Manny Ramirez SUSPENDED 50 Games - Performance Enhancers

[Flugel]

Terrific post Tom. We've gone down this road for nearly a decade in various formats so while I applaud you for your inclusiveness, allow me to tell the naive to blow it out their ass when they continue to wag their finger at MLB while supporting the NFL. I get why those people prefer one sport to the other, but they're lying their sweet ass off if they point to PEDs as a bullet point.

 

This was hardly a dark day for baseball. Sucked ass for my fantasy team, but not for the sport. Simply validated testing.

 

Beanpot

 

Thanks Beans! I know you LOVE baseball the way I love football so I know you're hoping MLB continues the recent efforts and strides they are making. I think they're going in a much better direction. And just remember, we're NEVER going to lose the guys that WANT it so bad they'll work their tails off the RIGHT way to be as good as HUMANLY possible. Key word in that sentence is "humanly."

 

The NEXT message all sports need to send is that those getting caught cheating need to LOSE a considerable portion of salary BEYOND the games missed due to suspension.

 

There's ALWAYS going to be guys that WANT to cheat one way or another to gain an edge. Doing the RIGHT thing up at the TOP of each professional league will have a good trickle down effect. Modernized testing can detect ALOT of today's drugs of choice. However, if the message is clearly sent that this LEAGUE does not want to exchange greed (keeping testing costs low in relation to profit margins) for what is right - this is what we call an ENABLING FACTOR. Enabling factors superceed all other variables whether we like it or not. Mankind has pushed the borders of right and wrong since the Gqarden of Eden if I summarized the forbidden fruit story correctly. Like Beans alluded to, throw in $22 million and WHO is thinking about Heaven in the afterlife when they grew up piss poor in this life? THAT is what I want removed.

 

I worked in Tampa Bay's weight room part time when I was a Coporate Fitness Manager for Xerox in the late 90s. More specifically, I was sked to witness a random drug test involving 3 guys. 2 of them never made the final roster if we want to get a sense of how comprehensive it all is.

 

What ALOT of people don't realize is that MANY players make themselves HUGE abusers all the way until they get that dream signing bonus. And then the team that paid it ponders - what happened? We've seen this free agents that disappeared into the sunset quietly and highly sought rookie hopefuls. Tony Mandarach had to QUIT juicing because his LIVER was failing and on it's way out. Green Bay got a enormous pick that was supposed to dominate people. By the time football season rolled around he was so sick from his steroid abuse - he barely made the team as he was going through batteries of health assessments. That said, GB paid an HUGE signing bonus. Then there's the TO's of the league that suffer the mental/emotional rollercoasters of unpredictability and unreliability. Out of nowhere this guy becomes an elite receiver when he was once only good enough to play ball at Chattanoogoa - where they turn out LESS pros than Division II/III Texas Kingsville. In an era of salary cap and outrageous signing bonuses, season ticket prices and the prognosis for team success centers around WHO is getting these signign bonuses.

 

ALL sports CAN clean it up considerably if they fork out the dollars. I HATE this feeling but sometimes when I see a guy I thought was Superman dying anywhere from mid 30s up until 50th birthdays - I can't help but wonder was this a NATURAL athlete? These MAJOR sports never sucked before the steroids invasion. In fact, I think the tackling and pitching was BETTER before the cheating was allowed to get so widespread. It's all about the enabling factors folks.

- Tom F. (If the Rocky story had steroids in it - there's ONLY 1 state in this country that would have still deemed him the ultimate hero. Look no further than where it was filmed)

[Flugel]

Good points but steroids are a whole other level as far as drugs go, they really do make a huge difference.

 

Riff, since everybody's DNA is different, which also means their thinking patterns are different, which also means their approaches are different - the cost/effect relationship is VERY unpredictable. Some guys get severe side effects. Some guys suffer emotional rollercoasters (Ryan Tucker, Terry Long, Greg Lloyd) and some guys get lucky. There's all sorts variables leading to all sorts of consequences. Unfortunately, an uneducated meathead can end up dead. Even worse, when YOUNG kids want to be the next Shawn Merriman or Arod - chances are they aren't any better educated than a meathead that ends up dead.

 

Not everyone can go Arnold Schwartzeneggar for a signigicant number of years juicing without consequences. Classic examples are Mr Olympiamns that came AFTER Arnold suffering life threatening consequences that ended bodybuilding careers prematurely.

 

For every Tony Mandarach who re-enters the human race via a failing liver - there's ALWAYS going to be a Shawn Merriman who prolly can abuse steroids as long as Arnold did. Worth noting here, Mandarach CLEANED up his habits and RE-ENTERED the NFL as an Indy Colt where he became an OG with average skills. He was NEVER thought of as elite caliber again but the GOOD in this was he was STILL good enough to START if he was willing to do what REAL blue collar types do. That is REFUSING shortcuts in lieu of good ole fashion hard work.

 

I'll remember this until the day I die. In the early 80s, our local gym had a HUGE steroids guy name Jimmy who worked out with his black market scientist Joe. He was REALLY funny and likable and paranoid so we busted his balls alot. I was in the pre-launch/pre-stench sequence of taking a dump in the bathroom and I heard Jimmy in a loud whisper from his urinal to his buddy shaving at the sink:

 

Jimmy: "HEY JOE, JOE, JOE - I'M BLEEDING. PISSIN BLOOD HORSE!"

Joe: "That's okay Jimmy, it doesn't hurt does it?"

Jimmy: "No, we're good!"

Joe: "Thatta boy! No pain - no thang. Candyasses don't win bench press competitions."

 

As the soothesayer above said, Jimmy went on to win a local bench press competition because he was allowed to.

- Tom F. (The REASON I always admired PRO sports was because these were supposed to be elite performers that could do the things that other average Joes and wannabees like me could ONLY appreciate. If I find out they're ALL cheating to be what I couldn't be - it's going to take a serious bite out of how much I appreciate it all)

[Beanpot]

I'll try out that copy & paste thing again

 

Wonderful. Next time go the extra mile and add a link to what you copy and paste. It's simple courtesy.

 

As for your link to a dogstreetjournal article from 5 years ago, the only words that come to mind are "you have got to be xxxxing kidding me."

 

Look, if you're in your infancy of this discussion (which you clearly are, given that source) I strongly recommend you dig a bit deeper. The discussion has evolved into all sorts of xxxxedupedness from supporters and detractors, but the one rallying point is that your copy and paste brilliance is nothing more than dated ignorance.

 

I'm serious when I say that the entire topic is a bore and that there are no winners. It's folly to blame anyone other than Rose for his banishment, but the effort to do just that is numbing.

 

We're having a fun discussion about the topic on the link below (warning - your belief that Bud Selig is the reason why Rose isn't in the HOF may be met with blank stares, given the idiocy behind that opinion - no offense)

 

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/05/14...structing-pete/

 

Beanpot

[Beanpot]

Thanks Beans! I know you LOVE baseball the way I love football so I know you're hoping MLB continues the recent efforts and strides they are making. I think they're going in a much better direction. And just remember, we're NEVER going to lose the guys that WANT it so bad they'll work their tails off the RIGHT way to be as good as HUMANLY possible. Key word in that sentence is "humanly."

 

Amen.

 

Beanpot

[Beanpot]

Damn, there's a filter in place here. When did that happen? All of the xxxxxx's in my posts were filthy words. Imagine away!

 

Beanpot

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

Look I agree with pretty much every opinion you have when talking baseball and I'm sure you have much more baseball knowledge than I. With that said I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. True Rose was the one who bet on baseball, true he's an arrogant SOB but theres many people in the HOF who are not liked; many cheaters, racists, murders and so on. In my opinion If Bud Selig would've reinstated Rose he would be in the HOF. To me thats Selig keeping him outta the HOF. I understand if you dont agree with that, thats your opinion; but when you respond to me you can show a little respect. I've never attacked you or anyone on this board and I would expect the same in return.

[Beanpot]

when you respond to me you can show a little respect. I've never attacked you or anyone on this board and I would expect the same in return.

 

Oh bite me.

 

Seriously, if I knew how to work the emoticons I'd have a smiley face right here.

 

I respect the hell out of you. You're willing to argue about effing baseball. That earns you some mad cred (however the kids say it) and I wish there were more out there like you.

 

So we disagree about Rose. Doesn't mean I think you're an idiot. Way WAY far from it. Hell, you've taken the time to post stuff from Castro on the Tribe Board. I should be licking your feet for that.

 

Bottom line is that I DO respect your opinions and thank you for your contributions. It's just that I enjoy going toe to toe with a fellow baseball fan. I'll do some work on the "do not demean an adversary" part.

 

Wish me luck on that.

 

Beanpot