The Gipper Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Is it fair to say that the AFC has a Dearth of quality QBs (compared to the NFC) Sure, there is one of the GOATs....Brady, and another HOFer: BR. And...is Rivers actually a bit overrated? I actually think so a bit. Plus you got one borderline top QB: Flacco. You have a couple/three of, I think, still unproven up and comers: Carr, Mariota, Luck But there is a lot of average or below in my view: Alex Smith, Dalton, Tannehill, Bortles, Whoever Denver has, Brockweiler, Whatever the Jets have, Whatever the Bills have, Whatever the Browns have at this point. And next year, Brady will be 40, Rivers and BR 36. Can those 3 maintain their edge with age? You have about half of the AFC that can use a turnover at the QB spot. And sure, not every team can have an "elite" QB. Maybe only 3-4 of them at most. What do these half dozen beggars (not just Browns) do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 All pretty true. I think Luck and Bortles would be better with a good/great team....but wouldn't we all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 I think if you ask fans of the Colts, Titans and Raiders about their QB they'd give you move than 'unproven' But I do agree generally, the AFC is weak. So to your point: Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Chargers, Titans, Colts, & Raiders - set with their franchise QBs. Maybe looking for the next guy (hello Chargers) but for the upcoming season, those guys could be pro-bowl level. Bengals and Chiefs are kind of in the same boat in that they have the 'entry level franchise QB' - Dalton and Smith won't stop you getting to the playoffs, but won't help you much once there. They'll be permanently on the lookout for the next guy if the money is right, like a Russell Wilson, too-good-to-pass-up kind of deal in the third round, maybe higher, but it won't be a priority. Broncos drafted Paxton Lynch in the first round. While he may not be the starter right now, he's presumably being groomed for that role in 2017 or 2018. Dolphins, Texans and Jags - have invested too much to give up on Tannehill, Brockweile & Bortles, though possibly they should. Tannehill has been better this year, and they'll probably roll with him another season or two. Jags have to hope Bortles can produce TDs like in 2015 to compensate for his INTs or they'll be sliding into the next group. And Brock has been horrible, but he'll get another year. It was essentially his rookie year, as a starter. side note: I hope if we trade for Jimmy G or McCarron or someone they don't have the same issue as Brock... Browns, Jets, Bills - a whole lot of not much. Kessler/RG3, Taylor/Cardale Jones, Hackenburg/Beardpatrick/Petty. These are the teams that really need an upgrade at QB before they can look at the playoffs. It could be signing a FA, drafting a guy, trading for a guy, getting someone from Canada...whatever, but it needs to be done, and soon. Of the three the Bills are in the best shape but not by much. The rest of their squad isn't up to much either, while the Jets may have a fearsome DL, but they're in salary cap hell and someone is going to miss out (Sheldon Richardson it seems). The browns, come may, might just have the best roster of those three teams if they draft well, and be in a position in 2018 to get a QB to lead them to victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 I think if you ask fans of the Colts, Titans and Raiders about their QB they'd give you move than 'unproven' I guess by this I mean that you cannot yet put them into the "elite" or "near elite" category just yet. Not like a few other QBs. But I do agree generally, the AFC is weak. So to your point: Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Chargers, Titans, Colts, & Raiders - set with their franchise QBs. Maybe looking for the next guy (hello Chargers) but for the upcoming season, those guys could be pro-bowl level. Part of my point is that though the Ravens, Pats and Steelers do have obviously proven QBs, they are all +35 and will soon be replaced. And who is out there to replace them in that "elite" group. Sure, there are candidates: Luck/Mariota/Carr. But they are not there yet. Bengals and Chiefs are kind of in the same boat in that they have the 'entry level franchise QB' - Dalton and Smith won't stop you getting to the playoffs, but won't help you much once there. They'll be permanently on the lookout for the next guy if the money is right, like a Russell Wilson, too-good-to-pass-up kind of deal in the third round, maybe higher, but it won't be a priority. Broncos drafted Paxton Lynch in the first round. While he may not be the starter right now, he's presumably being groomed for that role in 2017 or 2018. Well, a number of teams have young QBs that may be grooomed. Dolphins, Texans and Jags - have invested too much to give up on Tannehill, Brockweile & Bortles, though possibly they should. Tannehill has been better this year, and they'll probably roll with him another season or two. Jags have to hope Bortles can produce TDs like in 2015 to compensate for his INTs or they'll be sliding into the next group. And Brock has been horrible, but he'll get another year. It was essentially his rookie year, as a starter. side note: I hope if we trade for Jimmy G or McCarron or someone they don't have the same issue as Brock... Browns, Jets, Bills - a whole lot of not much. Kessler/RG3, Taylor/Cardale Jones, Hackenburg/Beardpatrick/Petty. These are the teams that really need an upgrade at QB before they can look at the playoffs. It could be signing a FA, drafting a guy, trading for a guy, getting someone from Canada...whatever, but it needs to be done, and soon. Of the three the Bills are in the best shape but not by much. The rest of their squad isn't up to much either, while the Jets may have a fearsome DL, but they're in salary cap hell and someone is going to miss out (Sheldon Richardson it seems). The browns, come may, might just have the best roster of those three teams if they draft well, and be in a position in 2018 to get a QB to lead them to victory. Are any of those guys the true future of those teams? It has been hard for these teams to get a "real" guy. Browns not since Bernie. Bills not since Kelly. Jets not since...???? But a couple of them are in position to try to get a guy. Of course, Browns are in best position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 I think it's fair to say that the rise of the college spread offense is the main reason behind this. The big question is how does the NFL adapt? It seems it has yet to. I think this is why a developmental league/farm system makes sense. Allow teams to groom players for the pros without having to compromise their ability to put their best 53 men out there on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Luck is unproven? Kid took his team to the playoffs as a rookie, has played behind one of the worst olines in the NFL coupled with one of the worst running games and TY Hilton as his only real weapon. Luck would be great if not for what Indy has given him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 I think it's fair to say that the rise of the college spread offense is the main reason behind this. The big question is how does the NFL adapt? It seems it has yet to. I think this is why a developmental league/farm system makes sense. Allow teams to groom players for the pros without having to compromise their ability to put their best 53 men out there on Sunday. Well, you had that with NFL Europe, but apparently it wasn't making money for the NFL owners. All they wanted was something that would be a cash machine. They gave it up because of not enough cash. But, you are right....a "minor league" I think would be good. And I have a good idea for it: Form a minor/developmental league of like 8 team that would play in the small, original NFL cities, like these: The Canton Bulldogs (signature franchise, playing Fawcett Stadium, next door to PFHOF) The Dayton Triangles The Duluth Kelleys The Pottsville Maroons The Rock Island Independents The Hartford Blues The Racine Legion The Staten Island Stapletons Play maybe a 10 game season, starting in early December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Luck is unproven? Kid took his team to the playoffs as a rookie, has played behind one of the worst olines in the NFL coupled with one of the worst running games and TY Hilton as his only real weapon. Luck would be great if not for what Indy has given him. I think it may be appropriate to put him in a "not yet elite" category. Maybe "unproven" is not the right term. But isn't it fair to say that if Luck is to have an Elway/Marino/Kelly/Peyton.....Brees/BR/Brady/ etc. etc. type career that he has a lot of work to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 I think it may be appropriate to put him in a "not yet elite" category. Maybe "unproven" is not the right term. But isn't it fair to say that if Luck is to have an Elway/Marino/Kelly/Peyton.....Brees/BR/Brady/ etc. etc. type career that he has a lot of work to do?It isn't all about rings. Luck is elite and it's his shitty luck he hasn't had a team around him. Since him their first rounders have been Bjorn werner (most recently cut by the jags), traded for Trent Richardson, Philip Dorset, a receiver with 750 yards over two seasons and 26 games, and finally, a center, who isn't terrible. The colts have been browns level bad at drafting, they just have an elite QB to cover over the cracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 It isn't all about rings. Luck is elite and it's his shitty luck he hasn't had a team around him. Since him their first rounders have been Bjorn werner (most recently cut by the jags), traded for Trent Richardson, Philip Dorset, a receiver with 750 yards over two seasons and 26 games, and finally, a center, who isn't terrible. The colts have been browns level bad at drafting, they just have an elite QB to cover over the cracks. I didn't say it had to be about rings. Notice that two of the 4 examples I used never won a ring (Marino/Kelly). But, it is about sustained success. Which Luck has not had.....and, yes, a lot of that is attributable to the poor team around him. But that CAN keep you from being thought of as elite. Common example used: Many people who observed both thought that Archie Manning may have been the equal or superior QB than Terry Bradshaw, both drafted within a year of each other. But Archie had the terrible team around him and Bradshaw the opposite. He had one of the strongest supporting casts ever. But TB went into the HOF, Archie got squadoosh. So, your peers...and history may very well judge you by the team around you. Will Luck turn out to be a Bradshaw....or an Archie Manning. (also see Bert Jones). So far, it may be the latter. Well respected, but not elite level. It may not be fair, but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Luck has shown some warts, but Indy is a clusterfuck of a franchise. They have not figured out how to build around him and we had one of their 1st round picks as proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Well, you had that with NFL Europe, but apparently it wasn't making money for the NFL owners. All they wanted was something that would be a cash machine. They gave it up because of not enough cash. But, you are right....a "minor league" I think would be good. They have a really good one now plays on Tuesdays through Saturdays all season long and it's essentially FREE called the NCAA football game. And I have a good idea for it: Form a minor/developmental league of like 8 team that would play in the small, original NFL cities, like these: The Canton Bulldogs (signature franchise, playing Fawcett Stadium, next door to PFHOF) The Dayton Triangles The Duluth Kelleys The Pottsville Maroons The Rock Island Independents The Hartford Blues The Racine Legion The Staten Island Stapletons Play maybe a 10 game season, starting in early December. Isn't that still back when they thought the earth was flat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Luck has shown some warts, but Indy is a clusterfuck of a franchise. They have not figured out how to build around him and we had one of their 1st round picks as proof. The first step for that to happen is to relieve Pagano of his duties as a Head Coach and hire someone from an offensive background and build a solid QB room for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 They have a really good one now plays on Tuesdays through Saturdays all season long and it's essentially FREE called the NCAA football game. Isn't that still back when they thought the earth was flat? If you were from Pittsburgh, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 The first step for that to happen is to relieve Pagano of his duties as a Head Coach and hire someone from an offensive background and build a solid QB room for him. Or, to get rid of the GM who got fuck all to go along with that QB....which is what they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 The first step for that to happen is to relieve Pagano of his duties as a Head Coach and hire someone from an offensive background and build a solid QB room for him. I believe as I was typing my thoughts the Colts chose a slightly different path... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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