsfan Posted October 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I think the media is grossly underrating Sanders. He owns the 18-30 crowd - which is now the biggest voter block in the country if they turn out. The thing about the Sanders supporters is I think many aren't being polled and many will turn out. I think it's going to be a lot closer than the Hillary land slide the media is predicting (and wants) I think he is getting a lot more support from the "its not Hillary" crowd also. I don't agree with him on many things, but would pick him over Hillary if I voted in the primaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I'd imagine he appeals to those who don't have or want a job. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrownsfan Posted October 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I'd imagine he appeals to those who don't have or want a job. WSS and if the people on this board are correct that is 90% of the Democratic party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 After the debate tonight, some will be out next week I suspect - Kasich and Paul are pretty much guaranteed to be out soon (though I like Paul and think Kasich is a reasonable moderate), Rubio may be a surprise drop out like Walker (he's really shot himself in the foot by saying he doesn't vote, not running for re-election because he "hates" the senate) Christie and Huckabee are too ignorant to drop out, Bush has too much money to drop out, Fiorina won't be out because she's the new Koch favorite, Trump/Carson/Cruz won't drop out by virtue of being top 3 and having money. But please for the love of gawd Santorum/Jindal/Graham/Pataki just LEAVE. Nobody will vote for any of them - unfortunately they will stick around because next month's GOP debate will yet again have an "undercard/kid's table" debate. That really needs to end this late into the process.... I think you're probably right. Too bad. I like John Kasich. I don't much care for Rand Paul and slightly like chris Christie. Don't care about Bobby Jindal or Pataky orJeb Bush, and I can't stand Lindsey Graham. The evangelistic community will give Iowa to Dr Carson but then he's on his own. WSS Yeah, he had to have known that when he started all that crazy talk about keeping medicare/medicaid/Social Security, not simply throwing out all illegals, and, worst of all, "bipartisanship" - that he was done. That is way too rational line of thinking for the Tea Party hardliners. Moderation is dead I suppose; now when you're choosing candidates, it's all about which side of the cliff you want to blindly jump off of, the far right or the far left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 The Lord willing, Carson will win it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 The Lord willing, Carson will win it all. Good point. If Carson doesn't win, that means Jesus didn't want him to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Good point. If Carson doesn't win, that means Jesus didn't want him to etch it in stone, you all read it here first. Good call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Yeah, he had to have known that when he started all that crazy talk about keeping medicare/medicaid/Social Security, not simply throwing out all illegals, and, worst of all, "bipartisanship" - that he was done. That is way too rational line of thinking for the Tea Party hardliners. Moderation is dead I suppose; now when you're choosing candidates, it's all about which side of the cliff you want to blindly jump off of, the far right or the far left. To be fair, Trump is still widely in first place and has suggested we can not only keep medicare+social security, but we can expand both. He said recently everybody has to have health care "no matter what it costs." Also said we have the resources to expand social security with more intelligent spending. Trump is a bipartisan type of moderate on pretty much every issue, except for illegal immigration. He has a lot of tea party support, which is surprising to me since Trump barely represents any of the tea party ideas, suggesting "everybody deserves health care" is pretty much blasphemy to the them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Also, Carson added more cinder blocks to his feet by saying not only does he want to get rid of obamacare, he also wants to get rid of Medicare/Medicaid. Odd position for a famed Doctor to have, but regardless the guy is a clown and has no chance outside of the crazies in Iowa. Seems like he's really strong in his faith, but apparently reducing government spending is more important to God than giving health care to those who can't afford it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 That's probably true for election purposes. The American voters aren't that bright. Given the choice of just plain old free shit that costs the country a huge amount of money, vs free shit that isn't as expensive but might take a little bit of effort on their part... Talking about replacing very expensive programs with streamlined and more efficient ones is never a winning argument. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Bush's money is running out, and is laying off staff and cutting pay on staff - not a good sign for JEB, but a good sign for the Union. Randall Paul can probably run a lower dollar insurgency campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Also, Carson added more cinder blocks to his feet by saying not only does he want to get rid of obamacare, he also wants to get rid of Medicare/Medicaid. Odd position for a famed Doctor to have, but regardless the guy is a clown and has no chance outside of the crazies in Iowa. Seems like he's really strong in his faith, but apparently reducing government spending is more important to God than giving health care to those who can't afford it. The assumptions you're making here are an indication of why 'Murrica is broke and broken and why there is probably not a fix via Federal elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 The assumptions you're making here are an indication of why 'Murrica is broke and broken and why there is probably not a fix via Federal elections. Carson's idea on health reform has been fuzzy and flipped around more than a $10 hooker, but basically: - Carson would eliminate tax incentives given to companies that offer their employees health insurance - Carson believes people would voluntarily leave Medicare in favor of health savings accounts - Proposing the government give $2000/year to each persons HSA, despite the government currently spending ~$11000 on each Medicare beneficiary - obviously some higher, some lower. I have great health insurance through my employer and am not a medicare/medicaid user, but I understand what Carson is trying to do and it is not a good thing for Americans in my opinion. Dinking Medicare would be a huge problem for many people come general election time. It's not a matter of "effort" or "free stuff", it's a matter of expecting the average Medicaid user (some much higher, some much lower - but on average) to pay $9000 out of pocket MORE than they are paying now for their health needs. I know many people on Medicaid who wouldn't be able to afford that. Couple with the delusion that he thinks Americans will voluntarily give up said Medicare and pay more out of pocket. The more dangerous notion is that people would vote for this guy, who basically knows nothing about anything he talks about - but he makes them "feel good" because he's humble, soft spoken, and God is #1 to him. --- I'm not opposed to health savings accounts* - but they don't work for everybody, especially when the gov't contribution would only be $2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Kasich earned my respect by slamming his fellow candidates ridiculous, pandering and quite frankly unfuckingamerican proposals. Shitcanning medicare/Medicaid would have sunk the party cause of how many conservative elderly people "rely" on those programs. Without them most elderly people have no shot at affording the medications that keep them alive frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Kasich earned my respect by slamming his fellow candidates ridiculous, pandering and quite frankly unfuckingamerican proposals. Shitcanning medicare/Medicaid would have sunk the party cause of how many conservative elderly people "rely" on those programs. Without them most elderly people have no shot at affording the medications that keep them alive frankly. Seems like this would be a good thing to start a thread on, since he specifically slammed Carson's 10% flat tax, abolishing medicaid/medicare, and Trump for wanting to deport 11mil illegals - but I don't think it would make it past the first page without turning into a discussion about thermodynamics and evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 and fucking magnets, don't forget the fucking magnets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Kasich earned my respect by slamming his fellow candidates ridiculous, pandering and quite frankly unfuckingamerican proposals. Shitcanning medicare/Medicaid would have sunk the party cause of how many conservative elderly people "rely" on those programs. Without them most elderly people have no shot at affording the medications that keep them alive frankly.Of course nobody is talking about throwing the elderly under the bus.People are actually talking about replacing an old expensive under productive system for a better one. That claim is made by left-wing prevaricators and believed by early onset dementia sufferers. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Of course nobody is talking about throwing the elderly under the bus. People are actually talking about replacing an old expensive under productive system for a better one. That claim is made by left-wing prevaricators and believed by early onset dementia sufferers. WSS Dumping medicare and contributing < 20% per capita (compared to what the gov't currently pays) into health savings accounts instead means that if you threw an elderly person under a bus, they'd be best off not getting out from under that bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Of course nobody is talking about throwing the elderly under the bus. People are actually talking about replacing an old expensive under productive system for a better one. That claim is made by left-wing prevaricators and believed by early onset dementia sufferers. WSS "any" perturbation in medicare/Medicaid coverage could "literally" cost people their lives. And Kasich understood that. "IF" you're gonna replace those programs it has to be one of the most professional and detailed replacements that has ever been done not just by govt but by the free market too. You couldn't roll it out half assed like Obamacare that's for sure. Listening to republicans give the same private vs public program arguments I was frankly unconvinced. If you're gonna even breathe about those programs, you'd better have an alternative that you've been working on for years ready to go to present to the American people. Some dumbass republican who's main intention is to throw a windfall at his insurance donors doesn't sway me one iota. Seriously, if there's anything that could potentially torpedo the republican party completely out of the political scene it would be a cockup with old people's health insurance. Grandma and Grandpa not getting their meds and dying in their recliners horribly.....doneso's for the republican and/or tea party. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 And it wouldn't be liberals being done with the party, their base constituency would evacuate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 like Japanese people from Godzila making landfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Medicaid is welfare health care. Medicare is paid for your entire life until age 65. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Medicaid is welfare health care. Medicare is paid for your entire life until age 65. Big difference. Carson would like to get rid of both and social security. But Medicaid is still a necessary thing, not all poor people are bad ya know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 like Japanese people from Godzila making landfall. I think you stumbled on that pretty fair comparison. The danger posed by restructuring Medicare Medicaid and social security is about equal to a rubber lizard shot through a macro lens. But fear mongering has been working for a good many years, why stop now? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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