The Gipper Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 We talk about the need for an edge rusher for the Browns. But, in my opinion, the BEST pressure that a defense can put on a QB is the pressure that come right in his face. Up the middle pressure. Nothing disrupts a QB more than the pocket collapsing in front of him. So, yes, it is fine to have a DE or OLB come swooping around the edge to get at a QB.....but, I have always been told that the shortest distance between two spots is s straight line. And having someone blow over the center or guards, or shoot the gaps between them is the best pressure. And while Danny Shelton is vastly improved, I still am not seeing where he is often overpowering the OL on his way to the QB, or putting on the burst that gets him through the holes to get there. So, now, what do the Browns do about this? Will going back to the 4-3...if that is what we do under Williams...help. And what do we have up front besides Shelton that can accomplish this? Or...who do we draft/acquire to do this? Would this be a more appropriate job for a blitzing MLB? Who? Any of the combo of Kirksey/Davis/Colins? All I am saying is that I think this approach is just as critical...or more so than an edge rusher would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Should we keep our eye on Carlos Watkins, senior DT at Clemson tonight? I can think of a perfect example of what I am talking about....another Clemson guy: Michael Dean Perry. To paraphrase Archie and Edith Bunker: "We can use a man like Michael Dean Perry again". Fair to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 If middle pressure is what is needed, the combo of Shelton and Jonathan Allen could be what Williams is looking for. With the Rams, WIlliams had Aaron McDonald at DT. Allen fits that profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Gip remember that sheltons responsibility in the 3-4 is mostly to soak up double teams and hold his gaps. Getting upfield is an afterthought. And in that respect he was rated as the best in the league no? So in the 4-3 he might be turned loose more. But im sure the new dc will also use im to spring the other frontline guys loose. Frankly i see big things from our front 4, especially if we get allen or garett. Lb'ers might be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 If middle pressure is what is needed, the combo of Shelton and Jonathan Allen could be what Williams is looking for. With the Rams, WIlliams had Aaron McDonald at DT. Allen fits that profile. I dont mind using allen as DT on passing downs. But im gonna be upset if he's not used mainly as the strong side DE. He would absolutelyy lock down the edge on his side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I dont mind using allen as DT on passing downs. But im gonna be upset if he's not used mainly as the strong side DE. He would absolutelyy lock down the edge on his side. Well if Horton was still here he would be our nickel corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Lulz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Gip remember that sheltons responsibility in the 3-4 is mostly to soak up double teams and hold his gaps. Getting upfield is an afterthought. And in that respect he was rated as the best in the league no? So in the 4-3 he might be turned loose more. But im sure the new dc will also use im to spring the other frontline guys loose. Frankly i see big things from our front 4, especially if we get allen or garett. Lb'ers might be a different story. Allen and Garret are both listed as DEs. Do you think either of them can do the Reggie White/JJ Watt type thing where they line up half the time on the inside? And, yes, I get it that in a 4-3 that system could eliminate a lot of the double teams Shelton sees....and maybe free him up. But do we have a "running mate" for him? Do we have a Bob Lilly to his Randy White? A Rosey Grier to his Merlin Olson? Right now we have what? Jamie Meder? Would Dez Bryant play that role? (with Ogbah/Nassib at the DEs) I think we do need a guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Im more than happy to see meder playing with sheltonnect year, i think they're a good tandem. Add bryant and maybe one other guy we're solid. Like i said im ok with allen at DT in certain packages, but i want that man strength on one of our edges. Stsly allen will have way more impact at DE than DT next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Im more than happy to see meder playing with sheltonnect year, i think they're a good tandem. Add bryant and maybe one other guy we're solid. Like i said im ok with allen at DT in certain packages, but i want that man strength on one of our edges. Stsly allen will have way more impact at DE than DT next year. OK, still....lets see with this new DC if he may not want to add some emphasis on getting help in the middle. So let's not be surprised if the Browns take a DT in say the second round. Watkins? Malik McDowell, Mich St. Chris Wormley, Michigan, Caleb Brantley Florida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Is there an echo in here?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Im in camp allen for now, but would anyone really be all that pissed if we took garett? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Im in camp allen for now, but would anyone really be all that pissed if we took garett? Not in the least bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Im in camp allen for now, but would anyone really be all that pissed if we took garett? I think Barnett and Williams may be the equals of those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I think Barnett and Williams may be the equals of those two. Which games have you watched that make you feel that way? I haven't paid much attention to Barnett or Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Which games have you watched that make you feel that way? I haven't paid much attention to Barnett or Williams. Which games have you watched that say that they aren't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I think Barnett and Williams may be the equals of those two. Trollolololol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Trollolololol. They may be. You have no more fucking clue about it than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Which games have you watched that say that they aren't? I wasn't the one saying Barnett and Williams are equal to them thus why I asked you. I thought you had made an informed decision. I already said I have not watched much of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I wasn't the one saying Barnett and Williams are equal to them thus why I asked you. I thought you had made an informed decision. I already said I have not watched much of them. My opinion of them is as well devoloped as it that about Williams and Garrett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 They may be. You have no more fucking clue about it than I do. Ummmm... But the bigger point is that the whole premise of this thread is off base. Edge rushers are where it's at for QB disruption making a QB step up, cutting the distance DTs have to penetrate gets them more sacks than their rush skills get them. It's true even for the great DTs. And I can see Allen playing inside... a lot... even in a base 4-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Ummmm... But the bigger point is that the whole premise of this thread is off base. Edge rushers are where it's at for QB disruption making a QB step up, cutting the distance DTs have to penetrate gets them more sacks than their rush skills get them. It's true even for the great DTs. And I can see Allen playing inside... a lot... even in a base 4-3. I don't think so. A stud of a passing rushing DT is every bit if not more valuable than an edge rusher. It is just a fact that edge rushers have much less resistance than most DTs. DTs have to fight of OGs, OCs, and often blocking fullbacks. So it is much harder for them to get sacks. A Michael Dean Perry was more valuable than a Rob Barnett. When JJ Watt or Reggie Watt went inside they were quite possibly more dangerous than any DE. Again, and edge rusher's job is simply easier. But tell you what.....if the Browns had a MDP type player on the inside to go along with Shelton....how good do you think Obgah and Nassib would look then? Their jobs would be a lot easier, and they would look a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 They may be. You have no more fucking clue about it than I do. Of the two of us I'm willing to wager a great deal that I've watched more tape on all four to backup my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Of the two of us I'm willing to wager a great deal that I've watched more tape on all four to backup my opinion. And, who gives a flying fuck about that? Again, remember, you and I are just stupid fans. We don't mean shit. Your opinion don't mean shit. Mine neither. But, and I don't know if we got off track here...but to bring it back: Our Browns FO just made a big investment is DEs/OLBs last year, Ogbah, Nassib, Schobert....and possibly Collins. And I am simply saying that is highly probable that they have faith in those picks, and that picking up an edge rusher may not be their highest priority. OK, sure, if they absolutely fall in love with a guy like Garrett, and think they can't live without him, they may go against their own grain and pick the guy. That would still not change their basic philosophy...nor the needs of the team re these other positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Im in camp allen for now, but would anyone really be all that pissed if we took garett? Jonathon Allen plays for the best team in College Football and he's the reason they are the best team. Allen should be our first pick no matter what! And if Reuben Foster is there at 12 take him too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Christ we are in for a long few months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 And, who gives a flying fuck about that? Again, remember, you and I are just stupid fans. We don't mean shit. Your opinion don't mean shit. Mine neither. But, and I don't know if we got off track here...but to bring it back: Our Browns FO just made a big investment is DEs/OLBs last year, Ogbah, Nassib, Schobert....and possibly Collins. And I am simply saying that is highly probable that they have faith in those picks, and that picking up an edge rusher may not be their highest priority. OK, sure, if they absolutely fall in love with a guy like Garrett, and think they can't live without him, they may go against their own grain and pick the guy. That would still not change their basic philosophy...nor the needs of the team re these other positions. Speak for yourself, my draft board the last 10 years vs our vaunted front offices has more than held its own. I might never make six figures involved in professional football but as a former NFL player that went to my church one told me 'its not a game coached or played by geniuses'. I'll assume any teams highest priority is QB at any time you don't have a franchise player. But priority and availability have to align otherwise you've sank your pick into a middle of the road player(at best) at the most important position in sports. Draft class strength MUST be taken into account and the most consistent front offices in the NFL keep it in mind. I'm not saying Mitch is trash by any means, but the field to which you would compare a player to his constituents is....lacking. Is there any doubt about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Jonathon Allen plays for the best team in College Football and he's the reason they are the best team. Allen should be our first pick no matter what! And if Reuben Foster is there at 12 take him too! Apparently not. While I only peeked in on the game, in the commentary afterward it seemed a consensus that Allen had a rather pedestrian game. I heard the Ruben Foster was the true star of the Alabama defense. Just going by what I heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Speak for yourself, my draft board the last 10 years vs our vaunted front offices has more than held its own. Your draft board don't matter to anyone but you. I might never make six figures involved in professional football but as a former NFL player that went to my church one told me 'its not a game coached or played by geniuses'. I'll assume any teams highest priority is QB at any time you don't have a franchise player. But priority and availability have to align otherwise you've sank your pick into a middle of the road player(at best) at the most important position in sports. Maybe....Or, maybe a Hall of Fame Player? You have no fucking clue what he will become. Draft class strength MUST be taken into account and the most consistent front offices in the NFL keep it in mind. I'm not saying Mitch is trash by any means, but the field to which you would compare a player to his constituents is....lacking. Is there any doubt about that? Considerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 I don't think so. A stud of a passing rushing DT is every bit if not more valuable than an edge rusher. It is just a fact that edge rushers have much less resistance than most DTs. DTs have to fight of OGs, OCs, and often blocking fullbacks. So it is much harder for them to get sacks. A Michael Dean Perry was more valuable than a Rob Barnett. When JJ Watt or Reggie Watt went inside they were quite possibly more dangerous than any DE. Again, and edge rusher's job is simply easier. But tell you what.....if the Browns had a MDP type player on the inside to go along with Shelton....how good do you think Obgah and Nassib would look then? Their jobs would be a lot easier, and they would look a lot better. So the players who are less impactful are more important... got it. And Og and Nas would look like Og and Nas... Just going by what I heard. We're stunned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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