Charter schools

[Westside Steve]

Just wondering if anyone here has anything rational to say Pro or con about charter schools? I've searched and basically the links that are teachers union based hate them and it seems That's the basis of the anti Betsy DeVos movement.

One of the big criticisms a liberal friend of mine has is that he doesn't want them to get any public financing if they don't operate under the same regulations as the public schools. I can't get anyone to list any of these regulations but if it has anything to do with the teachers union contract I would imagine eliminating those regulations would be a good thing.

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Personally I have no problem with some Public Funding especially if the child's parents pay taxes and if that child is entitled to education.

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

The main argument for charter schools is that the students would perform better and the school would somehow magically be run more efficiently because of some secret free market spell despite it not really being a free mkt enterprise. Last i read that wasnt really panning out. Infact in some places in the country the charter schools are worse run than the shitty publuc schools.

 

Im not for or against them, just what I read.

[Osiris]

Just wondering if anyone here has anything rational to say Pro or con about charter schools? I've searched and basically the links that are teachers union based hate them and it seems That's the basis of the anti Betsy DeVos movement.

One of the big criticisms a liberal friend of mine has is that he doesn't want them to get any public financing if they don't operate under the same regulations as the public schools. I can't get anyone to list any of these regulations but if it has anything to do with the teachers union contract I would imagine eliminating those regulations would be a good thing.

 

WSS

 

 

We just these on our ballot in the recent election:

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/11/08/charter/v34OA3vMI8dRABDsFc4JuM/story.html

 

The opposition in MA argued against charter schools because they take funds away from public schools that are already strapped for funding. The proponents argued that it gives more choices particularly for people in disadvantaged areas with failing public schools.

 

Personally, at first I was in favor for charter schools because I didn't know they'd be sharing the same funding pool as the public system, and generally believed the competition would make the public schools better. I also liked the idea of having them as an 'incubator' where educators would be more free to innovate. However, now that I know they do indeed take money away from public schools, I can't support them.

 

If they had their own source of funding that didn't come from the budget already allocated to public schools, I would possibly be in favor of them again.

[BrownsKidd]

No expert here. Based on Ohio dept. of Ed. website funding is provide by:

"How School Funding is Distributed

Public school districts use a combination of state funds, local sources such as property taxes (and in some cases income taxes) and federal funds"

If I were to enroll my kids in a charter school, does the public school district still get the funds from my property taxes?

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I don't think that people whose kids are grown or people who don't have kids should have to pay for the education of other people's children.

[Westside Steve]

Oh I completely understand that the unions are angry if charter schools get money and that means less revenue for public schools. Still at the end of the day the goal should be to educate children at a reasonable cost no matter where they go, no?

WSS

[Westside Steve]

I don't think that people whose kids are grown or people who don't have kids should have to pay for the education of other people's children.

On the off-chance you're being serious I don't agree. I went to public school and somebody paid for it who might not have had children.

 

Actually I could see that homeschooling families should probably get a stipend even though I think homeschooling is not necessarily a great thing.

 

WSS

[LogicIsForSquares]

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/knowledge-bank/2015/03/19/new-study-shows-charter-schools-making-a-difference-in-cities

 

From the studies used for that article, it appears that on a whole that charter schools out perform the public schools in most urban areas. However, there were some under performing charter schools mixed in as well. Anecdotally, my wife has two friends who work at a charter school and their kids have far outperformed the public school kids in the same district on standardized testing. It isn't a focus of theirs it is just a net result from having a better quality education.

[LogicIsForSquares]

I don't think that people whose kids are grown or people who don't have kids should have to pay for the education of other people's children.

I would still volunteer to pay it because I don't want a gaggle of dumbshit kids wandering around my neighborhood who will grow up to be dumbshit adults.

[LogicIsForSquares]

Oh I completely understand that the unions are angry if charter schools get money and that means less revenue for public schools. Still at the end of the day the goal should be to educate children at a reasonable cost no matter where they go, no?

WSS

The kids are still being educated in their local district. The teachers unions don't have a leg to stand on. It is about having more money in the cookie jar for the teachers union and fear that the charter school kids will be outperforming the larger public schools.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I would still volunteer to pay it because I don't want a gaggle of dumbshit kids wandering around my neighborhood who will grow up to be dumbshit adults.

But you live in WV.......

[LogicIsForSquares]

But you live in WV.......

And they could still find a way to be dumber haha. There is a clear divide between "can read and do basic math" in the northern part of the state and "I speak with a series of clicks and grunts" in the southern part of this hell hole.

[LogicIsForSquares]

Wife took a job in Columbus so this nightmare will be over soon.

[Clevfan4life]

On the off-chance you're being serious I don't agree.

 

WSS

Ofc he's serious. U on the other hand actually scored points today in the game of life, congrats

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Wife took a job in Columbus so this nightmare will be over soon.

Columbus is nice. Only a 2 hour trip from Cleveland for when the Browns start playing good.

[Osiris]

I think the situation is very confusing because a quick google search will find many articles that either say charter schools are better or worse than public.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/charters-not-outperforming-nations-traditional-public-schools-report-says/2013/06/24/23f19bb8-dd0c-11e2-bd83-e99e43c336ed_story.html?utm_term=.1dad6269e5cf

 

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/knowledge-bank/2015/03/19/new-study-shows-charter-schools-making-a-difference-in-cities

 

The best I can make out is there is an argument that charter schools in urban areas do better than public schools in urban areas, while in suburban areas they do not.

[Westside Steve]

I think the situation is very confusing because a quick google search will find many articles that either say charter schools are better or worse than public.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/charters-not-outperforming-nations-traditional-public-schools-report-says/2013/06/24/23f19bb8-dd0c-11e2-bd83-e99e43c336ed_story.html?utm_term=.1dad6269e5cf

 

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/knowledge-bank/2015/03/19/new-study-shows-charter-schools-making-a-difference-in-cities

 

The best I can make out is there is an argument that charter schools in urban areas do better than public schools in urban areas, while in suburban areas they do not.

Well that underscores my opinion that it's the demographics that make schools better or worse.

I don't think training is much different whether you work at JFK or Solon.

Or whether you got your teaching degree from Bowling Green or Akron U.

 

And partially in the Innercity any parent who takes the trouble to send their child to a charter school obviously cares more than the average single teenage welfare mother in the hood. Or trailer park for that matter.

That just means the kid has a head start before he gets to the public or the charter school.

 

One thing I'm not sure of, but I could look up, is whether or not public schools are beginning to require master's degrees.

 

And yes Osiris you get a big difference among websites and I chalk that up to politics.

 

WSS

[Osiris]

Well that underscores my opinion that it's the demographics that make schools better or worse.

I don't think training is much different whether you work at JFK or Solon.

Or whether you got your teaching degree from Bowling Green or Akron U.

 

And partially in the Innercity any parent who takes the trouble to send their child to a charter school obviously cares more than the average single teenage welfare mother in the hood. Or trailer park for that matter.

That just means the kid has a head start before he gets to the public or the charter school.

 

One thing I'm not sure of, but I could look up, is whether or not public schools are beginning to require master's degrees.

 

And yes Osiris you get a big difference among websites and I chalk that up to politics.

 

WSS

 

I agree, demographics are a probably a big part of it. Ultimately I think its a decision best made at an extremely local level. Every town should do what is best for its demographic. My kid goes to a public STEAM school and he's flourishing there, so no complaints. I would not like to see funding taken away from it to support a charter school in our town. At the same time, it shouldn't keep kids in the inner-city from having a different type of school if it works better for them.

[Westside Steve]

 

I agree, demographics are a probably a big part of it. Ultimately I think its a decision best made at an extremely local level. Every town should do what is best for its demographic. My kid goes to a public STEAM school and he's flourishing there, so no complaints. I would not like to see funding taken away from it to support a charter school in our town. At the same time, it shouldn't keep kids in the inner-city from having a different type of school if it works better for them.

On the other hand taking money away from the inner city school to support A specialized STEM School...

 

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Kids should be required to work for their schooling.

[calfoxwc]

I love charter schools and home schooling, philosopically. Sure there are underperforming

charter and public schools. Our friend's kids in N.C. go to probably the best Christian

charter school in the state.

 

We are a free country - there isn't room for teacher's unions to acquire a monopolistic power

over our education system. Some want the power with the idea that they can socially engineer

in liberal fashion far more successfully if there weren't any charter schools and home schooling

was illegal. That German family that the obaMao bastards fight like hell to kick out of our country...

all they wanted was to home school their kids.

 

The teachers unions and liberal boards want to teach crossdressing, sex, and liberal viewpoints, etc... and

don't care about American history, patriotism for great reasons, math and science. Some of them want to teach

mmgw as abolute truth. It's like long term social engineering for some. They want to teach anti-gun ownership,

anti-Christianity, anti-family values.

 

That is what the anti-property tax battle is about. They don't have total power when they have to be held

accountable to the voters. If they could just get auto-funding from state and national levels, they can do and

be any damn thing they want to be, and nobody can stop them.

 

It's power they want. "they" referring to the haters of charter schools and homeschooling. Otherwise, there is

no reason to welcome competition for the kids' sakes. ALL KIDS deserve the very best education Americans

can give them. It's ulterior motives alone that cause liberals to fight things like charter schools, home schooling,

students praying by themselves, hunting tshirts, Christian tshirts, our Flag, patriotic American history.

Why would any school system not teach our Constitution, American history, but then teach about

only the bad things about our country's history? The left is going rabid in trying to enforce their liberal

slants on American kids. They can't get away with it much when there are alternatives to their schools

and how they stupidly run them.

 

The other point, is demographic. If you have good kids, why make them suffer because they have to attend

the local public school and be fighting to stay away from gangs, drugs, fights, etc? Parents MUST have

options.

[calfoxwc]

The intimidation of Christian kids in public schools. This should never have had to

been fought.

 

We won.

****************************

Liberty Counsel
Mathew Staver, Founder and Chairman

A three-year legal battle closes with a win. Liberty Counsel has successfully represented Child Evangelism Fellowship Good News Clubs against the anti-religious policies of the Cleveland Metropolitan School District (CMSD) elementary schools.

Please see my update on this latest victory below — Mat.

Local chapters of the Good News Club will reopen in the Cleveland Metropolitan School District (CMSD) elementary schools on February 2 now that the school district has changed its policy to ensure that religious groups, such as Child Evangelism Fellowship (CEF), receive the same access and benefits to public facilities as non-religious groups.

The school district was previously providing free after-school access to non-religious community groups, such as the Boy Scouts, but imposed facility fees on CEF, resulting in the shutdown of its after-school, Christian character-education Good News Clubs.

In 2013, Liberty Counsel filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of CEF, seeking equal access to the public school facilities for Good News Clubs. Child Evangelism Fellowship won the three-year lawsuit. An Ohio federal district court found that CMSD violated CEF's constitutional rights and required the school district to change its facility use policies and pay $150,000 in damages and attorney's fees.

We celebrate the reopening of the Good News Clubs in the Cleveland Metropolitan School District. It's been a three-year ordeal, but this victory for equal access, our Constitution, and Child Evangelism Fellowship is worth it.

+ + This is the second victory for Liberty Counsel and CEF in recent days.

CEF's after-school Good News Club can also now continue to distribute promotional flyers to K-5 students in the Cascade School District in Washington State.

The Cascade School District prohibited distribution of "religious" flyers, stating it was a violation of Cascade School Board Policy. However, other nonprofit youth organizations such as Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, Campfire Girls, YMCA, and YWCA were permitted to distribute flyers to K-5 students in the district.

After Liberty Counsel contacted the school superintendent, the Cascade School District reversed the previous directive and now allows the Good News Clubs to distribute flyers to the students. The school board also has eliminated their unconstitutional policy.

Public schools cannot discriminate against Christian viewpoints and allow other organizations to promote their materials.

Liberty Counsel is proud to represent Child Evangelism Fellowship nationally and we have never lost a case regarding the Good News Clubs. Our defense of CEF can only take place because you make it happen. Without you, Good News Clubs and all Christian youth organizations meeting in public facilities could face discriminatory practices, as school systems quite often choose to surrender to aggressive anti-religion groups.

Today when many public schools have become breeding grounds for religious intolerance, avenues for leftist indoctrination, and forums for transforming young people's cultural and moral standards, Child Evangelism Fellowship gives children a spiritual education while developing good moral character. More than 87 percent of school administrators say the Good News Clubs are a positive experience for their school.

We must continue demanding that our fundamental liberties be fully honored in government-controlled public schools – and stopping the Orwellian tactics leftists and pro-homosexual activists are using to undermine our values in tax-funded classrooms.

Liberty Counsel has long been on the forefront of defending religious liberty in the public schools.

God bless you as you help take back our tax-funded schools!

Mat

[MLD Woody]

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[Westside Steve]

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WSS