Why is the media deliberately attacking the Arc Encounter?

[Westside Steve]

PS just for the record I do think the Constitution was perfectly clear about both those issues and has just been twisted by activist courts.

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

Ok i "might" entertain the discussion that the original intent was not to disqualify god entirely.....but certainly the state sponsorship of a religion based theme park is exactly the kind of bullshit they had in mind.

[OldBrownsFan]

I don't see this as much different than cities who have had tax levies to build football stadiums and tax payers foot the bill for private owners of a football team. The cities know these stadiums and having sports teams bring dollars into the city and pay off in the long run never mind many tax payers will never personally benefit from the stadiums or go to the games.

 

This ark in Kentucky will draw tourists for years to come and pay dividends in the long run for Kentucky. it was a good investment much as cities invest in football teams with building stadiums with tax dollars.

[Westside Steve]

Ok i "might" entertain the discussion that the original intent was not to disqualify god entirely.....but certainly the state sponsorship of a religion based theme park is exactly the kind of bullshit they had in mind.

Think what you wish sir. I guess it's in the hands of the Supreme Court if and when people like you want to spend the time and money to take it there.

WSS

[MLD Woody]

I don't see this as much different than cities who have had tax levies to build football stadiums and tax payers foot the bill for private owners of a football team. The cities know these stadiums and having sports teams bring dollars into the city and pay off in the long run never mind many tax payers will never personally benefit from the stadiums or go to the games.

 

This ark in Kentucky will draw tourists for years to come and pay dividends in the long run for Kentucky. it was a good investment much as cities invest in football teams with building stadiums with tax dollars.

The religious nature of what is being built would be the difference.

 

Then again, football is much more my religion than Christianity ever was.

[MLD Woody]

If you think part of the constitution should be reviewed, it doesn't mean you think the whole thing is invalid

[Westside Steve]

If you think part of the constitution should be reviewed, it doesn't mean you think the whole thing is invalid

It means that any part of it can be considered invalid at any time for any reason because of a temporary or permanent shift in public opinion.

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

If the constitution were to be amended i think it should come from a vote of the people and not the politicians.

[Clevfan4life]

Like britain did with brexit.

[Westside Steve]

If the constitution were to be amended i think it should come from a vote of the people and not the politicians.

But that's not how it's set up. Unless they change it...

WSS

[tiamat63]

It means that any part of it can be considered invalid at any time for any reason because of a temporary or permanent shift in public opinion.

WSS

Errr. ...is that not how amendments are adopted? A shift in public opinion that influences law makers?

[MLD Woody]

It means that any part of it can be considered invalid at any time for any reason because of a temporary or permanent shift in public opinion.

WSS

Sure. But just because you think one part should be changed, doesn't mean you think it should be abolished.

 

And just because you agree with one part, doesn't mean you're a strict constitutionalist.

[tiamat63]

proving anyone can call themselves whatever they want but that doesn't necessarily make it so.

 

 

Funny, we can't apply that same logic evenly on this board.

[OldBrownsFan]

Funny, we can't apply that same logic evenly on this board.

 

Just saying many times actions speak louder than words.

[Westside Steve]

Errr. ...is that not how amendments are adopted? A shift in public opinion that influences law makers?

Kind of but it's not a vote of the people. We are a republic which was designed to keep the Great unwashed away from the controls of power.

WSS

[Pumpkin Eater]

I think the founders had the right idea not allowing people who did not own property to the right to vote. There would be no pandering to those on welfare if that were the case.

[Pumpkin Eater]

They also had the right idea by not having a federal income tax that way the federal government cannot pull the states hostage with funding dollars.

[Clevfan4life]

Oh ffs

[Westside Steve]

They also had the right idea by not having a federal income tax that way the federal government cannot pull the states hostage with funding dollars.

If I may quote one of Chris's Countrymen, "Meet the new boss; same as the old boss"

WSS

[MLD Woody]

Funny, we can't apply that same logic evenly on this board.

Funny indeed

[tiamat63]

Kind of but it's not a vote of the people. We are a republic which was designed to keep the Great unwashed away from the controls of power.

WSS

 

 

If the elected representation is the voice of the people... yada yada yada.

 

 

Regardless if you meant it or not, I do agree with your bit on the controls of power.

[Westside Steve]

If the elected representation is the voice of the people... yada yada yada.

 

 

Regardless if you meant it or not, I do agree with your bit on the controls of power.

 

As to the first statement if is the key word.

 

 

(As for the 2nd you probably always should. )

 

WSS

[LogicIsForSquares]

I am not the least bit religious and I am fine with Kentucky pitching in on a project that will produce a great return on investment. If it was some money pit that was kept around to endorse a particular religion then I could see the disdain.

 

The state will use some of the tax revenue to buy science books for kids.

[jbluhm86]

 

doesn't change the separation of church and state clause in the constitution. Or did you forget about the constitution?

 

 

I think that you are confusing separation of church and state with the Establishment and Free Exercise clauses of the First Amendment. The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear within the actual Constitution itself; it was coined by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802, in which he describes what he interpreted the what the First Amendment meant when regarding religion.

 

...This ark in Kentucky will draw tourists for years to come and pay dividends in the long run for Kentucky. it was a good investment much as cities invest in football teams with building stadiums with tax dollars.

 

 

...State development studies have predicted that Ark Encounter would draw hundreds of thousands of visitors and bring in a net fiscal impact of $119 million over 10 years, including sales and income taxes...

 

These "pie-in-the-sky" tax estimates are all well and good, however, people are vastly underestimating the actual economic impact that the Ark Encounter is going to have for the taxpayers, and how the funding is actually set up. I found this article detailing how the actual funding for the exhibit was set up (for clarity, patheos.com is a website which advocates atheist views, however, the article mentioned above provides citations and links to the sources it used. From the article:

 

What is a TIF?

TIF stands for “Tax Increment Financing” and they’re usually issued in urban areas that are considered “blighted.” For example, suppose there was an abandoned shopping mall in a deteriorating community. A TIF can be set up to attract developers whose businesses may revitalize the area. The district officials could, for example, give the developers interest-free loans to build their project based on what they expect they can retrieve in property taxes over the next 30 years. That’s it. The developers don’t have to do anything differently from if they hadn’t been issued the TIFs at all. But now, rather than the property taxes going back to the community, the tax revenue is diverted to pay off the loan.

This can be a great help to the local economy if the development is a long-term success — it’s money well invested. The downside is, if the new developments fall short of projections (or fail entirely), the developers aren’t held liable for repayment and the burden of debt falls on the investors and taxpayers.

TIFs are controversial for a number of reasons and they’ve been discontinued in California, the first U.S. state to implement their use, because of the numerous lawsuits they led to...

Ark Encounter is being funded by a $62 million TIF.

It turns out the majority of Ark Encounter is being funded by a TIF granted by the City of Williamstown, Kentucky.

On November 1, 2012, a Memorandum of Agreement (begins on page 55) approving $62 million in funding for Ark Encounter, LLC was signed by officials of Williamstown and the County of Grant.

It said that, over a 30-year period, 75% of Ark Encounter’s real estate taxes would go toward repayment of the interest-free TIF. So instead of that money going to the city (and the citizens), it’ll be used to repay those bonds.

Also — pay attention to this one, potential Ark Park staffers — all employees working within the TIF district (that is, Ark Encounter) will pay a 2% job assessment fee on gross wages. In other words, $2 out of every pre-tax $100 dollars you make will go directly to paying off the for-profit Noah’s Ark attraction.

You can view the bond issued by The City of Williamstown to Ark Encounter here and here.

According to Section VIII of the Memorandum of Agreement, in addition to the $62 million, the city and county agreed to other incentives (courtesy of local taxpayers):

• $175,000 would be given to Ark Encounter to reimburse the amount they felt the property was overvalued.
• $19,000 would go to Ark Encounter’s real estate agent, representing 2% of the total purchase price of the land.
• 98 acres of Grant County land would be sold to Ark Encounter for $1 (yes, one dollar).

These are perfect examples of public funding, regardless of Ken Ham saying again and again that, “No money will be taken out of the state’s budget to fund the Ark.”