gftChris Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Nobody like Stoke on Trent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Nobody like Stoke on Trent. Are you saying nobody likes them....or there is nobody like them. Aren't they essentially the Chicago Cubs of English soccer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Ray Horton is a good man. You're just jealous of him because he doesn't drive pieces of shit cars like your whole family does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Are you saying nobody likes them....or there is nobody like them. Aren't they essentially the Chicago Cubs of English soccer? Oh I see what you mean. The team is just called Stoke, FYI. And generally, nobody likes Stoke. Given the hierarchical structure and multiple trophy format of soccer in the UK (and generally world-wide) it's difficult to say that any team is like the cubs. For example, I'm an Aston Villa fan, for my sins, and they haven't won the top division championship since 1981, so 35 years, but there have been various other trophies in the years since then. Most of that time though we've been in the top division. Compare with a team like, say, Huddersfield, who last won the league in 1926, and have been mostly outside of the top division. And further down, there are teams that have been in existence for a hundred years or more and have never won a thing. So in short, it's difficult to draw direct comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Oh I see what you mean. The team is just called Stoke, FYI. And generally, nobody likes Stoke. Given the hierarchical structure and multiple trophy format of soccer in the UK (and generally world-wide) it's difficult to say that any team is like the cubs. For example, I'm an Aston Villa fan, for my sins, and they haven't won the top division championship since 1981, so 35 years, but there have been various other trophies in the years since then. Most of that time though we've been in the top division. Compare with a team like, say, Huddersfield, who last won the league in 1926, and have been mostly outside of the top division. And further down, there are teams that have been in existence for a hundred years or more and have never won a thing. So in short, it's difficult to draw direct comparisons. OK, right. Because of the "relegation" thing? To draw a comparison...you are saying that say the Cubs could have been at some point "sent down" to play in the "minor leagues"...and could have won a title in the minor leagues....but that would not count as a real Top league title. We have a bit of that here: e.g.....the Browns and 49ers once played in the AAFC. And there are some that dismiss the titles won by the Browns in that league...with the mistaken belief that it was an inferior league. (It in fact was not....it had better attendance, paid its players more money, had black players when the NFL didn't....and its champion wiped out the NFL champion the first time they played. The AAFC went under because of lack of competition. A similar thing could be said about the AFL. Many NFL people thought the AFL was inferior...a minor league. But the structure of the NFL today reflects the merger of the two league, and Joe Namath's victory in SBIII disavowed people of the notion that the AFL was inferior. Similar things have happened in both hocky and basketball. There was the ABA and the NBA., and the NHL and the WHA. Again, here, mergers were conducted to bring teams from the so called "inferior" leagues into the fold. Your system is more like baseball here where we have AAA level leagues, AA level and A level. Except there is no transiting among levels as there may be there. E.g. No matter how many AAA championships say the Louisville or Columbus teams win, they will never replace a very bad team that is a major league team. Milwaukee can lose 110 games....but not be replaced by the minor league's best team. Of course, here also we have the situation that a city may be minor league only in one sport, but major league in another. Take Indianapolis. It has major league teams in football and basketball.....but its baseball and hockey teams are minor league. In fact, Cleveland has 3 major league teams in football, baseball, and basketball....but a minor league hockey team. (but, it just so happens that the Cleveland minor league hockey team plays in a nicer, bigger facility that the "major league club" with which it is associated. But....we can say this about that: that Cleveland hockey team won the Minor league championship....the AHL (American Hockey League) (and its major league affiliate also won the NHL title). If the Indians win...it will actually be the third championship for a sports team in town this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 You are aware he is playing with a lingering high ankle sprain and gets double teamed and schemed for every play? And he is 6'5 270 and far faster/quicker than those other two. Judge after the combine. 0 No i was not aware he was playing injured. He lookef fast against bama though, but didnr look no 270 though. If bamas ol got a hold of him he let his arms get crumpled. Not sure if thats technique or lack of strength. Ill withhold judgement for now but from little ive seen he wiuldnt be on my radar righ now if i worked for the browns fo. Moreso because we already invested two picks at that pisition last year and we have such glaring needs elsewhere, like OL. Id like to see what we have in nassib and ogbah before we use another high pick on that position. Next year qb and ol need to take precedent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 No i was not aware he was playing injured. He lookef fast against bama though, but didnr look no 270 though. If bamas ol got a hold of him he let his arms get crumpled. Not sure if thats technique or lack of strength. Ill withhold judgement for now but from little ive seen he wiuldnt be on my radar righ now if i worked for the browns fo. Moreso because we already invested two picks at that pisition last year and we have such glaring needs elsewhere, like OL. Id like to see what we have in nassib and ogbah before we use another high pick on that position. Next year qb and ol need to take precedent. I generally disagree with QB and OL taking precedent. Obviously it's contingent on this year, but we need to see what Coleman can do at right tackle, and Reiter looked excellent at center by all accounts. Not to say we're set there, but those two guys could be fine. QB is done to death, everyone knows the deal. Point being, we have guys who can grow in to those positions and by next year become solid players. In the secondary, however, we have a couple of decent strong safeties, an often injured former pro bowl CB on a bloated contract, and that's about it. Sure, if Haden is playing 16 games then that's one side sorted, but even so, we still are left with Jamar Taylor starting opposite (Williams will be cut probably) and some undrafted rookies. Poyer has done nothing of note at free safety. At edge rusher, we invested a relatively high pick in Ogbah, but starting across from him is fourth rounder, Joe Schobert, who has 12 tackles and no sacks through seven games. Nassib is playing DE and as much as you (and others including me to a degree) want to see a switch to a 4-3 it won't be happening. Nassib will continue to play the 5-tech, Shelton the nose, and hopefully we can pick someone up to replace Meder. Just my 2c of course, everything is subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Yeah if there was a jalen ramsey out there perhaps. But i have zero confidence in almost our entire o line and this has been going on for years. Im in no mood anymore for "well lets wait to see how this late rounder or udfa pans out". They never do. Our two best o lineman are 1st and 2nd rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 And our worst OL is a first rounder, while the next best, Greco, was a third rounder. Coleman was only a third rounder, not like he's a UDFA we're hoping for miracles from. He's a guy some projected to go in round two, but fell for whatever reasons and we got (in theory) decent value on. He's been injured and just coming back to playing for the first time. Give him a few games to try to do something before declaring him a bust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 1) Our entire secondary sucks. Bad. The safeties are NOT fine - rather, we're forced to play backup-level players because we simply don't have the talent. 2) Our ILB's suck. Bad. Just stop it with the homerism. 3) Schobert isn't a starter - they play both ILB's and call Ogbah an OLB even though he's a DL lined up elsewhere. Go check the snap count stats on DBN.. Schobert played all of 3 on Sunday. So, yes, he has no stats..... because he doesn't play. DL was dreadful this past week, but so was the entire defense. They need talent at every position, and they just don't have it yet. Nassib is a fine complementary player, but not by himself. If the draft is QB at 1 and then nothing but D except for maybe another OL, that's fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Speaking of the offense, I was just doing a little looking at the stats for this season: rush yards per game: 120 (8th in NFL) pass yards per game: 228 (24th) total ypg: 348 (16th) rush ypc: 5.1 (2nd) pass ypa: 6.9 (21st) red zone efficiency 61% (12th) points per game: 18.6 (27th) So with reasonable yards per game, and knowing that there's only so many yards you can move before scoring, why the disparity? One final stat - drives starting inside own 20 yard line: 23/82 ~ 28% (28th in NFL). So while it's not a clear vindication of everything on offense, it is clear that the O is capable of moving the ball, at least in fits and start, but usually has so far to go that they struggle to put points on the board. Inside the red zone, we're not terrible - 12th is pretty acceptable for the state of this team right now. The run game is boom or bust, for sure, but with some better line play should continue to be a strength. We just need to get more out of our D, and to a lesser degree, special teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 1) Our entire secondary sucks. Bad. The safeties are NOT fine - rather, we're forced to play backup-level players because we simply don't have the talent. Campbell and Kindred have shown some ability to be strong safeties. That's all I'm saying. Free safety is terrible, and the uninjured corners are arguably worse. 2) Our ILB's suck. Bad. Just stop it with the homerism. They're not great, but other positions are worse. Kirksey is OK. 3) Schobert isn't a starter - they play both ILB's and call Ogbah an OLB even though he's a DL lined up elsewhere. Go check the snap count stats on DBN.. Schobert played all of 3 on Sunday. So, yes, he has no stats..... because he doesn't play. This is true - it also means the same as what I say, that the FO will be looking to get a new OLB because Ray Horton likes his 3-4 and we're only playing a lot of 4-3 this year because of the 'talent' available. DL was dreadful this past week, but so was the entire defense. They need talent at every position, and they just don't have it yet. Nassib is a fine complementary player, but not by himself. Yes. If the draft is QB at 1 and then nothing but D except for maybe another OL, that's fine by me. Dependent on Kessler, I agree. And by another OL, I mean a center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 It seems like we're using schobert more as a cover and run stopping olb'er. I didnt see much pass rushing out of him. And in that respect what ive seen of him he's fine. Again i would prefer us in a 4-3 so nassib and ogbah are always on the field together and schoberts the olb'er where he can blitz from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 One note on Kirksey... he may not be the guy to be our lead ILB, but the other guy next to the guy. He had a three-play sequence vs. Cinci where he stuffed a run with a gap shot, sacked Dalton and then defended a pass 20 yards downfield. He has the tools. ... but (Garrett) didnr look no 270 though. Next year qb and ol need to take precedent. Agree... Garrett looked a lot leaner than 270. Jury is still out on QB, but OL future looks promising if we find the answer at RT on our roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 That's where I am on Kirksey as well. He's clearly not Luke Kuechly, but he could definitely be D'Qwell Jackson, hopefully tackling further upfield. I remember hearing on sunday something about Kirksey's tackles for 2 yards or less being somewhere very high, like 4th or 5th? A somewhat arbitrary stat I guess, but it shows he's tackling at least close to the LoS, as opposed to just racking up tackles covering for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 I think kirksey might lead the league right now in that stat. Ive been enciuraged this year by him and davis. Both those guys are getting upfield way better on run plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 One note on Kirksey... he may not be the guy to be our lead ILB, but the other guy next to the guy. He had a three-play sequence vs. Cinci where he stuffed a run with a gap shot, sacked Dalton and then defended a pass 20 yards downfield. He has the tools. Agree... Garrett looked a lot leaner than 270. Jury is still out on QB, but OL future looks promising if we find the answer at RT on our roster. Kirksey can be adequate If surrounded by enough talent. The Jackson comparison look to be correct. RE: OL, you're not giving up on Erving yet Tour? I liked what I saw of Reiter until he got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Kirksey can be adequate If surrounded by enough talent. The Jackson comparison look to be correct. RE: OL, you're not giving up on Erving yet Tour? I liked what I saw of Reiter until he got hurt. lol... I think you first have to be up, to give up... Offensive Tackle Reviews Cameron Erving: FSU (02-11-15) vs. OK St/ND - no kick; lotta waist bend; feet look heavy; fires out on run blocks; focus? Head? ND's DE Sheldon Day gave fits with low edge rush. I can see as an interior prospect, but would like to see tape on him there. Once we had a serious look at him inside, it was too late. Even at, per some, his "natural" position of Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 lol... I think you first have to be up, to give up... Once we had a serious look at him inside, it was too late. Even at, per some, his "natural" position of Center. RE: Erving- sad, sad, yet another chapter in the Follies of Ray Farmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 cant say Im a Horton fan(cause Im not)....but.....he has the same shit(or worse) that Oneill had.....and NEITHER coach is gonna get gold from this shit.... For the billionth time.....this team lacks TALENT....not coaching.....we are losing because of TALENT, not coaching.....our D sucks because it has no TALENT, not because of coaching..... i look at horton on the sidelines and all game long, he's just shaking his head. Probably thinking the same thing you are mud... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Of course talent is the issue. Its the issue all over the team. No coach can come in here and get these guys to beat other guys on the field that are demonstrably (for the moment) better than them. If these guys havent been properly developed in a few years than its coaching. But or FO traded down so we dodnt get joey bosa or any of the "ready right fucking now" mother fuckers. I promise you if it had been up to hue or horton we would have taken either one of those cocksucking twinkies or joey babosa. But haslem has structured this franchise such that the coaches arent the final shot callers on draft say. We shall see if this works out or not. Me personally i like the idea of trading down for more picks if and only if the organization can prove they find later round gems and develop them. If we cant then we have yo take guys lime bosa or mack or watkins when its our pick. Please none of you act like vince lonbardi could come out of his grave and coach this up. Ghoolie is trolling you guys out hard we never make the right picks...maybe 1 out of a fucking million and thats it...not enough to build a good team...this jets team is ripe for a pounding with their issues but i guarantee you we will get butchered this sunday....fucking washed up forte will probably get 150 on the ground and the bearded one will probably throw for 3 td's...oh well, at least we got the tribe..i knew francona would get them a championship...guy is a true winner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I agree, and I think so does this front office. Where you're annoyed is that they cut Whitner, Kruger and Dansby - three aging, underperforming veterans on big money - and didn't resign Benjamin, Gipson or Schwartz. They *should* have resigned Schwartz and Gipson, and keeping Benji would have been nice but he's replaceable. Mack doesn't count - he wanted out for years and nothing we could have done would have stopped him, like Phil Dawson. So the new group of veterans in, say, 2018 (it's all headed to being great in 2018 btw) we'll have on our team should be people like Davis (FA), Kirksey, Bitonio, Shelton, Campbell, Crowell/Duke, all will be in their fourth or fifth year, plus the existing guys like Thomas, Haden and maybe Hawkins. they should have kept tj ward yrs ago also...whitner sucked...kruger was ok his first yr but went downhill and dansby has seen better days. gipson and schwartz is where we fucked up. Don't know what it is, but up to this point, from 99 to present day, this organization does not know football...they are really good at tripping over themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Bullshit! Each and every one excelled in college and know how to play their position. It takes the coach to plan the chess match and utilize that talent in the best way possible. Only once in a while does a player come in and Excell. That's your playmaker. Coaching is everything in the NFL. Horton couldn't coach here in the past, didn't do so great for 2 other teams and is back. Now he's part owner of an 0-7 record. He sucked then, sucks today and will suck tomorrow. Him and whoever thought he is some sort of great NFL DC should all be shitcanned. Patience my ass! When a good HC takes over, the changes are immediate and for the better. I have witnessed this happen several times before and will happen again. How's the ST play going? O line? QB life expectancy? D line? D backfield? 2 minute drill? Other than new faces, is there game day improvement anywhere? All I have seen is redefining the word suck! there is no improvement...in fact we are regressing...we lose to the jets sunday, we go 0-16....jets are so beatable now but with this shit team, i don't know how we do it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 i look at horton on the sidelines and all game long, he's just shaking his head. Probably thinking the same thing you are mud... we never make the right picks...maybe 1 out of a fucking million and thats it...not enough to build a good team...this jets team is ripe for a pounding with their issues but i guarantee you we will get butchered this sunday....fucking washed up forte will probably get 150 on the ground and the bearded one will probably throw for 3 td's...oh well, at least we got the tribe..i knew francona would get them a championship...guy is a true winner... they should have kept tj ward yrs ago also...whitner sucked...kruger was ok his first yr but went downhill and dansby has seen better days. gipson and schwartz is where we fucked up. Don't know what it is, but up to this point, from 99 to present day, this organization does not know football...they are really good at tripping over themselves. there is no improvement...in fact we are regressing...we lose to the jets sunday, we go 0-16....jets are so beatable now but with this shit team, i don't know how we do it.... All I do is bitch52...Watch..understand.. then Bitch.1. Horton is mostly in what they call a booth.. 2. Due to a collection of dumb ass GM drafting. & 3. Piss poor GM's locking up our good talent. We have watched this FO 1. make fair offers to Mack & Schwartz & still lost 5 FA's past their control. 2.Knowing this team has "No Talent" & loss of FA's. Understood they had to pass on the best talent now, for the possible opportunity to land more Talent on your? team in future. They still may have landed on 3. #4--How the hell does Hartline,Whitner,Kruger,Gilbert & Manhell look now?..BTW--They tried to treat Gordon with class & he still took a sh*t on them.. You can't fix a Factory of Sadness in your 1st Season.. Guess, Some of us can start to see it & some just stayed locked in the Factory..Go Browns!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Too many times our kids on D take poor angles. They think they're still in college and that they're faster than everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicineman Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 The tackle is just down right jr high. It is pathetic. It is as if they are trying to tackle their girlfriend in the backyard in a friendly game. And the Hail O Mary at the end of the 2nd half???? That should of NEVER happened. They should of gave up their game check just because of that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 The tackle is just down right jr high. It is pathetic. It is as if they are trying to tackle their girlfriend in the backyard in a friendly game. And the Hail O Mary at the end of the 2nd half???? That should of NEVER happened. They should of gave up their game check just because of that play. No, the coach should have given up his game check for calling the assistive TO for Cincy. There is a reason idiota translates easily into English from Spanish & Italian. So all can recognize the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicineman Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Yes the TO was ef'n DUMB. That is like RAC all over again! SMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Screw Jim Oneil all his fault we can't pressure the QB So I read this and just laughed and laughed..... Just went back and read a bunch of old threads, with all the ranting about Oneills "scheme" and how the coaches made this D so bad by mis using players and having a bad scheme etc.....one poster(Cal) said the team would be 4 games better just by switching coaches......haaaaaaaaaahahahaha..... After giving up on the battle, trying to convince the lynch mob that talent was the answer(not coaching), I posted......"I cant wait till they fire Oneill and when the new defensive coordinator still cant stop the run or win a game cause he has shit players, then ya'll can start blaming the new coach"... And it didnt take long(at all)......(or course most of those people are completely awol right now.....and I also notice the board has zero chatter about "good" stuff, up and coming players, general sunshine pumping, great plays, etc.......why?...... So, which is it??......Horton sucks? Oneill sucks? the players suck?......all of the above?.......or blame it on Who?......anyone? Haaaaaaaaaahahahaha....... it's so bad, it's become funny...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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