I HATE RAY HORTON

[hoorta]

When I was blasting the hiring of Romeo the homeo, and Phil Sewage, calling them coffee fetchers, Hoorta and Flugels assured me that the truth be told Ozzie owed his success to Sewage, and Belichik owed his success to Crennell.

 

Of course those two bags of shit are nothings, and their bosses are still leaders.

 

What is it with you fuck holes that you believe assistant coaches are anything more than fucking secretaries/coffee fetchers/scapegoats?

 

Horton may suck Tom- but he has around zero talent to work with. The Browns have maybe 4-5 guys on our defense that even belong on an NFL roster. We picked up Nassib and Ogbah this year. So at the rate of 2 good defensive players a year, that the Harvard brainless trust are getting us- It should only take around 3-4 more years to have the possibility of having a good defense.

 

I'm with you on this one- you get special team players in the 4th-round and lower- not starters (unless you get damn lucky.) Sushi and DePo Repo probably only have one more season to show how brilliant they are. Right now, the only excitement left is seeing if we can luck into a win. I put the over\under at 2- 1\2 wins before the season. I'd say your Vegas bet is looking like a lead pipe lock.

[CaineDeSoulis]

 

Horton may suck Tom- but he has around zero talent to work with. The Browns have maybe 4-5 guys on our defense that even belong on an NFL roster. We picked up Nassib and Ogbah this year. So at the rate of 2 good defensive players a year, that the Harvard brainless trust are getting us- It should only take around 3-4 more years to have the possibility of having a good defense.

 

I'm with you on this one- you get special team players in the 4th-round and lower- not starters (unless you get damn lucky.) Sushi and DePo Repo probably only have one more season to show how brilliant they are. Right now, the only excitement left is seeing if we can luck into a win. I put the over\under at 2- 1\2 wins before the season. I'd say your Vegas bet is looking like a lead pipe lock.

Arizona Cardinals in 2011-12 no Talent

Cleveland Browns in 2013 we have no talent!

Tennessee Titans 2014-2015 No talent here!

Cleveland Browns 2016 No talent to be found!

 

Thats the problem with horton he just keeps getting on to teams with no talent real shame that...

 

[syd]

depressing

[CaineDeSoulis]

poor poor horton

[TexasAg1969]

Watching the Cards and Seahawks get to 3-3 OT game because of defenses makes me sick when I think of today's game against Cincy.

[D Bone]

Watching the Cards and Seahawks get to 3-3 OT game because of defenses makes me sick when I think of today's game against Cincy.

 

These Ds are nasty....... Just like we used to be way back in the day.

[CaineDeSoulis]

Interesting that the cardinals are only 4 years removed from horton...

[Browns149]

These Ds are nasty....... Just like we used to be way back in the day.

 

we were never as good as them

[miktoxic]

Man, it's not horton or hue. It's the lame draft that came from believing in analytics. I agree with hoorta that the new FO has another draft in them to prove they are worthy. If not i think the whole lot goes in another flush of a regime.

[miktoxic]

These Ds are nasty....... Just like we used to be way back in the day.

Ds are nasty and the kickers friggin blow. Don't be surprised if AZ releases theirs tomorrow.

 

And i was bitching about releasing our kicker weeks ago. Our kicker is head and shoulders above what's going on in AZ.

[hoorta]

Watching the Cards and Seahawks get to 3-3 OT game because of defenses makes me sick when I think of today's game against Cincy.

 

Wow, 6-6 tie in OT. Guess I should have watched. Time to drag out the history books for the last time (if ever) a 5 quarter OT game ever went without a TD being scored.

[CaineDeSoulis]

You mean that shitty draft and FO that have 8.5 of our 12 sacks, 3 of our 6 ints and the qb that has the most yards and TD and the best qb rating for a browns rook posted? Coaching apparently is never to be held accountable on this board. 0-11 so far 0-7 in regular season and tied for 2nd worst in FRANCHISE history. I really believe we can go all 0-20 first time in nfl btw

[D Bone]

we were never as good as them

 

Our '80s Ds were pretty damn good. So was Belichick's D for our last playoff win against the Pats.

[wargograw]

Zero firings until 2018 at the earliest.

[gftChris]

Arizona Cardinals in 2011-12 no Talent

Cleveland Browns in 2013 we have no talent!

Tennessee Titans 2014-2015 No talent here!

Cleveland Browns 2016 No talent to be found!

 

Thats the problem with horton he just keeps getting on to teams with no talent real shame that...

 

2011 Arizona - 18th in overall D

2012 Arizona - 12th

 

2014 Tennessee - 27th

2015 Tennessee - 12th

 

So the teams got better with him as DC. That being said, in 2013 Arizona were 8th, and in 2016 the Titans are 8th. So he might have had an impact, might not. I suspect, shockingly, there's more to it than stats.

[flyingfooldoug]

Zero firings until 2018 at the earliest.

Cool, we'll be 0-42 before that stupid fucking, DC goes

[ballpeen]

I am no fan of Hortons, but right now we have zero talent on D. None.

[flyingfooldoug]

I am no fan of Hortons, but right now we have zero talent on D. None.

Bullshit! Each and every one excelled in college and know how to play their position. It takes the coach to plan the chess match and utilize that talent in the best way possible. Only once in a while does a player come in and Excell. That's your playmaker. Coaching is everything in the NFL. Horton couldn't coach here in the past, didn't do so great for 2 other teams and is back. Now he's part owner of an 0-7 record. He sucked then, sucks today and will suck tomorrow. Him and whoever thought he is some sort of great NFL DC should all be shitcanned. Patience my ass! When a good HC takes over, the changes are immediate and for the better. I have witnessed this happen several times before and will happen again. How's the ST play going? O line? QB life expectancy? D line? D backfield? 2 minute drill? Other than new faces, is there game day improvement anywhere? All I have seen is redefining the word suck!

[gftChris]

"Each and every one excelled in college and know how to play their position"

 

So did basically everyone in the NFL (except Mingo). Are you saying there's no talent difference between the players? Or each team only gets a couple of 'playmakers' and everyone else is just an interchangeable scrub?

[gumby73]

is there game day improvement anywhere?

Yes, we are killer at coin tosses. We have won all but 1 or 2. but than of course we differ to put our great defense in harms way

[flyingfooldoug]

"Each and every one excelled in college and know how to play their position"

 

So did basically everyone in the NFL (except Mingo). Are you saying there's no talent difference between the players? Or each team only gets a couple of 'playmakers' and everyone else is just an interchangeable scrub?

I would have to say that in the 2-300 kids picked in the draft that there is very little difference in talent level. In a coaches league it's all about using your guys smarter than they use their guys. Billy B does not have all playmakers but sure wins a lot by out coaching the other guy. We need to find a high IQ guy that lives, eats, breathes football. He should be young, hungry and learn by their mistakes. Hue is a good dude, friendly, personable and tries. But I just don't see long term NFL success in his future. Christmas of next year, he will be quietly sipping Mai Tai's with Mike in Aruba on Jimmy's dime.

[flyingfooldoug]

Yes, we are killer at coin tosses. We have won all but 1 or 2. but than of course we differ to put our great defense in harms way

Ya, but then we choose to put our weakness on the field 1st.

[miktoxic]

You mean that shitty draft and FO that have 8.5 of our 12 sacks, 3 of our 6 ints and the qb that has the most yards and TD and the best qb rating for a browns rook posted? Coaching apparently is never to be held accountable on this board. 0-11 so far 0-7 in regular season and tied for 2nd worst in FRANCHISE history. I really believe we can go all 0-20 first time in nfl btw

 

Bullshit! Each and every one excelled in college and know how to play their position.

 

bullshit is right to both your arguments.

 

no difference in talent levels? what are you insane? so one player that is able to push another player 10 yards off the line of scrimmage but can't with another player at that same position and your're saying there's no difference in talent? our starters would be lucky to be substitute players on a good team. NO BLUE CHIP talent. none. and that the drafting of this FO cuz god knows this FO got rid of everyone else.

[gftChris]

Just to add, the current IR list:

 

Joel Bitonio

RG3

Rannell Hall

Nile Lawrence-Stample

Patrick Murray

Rajion Neal

Nate Orchard

Dennis Parks

Jordan Poyer

Austin Reiter

Glenn Winston

Dylan Winn

 

Current injured but still on roster list:

 

Joe Haden

Corey Coleman

Josh McCown

Seth Devalve

Marcus Burley

 

Finally, Desmond Bryant is on the NFI list for the year.

 

So by my count that's 8 players who have started a game for us this year, that have been missing for large portions of the season, plus Bryant who would be a starter. I know all teams get injuries but that's half a team, basically. In particular, in Haden, Bitonio, Coleman, Bryant, Orchard, McCown/RG3 and Poyer (and if you're feeling generous throw Reiter in as well) would be key players for this team. Add in guys who have missed games and come back - Erving, Nassib for example - and you get a team that's been decimated by injuries and is now relying on low round rookies and scrubs to step up in their place.

 

Haden -> Body Calhoun

Bitonio -> Bailey

Coleman -> Louis

Bryant -> Meder

Orchard -> Schobert

McCown/RG3 -> Kessler/Hogan

Poyer -> Howard

 

You're telling me there's not a huge drop off in talent level from the guy on the left to the guy on the right? Maybe not everyone we're missing is an all-pro, but plenty are key contributors for this team with talent much greater than the guy coming in.

[flyingfooldoug]

bullshit is right to both your arguments.

 

no difference in talent levels? what are you insane? so one player that is able to push another player 10 yards off the line of scrimmage but can't with another player at that same position and your're saying there's no difference in talent? our starters would be lucky to be substitute players on a good team. NO BLUE CHIP talent. none. and that the drafting of this FO cuz god knows this FO got rid of everyone else.

We don't have the playmakers because we traded them away for numbers. We need those blue chip guys. They are the exceptions in the draft though. Why does one guy suck here, then go somewhere else and play well? Motivation? Game planning his specific skills? Luck? One team plugs in a second rounder and does well and another team takes a high first for bust. It would seem to me that HS and College coaches are supposed to be teachers first. At the pro level it's about being a chess master and motivation guru. Sam was a quiet motivation expert, Cowhere was a more firey type but getting your team ready and motivated to win is huge.

Go Browns...sigh

Go Cav's... Defend it with pride!

Go Tribe....Bring it Home!

[gftChris]

Who sucked here then went on to be great elsewhere? As far as I can see, there are a few ex-browns around the league doing well - TJ Ward, Jabaal Sheard, Alex Mack and Mitchell Schwartz (shout out to Tom Heckert btw) - but they were all good players in Cleveland first. Letting them go was the mistake (shout out to Ray Farmer), sure, but it's not like we're seeing greg little, or donte whitner, or paul kruger, or brandon weeden, or basically anyone that sucked in cleveland going on to do great things elsewhere.

 

Maybe there's someone I'm forgetting, but it's not like there's a trend.

[miktoxic]

agreed, but my point was more about vet presence, not that anyone we've had on the roster in the past how many years has been top ten talent except the 2 joes.

 

we have no top 10 talent (except the joes, when healthy.....and they're both on the back end of their careers) on this roster. maybe kessler's #'s will disprove that. pryor and crowell are going to get shut down considering the Ds will key on them and i'm not at all suggesting they are top 10 even without that distinction.

 

for years now i've heard the old " we have so many holes to fill." "we have to draft a foundation for this team then build up." blah blah blah blah blah. ok, so these different FOs have been drafting foundation for the last decade but we still draft foundation every year?

 

GTFO.

[Clevfan4life]

Watching the Cards and Seahawks get to 3-3 OT game because of defenses makes me sick when I think of today's game against Cincy.

Right, now think what both of those offenses would do to the browns. Those defenses are built on solid foundations that havent been revamped year after year. You could take both those dc's snd put em on the browns this year and not much changes. Thats thr calue in sticking with a coaching staff for years. Both of those entire coaching staffs could be on tje browns this season and we'd be exactly where webare and people like ghoolie would be calling them house ngrs that need to be fired asap.

[flyingfooldoug]

agreed, but my point was more about vet presence, not that anyone we've had on the roster in the past how many years has been top ten talent except the 2 joes.

 

we have no top 10 talent (except the joes, when healthy.....and they're both on the back end of their careers) on this roster. maybe kessler's #'s will disprove that. pryor and crowell are going to get shut down considering the Ds will key on them and i'm not at all suggesting they are top 10 even without that distinction.

 

for years now i've heard the old " we have so many holes to fill." "we have to draft a foundation for this team then build up." blah blah blah blah blah. ok, so these different FOs have been drafting foundation for the last decade but we still draft foundation every year?

 

GTFO.

I agree and sorry I didn't clarify. We sorely need some star players. Have forever now. Seems like Cribbs is about as big a name that we've had here. Pryor has real potential and by this time next week we should have him locked in to an extension.....or, he gets traded to Green Bay. They want him. Haden comes to play and plays his position well. Ball hawk doesn't come to mind thinking about him though. He may get traded too. Crap, I'm to the point that if we have the number one pick plus 3 other first rounders, take 4 QBs, God only knows that we need em.

[TexasAg1969]

 

Wow, 6-6 tie in OT. Guess I should have watched. Time to drag out the history books for the last time (if ever) a 5 quarter OT game ever went without a TD being scored.

Oh you missed a heck of an ending. BOTH kickers missed old time XP distance FG's to get the win. Never thought that was possible in the NFL.