flyingfooldoug Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Looking like the new FO is flexing their muscles and showing the anal side of things to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 So Mack left for less money then or are we debating what "less" means?You said two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 You said two... I was led to believe Schwartz did as well. If I am off, I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I was led to believe Schwartz did as well. If I am off, I apologize. I was led to believe the same....and thats what local reporters have been reporting all day.....could be speculation, but that was the reason given for pulling his offr/////because we offered the highest price, then he "supposedly" wanted to go back and negotiate more with anoher team.....and that prompted the Browns to pull the offer so they wouldnt be "used" for his negotiations elsewhere.... heresay, I know.....bt I believe it was a quality leak to local reporters..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 If we are planning on a couple of bad seasons and really starting from scratch then I actually would endorse the Ghoolie plan re: Joe Thomas. Please don't stone me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 If we are planning on a couple of bad seasons and really starting from scratch then I actually would endorse the Ghoolie plan re: Joe Thomas. Please don't stone me. Honestly, it wouldn't be bad if that is their intended goal. I wouldn't be shocked to see it on draft day. Farmer tried it before the deadline with the Broncos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 If we are planning on a couple of bad seasons and really starting from scratch then I actually would endorse the Ghoolie plan re: Joe Thomas. Please don't stone me. The Ghoolie theory "offensive line are dime a dozen" is apparently going to be put to the test..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I was led to believe the same....and thats what local reporters have been reporting all day.....could be speculation, but that was the reason given for pulling his offr/////because we offered the highest price, then he "supposedly" wanted to go back and negotiate more with anoher team.....and that prompted the Browns to pull the offer so they wouldnt be "used" for his negotiations elsewhere.... heresay, I know.....bt I believe it was a quality leak to local reporters..... The Browns offering 7.5$ million and pulling the offer does not equate to Schwartz signing for less by getting $6 million. He wasn't choosing between 7.5 and 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 The Browns offering 7.5$ million and pulling the offer does not equate to Schwartz signing for less by getting $6 million. He wasn't choosing between 7.5 and 6 OK, his agent was. If it was all about $$$ Schwartz should fire his agent for poor negotiating..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 OK, his agent was. If it was all about $$$ Schwartz should fire his agent for poor negotiating..... agree there. But we don't know how much guaranteed and how much total Browns offered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 The Ghoolie theory "offensive line are dime a dozen" is apparently going to be put to the test..... Yeah, the supply is not quite that high, but I think OL replaceability is higher than people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 The analytical approach in progress. WTF makes Haslam think this will keep the fans interested? I know we're stupid and just a large group of losers, blindly following our team with some stupid loyalty that was forged 50 years ago, but come on....what is the plan here....really? It's looking more like the plan is to cut costs to the penny, and make as much as possible off the fans as long as possible, then dump what's left of this so called NFL franchise. I really don't care about losing the players we lost, if we were active in free agency. I haven't seen anything to give us any kind of hope that there is a plan to build anything here....other than a new mansion for Haslam. Screw this guy! All he has done is succeeded in making a pathetic franchise worse than we could have imagined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Okay some random thoughts after day 1. My biggest disappointment isn't in who they didn't keep, it's in who they did keep, but I'll get to that later. What the 'plan' might be: 1) The Browns offensive line is being retooled for a more power run game. Perhaps that's why they tendered Pazstor and are letting Mack and Schwartz go. In order to improve the run game, we're going to sacrifice pass blocking but that doesn't matter so much because... 2) ...we're going to draft Jared Goff. Goff demonstrated poise and toughness behind a crappy offensive line. He's going to release the ball quickly, in just over two seconds, because that's what Hue Jackson is going to coach him to do. Andy Dalton improved his time-to-pass under Jackson from ~2.6 to ~2.2 seconds. When a QB releases that quickly, there is a lot less pressure on the offensive line to pass block. So for now, I'm going to hold back on knee-jerk reactions that the sky is falling in Berea. We'll see if my guess as to the 'plan' based on what the Browns do between now and the draft. As for the biggest dissappointment: 1) Why the hell didn't they cut Manziel at 4pm on Wednesday after saying that his 'roster status would be made clear' on March 9th? The rumor is they hope to get some conditional late round pick. What that tells me is that they value a seventh round pick they MIGHT get over their integrity. I've said all along this team's biggest problem is in the culture, and not cutting Manziel makes me thing they still don't get that. 2) And why is Dwayne Bowe still on the roster? Do they think they're going to be able resurrect his career? C'mon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 There is absolutely no profit to be made by cutting Johnny immediately. We aren't punishing him because he doesn't care. We have to pay him anyway so what's the difference? Nope probably no chance of even a seventh conditional but what's the difference? It's actually more punishment to let him sit and wait while other teams take care of their quarterback needs and make him even less valuable to them. Pretty much the same with Dwayne Bowe. We aren't going to have to worry about the roster spot for a while. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 There is absolutely no profit to be made by cutting Johnny immediately. We aren't punishing him because he doesn't care. We have to pay him anyway so what's the difference? Nope probably no chance of even a seventh conditional but what's the difference? It's actually more punishment to let him sit and wait while other teams take care of their quarterback needs and make him even less valuable to them. Pretty much the same with Dwayne Bowe. We aren't going to have to worry about the roster spot for a while. WSS I disagree, their is profit to be made, but the currency isn't money. I believe it's important to send the message that nothing is more important than improving the team's culture and standing behind the no-nonsense we-won't-tolerate-crap stance they espoused in press releases and in media interviews. Bowe I can understand keeping for now, but Manziel, no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren15 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Can we make this the Browns theme song now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I disagree, their is profit to be made, but the currency isn't money. I believe it's important to send the message that nothing is more important than improving the team's culture and standing behind the no-nonsense we-won't-tolerate-crap stance they espoused in press releases and in media interviews. Bowe I can understand keeping for now, but Manziel, no way. I guess that's possible but frankly Hue Jackson is coming from the Cincinnati Bengals, a system not particularly known for squeaky clean standards. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Using anal ytics, Manziel to Bowe to Gordon seems like a helluva double play combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Gipson was the only consistent DB on team over last three years. You're right, no loss there Also one of the few starters on the team all of the past three years. Gip's issue was in the past two seasons he missed half of a season due to injury. The Browns offering 7.5$ million and pulling the offer does not equate to Schwartz signing for less by getting $6 million. He wasn't choosing between 7.5 and 6 Bingo! agree there. But we don't know how much guaranteed and how much total Browns offered ... or the duration, but hard for me to believe we weren't in the 5-yr/50% ballpark... There is absolutely no profit to be made by cutting Johnny immediately. Correct... the "profit" comes if he is suspended by the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 They did a bang up job. Maybe with another player of their caliber the Browns could have pushed it to 4 wins. Not the point- on a 1-53 importance\value\performance scale, Oh, I'll put Joe Thomas at #1. Most of the guys who walked would be in our top 10. Like if Bademosi or Carder left, do you think I'd be pissed? If you want my 0.02 on the matter- the FO has learned nothing from the last misadventure when they let guys like Ward, Sheard, and Skrine walk. I disagree, their is profit to be made, but the currency isn't money. I believe it's important to send the message that nothing is more important than improving the team's culture and standing behind the no-nonsense we-won't-tolerate-crap stance they espoused in press releases and in media interviews. Bowe I can understand keeping for now, but Manziel, no way. Yup, like if we can get a conditional seventh, and someone takes Manziel's salary off our hands, he's worth keeping around a few extra days? MK gossip is saying a few teams have minor interest. We have tons of cap room- and IMHO, making a statement about no more BS is more important that a couple million. Sushi the bean-counter is starting to emerge from the shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 We lost the best players that got us to 3-13 and kept the rest If that's the best we have, that's sad. Maybe we need a better best? Or maybe we're overvaluing guys just because we're so desperate for success that we'll cling on to anything that only halfway stinks like shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Everything I've read says the Browns didn't negotiate! It's reminiscent of TJ Ward, Sheard, Skrine, letting players walk after being developed. What is their long term plan? I realize they have an uphill battle and Farmer dug us a big hole with his lousy drafts but how do Browns replace all these guys? Do any of you guys have a wide receiver in mind? Pass rusher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Yeah, the supply is not quite that high, but I think OL replaceability is higher than people think. It's all about consistency on the OL. OL aren't dime a dozen, but you don't need five first round guys across the board. You need five guys that can play together. That's all there is to it. I'd venture to bet (and this is where Tour would probably come in) that 75% of negative plays are due to missed assignments or bad reads rather than straight BOB losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 It's all about consistency on the OL. OL aren't dime a dozen, but you don't need five first round guys across the board. You need five guys that can play together. That's all there is to it. I'd venture to bet (and this is where Tour would probably come in) that 75% of negative plays are due to missed assignments or bad reads rather than straight BOB losses. Dude you are right on the money, an offensive line doesn't need a bunch of superstars but they need a team that works together and that doesn't happen overnight. But usually that also requires a good Center. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I'd venture to bet (and this is where Tour would probably come in) that 75% of negative plays are due to missed assignments or bad reads rather than straight BOB losses. For 2015 I'd agree with that percentage in PassPro, but much lower number for us running last season. Someone almost always seemed to fail 1-on-1. Maybe 25% of the time it was a failed passoff in a ZBS flow. Of the 75% fail rate running probably 40% was attributable to the OL, 20% TE(s) and 15% FB... which considering how little we used a FB is quite high. Have I mentioned we need a FB recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Time to get rid of Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Time to get rid of Joe. Expect much raging but I see it coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Gilbert next, or are we going to see if he fits in better with Horton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Gilbert next, or are we going to see if he fits in better with Horton? There isn't any value so I think they will see how he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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