Contested presidential election on it's way?

[calfoxwc]

with a locked supreme court to uphold any lower (liberal) court ruling?

 

http://constitution.com/not-worried-voter-fraud-watch-clinton-campaign-manager-teaches-democrats-cheat/

[MLD Woody]

Yep, the only way you'll lose if the Dems cheat. Definitely.

[Westside Steve]

Yep, the only way you'll lose if the Dems cheat. Definitely.

Well it's not the only way but they are crooked.

 

WSS

[MLD Woody]

Well it's not the only way but they are crooked.

 

WSS

 

It is everyone else's fault. We know.

[Westside Steve]

 

It is everyone else's fault. We know.

Weren't you just complaining about Cal typing the same thing over and over?

WSS

[MLD Woody]

Weren't you just complaining about Cal typing the same thing over and over?

WSS

You mean the same YouTube video in 6 threads that had nothing to do with the topic?

 

 

If you're counting what I posted then you might want to look in the mirror mr free shit

[Westside Steve]

You mean the same YouTube video in 6 threads that had nothing to do with the topic?

 

 

If you're counting what I posted then you might want to look in the mirror mr free shit

It is one of the main issues of the upcoming election and the past few then likely.

Free education forgiveness of student loans free healthcare Etc. Where am I wrong?

WSS

[Westside Steve]

PS I watched about 3 minutes of the Woodpecker show that was about all I could take.

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

dang, Steve - I watched three seconds of it and had to quit or I wouldn't have been

able to eat my breakfast. Repetition is perhaps the only way for learnin sometimes

[MLD Woody]

It is one of the main issues of the upcoming election and the past few then likely.

Free education forgiveness of student loans free healthcare Etc. Where am I wrong?

WSS

And those on the right here have a habit of blaming everyone else but their party for a loss. My point is the socially conservative views of the tea party are holding them back

 

Both are equally legitimate

 

Both beat the hell out of some dumb YouTube video

[Clevfan4life]

PS I watched about 3 minutes of the Woodpecker show that was about all I could take.

 

WSS

 

I thought it was awesome. Those were absolute winners.

[Westside Steve]

And those on the right here have a habit of blaming everyone else but their party for a loss. My point is the socially conservative views of the tea party are holding them back

 

Both are equally legitimate

 

Both beat the hell out of some dumb YouTube video

The thing is Woody it's not my party. I wish it was my party and I wish it was successful but it doesn't necessarily serve my wishes. The Republicans come closer than the Democrats by a long shot but if they really need to outbid the left then there's no reason for me to vote.

 

You know that I don't give fuck number one about the social issues but shitty economic, education and foreign policy are much more important.

Our cities turning into third world hellholes are more important that crushing a bakery for not being politically correct.

The looming threat of severe Nationwide depression thanks to our exploding debt concerns me more than whether or not some broad can get a partial birth abortion because she doesn't like the hair color.

 

WSS

[Tour2ma]

"... you would cry, too, if Trump happened to you..."

 

 

[Bob806]

The thing is Woody it's not my party. I wish it was my party and I wish it was successful but it doesn't necessarily serve my wishes. The Republicans come closer than the Democrats by a long shot but if they really need to outbid the left then there's no reason for me to vote.

 

You know that I don't give fuck number one about the social issues but shitty economic, education and foreign policy are much more important.

Our cities turning into third world hellholes are more important that crushing a bakery for not being politically correct.

The looming threat of severe Nationwide depression thanks to our exploding debt concerns me more than whether or not some broad can get a partial birth abortion because she doesn't like the hair color.

 

WSS

Yay!!! Spot on.

 

And Woody is correct, the Tea Party destroyed the Rs.

[Westside Steve]

Yay!!! Spot on.

 

And Woody is correct, the Tea Party destroyed the Rs.

It's the unfortunate acceptance of the liberal media version of what the Tea Party is or isn't.

I'll post a link to their own platforms and can't imagine how anyone would be against any one of them.

The only one that might raise an eyebrow is Family Values which I think should be supported in America. Family Values like working hard self-respect taking care of your family being responsible. Not whose dick is getting sucked.

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

http://www.teaparty.org/about-us/

[bbedward]

The republicans would never win an election again if they didn't still push socially conservative values.

 

They never do jack shit about any of the issues - and have lost on every front, though Kasich has made it easier for people to just go to Michigan for their abortions.

 

But - a lot of their supporters are the die-hard Christian type, and more importantly - a lot of the big GOP donors are.

[bbedward]

That's also why it's pretty amazing Trump won the GOP primary with record numbers while barely addressing the "critical" issues like abortion and gay marriage. And the pro-gay stuff was even cheered at the convention.

[calfoxwc]

oh, come on, Bob. The Tea Party ? destroyed? have you ever been to a Tea Party rally?

 

I have, twice. Do you know what they stand for? Or you just picked up the liberal union hate

keyword because "everybody else" did?

 

the Tea Party stances - I don't see how any of them are bad stances. The people there there were

wonderful. Families, different races.

 

I know - we will never lose the emotional knee jerk to minimalize/denigrate the political opposition to

the dems. I just wish we could get there. Nice that liberals ignore the occupy wall street sissy thugs.

The democrat party no longer exists. It's been taken over by anti-Constitution, anti-American anarchists

and free stuff advocates.

 

Pitiful. Just pitiful. Nice of you to drop in again, Bob.

[Tour2ma]

"sissy thugs" is a real thing?

 

As far as "denigrating" the opposition... good thing there is no mirror at the pinnacle of the moral high ground.

 

 

As for the "tea-party"...

 

I saw it's birth. I saw Rick Santelli's rant live on CNBC... live from the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. I wonder how many even remember what the original, organizing issue was without looking it up.

 

Take a minute and think about it... it's important...

 

Got it?

 

Times up...

 

It was the idea of taking a sliver of the "bank bailout" and setting it aside to help those who were trapped "underwater" by bad mortgage deals often not of their own making. A fact that Rick ignored preferring to paint all in that circumstance with a convenient broad brush as deadbeats. In his fervor Rick called for a Chicago "Tea Party" to protest any such use of funds.

 

That single, simple cause was the rallying cry for a true, populist movement.

 

And then came members of "the GOP establishment" to not only embrace, but shape the movement... and profit from it if they could. Foremost among these was former House Majority Leader, Dick Armey, who was driven out of the House for among other things not delivering on promises to the Christian Right in the person of James Dobson.

 

Dick's Tea Party move came in the form of "Freedom Works". And every conservative issue ultimately found a home. Some were logical policy extensions, but many were ideological reaches designed to appeal to new members at the cost of issue focus. Ultimately Dick was forced out of Freedom Works by Matt Kibbe, a true believer... forced out with an $8mm payout.

 

Been a long time since I've heard Kibbe's name, let alone have seen him on TV. Also been a long time since I've heard anything of the local chapter.

[calfoxwc]

Nice that you went to wikipedia for your personally "known" information.

 

the truth is, there are so many people in the Tea Party mindset, that dont' know about

Santelli.

 

it was just the idea that our government is spending way too much, outrageous deficit spending,

and our gov is getting way, way, way too large and imposing on every aspect of our lives.

 

Like i said, I've been to rallies, and they are the nicest patriotic Americans you would ever meet.

 

None of them were Santelli, you just danced again.

[Bob806]

It's the unfortunate acceptance of the liberal media version of what the Tea Party is or isn't.

 

 

WSS

I think most of us who pay attention don't need a liberal media to tell us what the Tea Party is.

 

The link you posted, yes, it looks wonderful. But it isn't the whole story.if they stuck to this platform (the 15 points) we'd all be better off, I have no doubt.

 

Behind the scenes is an anti-union agenda, called Right To Work, that basically violates their point #13, about Intrusive Government. I think you and Cal would agree on that. it also correlates to point #4, where Special Interests must be eliminated, yet the RTW movement is founded by one of the largest special interest groups, called ALEC.

 

I've posted this before, so I'll post it again....Steve LaTourette (RIP) from Lake County bowed out of congress because of the Tea Party. He said that he wasn't leaving the Republican Party, but the Republican Party left him. That alone speaks volumes.

[Bob806]

 

 

I know - we will never lose the emotional knee jerk to minimalize/denigrate the political opposition to

the dems. I just wish we could get there. Nice that liberals ignore the occupy wall street sissy thugs.

The democrat party no longer exists. It's been taken over by anti-Constitution, anti-American anarchists

and free stuff advocates.

 

Pitiful. Just pitiful. Nice of you to drop in again, Bob.

The extreme left of the Democratic Party is just as bad, probably much worse than the extreme right of the Rs. I agree on that.

[BaconHound]

I'd expect nothing less. The birther movement was highly effective Typical when conspiracy nuts lose they grasp at any straw to prove they were robbed.

[calfoxwc]

Dems want free stuff, they will vote doofacratic no matter what. It's sending our

country into turmoil.

 

Bob brings up the Right to Work. True. True, that the Tea Party stands for it.

 

Why? for a lot of great reasons. Union folks like Bob hate it, because they have

less leverage to get their way.

 

But people are not allowed to work, if they don't WANT to join the precious union? bs.

 

If I can get a job, and I do NOT want to pay their dumb union dues that just helps the unions stand for

pro union candidates regardless of how good or bad they are... I'm getting the job and I

don't care if the union members don't get another profit out of me every paycheck.

 

Every salary permanent job I got, I got wage increases. No union. It was based on performance.

I worked hard, was very good at what I did. I've won awards, and very excellent letters from up

on high, and from depts I wrote software for.

 

could I have used a union to protect me from unfairness in a job? yep. wasn't one, though.

 

Should I have the FREEDOM to NOT JOIN Bob's union, if I DEEM IT NOT NECESSARY?

 

Hell, yeah. Often, not always, unions are sheep enforcers. All the members are sheep.

If they talk about voting for the ...wrong candidate (most of the time republican).. you

get intimidated..often, not always.

 

And democrat liberals do LOVE their sheep groups. That's why, btw, they HATE

school choice, home schooling etc. It lessens their ability to control all kids like sheep.

they don't get to social engineer/politically indoctrinate/influence kids who are not there.

 

If it's a great company, I really want the wages as they are, the management is great. what in the hell do

I want to pay out the nose for union dues? What the hell is a union doing?

 

The unions gave workers the power to be treated fairly, have a fair wage, benefits, and a decent life

for their families.

 

the unions, all too often, have become a scourge - you keep paying into it, it doesn't nothing when

everything is great, but the union has to figure out some way to fight for something to justify it's existence.

It's gotten out of hand. There's tons of evidence of it.

 

Like teachers unions. They are a good thing. But they are also a bad thing all too often. Any conservative

teacher is left out in the cold, because the union will represent itself to automatically supporting any candidate

that will pander to them. Very bad teachers can't be fired easily, just because the union is powerful.

 

Anybody who wants to read up on the Right to Work laws... and is honest about it...

 

https://www.teapartypatriots.org/yellowcard/right-to-work-law/

 

http://www.nrtw.org/b/rtw_faq.htm

 

The truth is, no bunch of union thugs should be allowed to stop me from getting a job if I don't

WANT to join their stupid union. If you do join the union, trust me, they will support a democrat

candidate you hate, and they won't give a crap, because you have no choice but to

keep forking over the dues or lose your job.

 

Hell with that. It's a freaking FREE COUNTRY, and I don't see why people should become

slaves to the all-powerful union masters.

 

And, the unions demand no righttowork laws, because they want that captive, enslaved members

as a whole unit so they can manipulate their votes as a group.

 

My Wife was a teacher, of course in the union, and one election, the union reps got in her face angrily

because she is conservative and wouldn't say she was voting for the democrat. This union rep got an earful

from plenty of her friends, because the union rep was going to get a visit from me at the school, and I would

raise hell over it. But, that was hammered away before I even heard about it...lol....

 

She ended up apologizing - and her friends told me they made it clear that we are both pretty conservative,

and she was walking in dangerous territory screwing around with her politic into people's faces.

 

That is what you can get with a union. Some unions wanted

 

That is why unions hate honesty. They hate secret ballots. Why? Because if they don't know how

you plan on voting, or did vote... they can't intimidate you into voting the way they want you to.

 

Unions get too powerful - they are no longer a protection for employees, they become what

employees need to be protected from.

 

Another thing - big, powerful unions... retirees don't pay union dues. Guess what? The unions keep

cutting retiree benefits to protect their DUES PAYING current employees. Remember that for the day

you retire, union people. That's a freaking fact - it has happened with some unions. Like the URW, for one.

 

https://www.unionfacts.com/downloads/report.cardCheck.pdf.

[calfoxwc]

Great company rep, great management, I don't want Bob and company FORCING

me to join their union so they can coerce me into giving them dues.

 

Let me decide what I want to join, and where I want to work, or else you are dictators.

When employees can lazily get through every day, do the minimal of what they have to do,

not give a damn...

 

because they have a union to protect them... it hurts the company, the company hires less people.

Some companies can't be profitable, so they close and go to another state. sometimes, they give up

and close.

 

Thanks for nothing, unneeded bad unions. But extorting money out of my paychecks in the form of

demanded union dues when I don't want to be a member...

 

no thanks. I'll support the Right to Work laws. I"LL decide if I want to join your union...or NOT.

[Westside Steve]

I wonder why union members would support tha party that wants to flood the country with illegals who provide cheap labor? Anybody?

WSS

[bbedward]

[Bob806]

Dems want free stuff, they will vote doofacratic no matter what. It's sending our

country into turmoil.

 

Bob brings up the Right to Work. True. True, that the Tea Party stands for it.

 

Why? for a lot of great reasons. Union folks like Bob hate it, because they have

less leverage to get their way.

 

Cal, the untold story is simply this: Unions tend to support Dems nearly exclusively. RTW would allow opting out of dues, which would impact potential PAC money into a Dem campaign. It's very shrewd by the Rs part, a catchy name (RTW), and they (R campaign) would seem to be bolstered by less opposition PAC money coming in.

 

The main reason guys like me hate it is even simpler- why should somebody reap benefits of a union if they are not contributing into their union? You opt out of a union, or choose not to join due to RTW, but you get the vacation, potential pay raise(s), representation (if you need it), for example, yet you think it's ok to freeload because of a political stance (or some other reason(s)?) That's not the American way.

 

But people are not allowed to work, if they don't WANT to join the precious union? bs.

 

If I can get a job, and I do NOT want to pay their dumb union dues that just helps the unions stand for

pro union candidates regardless of how good or bad they are... I'm getting the job and I

don't care if the union members don't get another profit out of me every paycheck.

 

Every salary permanent job I got, I got wage increases. No union. It was based on performance.

I worked hard, was very good at what I did. I've won awards, and very excellent letters from up

on high, and from depts I wrote software for.

 

could I have used a union to protect me from unfairness in a job? yep. wasn't one, though.

 

Should I have the FREEDOM to NOT JOIN Bob's union, if I DEEM IT NOT NECESSARY?

 

Hell, yeah. Often, not always, unions are sheep enforcers. All the members are sheep.

If they talk about voting for the ...wrong candidate (most of the time republican).. you

get intimidated..often, not always.

 

And democrat liberals do LOVE their sheep groups. That's why, btw, they HATE

school choice, home schooling etc. It lessens their ability to control all kids like sheep.

they don't get to social engineer/politically indoctrinate/influence kids who are not there.

 

If it's a great company, I really want the wages as they are, the management is great. what in the hell do

I want to pay out the nose for union dues? What the hell is a union doing?

I'd say that great company has a great relationship with it's employees, whether union or non-union. If it's union, and something arises that could but a strain on that great relationship, then at least union reps could speak to management about it in a labor/management meeting.

 

The unions gave workers the power to be treated fairly, have a fair wage, benefits, and a decent life

for their families.

And also tons of non-union folks as well.

 

the unions, all too often, have become a scourge - you keep paying into it, it doesn't nothing when

everything is great, but the union has to figure out some way to fight for something to justify it's existence.

It's gotten out of hand. There's tons of evidence of it.

 

Like teachers unions. They are a good thing. But they are also a bad thing all too often. Any conservative

teacher is left out in the cold, because the union will represent itself to automatically supporting any candidate

that will pander to them. Very bad teachers can't be fired easily, just because the union is powerful.

 

Anybody who wants to read up on the Right to Work laws... and is honest about it...

 

https://www.teapartypatriots.org/yellowcard/right-to-work-law/

 

http://www.nrtw.org/b/rtw_faq.htm

 

The truth is, no bunch of union thugs should be allowed to stop me from getting a job if I don't

WANT to join their stupid union. If you do join the union, trust me, they will support a democrat

candidate you hate, and they won't give a crap, because you have no choice but to

keep forking over the dues or lose your job.

So you or anybody as a dues-paying union member can voice your opposition to such candidates at union meetings. This happened back in the 90s, when the AFL-CIO endorsed Celebreeze, and many local unions opposed, and eventually backed Voinovich. It can happen....in fact it just recently happened, as the IAFF did not endorse Clinton or Trump.

 

Hell with that. It's a freaking FREE COUNTRY, and I don't see why people should become

slaves to the all-powerful union masters.

 

And, the unions demand no righttowork laws, because they want that captive, enslaved members

as a whole unit so they can manipulate their votes as a group.

Wow, pretty strong & pointed words there. So once again, look at the OTHER side here Cal....."enslaved" R supporters, for instance. It's ok for them to all band together and support a candidate or issue with a bunch of PAC money, yet it's not ok for a bunch of 'enslaved" D supporters to band together and support a candidate or issue with a bunch of PAC money?

 

Better yet, it's ok for the "enslaved" Rs to attempt to enact RTW, which would effectively weaken campaign contributions from their oppostion? And some call the Ds communists.

 

Look, I am by no means a hardcore D. I lean that way, mainly due to the aspect of collective bargaining that Ds support and Rs oppose.

 

My Wife was a teacher, of course in the union, and one election, the union reps got in her face angrily

because she is conservative and wouldn't say she was voting for the democrat. This union rep got an earful

from plenty of her friends, because the union rep was going to get a visit from me at the school, and I would

raise hell over it. But, that was hammered away before I even heard about it...lol....

 

She ended up apologizing - and her friends told me they made it clear that we are both pretty conservative,

and she was walking in dangerous territory screwing around with her politic into people's faces.

 

That is what you can get with a union. Some unions wanted

 

That is why unions hate honesty. They hate secret ballots. Why? Because if they don't know how

you plan on voting, or did vote... they can't intimidate you into voting the way they want you to.

 

Unions get too powerful - they are no longer a protection for employees, they become what

employees need to be protected from.

 

Another thing - big, powerful unions... retirees don't pay union dues. Guess what? The unions keep

cutting retiree benefits to protect their DUES PAYING current employees. Remember that for the day

you retire, union people. That's a freaking fact - it has happened with some unions. Like the URW, for one.

 

https://www.unionfacts.com/downloads/report.cardCheck.pdf.

[calfoxwc]

Wow, pretty strong & pointed words there. So once again, look at the OTHER side here Cal....."enslaved" R supporters, for instance. It's ok for them to all band together and support a candidate or issue with a bunch of PAC money, yet it's not ok for a bunch of 'enslaved" D supporters to band together and support a candidate or issue with a bunch of PAC money? Bob

*****************************************************************************************************

You miss the point, Bob. BTW, I have always been a union backer. But plenty of union guys will tell you -

the union got too big for it's britches.

 

The point is, you have no CHOICE but to give money to the union if you want a job, keep your job.

 

It isn't about banding together... republicans do not HAVE TO PAY DUES TO THE republican party. Your response

completely misses the point. I said enslaved, because union members have no choice but to pay dues, and be

part of the union.

 

And yes, unions oppose secret ballots, for the sole reason that they can't peer pressure/intimidate

union members' votes.

 

Union members can stand up and voice theier opposition? Sure. Unless a certain union is like a bunch of thugs in an

alley, and you have every right to voice your opposition to getting mugged, and get your ass kicked, your tires flattened...

 

but hey, you have the "right" to speak out.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/287759/bad-arguments-against-right-work-james-sherk

 

Read it, Bob. The "why should non members benefit from union negotiations"...

 

it's baloney, Bob. Federal law does not require a union to represent anybody but

union members. as the article explains, they voluntarily do, sometimes, but it is not

required. If the company voluntarily gives the same benefits/pay to a non union member,

then it's voluntary.

 

FORCING union membership is asswholeish. But if I am a member of a union,

and they do stuff up on high I can't stand and won't be a party too, it isn't that I

have a right to "talk", but no right to act...

 

I demand the right to leave the union if I am seriously opposed to a union stance.

The union can do any damn thing the union wants, and union members can go fly

a kite.

 

And you need to know- all too often, you retire, the union forgets you because

you no longer pay union dues. And the first negotiated give up by the union....

is the retirees - ALL TOO OFTEN. Obvsiosly not always.

 

Bob, "enslaved" means you are owned, have no choice but to be owned and pay dues.

 

The comeback about pacs is silly. I don't have to do any dues to a pac.

 

Finally, my bitch about unions is this -

 

you admit they basically give dems the thumbs up regardless of whether or not they

are supporting what's best for our country. You are a republican? You have no choice.

You HAVE to be a member, you HAVE to pay dues, etc.

 

Meanwhile, you HAVE to let your dues go to support abortion, etc etc etc. You have no choice.

You dues HAVE to only support democrat politics, You have NO CHOICE.

 

And all those dues, you admit, go to the dems. well, dems are PRO CHOICE - the right

to have unlimited abortions, even if you are a Christian and do not.

 

You're owned, Bob. If you had a right to work law, you would have the right to morally

object, and resign from the union. Right now, you have to resign your employment and

clear out. Unions know this.

 

In the least, paying DUES should be optional. Membership should be optional.

Employees should have a choice.