TexasAg1969 Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 OK a few from sources: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2017/04/29/nfl-draft-team-grades-2017-best-worst-classes-picks/101083944/ https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/04/29/nfl-draft-grades-team-picks-results-analysis http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000804541/article/2017-nfl-draft-quicksnap-grades-for-all-32-teams http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2017/04/29/nfl-draft-grades-full-analysis-of-every-teams-2017-class/ http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2017/04/29/nfl-draft-grades-full-analysis-of-every-teams-2017-class/ http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/priscos-nfl-draft-grades-for-all-32-teams-five-earn-as-two-fall-short-with-ds/ Walter Football by player and then a team grade-have to click through it. http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftgrades.php Interesting comments on the K from Walterfootball: Cleveland Browns: Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State: B+ Grade For those who know little about Zane Gonzalez, the Arizona State kicker drilled seven of his nine attempts from beyond 50 in 2016. The Browns would've won two games had they owned a better kicker, so Gonzalez will surely be an upgrade. Also: "The Browns did a very good job overall with their draft. It wasn't great, but I think a B+ suffices. The Browns getting a B+ grade for anything is like winning a Super Bowl, so congratulations, Cleveland! I look forward to the parade." EDIT: And an A+ from foxsports: http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/nfl-draft-grades-2017-final-teams-cowboys-bears-giants-steelers-how-did-your-team-do-042917 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 I suppose you think I hate Garrett because he's from Texas, and Peppers because he went to Michigan? Bite me. Wasn't bitching about the first three selections. Us old guys know crap when we see it, and until he improves 500% Kizer is crap. He's nowhere on the anal- litics scale, so why the hell did they draft hm- huh? I'm not going to rehash all the reasons why I think he's a piss poor pick, so go look up my comments in other threads. If you think I'm down on Kizer because he's not Trubisky? You're full of shit. I understand enough of the game to know Kizer needs a ton of work to be worth a damn. Watched some of Gruden's qb camp, and even my untrained eye caught mechanical stuff that is piss poor, and directly affects his accuracy. Or do you want to tell me 58% completion percentage in today's modern age of qbs is f**king great? On field flaws aside. He interviews like a robot- a smart one. Little wonder the Harvard Geek Squad loves him- he communicates on their level. Doubt like hell those fatass OL guys with 80 IQs protecting him are going to relate to him though. Has all the personality of a dead fish. I seriously doubt he has the people skills to be a team leader. Trust me, if you're looking for "the face of the franchise" Deshone ain't it. The only way he's going to win people over is win games, and 4-8 at Notre Dame tells me he can't elevate inferior talent. There are certain things about a QB that are either impossible or hard to change like height and arm strength and athleticism. He is all set there which is why he has the highest ceiling of anyone in this draft. I don't knock you for being critical of his mechanics and leadership skills but both of those things are teachable. It will be the coaches job to fix the mechanics and I have personally seen leadership emerge in people who previously appeared to have none once their circumstances changed. Give the guy a chance, and if it doesn't pan out, like you said, we've got 2018. And from a practical standpoint I also think the Browns would've traded for 5 to grab Trubisky if he were available and I also think KC leap-frogged the Browns to get Mahomes because the Browns were going to take him at 12. This explains the inexpensive trade down where I also think they could've gotten more, but they just took what they could get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 People here are negative because they are old, dumb, and don't understand a fucking thing about the game. This board is just mainly a bunch of old fogeys bitching at each other about how every player here should be a white guy from Cleveland LOL! I didn't want either of the QBs from Ohio black or white. In fact I didn't want any QB in this class at all. Just never saw anything that screamed "franchise", only "desperatin". Yeah he was a value pick, just not for my value. I'd have gone another great defensive player right there and used next year's picks to find the franchise QB. I am an old bastard, but I also clearly see what I do and don't want for a QB and he is in next year's class. Every team taking a QB this year where they did in rounds 1 & 2 reached, including the Browns IMO. They were all artificially moved up the board from start to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 "you pick a qb every year until you find the guy" "What the fuck why would the browns pick the biggest most physically gifted qb in the class? Morons. Worst draft ever!" - the browns board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 I need to keep reminding myself that this Board isn't a representative sample of all Browns fans because if it were I'd be clinically depressed. For someone not "in the area" can you expand on the differences you see? Other than the folks here obsessing more than and spending more time on football than the average Browns' fan, I'm at a loss. Could also have selected Howard at 12 and Peppers at 33. Don't forget... Peppers in the 1st gives us an added year to figure out where to play him... Watched some of Gruden's qb camp, and even my untrained eye caught mechanical stuff that is piss poor, and directly affects his accuracy. Or do you want to tell me 58% completion percentage in today's modern age of qbs is f**king great? On field flaws aside. He interviews like a robot- a smart one. Little wonder the Harvard Geek Squad loves him- he communicates on their level. Doubt like hell those fatass OL guys with 80 IQs protecting him are going to relate to him though. Has all the personality of a dead fish. I seriously doubt he has the people skills to be a team leader. Trust me, if you're looking for "the face of the franchise" Deshone ain't it. The only way he's going to win people over is win games, and 4-8 at Notre Dame tells me he can't elevate inferior talent. That "talent" at ND in 2016 could not have been elevated with an OTIS... And if 58% is below your threshold, how 'bout 62%? With a > 2:1 TD/INT ratio? As for Kizer's mechanics... please share details... I'm sure DeShone would love the input. A link to a prior, more expansive post you've made will do just fine. I watched his entire Gruden episode. Showed me a quiet leadership quality that I found reassuring. As for IQ... I doubt he's going to talk over Joe T's head. In spite of your protestations, you are coming off like you simply don't want to like the guy, h. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 For someone not "in the area" can you expand on the differences you see? Other than the folks here obsessing more than and spending more time on football than the average Browns' fan, I'm at a loss. Don't forget... Peppers in the 1st gives us an added year to figure out where to play him... That "talent" at ND in 2016 could not have been elevated with an OTIS... And if 58% is below your threshold, how 'bout 62%? With a > 2:1 TD/INT ratio? As for Kizer's mechanics... please share details... I'm sure DeShone would love the input. A link to a prior, more expansive post you've made will do just fine. I watched his entire Gruden episode. Showed me a quiet leadership quality that I found reassuring. As for IQ... I doubt he's going to talk over Joe T's head. In spite of your protestations, you are coming off like you simply don't want to like the guy, h. Well said! This poor kid is headed for the same Colt McCoy welcome that brought the Hatfields and Hatefields out of the woodwork. The only thing missing if he gets knocked unconscious is a coach like Pat Shurmur putting him back in the game just 1 or 2 plays later. How come the only guy on the planet that didn't see or hear that knockout collision was the guy on our sidelines we were counting on to call our plays? And I used to think the Exorcist was scary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Well said! This poor kid is headed for the same Colt McCoy welcome that brought the Hatfields and Hatefields out of the woodwork. The only thing missing if he gets knocked unconscious is a coach like Pat Shurmur putting him back in the game just 1 or 2 plays later. How come the only guy on the planet that didn't see or hear that knockout collision was the guy on our sidelines we were counting on to call our plays? And I used to think the Exorcist was scary... Kizer is in for a rough road....as are all Browns QB's.....which is a bit of a concern because(by his own admission) he doesnt(didnt) handle competition well and loses focus when it's there.... So...if he's looking over his shoulder and is forced to compete with Kessler and the ostrich....it may be a real struggle for him and deter his development...and he might fold..... So...big body...big arm....but can he handle the big stage?....cause he struggled with it at ND.... Best case scenario?......Kessler looks better this year, gets an OL to protect him and just owns the job....while Kizer and the ostrich watch.... Then....next year.....we draft safety - linebacker - CB....cause we dont need no stinking QB's..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Kizer is in for a rough road....as are all Browns QB's.....which is a bit of a concern because(by his own admission) he doesnt(didnt) handle competition well and loses focus when it's there.... So...if he's looking over his shoulder and is forced to compete with Kessler and the ostrich....it may be a real struggle for him and deter his development...and he might fold..... So...big body...big arm....but can he handle the big stage?....cause he struggled with it at ND.... Best case scenario?......Kessler looks better this year, gets an OL to protect him and just owns the job....while Kizer and the ostrich watch.... Then....next year.....we draft safety - linebacker - CB....cause we dont need no stinking QB's..... First... no way are we out of the QB market next year... Sashi has already assigned someone to "leak" that to MKC starting Monday. Second... when you come in as the #3, there's no one to look over your shoulder for. Seriously... it's easier to compete from behind and as you gain ground confidence swells. Here's to Kess and/or the Ostrich staying healthy for 16... even tho they'll hopefully sit after 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 First... no way are we out of the QB market next year... Sashi has already assigned someone to "leak" that to MKC starting Monday. Second... when you come in as the #3, there's no one to look over your shoulder for. Something tells me he doesnt see himself as #3.....and might expect "limited" competition from Kessler.....And when he realizes he actually IS #3, it'll be an issue for him....hope he steps up and takes the bull by the horns, etc etc etc.....but, his history suggests that he presses in these situations instead... Seriously... it's easier to compete from behind and as you gain ground confidence swells. Here's to Kess and/or the Ostrich staying healthy for 16... even tho they'll hopefully sit after 12. As long as you're gaining ground....but, my concern is when he gets knocked down(repeatedly)...how well does he spring back? In other news.....those last 4 games will be much too important to turn em over to a rookie..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 You may have to wait a lot longer than a season to see how a player pans out. I believe the grades are based on things like if a team has filled its needs, how many highly ranked players a team acquires, and "steals" of the draft. Yes. Of course. The Browns did fill a lot of needs....but then they have "filled needs" in the past with a lot of failed players. I won't go through that litany here. And they also got a number of "steals" if by steals you mean something like "player X was listed as the 95th best overall prospect, and the Browns took him with pick #150" ....that sort of thing. And just like anything else, these "steals" could be fools gold as well. Yes, more than a year is needed. Evaluations are still out on players drafted last year, and the year before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Which makes me wonder why so many people here are negative on the draft. Damaged goods from all the years of suck? Do you blame us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 People here are negative because they are old, dumb, and don't understand a fucking thing about the game. This board is just mainly a bunch of old fogeys bitching at each other about how every player here should be a white guy from Cleveland And there are the "young dumbasses" who know even less....and who see race in everything. Because they are young and dumb....lacking in experience and intellect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 First... no way are we out of the QB market next year... Sashi has already assigned someone to "leak" that to MKC starting Monday. Second... when you come in as the #3, there's no one to look over your shoulder for. Seriously... it's easier to compete from behind and as you gain ground confidence swells. Here's to Kess and/or the Ostrich staying healthy for 16... even tho they'll hopefully sit after 12. Well, if we still do not believe we have found the right guy, then sure,...we should still be in the market next year. But, could we turn into the Jets? Take a 2d rounder at QB...then shy away from taking a QB the next year? I heard lots and lots of people on ESPN and other networks say that as Jet fans they felt that the Jets should absolutely take Watson if he is there at #6. Well, he was there, and they didn't take him. They seemed to shy away. Could the Browns do that next year? Shy away because they think, maybe, possibly they have their guy sitting on the bench that they took in round two the previous year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Its a bit of a paradox with Kizer and picking a QB next year....ala.....if we can, we will let him sit the whole season and force the issue with him.....allowing Kessler to continue where he left off and preventing Kizer from being pushed... But....if we dont play him, then we wont know if we've filled the void.....so, do we draft when he hasnt played yet....or do we force him to show up his first year and risk his development...just so we'll know what to do next year?.... Or does Cody Kessler take over the world and Cleveland....making it all mute?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 How many years have the Browns got an awesome grade for the draft then it doesn't pan out? You guys are jinxing it. Shhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Suck it up already, sissy I'll say it for the last time TC. I AM SO OVER US NOT DRAFTING TRUBISKY. That doesn't preclude me not loving every stinking pick we made. If you want to give Kizer love, great. Time will tell if he's the right pick or not- huh? Maybe he'll surprise the shit out of me and have a Joe Montana level career. That would be great if it happens. So, exxxccccuuuusssseee me if I'm not seeing it- yet. I'm entitled to my opinion. People here are negative because they are old, dumb, and don't understand a fucking thing about the game. This board is just mainly a bunch of old fogeys bitching at each other about how every player here should be a white guy from Cleveland Still not getting it I see. Hated the Quinn pick- white guy from Ohio. I've heaped praise on Myles Garrett, changed my mind and said we should draft him first instead of Mitch, and let the cards fall where they may. I've warmed up to Dr Peppers too. Take off the race blinders pal- I had a black room mate when I got out of school- a pretty cool dude. I don't give a crap if they're white, black, yellow, or green if they came from Mars- as long as they can play at a high level. One of my favorite players on the Browns is Joe Haden- so take that race card and shove it. BTW- Some of us are negative because we're tired of watching the Browns play like clowns virtually uninterrupted since- like forever. It's a real good way to drain the optimism out of you and turn you into a first class cynic. Yup some of us oldsters happen to remember the 60s when the Browns were consistently good. As I said a bunch of times last year- I've adopted the Missouri motto. SHOW ME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 I never called Gip a racist, I never called Hoorta a racist. you and die hard are the only regular posters here who are clearly racist. Die hard is open about it while you just fall back on innuendo and coded racism, but that shouldn't surprise anyone. You've time and time again exposed yourself as a bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC mike Posted April 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 What took you so long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Its a bit of a paradox with Kizer and picking a QB next year....ala.....if we can, we will let him sit the whole season and force the issue with him.....allowing Kessler to continue where he left off and preventing Kizer from being pushed... But....if we dont play him, then we wont know if we've filled the void.....so, do we draft when he hasnt played yet....or do we force him to show up his first year and risk his development...just so we'll know what to do next year?.... Or does Cody Kessler take over the world and Cleveland....making it all mute?..... Agree. A major dilemma. That is why I fear that the Browns may shy away from making a QB move next year, even if it seems by all account that they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Its a bit of a paradox with Kizer and picking a QB next year....ala.....if we can, we will let him sit the whole season and force the issue with him.....allowing Kessler to continue where he left off and preventing Kizer from being pushed... But....if we dont play him, then we wont know if we've filled the void.....so, do we draft when he hasnt played yet....or do we force him to show up his first year and risk his development...just so we'll know what to do next year?.... Or does Cody Kessler take over the world and Cleveland....making it all mute?..... ... but I don't wanna be a "mute"... Only shot I see of evaluating Kizer's progress and potential without regular season starts would be if we go into the season minus one of what I presume will be our top two, Kess and Brock. Just not enough practice reps for three. And even then... But were he not to play, then yes, we're in the "market", especially if the other pieces are gelling... and we're not mute... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Its a bit of a paradox with Kizer and picking a QB next year....ala.....if we can, we will let him sit the whole season and force the issue with him.....allowing Kessler to continue where he left off and preventing Kizer from being pushed... But....if we dont play him, then we wont know if we've filled the void.....so, do we draft when he hasnt played yet....or do we force him to show up his first year and risk his development...just so we'll know what to do next year?.... Or does Cody Kessler take over the world and Cleveland....making it all mute?..... I don't get it either. I think you should only have one developmental QB at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Clearly the jury is still out deliberating. To say its good or bad is speculation and to argue is moot because you guys don't know. If you knew you would be working for an NFL franchise; not hustling money trying to blow someone behind a garbage dumpster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Myles may get a revenge shot now that Dan Skipper LT Arkansas has signed with Dallas. Skipper is the one that caused the high ankle sprain that bugged him the rest of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 To say its good or bad is speculation and to argue is moot because you guys don't know. Lemme guess... Philosophy major? If we all knew, Socrates, then there'd be nothing to discuss, unless we were into mutually congratulatory circle jerks. If I want that, I can unmute Cartman and follow him and his band of merry men. Here's how it works... when you don't know the future, you look at the past and present for all the information you can and have time to digest. Then you form an opinion of the basis of the digested info... call it a hypothesis, if you like. Then you share that opinion with others and they poke and prod at it... sometimes they punch a hole in it... sometimes they agree with it wholeheartedly... sometimes they say, "Yes, and..." and build on it, making it better. It's a lot more fun than sitting around for the future to become the present and then saying, "I did not know that yesterday, but had I thought a little bit about, I might have thought it likely." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Peppers would have been gone by 33, FYI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Peppers would have been gone by 33, FYI A team said that they were looking to draft Peppers late first? Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 I don't get it either. I think you should only have one developmental QB at a time. Instead of the 4 that we do have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Instead of the 4 that we do have? When you have a lousy OL and running game, throw in uncertain receivers you need more fresh meat to throw into the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 When you have a lousy OL and running game, throw in uncertain receivers you need more fresh meat to throw into the fire. I fully expected them to also pick up a UDFA QB to add more fresh meat.....but it does not look like they have done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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