The Truth about our 2nd Amendment

[calfoxwc]

Every once in a while, we get a liberal gun control dingbat that shows up and

whines that the 2nd Amendment only applies to our military, etc etc bs etc.

 

This is a youtube video based on a 2nd Amendment powerpoint presentation that

will probably have to be posted the next time somebody tries it.

 

it's excellent.

 

[LogicIsForSquares]

I do wonder what the "well they only meant muskets and cannons" crowd would do if citizens did shoot intruders with a .62 cal Kentucky long rifle or fired on them with a cannon loaded with grape shot. Hell, maybe follow it up with a bayonet charge. They will wish that poor Jimmy the burglar had just been shot by your run of the mill modern pistol.

[BrownsKidd]

If I may play devil's advocate for second. First a disclaimer. I too think that responsible people should be able to own guns. Period.

However, if our Government, wanted to go all dictator on the U.S. population, we would have very little chance of victory. A small fight would ensue, but there is no way that a AR-15, 9mm, or shotgun is going to hold off a well equipped and armed U.S. military that happens to have weapons that would annihilate any resistance. Unless any of you have access to drones, laser guided rockets, military grade tactical gear, communications, etc., really, gun ownership now, is not about protecting us from the government, it's about personal protection.

 

I work with some avid gun owners that have a nice stock pile of guns and ammo, gear, etc., But do agree, that if our military was turned against us. Very little could be done. A civil war within military would be our only chance of winning any type of Military coup against the population.

 

But please, tell me I'm wrong.

[MLD Woody]

They'll try

[bbedward]

You'd have to assume that the military would decide to go after civilians.

 

Maybe once we get a robot military it'll be off the table.

 

I don't think pro-2a people really care about keeping guns for civil war though but more for sport, hunting, and self+home defense.

[LogicIsForSquares]

If I may play devil's advocate for second. First a disclaimer. I too think that responsible people should be able to own guns. Period.

 

However, if our Government, wanted to go all dictator on the U.S. population, we would have very little chance of victory. A small fight would ensue, but there is no way that a AR-15, 9mm, or shotgun is going to hold off a well equipped and armed U.S. military that happens to have weapons that would annihilate any resistance. Unless any of you have access to drones, laser guided rockets, military grade tactical gear, communications, etc., really, gun ownership now, is not about protecting us from the government, it's about personal protection.

 

I work with some avid gun owners that have a nice stock pile of guns and ammo, gear, etc., But do agree, that if our military was turned against us. Very little could be done. A civil war within military would be our only chance of winning any type of Military coup against the population.

 

But please, tell me I'm wrong.

History disagrees with that assertion. It gets bloody but controlling a committed population, even being outgunned, can outlast a dictatorship.

[calfoxwc]

it isn't the whole military vs one town. It would be a couple hundred million, probably more,

vs armed squadrons scattered across the entire country.

 

Counties: As of 2013, the United States has 3,007 counties and 137 county equivalents for a total of 3,144 counties and county equivalents.

Source: http://www.census.gov/popest/dat...

Cities and towns:
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, there are 19,354 "incorporated places" in the United States.

 

Each county can have many, many cities. What military that would turn on the American people....

would be stretched into small groups trying to control a town/city.

[The Cysko Kid]

If I may play devil's advocate for second. First a disclaimer. I too think that responsible people should be able to own guns. Period.

 

However, if our Government, wanted to go all dictator on the U.S. population, we would have very little chance of victory. A small fight would ensue, but there is no way that a AR-15, 9mm, or shotgun is going to hold off a well equipped and armed U.S. military that happens to have weapons that would annihilate any resistance. Unless any of you have access to drones, laser guided rockets, military grade tactical gear, communications, etc., really, gun ownership now, is not about protecting us from the government, it's about personal protection.

 

I work with some avid gun owners that have a nice stock pile of guns and ammo, gear, etc., But do agree, that if our military was turned against us. Very little could be done. A civil war within military would be our only chance of winning any type of Military coup against the population.

 

But please, tell me I'm wrong.

Horseshit. I always hear this arguement but the viet cong, the Mujahideen and the Iraqi insurgents have all proven that guerilla warfare is effective. All successfully survived the might of the u.s. military being brought to bear on them.

[The Cysko Kid]

Tanks and guided missles are highly effective at destroying infrastructure. Less so at destroying mobile guerrillas.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Horseshit. I always hear this arguement but the viet cong, the Mujahideen and the Iraqi insurgents have all proven that guerilla warfare is effective. All successfully survived the might of the u.s. military being brought to bear on them.

You're a fool. Vietnam was lost because of politicians, not the military. We could have easily defeated them. Same in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's all political cupcake. Also, I highly doubt the military would even draw arms against civilians, unless provoked.

[The Cysko Kid]

Don't worry about the fact that if it came to that multiple countries would be funneling rpgs and other military hardware to the insurgents. There's other countries that would have a great interest in fueling an American Civil war.

[The Cysko Kid]

You're a fool. Vietnam was lost because of politicians, not the military. We could have easily defeated them. Same in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's all political cupcake. Also, I highly doubt the military would even draw arms against civilians, unless provoked.

Even the American Civil War in which the union hat significant advantagesin all respects was an utter bloodbath. Lest we forget the mighty u.s. military had to show a tiny island nation the probability of nuclear annihilation to end world war 2.

[The Cysko Kid]

Not to mention your insinuation that there will be no politicking involved in the us military attempting to destroy fellow Americans

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Even the American Civil War in which the union hat significant advantagesin all respects was an utter bloodbath. Lest we forget the mighty u.s. military had to show a tiny island nation the probability of nuclear annihilation to end world war 2.

A 'tiny' island nation that had defeated China and was making ground on Russia, defeated England in Singapore, the Phillippines, etc. Get your facts straight Air Farce.

[The Cysko Kid]

A tiny island nation that doesnt have 300 million citizens. Are you high or just stupid as hell? My guess is stupid as hell.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

A tiny island nation that doesnt have 300 million citizens. Are you high or just stupid as hell? My guess is stupid as hell.

Man, are you for real? I think you're mentally ill.

[The Cysko Kid]

You are seriously not worth fighting with. You're a constantly hostile idiot that I don't even believe served 2/3 of the time.

[Westside Steve]

If I may play devil's advocate for second. First a disclaimer. I too think that responsible people should be able to own guns. Period.

 

However, if our Government, wanted to go all dictator on the U.S. population, we would have very little chance of victory. A small fight would ensue, but there is no way that a AR-15, 9mm, or shotgun is going to hold off a well equipped and armed U.S. military that happens to have weapons that would annihilate any resistance. Unless any of you have access to drones, laser guided rockets, military grade tactical gear, communications, etc., really, gun ownership now, is not about protecting us from the government, it's about personal protection.

 

I work with some avid gun owners that have a nice stock pile of guns and ammo, gear, etc., But do agree, that if our military was turned against us. Very little could be done. A civil war within military would be our only chance of winning any type of Military coup against the population.

 

But please, tell me I'm wrong.

I believe that armed rebellions and revolutions Etc are pretty much relegated to third world shitholes. Hear the United States even our most poverty-stricken citizens would be considered Kings in Somalia or Bangladesh. Nobody is going to take up arms unless they have no other choice. Probably a lot more chance of terrorism by certain minorities; beyond your garden variety rioting.

And that can't really be countered by an armed population. That's still not the point of the Second Amendment whether you think it's still valid or not.

 

It won't be citizens versus the army it will be guerrilla warfare if anything close ever happens and that won't be until the United States collapses.

 

WSS

[BrownsKidd]

Some pretty strong responses to a very hypothetical and devil's advocate type of question.
I think there are some lofty expectations by armed civilians (some of which would be former military) against a very armed military force, which has weapons beyond any civilian attainability. I know we can look at history as some examples, but technology since WWII has progressed to the point making some of that history irrelevant to predict future outcomes.

The scenario, agreed, is highly unlikely however. Now, which gun should I get? Revolver or Mag, 9mm or .380 for a first time handgun?

[mjp28]

Tanks and guided missles are highly effective at destroying infrastructure. Less so at destroying mobile guerrillas.

Basically what I was going to say once the tanks roll out or the fighters quit bombing you then have a street to street, city to city, state to state gurrellia war like Syria except the USA is 3,000 miles sea to sea.

 

I'm more worried about my arms and ammo supply to protect my home, street, neighborhood there aren't enough military troops in the American Army to go everywhere. .....you're looking at sci-fi scenes out of Terminator 2 for something like that.

 

And of course my guns for normal house and self defense against general low life a-holes.

 

SUPPORT THE NRA, the only real group left to keep draconian gun laws from taking hold at exactly the wrong time in history.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

You are seriously not worth fighting with. You're a constantly hostile idiot that I don't even believe served 2/3 of the time.

You're mentally ill. You hide in some hick town because you're afraid of the black man going to get you and your family. You try and act tough in here, but you're a coward. Some of the shit you come up with is borderline crazy.

[The Cysko Kid]

Brother you're the blackest of pots trying to point out the flaws of the kettle. I live in a hick town because I like it. Sandusky is only 15 miles away. And, I might add, my neighbor employs black farmhands so your weak ass argument is out of the water right off the rip. As for crazy...do you even read the shit you post? Like ever? Do you ever once review the bullshit that spews forth from your diseased mind? Just kidding. I know you do not.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Brother you're the blackest of pots trying to point out the flaws of the kettle. I live in a hick town because I like it. Sandusky is only 15 miles away. And, I might add, my neighbor employs black farmhands so your weak ass argument is out of the water right off the rip. As for crazy...do you even read the shit you post? Like ever? Do you ever once review the bullshit that spews forth from your diseased mind? Just kidding. I know you do not.

LMAO. Thanks for proving my point nutbag.

[The Cysko Kid]

If your point is that you're an idiot you prove it without assistance every time you post.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

If your point is that you're an idiot you prove it without assistance every time you post.

Sure thing crazy.

[The Cysko Kid]

http://www.stolenvalor.com/

 

You on here somewhere? I wouldn't be surprised.

[mjp28]

Semi-auto has long been the most popular the only real occasional jam at the wrong time but thank goodness it's very rare with quality firearms and good ammo.

 

I've always been an old revolver guy although I have both, revolvers you pull the trigger and it fires.

 

Best bet is always go to a range with friends or a club and try them out.

[calfoxwc]

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/10/best-subcompact-concealed-carry-pistols-9mm/?utm_source=Ammoland+Subscribers&utm_campaign=d5c2485749-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-d5c2485749-20770865#axzz4MLzy6qRk

 

if you're new to guns, a revolver never would jam, and it's far easier to clean and maintain.

 

I wonder if a revolver has less of a recoil because it's heavier. hmm. Don't know.

[calfoxwc]

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/10/the-perfect-storm-three-gun-grabbers-come-clean/?utm_source=Ammoland+Subscribers&utm_campaign=05702955ea-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-05702955ea-20770865#axzz4MLzy6qRk

[mjp28]

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/10/best-subcompact-concealed-carry-pistols-9mm/?utm_source=Ammoland+Subscribers&utm_campaign=d5c2485749-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-d5c2485749-20770865#axzz4MLzy6qRk

 

if you're new to guns, a revolver never would jam, and it's far easier to clean and maintain.

 

I wonder if a revolver has less of a recoil because it's heavier. hmm. Don't know.

It's pretty much an even tradeoff between the size of the load and size of the handgun regardless of style. "Generally" the older style bigger revolvers have more mass and aren't as good for CCW as the more slender, lighter semiautomatic pistols.

 

You have to also consider the caliber and load of your ammunition on either and make the determination what is better for you.

 

It doesn't make any sense for example to have a .45 if you can't get it on target quickly and consistantly in a self defense application. It's not a good idea either to have a .22 and find out you can get it on target but it doesn't have enough knock down power.

 

So you have to find your happy medium which might take a little information from gun dealers, friends and best yet some range time to get better. Amazingly some smaller women can handle larger loads with some practice, others just need to scale down.

 

I have an old cop gun, a .38 special revolver in my desk with a 158 gr. load with hollow points or wad cutters for one gun I just like, six deadly shots work Oh I also BUGs handy too.

 

.45, 9mm, .38 special or +P, .380 auto all nice for revolver or semiautomatic use. Now I gave my wife my old western style. 22 MAG with hollow points to keep upstairs (she's a non shooter, I've shot since I was 11 years old!).

 

So there is no real one answer, so little time so many guns to try