DieHardBrownsFan Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Carson would like to get rid of both and social security. But Medicaid is still a necessary thing, not all poor people are bad ya know. Can you show me a link to where that is his position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Carson would like to get rid of both and social security. But Medicaid is still a necessary thing, not all poor people are bad ya know. Next year I get early Social Security in addition to the Military Retirement I have been getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-WB-58809 There's a link. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I think the media is grossly underrating Sanders. He owns the 18-30 crowd - which is now the biggest voter block in the country if they turn out. The thing about the Sanders supporters is I think many aren't being polled and many will turn out. I think it's going to be a lot closer than the Hillary land slide the media is predicting (and wants) I'd be much more intrigued by sanders but he doesn't own shit and the younger generations never have the power they think they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-WB-58809 There's a link. WSS Not entirely fair because this is the clarification after extreme backlash came his way, he earlier said he'd get rid of it. Now he said people will voluntarily switch to health savings plan where the gov't will contribute $2000 to per year, which I explained why is terrible earlier on. At best you can say his details are fuzzy, but as its laid out so far it's not so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Yes the details might be fuzzy. Everybody's details are fuzzy. But not nearly as fuzzy as the fear mongering that you bought into. Those came from the opposition's propaganda. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Yes the details might be fuzzy. Everybody's details are fuzzy. But not nearly as fuzzy as the fear mongering that you bought into. Those came from the opposition's propaganda. WSS I gave my evaluation of his plan as I understand it. If anybody has any corrections or thinks I'm wrong I'm all ears. Aside from that, I also disagree with him on many things - including the eliminate all deduction 10% flat tax. I disagree with a flat tax to begin with, and I think some deductions should remain (like companies that cover employee health care) Most people here seem to like him for his personal beliefs and persona, but he also has batshit political ideas too. I'm just saying he called me the reason federal elections don't matter, but I inform myself well above average of what I'm voting for - IMO Carson's ideas are very dangerous and flat out stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I'm not saying you didnt. I'm saying that the information you got had probably been though the campaign teams that are against him. That's all. I never said you made it up. Getting wrong information from either side happens all the time. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Who called you the reason federal elections don't matter? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Who called you the reason federal elections don't matter? WSS I was referring to mohican saying why murica is broken. It's broken because people vote for people like Carson because he's nice and he shares the same personal beliefs. Cuts and reform is nice, but not cuts that are detrimental to large chunks of the population.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I was referring to mohican saying why murica is broken. It's broken because people vote for people like Carson because he's nice and he shares the same personal beliefs. Cuts and reform is nice, but not cuts that are detrimental to large chunks of the population.. True enough. Why do you think anybody voted for Obama? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 True enough. Why do you think anybody voted for Obama? WSS Similar reasons, many people support Trump for the same reasons. Carson sounds really good, at the debate he said health savings accounts would be an optional alternative to Medicare - not get rid of it (he has said that before though), I think the issue with that is nobody will opt go pay more out of pocket for health care. Trump is driving on emotions too, but when you cut past all the orange and noise he still has some more moderate stances that are somewhat reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 From Steve's link: He said it is “completely false” to say he would eliminate the programs. “That’s a narrative that somebody is putting out there to scare people,” Mr. Carson said. If someone prefers the current government programs to the health-savings-account approach, “I’m not going to deny you the privilege of doing that,” he added. ********************************************************* Still waiting for the link, Edward, where Carson said he wanted to get rid of it. Got it from Hillary, perhaps? Back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Kasich said some good things on the recent debate, calling out the 'fantasy' from other candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 And I was pleasantly surprised by the more cutting nature of the questions compared to previous debates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 And Ted Cruz is now complaining about the questions being too mean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 . On the other hand I loved chris Christie's response to the fantasy football question. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 And I thought each candidate was less caustic toward the others than last time and more focused on the real enemy, Hillary. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Except Kasich, basically. There did seem to be a lot less trump-bashing/worshipping though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 That was the best debate so far and it was in large part due to the moderators. Cruz looked like a pussy complaining about them. If Cruz doesn't like questions about what the candidates "publically" say about each other in between debates, take it up with them. It's valid to ask people why did you say this about this person or that person. I liked that a couple of the candidates final got to put their balls on the table, Christie came off a lot better than the last debate. So did Kasich, Rubio and Paul. Still like Paul the best, he could do one of these debates on a moments notice cause he knows all this shit and doesn't need to be coached for weeks on what to say like you could tell Carson and Fiorina had done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 That was the best debate so far and it was in large part due to the moderators. Cruz looked like a pussy complaining about them. If Cruz doesn't like questions about what the candidates "publically" say about each other in between debates, take it up with them. It's valid to ask people why did you say this about this person or that person. I liked that a couple of the candidates final got to put their balls on the table, Christie came off a lot better than the last debate. So did Kasich, Rubio and Paul. Still like Paul the best, he could do one of these debates on a moments notice cause he knows all this shit and doesn't need to be coached for weeks on what to say like you could tell Carson and Fiorina had done. It wasn't the questions were mean...the questions were obviously biased and I was glad to see the moderators get called down for it. This debate was supposed to be focused on the economy not tabloid news. Rubio made an excellent point about the mainstream media bias when asked about a liberal newspaper calling for him to resign for missing votes due to campaigning when the same liberal rag supported Kerry and Obama who missed even more votes when running and it wasn't an issue for this liberal rag when the democrat candidate missed votes to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 They were asking the questions people want to be answered. Jeb Bush is riding Rubio for missing votes? Then ask Rubio about it. If what he says stands up to scrutiny (about others missing votes) then it should be the end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Despite the best efforts of CNBC to have a food fight amongst the candidates, this became a debate about the economy, about tax policy, government spending and social security because the republican candidates refused to go along with the game/setup these lib moderators had set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I would much rather have moderators from the other side, because you don't get served these puffy questions. Except 'what's your greatest weakness' which most candidates avoided. You get questions people want to hear, not just repeated mantras and vague policy outlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I think Rubio did well, but I still don't like his justification about hating, not voting, and not running for re-election in the senate. Carson did OK but didn't have much thrown his way. Cruz did pretty well Trump did OK, the personal senator gaffe didn't look so good - he actually said a weakness which was a surprise, otherwise did fine Everybody else I'd call a loser (Bush big time), except maybe Kasich and Christie who did fine. Kasich let off the gas after the first 10 minutes I think that was a mistake. From Steve's link: He said it is “completely false” to say he would eliminate the programs. “That’s a narrative that somebody is putting out there to scare people,” Mr. Carson said. If someone prefers the current government programs to the health-savings-account approach, “I’m not going to deny you the privilege of doing that,” he added. ********************************************************* Still waiting for the link, Edward, where Carson said he wanted to get rid of it. Got it from Hillary, perhaps? Back it up. He did an interview with fox news this past Sunday that gave the impression he wanted to get rid of medicare/medicaid for his $2000 HSA plan but then he clarified it later. It would be voluntary/people could opt in. Obviously I wouldn't expect many adults to opt in (and pay more out of pocket) - but if it started at infancy it'd probably be better. Give everybody $2000/year from the day they're born til the day they die. Pass it on to family and transfer balances between family. But you could also buy supplemental catastrophic insurance (typically extremely high deductible insurance coupled with the HSA) But that's only the 79 mil people currently enrolled, if you enrolled at a later date you'd have a tiny savings account. The biggest problem with it is giving everybody an average. Some people get like 1 physical per year, some get $200,000 operations. Everybody spends a different amount of money, so averaging it out would be pretty imbalanced. I also don't like the simple 10-15% flat tax plan. I think that the tiered income tax is appropriate - also many deductions need to go, but some should stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I would much rather have moderators from the other side, because you don't get served these puffy questions. Except 'what's your greatest weakness' which most candidates avoided. You get questions people want to hear, not just repeated mantras and vague policy outlines. Well no different from the campaign itself all the way to the State of the Union address. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Despite the best efforts of CNBC to have a food fight amongst the candidates, this became a debate about the No it was 'because" of them that the debate ended up being substantive. Remember they're the ones aking the questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 At one part of the debate the lib moderator John Hargrove told Rubio his tax plan favored the wealthy one percent over the average citizen and Rubio told him he had his facts wrong and that Hargrove who initially put out that story had to come back and correct his own story that Rubio's tax plan did not favor the most wealthy in the country. Hargrove denied it but the fact of the matter is Hargrove did correct his own wrong story. So now you have moderators either incompetent or flat out lying. Also when Trump claimed credit for reducing the debate to 2 hours and Hargrove said the debate was always set for 2 hours that was either another flat out lie or incompetence by the moderator because CNBC absolutely did back down on the 3 hour debate when trump and Carson threatened to pull out if it was 3 hours. And Cleve the republican candidates got to the point where they went into policy instead of answering the tabloid questions by the lib moderators. This was primarily in spite of the moderators not because of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I think Rubio did well, but I still don't like his justification about hating, not voting, and not running for re-election in the senate. Carson did OK but didn't have much thrown his way. Cruz did pretty well Trump did OK, the personal senator gaffe didn't look so good - he actually said a weakness which was a surprise, otherwise did fine Everybody else I'd call a loser (Bush big time), except maybe Kasich and Christie who did fine. Kasich let off the gas after the first 10 minutes I think that was a mistake. I think Carson hit a homerun here - with the help of the audience.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Zb7nh_lK4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 ^^^ Yea but that's kind of a soft ball. "I love their product, I did paid speeches for them, I was on their website without their permission - but I wasn't affiliated with them" I think Carson did well, but nothing to change his standing really. Grilled about his tax plan his only response was "your math is wrong" "you're wrong", etc. Trump did really well in that grilling/fact checking of Kasich, but I don't know why he dodged the question of H1B visas, I'm not sure why he did it because I agree with his stance on his website entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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