BaconHound Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 So, we should just trade away our most talented players in an effort to get better??? I dont think thats ever happened in the history of the league.... Really, who trades away a sure shot HOFer?.....especially one who loves his team and wants to stay?? And the contract doesnt matter(not a waste).....its not like we are cash strapped or need it for some better talent thats in waiting.... Player not players. How many teams draft 20 first round picks consecutively and end up with one who actually contributes to the team for five years? The contract isn't a waste now but if the Browns ever decide to bring in a good FA they have to over pay and as you go forward the picks, if used properly, would certainly help. Patriots let Welker, Ty Law, Vinateri, Revis, Asanta Samuel & Seymour all go when they were All Pro caliber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 If we can get a mildly competent team he'd be a bigger difference maker, I don't think we're that far off from being mildly competent really. Trading him off for a couple low end picks would probably do us more harm than good regardless. If he was gone our OL depth basically decreases to 0. This team fucking stinks, mildly competent is 8-8 which seems far fetched until we get the NFC East as the non-conference games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 A Pigeon in the hand Fixed. ok mud yrrrr up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 This team fucking stinks, mildly competent is 8-8 which seems far fetched until we get the NFC East as the non-conference games Getting rid of JT would make us stink harder. Even if we got a #20 + #45 pick or something odds are against us in replacing what he brings to the table. He's got 3-5+ more pro bowl years in him, hopefully enough time for us to turn it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Getting rid of JT would make us stink harder. Even if we got a #20 + #45 pick or something odds are against us in replacing what he brings to the table. He's got 3-5+ more pro bowl years in him, hopefully enough time for us to turn it around. The Browns have 3 All Pro OL Thomas, Mack & Bitonio and they draft Erving with the 19th pick. Is the offensive line the best in the NFL? Dominant? Top 5? And please don't give me PFF grades. Tell me what you see, the answer is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 How many teams draft 20 first round picks consecutively and end up with one who actually contributes to the team for five years? Patriots let Welker, Ty Law, Vinateri, Revis, Asanta Samuel & Seymour all go when they were All Pro caliber Even more reason not to trade him....lets see, team misses on every first round pick, almost every year.... So, lets trade our best player for another shot at screwing up the draft.....hey, odds are good well hit with that pick too And every team lets players "go" in FA, including the Browns(and Pats, amazing)....Call me when they trade their best player..... Your logic..."that we arent good, so we dont need good players".....just doesn't work... And the idea that trading a GREAT player so you can draft a PROSPECT is also a very very bad idea.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 The Browns have 3 All Pro OL Thomas, Mack & Bitonio and they draft Erving with the 19th pick. Is the offensive line the best in the NFL? Dominant? Top 5? And please don't give me PFF grades. Tell me what you see, the answer is no. I don't see too many weaknesses with the OL, we have some lapses with the interior OL and very few with the outside. Fullback that can't block, RB that can't see the hole, too long for pass plays to develop. There's far bigger issues than the OLine happening that makes them look worse than they are. Hoyer used to sit back there very comfortably but he was a guy with a quick release and quick decision most of the time - alters perception a little. For running we have no capable lead blockers, and our best back doesn't get the bulk of the carries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Even more reason not to trade him....lets see, team misses on every first round pick, almost every year.... So, lets trade our best player for another shot at screwing up the draft.....hey, odds are good well hit with that pick too And every team lets players "go" in FA, including the Browns(and Pats, amazing)....Call me when they trade their best player..... Your logic..."that we arent good, so we dont need good players".....just doesn't work... And the idea that trading a GREAT player so you can draft a PROSPECT is also a very very bad idea.... It has nothing to do with not needing good players. It has to do with trying to get more good players when your great one doesn't really make a difference. Joe Thomas has been great for 8 years, the Browns have one season where they won more than 5 games. Trent Williams another great left tackle Redskins have won more than 6 games once since he came on the scene. Love the blind side but unfortunately you need really good skill players. I guarantee you most NFL fans don't know how good Whitworth for the Bengals is or who plays LT for the Packers and Patriots. Joe is great, doesn't deserve to be on a loser but being sentimental when the team has a lot of deficiencies may not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I don't see too many weaknesses with the OL, we have some lapses with the interior OL and very few with the outside. Fullback that can't block, RB that can't see the hole, too long for pass plays to develop. There's far bigger issues than the OLine happening that makes them look worse than they are. Hoyer used to sit back there very comfortably but he was a guy with a quick release and quick decision most of the time - alters perception a little. For running we have no capable lead blockers, and our best back doesn't get the bulk of the carries. Bitonio is T2 OL player and Thomas is T9 for penalties at 7 & 5 respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 A dick in the hand richiswhere's fave subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Bitonio is T2 OL player and Thomas is T9 for penalties at 7 & 5 respectively. Yet we have the second rated line in the entire league. Funny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 So, we should just trade away our most talented players in an effort to get better??? I dont think thats ever happened in the history of the league.... Herschel *cough* Walker *cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkid3 Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Delete this thread. It didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Gip, you do realize who it is your use of the "movie thing" puts you in the company of... don't you? And no, it's not WestSideSteve... I'm not saying that I'd take the deal, but just a first and second from a team I don't believe will be nearly as good next year will be reasonably good picks. Wait..... It just occurred to me if they are making a Super Bowl run in 2015 and the addition of Joe Thomas would bring them closer. Therefore they will draft low in 2016. Never mind. I could have just deleted this but wanted to admit my error WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I'm not saying that I'd take the deal, but just a first and second form a team I don't believe will be nearly as good next year will be reasonably good picks. Wait..... It just occurred to me if they are making a Super Bowl run in 2015 and the addition of Joe Thomas would bring them closer. Therefore they will draft low in 2016. Never mind. I could have just deleted this but wanted to admit my error WSS Noble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Yet we have the second rated line in the entire league. Funny... So Duke Johnson sucks. He's averaging 3.2 ypc behind the second rated OL in the league. PFF have their ratings and unfortunately so do the fans. Watching every game other than the second half of week one I can't remember three consecutive quarters where I felt our OL was dominating or imposing their will on the DL. Some view sabermetrics as the end all be all I tend to look at rush yards per game and yards per carry. The same way we all measure our defense against the run. We don't grade out each play, we are don't give credit to the 15 times a game the other team is held under 3 ypc we care about the 30 yard breakout run. But as Browns fans, myself included, we tend to see what we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 So Duke Johnson sucks. He's averaging 3.2 ypc behind the second rated OL in the league. PFF have their ratings and unfortunately so do the fans. Watching every game other than the second half of week one I can't remember three consecutive quarters where I felt our OL was dominating or imposing their will on the DL. Some view sabermetrics as the end all be all I tend to look at rush yards per game and yards per carry. The same way we all measure our defense against the run. We don't grade out each play, we are don't give credit to the 15 times a game the other team is held under 3 ypc we care about the 30 yard breakout run. But as Browns fans, myself included, we tend to see what we want. Wasn't it you who was shitting over using passer rating and YPG as metrics for successful QB's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Really, who trades away a sure shot HOFer?.....especially one who loves his team and wants to stay?? For the first time I read the "wants to stay" and wondered why... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Wasn't it you who was shitting over using passer rating and YPG as metrics for successful QB's? Quite the opposite I was praising Mccown for Rating, Yards per Game as top 10 QB stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Quite the opposite I was praising Mccown for Rating, Yards per Game as top 10 QB stats. Oh, okay. I couldn't remember who it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Even more reason not to trade him....lets see, team misses on every first round pick, almost every year.... So, lets trade our best player for another shot at screwing up the draft.....hey, odds are good well hit with that pick too And every team lets players "go" in FA, including the Browns(and Pats, amazing)....Call me when they trade their best player..... Your logic..."that we arent good, so we dont need good players".....just doesn't work... And the idea that trading a GREAT player so you can draft a PROSPECT is also a very very bad idea.... i hear ya, but i think i would leave the trade decision up to joe..he has his money. There does not seem to be a superbowl in the immediate future of this organization. He needs to ask himself what is more important at this point...Playing for a championship or playing to make the fans happy by staying in cleveland and going nowhere as far as playoffs and championships.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I think I would use Joe Thomas as an example. Next penalty on #73 I call time out and say why don't u sit out the rest of this series Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I think I would use Joe Thomas as an example. Next penalty on #73 I call time out and say why don't u sit out the rest of this series Joe. LoL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Oh, okay. I couldn't remember who it was. And I don't want this to be a "bash Joe Thomas" thread. Joe is great and the teams woes aren't his fault. I just want to be practical. If you think Farmer is competent then give him as many picks as you can over the next 2 years to build his vision. If you don't fire Ray Ray keep all your players and let the next guy lay out his plan. The Browns are the organization who franchised tag their fucking kicker twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 The Browns are the organization who franchised tag their fucking kicker twice. Dawson is probably wishing he had never left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Dawson is probably wishing he had never left. 10-14 with San Fran, Browns 9-15 Salary $4.1 million vs $3 million California weather vs Cleveland weather Organizational History Thinking he is glad he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 10-14 with San Fran, Browns 9-15 Salary $4.1 million vs $3 million California weather vs Cleveland weather Organizational History Thinking he is glad he left. I'm sure Phil is having a great time kicking those moral victory field goals in front of 5000 fans. The niners organization is a tire fire and one of the few places currently worse than Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 I'm sure Phil is having a great time kicking those moral victory field goals in front of 5000 fans. The niners organization is a tire fire and one of the few places currently worse than Cleveland. Currently but they are three years removed from the Superbowl and two years from NFC Championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Currently but they are three years removed from the Superbowl and two years from NFC Championship Which makes things that much worse. They no longer have the HC that was the root of their success. Benched their $60 million QB. Built a brand new stadium 2-1/2 hours away from San Fran, and can't put asses in the seat. Not to mention the majority of their talented players either jumped ship or retired. Hell, if I wasn't a Browns fan I would almost feel sorry for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Oh, okay. I couldn't remember who it was. I'm thinking TacoBell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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