Ford to move all small-car production from US to Mexico

[bbedward]

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-move-all-small-car-production-mexico-u-s-announces-n648226

 

 

Relevant from a different story in March:

 

Ford CEO Mark Fields rejected Donald Trump’s charges that the automobile manufacturer is neglecting America for foreign markets such as Mexico. “Well, the last I looked, Ford Motor Company is here to stay in the United States,” Mark Fields said during an interview in New York City with CNBC.

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Ford = Fix Or Repair Daily.

[Opal312]

A$$holes

[OldBrownsFan]

I'm a little surprised the media hasn't covered this story more as it is a big deal. This is the first I heard of it. Ford is moving it's entire small car operations to Mexico. How does this help American workers? It wouldn't surprise me if it is being downplayed in the MSM because it is an issue that helps Trump.

[gftChris]

But it's just the free market right, we shouldn't interfere?

[Pumpkin Eater]

Wtf

[LogicIsForSquares]

But it's just the free market right, we shouldn't interfere?

This. Either you want a free market or you want protectionist policies that drive up cost to the consumers. If Americans wanted to pay the price it costs to manufacture goods and still make a profit in the U.S. then the jobs would come back.

[OldBrownsFan]

There are other options such as better trade agreements like re-negotiating NAFTA. Lower corporate taxes to keep mfg businesses from leaving the country. Less government regulations here. Bottom line for me to keep mfg I would rather pay a little more at Walmart. What happens when we lose high paying mfg jobs and what has been happening is these jobs are replaced by lower paying service jobs. Since NAFTA was passed we have lost huge amounts of mfg exactly like was predicted by some like Ross Perot.

[gftChris]

With the continued globalisation (which is inevitable, no way to arrest that, so stop crying about it), the only way to keep manufacturing jobs in 'a place' is to make sure that the cost of the things being manufactured isn't lower if they're manufactured elsewhere. There's several ways to do that, though - heavy import duty; raise manufacturing costs elsewhere; cut manufacturing costs at home. A combination could be used, obviously.

[bbedward]

Fuck globalism. It's a lie.

 

The global economy brings the weakest up and brings the strongest down. It's as strong as the weakest link.

[OldBrownsFan]

 

About the only thing Perot missed was the giant sucking sound wasn't instantaneous ...it took a few years and like a snowball rolling down hill more and more mfg left this country for cheap labor, less taxes, regulations, environmental standards...Free trade does not mean having unfair trade practices where American workers cannot compete because of our own government.

[gftChris]

What's a lie? That it's easier than ever to move goods from place a to place b? That people can more easily than ever move from place c to place d?

[DieHardBrownsFan]

There are other options such as better trade agreements like re-negotiating NAFTA. Lower corporate taxes to keep mfg businesses from leaving the country. Less government regulations here. Bottom line for me to keep mfg I would rather pay a little more at Walmart. What happens when we lose high paying mfg jobs and what has been happening is these jobs are replaced by lower paying service jobs. Since NAFTA was passed we have lost huge amounts of mfg exactly like was predicted by some like Ross Perot.

We are already becoming a country of service jobs, and tech jobs. Huge pay gaps between the two obviously. Big Serious Trouble.

[Westside Steve]

But it's just the free market right, we shouldn't interfere?

We?

In a way you are correct but this election will have elements of protectionism.

I think it's a valid question whether or not the United States remains and Manufacturing superpower or turn grunt labor over to the third world where they aren't settled by huge wages but more importantly stringent regulation.

 

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Example: the moving of vacuum cleaner manufacturing to Mexico from North Canton and the Hoover plant has been a definite blow to that part of the state.

WSS

[jbluhm86]

Well, Trump better not build his border wall too high, then; it'll need to be low enough for those illegal American autoworkers to scale it in order to go steal those manufacturing jobs in Meh-he-co.

[calfoxwc]

you can't have a free market competition internationally. Too many countries

cheat the system - forced labor in factories for little or no wages, like china, etc.

 

Extremely low wages regardless - standard of living lower than most any Americans,

China has had several scandals about putting toxic waste products into paint, etc, even on

children's toys and furniture, as filler.

 

globalism is a farce, a dangerous farce.

[Pumpkin Eater]

40 years of globalism has only lowered the wealth and standard of living in the US. 1970 was the year that wages were highest compared to cost of living. It's only gone downhill since then.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

[jrb12711]

my dad's cousin has been with ford a long time and may get laid off because of this. You know what he does on a daily basis? Wheel inspection. You know what wheel inspection is? Making sure there are four wheels on the car and that the lugnuts are put in correctly. It's not checking alignment, that's a different guy. That's not checking tire pressure and good tread, that's another guy.

 

You know much this dude makes? $84,000, plus a guaranteed pension, plus top of the line benefits, plus a mandatory time off policy.

 

I can go on a rant about this forever and ever, but the unions are the reason for so much stuff. I don't mind him having that job, I don't mind pensions or having good benefits. But the simple fact of the matter is the company can't afford it. It's either pay these guys all this money and be in the red, or shift production and turn a profit. If the union would just fucking go to its people, say we have to get your cost down or your out of a job, the problem could correct itself. Instead, they almost always get into a pissing contest where the very people they represent lose.

 

In that scenario above, what would you do as CEO? The problem is, my dad's cousins stuff is set in stone. It's either pay him this ridiculous amount of money for a job a robot can do for pennies or lay him off?

[tiamat63]

40 years of globalism has only lowered the wealth and standard of living in the US. 1970 was the year that wages were highest compared to cost of living. It's only gone downhill since then.

 

Something I was talking about with a friend today on the Virginia state passing of raising the minimum amount for salary employees + OT pay.

 

There are two facts that cannot be refuted. Americans ARE hard workers, especially when compared to our peers in other developed nations, work more hours than most if not all with the smallest vacation time.

Wages have remained stagnant whilst output has increased and the middle class has eroded. Obviously you can say correlation doesn't equal causation but lets be honest, we may not agree on much here but the average

American man/woman used to live a little bit higher on the hog and there are clearly several reasons for that. I believe every man here has grown up with a steady and strong work ethic. Hell, even that crazy ass Cal still tends

the garden on a bum knee. That is to be admired.

 

Shame on Ford for this and only their bottom dollar, NAFTA has been a thorn in the side of the middle class since it's inception. DH is right, this is becoming a nation of service and tech jobs with little ground in the middle.

 

 

 

 

my dad's cousin has been with ford a long time and may get laid off because of this. You know what he does on a daily basis? Wheel inspection. You know what wheel inspection is? Making sure there are four wheels on the car and that the lugnuts are put in correctly. It's not checking alignment, that's a different guy. That's not checking tire pressure and good tread, that's another guy.

 

 

 

I had a whole thing typed out then it vanished. Sum bitch. I'm not typing it all again so I'll summerize.

 

-It's not just a union issue, I've seen it elsewhere.

-Work title/responsibility needs to be adjusted not only there, but other companies as well.

-I'm in full support of paying your employees a good wage. There are so many benefits to it including better health, productivity, longevity in employment, reduced costs for turnover, etc etc.

-However there are many companies that add additional responsibility to their employees WITHOUT additional pay, that's wrong. This guy makes more than enough to take on something extra.

-I don't like Walmart but on a rare visit there I noticed how inefficient their processes are. They could cut jobs, bring people to full time work with better pay and benefits, that would likely see an increase in productivity.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

my dad's cousin has been with ford a long time and may get laid off because of this. You know what he does on a daily basis? Wheel inspection. You know what wheel inspection is? Making sure there are four wheels on the car and that the lugnuts are put in correctly. It's not checking alignment, that's a different guy. That's not checking tire pressure and good tread, that's another guy.

 

You know much this dude makes? $84,000, plus a guaranteed pension, plus top of the line benefits, plus a mandatory time off policy.

 

I can go on a rant about this forever and ever, but the unions are the reason for so much stuff. I don't mind him having that job, I don't mind pensions or having good benefits. But the simple fact of the matter is the company can't afford it. It's either pay these guys all this money and be in the red, or shift production and turn a profit. If the union would just fucking go to its people, say we have to get your cost down or your out of a job, the problem could correct itself. Instead, they almost always get into a pissing contest where the very people they represent lose.

 

In that scenario above, what would you do as CEO? The problem is, my dad's cousins stuff is set in stone. It's either pay him this ridiculous amount of money for a job a robot can do for pennies or lay him off?

 

Agreed. Unions are to blame for most the the companies moving overseas. They had an article about a floor sweeper at t he Ford Plant in Brookpark who made over $100,000 in a year (with overtime of course).

[gftChris]

"There are two facts that cannot be refuted. Americans ARE hard workers, especially when compared to our peers in other developed nations, work more hours than most if not all with the smallest vacation time. "

 

This is basically true - at least as far as time off goes. No guaranteed sick pay, no guaranteed time off, no guaranteed parental leave, so when people get sick, they basically have to come in to work, and if they don't, for those lucky enough to have sick pay, they're seen as weak, replaceable. Work-life balance just isn't a thing in the US, for better or for worse.

 

I'm not knocking being hard working, far from it, but there are laws to protect workers from that race to the top/bottom around these parts. People get forced to take their vacation days in investment banks for example, because a refreshed hard working employee for 47 weeks is better than a burn out or suicide case.

[tiamat63]

"There are two facts that cannot be refuted. Americans ARE hard workers, especially when compared to our peers in other developed nations, work more hours than most if not all with the smallest vacation time. "

 

This is basically true - at least as far as time off goes. No guaranteed sick pay, no guaranteed time off, no guaranteed parental leave, so when people get sick, they basically have to come in to work, and if they don't, for those lucky enough to have sick pay, they're seen as weak, replaceable. Work-life balance just isn't a thing in the US, for better or for worse.

 

I'm not knocking being hard working, far from it, but there are laws to protect workers from that race to the top/bottom around these parts. People get forced to take their vacation days in investment banks for example, because a refreshed hard working employee for 47 weeks is better than a burn out or suicide case.

 

 

I can give testimony to being in my current job at 20 months now and feeling burned out. I work in a union shop that does NOT offer sick days (I've never fucking heard of that, but they'll make you bring in a doctors note like its fucking high school again) I've been putting in 50 hour weeks since the backhalf of April including 3/5ths of my Saturdays and any attempt at getting vacation approved has been shot down.

 

I like money, I used to think it was cool and badass to claim that I worked 50+ hours a week. Now? Fuck all that. I've noticed my stress levels have gone up, I haven't been able to accomplish things in my personal life I had set aside, I've missed out on multiple family events just this summer alone that I won't get the chance to partake in later. It's just not worth it. Even better, my company has said we've been hemorrhaging money lately. Gee, you have a green work force, inefficient product cycles, extended work hours, incredible heat and humidity for those that work on the floor... it's a perfect storm of nonsense and their solution is to try to throw more overtime at it.

[gftChris]

For me, I typically work around 40 hours a week, but if there's a project delivery coming up that can creep up towards 60 hours, but only for one week usually, every few months.

 

Compare the other end of the scale, in France it is against the law to work more than 35 hours (not including lunch break). Yes, you read that right, against the law. Spain is the same. So my clients there would work the same hours as us Monday to Thursday, then at 1pm on Friday they've all gone home.

[OldBrownsFan]

NAFTA’s Impact on U.S. Workers

 

By establishing the principle that U.S. corporations could relocate production elsewhere and sell back into the United States, NAFTA undercut the bargaining power of American workers, which had driven the expansion of the middle class since the end of World War II. The result has been 20 years of stagnant wages and the upward redistribution of income, wealth and political power.

NAFTA affected U.S. workers in four principal ways.

 

 

First, it caused the loss of some 700,000 jobs as production moved to Mexico. Most of these losses came in California, Texas, Michigan, and other states where manufacturing is concentrated. To be sure, there were some job gains along the border in service and retail sectors resulting from increased trucking activity, but these gains are small in relation to the loses, and are in lower paying occupations. The vast majority of workers who lost jobs from NAFTA suffered a permanent loss of income.

 

Second, NAFTA strengthened the ability of U.S. employers to force workers to accept lower wages and benefits. As soon as NAFTA became law, corporate managers began telling their workers that their companies intended to move to Mexico unless the workers lowered the cost of their labor. In the midst of collective bargaining negotiations with unions, some companies would even start loading machinery into trucks that they said were bound for Mexico. The same threats were used to fight union organizing efforts. The message was: “If you vote in a union, we will move south of the border.” With NAFTA, corporations also could more easily blackmail local governments into giving them tax reductions and other subsidies.

 

Third, the destructive effect of NAFTA on the Mexican agricultural and small business sectors dislocated several million Mexican workers and their families, and was a major cause in the dramatic increase in undocumented workers flowing into the U.S. labor market. This put further downward pressure on U.S. wages, especially in the already lower paying market for less skilled labor.

 

Fourth, and ultimately most important, NAFTA was the template for rules of the emerging global economy, in which the benefits would flow to capital and the costs to labor. The U.S. governing class—in alliance with the financial elites of its trading partners—applied NAFTA’s principles to the World Trade Organization, to the policies of the World Bank and IMF, and to the deal under which employers of China’s huge supply of low-wage workers were allowed access to U.S. markets in exchange for allowing American multinational corporations the right to invest there.

 

http://www.epi.org/blog/naftas-impact-workers/

 

[bbedward]

I have it good. ~37 hour work week, vacation time, sick time, holiday days off, flexibility (I have to take my dog to the vet tomorrow for example, no problem for me to leave early to get him there), cheap health care, paternity/maternity leave, if I adopted a child my company would give me leave and pay all the adoption fees, free wellness programs (gym stuff, weight watchers, quit smoking stuff), good 401k match, pensions (which are unheard of nowadays).

 

And our company is doing great, stock price has gone up $230/share since 2008 - many of the modern retirees are cashing out big time.

 

I think keeping employees happy is much more effective than working them to death.

[tiamat63]

I have it good. ~37 hour work week, vacation time, sick time, holiday days off, flexibility (I have to take my dog to the vet tomorrow for example, no problem for me to leave early to get him there), cheap health care, paternity/maternity leave, if I adopted a child my company would give me leave and pay all the adoption fees, free wellness programs (gym stuff, weight watchers, quit smoking stuff), good 401k match, pensions (which are unheard of nowadays).

 

And our company is doing great, stock price has gone up $230/share since 2008 - many of the modern retirees are cashing out big time.

 

I think keeping employees happy is much more effective than working them to death.

 

I do get holidays off including a few extra days for ThanksGiving and Christmas. But it's kind of sad to see that as some kind of treat. Those are federal holidays that your employees should have off.

 

Emerging companies and those with sustained success are showing time and time again that having happy employees is the key to that growth. I keep in contact with friends from where I used to work, the conditions have become a bit...poor. Christmas bonsues (which they weren't much to begin with) are gone. The company tried to expand their footprint into something they aren't and its cost them. Now they take even the shittiest of orders from customers at the expense of efficient production and delivery from their employees. Wages have been frozen and in some cases fallen because of it. Yet they're putting in more overtime and effort than I can ever remember doing at that job.

 

As a result they've had a shit ton of turnover. In my 4 years at that place I had NEVER seen but a couple people come or go within a year. Now? They hosted a fucking job faire for god sake.

 

The leadership just doesn't get it. They're out of touch. It's the end result of having management and leadership that were never ground floor employees.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

It's funny listening to civilians talk about overtime pay, holiday pay, etc. On a ship you live, eat, work 24/7. You don't get any extra pay no matter how many hours you work. No matter how long you are out a sea, sometimes for a few months at a time, working 18 hours a day, 7 days a week.

[calfoxwc]

Hell, even that crazy ass Cal still tends

the garden on a bum knee. That is to be admired. Tiam

****************************************

I don't have a bum knee anymore. I got a new complete knee back in late dec,

but thanks for the compliment.

WIfe and I went to an auction yesterdau, and i split a big pile of wood latre...went grocery shopping this mrning,

we came home n mowed lawn... she runs the ridinf mower and i run the push mower, i mowd the

side downhill edge of the side vyard and near the edge i started feelimg sharp stings on my left hand n saw five yellpw

jackets repeatedly stinging me through my tan/red and orange work glove n syarted running had one sting me on my back,

ripped off my longsleeced bshirt in the backyard and several were on it. one whapped imto my neck but bouced off without stinging me.

one buzzed past my face, and one whapped into my hair but i flicked it back out. have 7 places on

my hand with multiple stings yn each...

dammit. Thank goodness she didn't mow near yhere. She got me somw benydril and two aspirin, put baking soda

and water creme on my hand. Hand swelled up, barely got wedding ring off. still cant make a fist, but still went out

an hr later and unwound garden string from the riding mower blades for her. goin yo be tough to split wood in the morning lol

aspirin kickedin.... goin back to bed. still hurts though. lolhunting npecking with one hand is stupid