Hey, assholes...

[gftChris]

Yes you guys. And probably me, to some people. We're all assholes to someone. Anyway, not the point.

 

My point is this: we all want the same things. It might be very easy to look at this election cycle and conclude that democrats are from mars and republicans are from venus (and "someone" is from uranus...) and we are all intrinsically and diametrically opposed on everything. This, though, is a product of the two party politics that drive our elections - both in the US and UK. I would struggle to believe that anyone here, let alone half, would actually disagree with any/many of the following:

 

- We want to get rid of ISIS and terrorists as much as possible

- We want to protect ourselves and our families from criminals

- We want to see jobs for anyone who wants a job, and support for those who *can't* work

- We don't want to see people scrounging off the state

- We want to welcome hard-working, decent people from wherever, regardless of race/religion/gender etc

- We don't want to see our media controlled by a few elites who just want to spread their propaganda for their own personal gains

- We don't want to see our politicians controlled by that elite either

- If you work hard, you should be rewarded, but you shouldn't need to work 14 hours a day every day to support yourself and your family

- Cancer's a bitch, and we need to find a cure

- The lower-middle class has been decimated by jobs being moved overseas in the last half century and is not feeling the post-recession boom experienced by some

- Everyone is entitled to an education, and what your parents do, or did, or where they live shouldn't affect that

- Not enough young people are taking up the skilled jobs that are available

- It's great that the cavs and indians are good, but who gives a fuck? Wait til the browns get good.

 

The list goes on and on, folks. There are things we disagree on as well, like what kind of a role the government should play in life, and we might disagree on the means to achieve these goals, but ultimately, I see the same drivers behind 90% of people, world-wide. Take care of my family first, protect them from harm, make sure they have a future.

 

There are narratives being pushed by both sides of the political elite, but in the same way people voted for Trump because they want to 'drain the swamp', you go to any 'millennials for change' or whatever facebook group and they post the same stuff, that we need to hold elected officials accountable, that we need to make sure they're acting in the best interests of the country. In republicans it manifested in a vote for Trump; in democrats, a vote for Bernie. Both millennials and republicans hate Hillary because she represents the worst of the political establishment - cover ups, dynastic politics, cosying up to big money. Democrats just hated Trump's rhetoric more.

[Westside Steve]

The Russians love their children too.

 

WSS

[gftChris]

And you know what? The majority of the germans on the front line did too. But they'd been hoodwinked in to thinking that the jews were satan himself.

 

The Russians love their children too.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

And you know what? The majority of the germans on the front line did too. But they'd been hoodwinked in to thinking that the jews were satan himself.

 

Yes I think that was kind of the point of the song. You remember it right? Sting.

And I'm not blind enough to miss similarities.

 

WSS

[gftChris]

I think that one must have gone over my head I'm afraid. But yes, I see that's what you were getting at now.

 

Point is, there's suck vitriol hurled from one side to the other, so many people fail to even say one good thing about the other side, and especially their nominee. How many republicans can find something good to say about Hillary? How many democrats can praise Trump for something? And the same story, you ask the average democrat, and they'll tell you republicans are all exclusively racist, sexist bigots who want to run the country according to the bible. You ask an average republican and democrats are all lazy scroungers that want to take your hard earned money and give it to those eternal shirkers.

[BrownsKidd]

I think that one must have gone over my head I'm afraid. But yes, I see that's what you were getting at now.

 

Point is, there's suck vitriol hurled from one side to the other, so many people fail to even say one good thing about the other side, and especially their nominee. How many republicans can find something good to say about Hillary? How many democrats can praise Trump for something? And the same story, you ask the average democrat, and they'll tell you republicans are all exclusively racist, sexist bigots who want to run the country according to the bible. You ask an average republican and democrats are all lazy scroungers that want to take your hard earned money and give it to those eternal shirkers.

As for HRC. She is probably a very intelligent woman. She has a lot of political experience. She's a great speaker. She has potential to add-value to Washington. The problem is perception. For me, and my wife says the same thing about her, HRC appears to have this persona that is superficial and that behind closed doors, she is probably not any different than Donald Trump. She wears elitism as if it were a merit badge, to be proudly displayed. Her inability to foreshadow how she managed emails, Benghazi, her campaign, Bill, the Clinton Foundation, the media, and all the collusion and corruption with foreign dignitaries was tantamount to her election downfall.

[Clevfan4life]

But they'd been hoodwinked in to thinking that the jews were satan himself.

 

What do u mean by "hoodwinked"?

[gftChris]

What do u mean by "hoodwinked"?

Sorry, I should refrain from using big words, I know. Oh, 'refrain from' means stop, btw.

 

It means to trick, or deceive. Like, 'madoff hoodwinked people into giving him money'.

[Westside Steve]

Sorry, I should refrain from using big words, I know. Oh, 'refrain from' means stop, btw.

 

It means to trick, or deceive. Like, 'madoff hoodwinked people into giving him money'.

I'm afraid the point Cleve is trying to make is that he doesn't believe anyone was actually Hoodwinked into believing Jews are Satan like he believes.

 

WSS

[Osiris]

Yes I think that was kind of the point of the song. You remember it right? Sting.

And I'm not blind enough to miss similarities.

 

WSS

 

Great song. Love Sting.

 

Anyway, I would agree that most people want all those things. Sadly, I'm not sure everyone wants this one though:

 

"We want to welcome hard-working, decent people from wherever, regardless of race/religion/gender etc"

 

Because a lot of people are angry that immigrants are taking 'their' jobs, because apparently it's okay to have competition between businesses but not between potential employees. Even when we want the same things, we'll disagree on the solution. One side will say the solution is to not let them into the country, another side will say the solution is to make the people who feel like 'their' jobs are being taken more competitive in getting those jobs or getting better ones through education.

[StinkHole]

The Russians love their children too.

 

WSS

Stuart

 

So do rats.

 

Coincidentally so do democRATS

[Westside Steve]

That's a good point and I am very surprised that it's not the Democrat Union voters who are most against illegal immigration or immigration in general. Nobody expects Americans to pick grapes or do landscaping for 7 or 8 bucks an hour but carpenters construction workers drywall hangers even a lot of factory workers don't need a great deal of skill or education and those jobs have been done by union workers in the past. Of course that percentage is shrinking but it's also shrinking the ranks of the unions.

 

Not to mention doctors from India in the Middle East. I wonder what the AMA thinks of that?

 

Hence my continued support for a guest-worker program.

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Stuart

 

So do rats.

 

Coincidentally so do democRATS

And I've heard that human beings and rats are the only mammals who will fight with each other for no reason.

 

WSS

[Osiris]

That's a good point and I am very surprised that it's not the Democrat Union voters who are most against illegal immigration or immigration in general. Nobody expects Americans to pick grapes or do landscaping for 7 or 8 bucks an hour but carpenters construction workers drywall hangers even a lot of factory workers don't need a great deal of skill or education and those jobs have been done by union workers in the past. Of course that percentage is shrinking but it's also shrinking the ranks of the unions.

 

Not to mention doctors from India in the Middle East. I wonder what the AMA thinks of that?

 

Hence my continued support for a guest-worker program.

 

WSS

 

Well I can tell you my mother was an MD/PhD in Egypt and when we immigrated to the USA she had to start from the ground up (working in lab collecting specimens which is typically technician's work). She eventually rose to top hospital administration but the system here makes immigrant doctors work for it. Given doctors hold people's lives in their hands, I am glad that immigrant doctors are held to a high standard.