Two Tight End System?

[Sober Poet]

OK, maybe I am biased toward the position, I played TE (was nothing great, 1 TD in my life).

 

I think back to the Parcells Giants teams of the 80s and remember Mark Bavaro's impact in a lot of games. He would light opponents up down the seam in a critical moment and force defenses to carefully monitor all three levels.

 

Novacek in Dallas in the 90s was a terrific weapon since teams had to defend the run (Smith) and long ball (Irving), again, all three levels.

 

Gronkowski and Hernandez were a devastating TE tandem until the law became involved. They may have gone on to become a historic duo if not. Last year NE's TE tandem rocked our worlds (article in full below).

 

So, I have to ask, in your humble opinion, do you think we are looking at something similar with DeValve and Djoku? And, should we? That is, do we have to consider something like that due to our inexperienced receiving corps? And it may also help our run blocking to have both on the field strategically.

 

Let's hear it. And remember, I am biased. (Also, I realize there is no Gronk on our roster).

 

 

 

Film Review: How the Patriots 2 tight ends sets baffled the Browns defense

26

The Browns defense didn’t know how to handle the Patriots two star tight ends.

by Rich Hill@PP_Rich_Hill Oct 10, 2016, 2:00pm EDT

• The New England Patriots finally unleashed the two tight end offense that everyone had been waiting for and, boy, it might have exceeded expectations. After playing 2-TE sets on roughly 30% of snaps over the first four weeks, the Patriots doubled it to almost 60% against the Browns.

The results were fantastic. Rob Gronkowski and Martellus Bennett combined for 176 yards and 3 touchdowns on 11 receptions and they both added some high level blocking to round out their versatility.

Gronkowski and Bennett “at tight end has been a tough matchup for other teams,” Patriots QB Tom Brady said after the game. “We just have to keep doing it, keep putting pressure on the defense. I think we did a good job with that today.”

Gronkowski and Bennett are enjoying playing on the field together because they take pressure away from one another and make each other better.

“[bennett is] a great player, great dude and a great teammate to have out there,” Gronkowski said. “You learn a lot from a guy who has about nine years in the league. We've been waiting for this moment since we got together to both get out on the field both healthy. It's great working with each other, and we just have to keep improving every week and keep helping each other out."

"I love playing with Gronk,” Bennett said. “I'm very excited for him. It's pretty dynamic with both of us out there today and he played very well. I expect him to continue to play like that. That's what Gronk is. That's what Gronk does. That's why he's the ‘Gronkinator'."

New T-Shirt: Black Unicorn and the Incredible Gronk!

What makes the Patriots tight end duo so difficult to defend is that they can block and catch on any given play.

Linebackers can’t cover either player one-on-one and defenses have to double-cover Gronkowski. There are only so many defenders to go around, with Bennett’s second touchdown grab a good example:

Gronkowski is isolated on the far side of the field, while Bennett is inline on the nearside. Julian Edelman is in the near slot and Chris Hogan is on the near sideline. D.J. Foster is in the backfield.

The Browns elect to rush six, which means that there are only five players able to drop into coverage. Since the Browns double cover Gronkowski, Foster actually leaks out of the backfield without anyone in coverage.

"Yeah, [the double coverage] was great, that's why it's a team game,” Gronkowski said after the game. “The two defenders come to me and leave Marty in the red zone one-on-one. So it gives other people opportunities to capitalize on them. That's why it's such a great sport to play because it's such a team sport.”

Brady throws a strike to Bennett, who is single covered by a linebacker. This is an easy choice for Brady.

Alternatively, the Browns have to respect the blocking ability of both tight ends, which makes the threat of the play action so much more dangerous. Here’s how it works on Bennett’s third touchdown of the day.

The Patriots set up with two tight ends on the right side of the formation and block as if LeGarrette Blount is going to receive the hand off and run around the end. This causes the Browns linebackers and defensive backs to step up to the line of scrimmage.

Bennett and Gronkowski detach from the line and run down the field and away from the momentum of the Browns defenders. Both tight ends are wide open, but Bennett was more open on the sideline, away from the deep safety.

When the Patriots can hit these plays, it prevents the linebackers from crashing against the run and it makes the game a lot easier for Blount to produce.

“It was tough,” Browns head coach Hue Jackson said about facing the two tight ends. “Obviously, those guys made a lot of plays. The match-up looked like it did. It wasn't as good on our side.”

The Browns are very young on defense so these opportunities might not present themselves against more veteran squads, but Gronkowski and Bennett exceeded all expectations in their first game where both were close to healthy.

[The Gipper]

With our inexperienced QBs...I think this offense will rely a great deal on a 2 TE system, with DeValve and Njoku in on at least one third to half the plays.

[Ghoolie]

 

OK, maybe I am biased toward the position, I played TE (was nothing great, 1 TD in my life).

 

I think back to the Parcells Giants teams of the 80s and remember Mark Bavaro's impact in a lot of games. He would light opponents up down the seam in a critical moment and force defenses to carefully monitor all three levels.

 

Novacek in Dallas in the 90s was a terrific weapon since teams had to defend the run (Smith) and long ball (Irving), again, all three levels.

 

Gronkowski and Hernandez were a devastating TE tandem until the law became involved. They may have gone on to become a historic duo if not. Last year NE's TE tandem rocked our worlds (article in full below).

 

So, I have to ask, in your humble opinion, do you think we are looking at something similar with DeValve and Djoku? And, should we? That is, do we have to consider something like that due to our inexperienced receiving corps? And it may also help our run blocking to have both on the field strategically.

 

Let's hear it. And remember, I am biased. (Also, I realize there is no Gronk on our roster).

 

 

 

Film Review: How the Patriots 2 tight ends sets baffled the Browns defense

26

The Browns defense didn’t know how to handle the Patriots two star tight ends.

by Rich Hill@PP_Rich_Hill Oct 10, 2016, 2:00pm EDT

• The New England Patriots finally unleashed the two tight end offense that everyone had been waiting for and, boy, it might have exceeded expectations. After playing 2-TE sets on roughly 30% of snaps over the first four weeks, the Patriots doubled it to almost 60% against the Browns.

The results were fantastic. Rob Gronkowski and Martellus Bennett combined for 176 yards and 3 touchdowns on 11 receptions and they both added some high level blocking to round out their versatility.

Gronkowski and Bennett “at tight end has been a tough matchup for other teams,” Patriots QB Tom Brady said after the game. “We just have to keep doing it, keep putting pressure on the defense. I think we did a good job with that today.”

Gronkowski and Bennett are enjoying playing on the field together because they take pressure away from one another and make each other better.

“[bennett is] a great player, great dude and a great teammate to have out there,” Gronkowski said. “You learn a lot from a guy who has about nine years in the league. We've been waiting for this moment since we got together to both get out on the field both healthy. It's great working with each other, and we just have to keep improving every week and keep helping each other out."

"I love playing with Gronk,” Bennett said. “I'm very excited for him. It's pretty dynamic with both of us out there today and he played very well. I expect him to continue to play like that. That's what Gronk is. That's what Gronk does. That's why he's the ‘Gronkinator'."

New T-Shirt: Black Unicorn and the Incredible Gronk!

What makes the Patriots tight end duo so difficult to defend is that they can block and catch on any given play.

Linebackers can’t cover either player one-on-one and defenses have to double-cover Gronkowski. There are only so many defenders to go around, with Bennett’s second touchdown grab a good example:

Gronkowski is isolated on the far side of the field, while Bennett is inline on the nearside. Julian Edelman is in the near slot and Chris Hogan is on the near sideline. D.J. Foster is in the backfield.

The Browns elect to rush six, which means that there are only five players able to drop into coverage. Since the Browns double cover Gronkowski, Foster actually leaks out of the backfield without anyone in coverage.

"Yeah, [the double coverage] was great, that's why it's a team game,” Gronkowski said after the game. “The two defenders come to me and leave Marty in the red zone one-on-one. So it gives other people opportunities to capitalize on them. That's why it's such a great sport to play because it's such a team sport.”

Brady throws a strike to Bennett, who is single covered by a linebacker. This is an easy choice for Brady.

Alternatively, the Browns have to respect the blocking ability of both tight ends, which makes the threat of the play action so much more dangerous. Here’s how it works on Bennett’s third touchdown of the day.

The Patriots set up with two tight ends on the right side of the formation and block as if LeGarrette Blount is going to receive the hand off and run around the end. This causes the Browns linebackers and defensive backs to step up to the line of scrimmage.

Bennett and Gronkowski detach from the line and run down the field and away from the momentum of the Browns defenders. Both tight ends are wide open, but Bennett was more open on the sideline, away from the deep safety.

When the Patriots can hit these plays, it prevents the linebackers from crashing against the run and it makes the game a lot easier for Blount to produce.

“It was tough,” Browns head coach Hue Jackson said about facing the two tight ends. “Obviously, those guys made a lot of plays. The match-up looked like it did. It wasn't as good on our side.”

The Browns are very young on defense so these opportunities might not present themselves against more veteran squads, but Gronkowski and Bennett exceeded all expectations in their first game where both were close to healthy.

 

 

If you played, you were great. You strapped a helmet on and put your self at risk to get fucked up. Impressive at any level. I also like the post.

 

A two TE offense, with the right attitude and play calling, can be a punishing offense. Frankly, I think the Browns need to attack on offense. You would think that an HOF LT and a TE would have already developed a sweep option.

[Tour2ma]

First... congrats on the TD...

 

Second... we've certainly loved our 2 TE sets thru a couple of recent Offensive regimes as of late, but the issue with our current TE corps is who blocks? Could be both of our youngins are willing, but simply raw. However, in most of the great TE tandems at least one was a superior blocker and the other was serviceable while both were at minimum solid receivers. And in a couple Pats' examples both were very good blockers and very good to great receivers... with speed.

 

Closest I can think of us coming to such a combo was a couple'o'four years ago when Drey was our top TE and Barn began to emerge... and they weren't all that close to great.

[Canton Mike]

From all I have seen, read, & heard, Njoku & DeValve are both very talented receivers and both seem willing & anxious to become efficient blockers, so I guess we will see what happens there. They certainly have abilities to scare opposing defenses.

 

Mike

[Clevfan4life]

I would have preferred we keep barnidge to run those 2 TE sets.

[Mudfly]

I would have preferred we keep barnidge to run those 2 TE sets.

I was surprised to see him go so early, as I would think depth is good.....but do have a pretty good feeling for Devalve and Njoku......thinking Njoku could be a real score for us.....maybe our best pick

[miktoxic]

i guess no one remembers bavarro as a brown. what are you all too young deaf and blind?

 

how about the helmet/concussion TD catch?

 

c'mon you stoops!!! fans my ass.

[Flugel]

I can't wait to see DeValve and Njoku emerge into productive TEs. That said, keeping DeValve healthy has been a challenge. This is his last 3 years at Princeton:

2013 9 Games

2014 3 Games

2015 5 Games

 

Not exactly a reflection of durability. His athleticism is very intriguing though. He made one catch in traffic last year where our QB hung him out to dry in a zone where ill-advised throws have been know to facilitate the kill-shots. The reason I say such a thing is, for a guy that's had a lot of injuries in the past, he had no fear going over the middle regardless of the throw.

 

Njoku, is really young. I think he's only 20; which is as old as OJ Howard was when OJ indicated he needed to return to another year at Alabama to improve upon his consistency with blocking. That really paid off. No reason the same can't be true for an elite athlete with a good frame like Njoku.

[nickers]

I can't wait to see DeValve and Njoku emerge into productive TEs. That said, keeping DeValve healthy has been a challenge. This is his last 3 years at Princeton:

2013 9 Games

2014 3 Games

2015 5 Games

 

Not exactly a reflection of durability. His athleticism is very intriguing though. He made one catch in traffic last year where our QB hung him out to dry in a zone where ill-advised throws have been know to facilitate the kill-shots. The reason I say such a thing is, for a guy that's had a lot of injuries in the past, he had no fear going over the middle regardless of the throw.

 

Njoku, is really young. I think he's only 20; which is as old as OJ Howard was when OJ indicated he needed to return to another year at Alabama to improve upon his consistency with blocking. That really paid off. No reason the same can't be true for an elite athlete with a good frame like Njoku.

 

 

I cant wait for this team to emerge with a real owner and a real QB room.

[Sober Poet]

i guess no one remembers bavarro as a brown. what are you all too young deaf and blind?

 

how about the helmet/concussion TD catch?

 

c'mon you stoops!!! fans my ass.

 

Wow. Impressive trivia! I need to up my game. In my defense, I met my wife that year (1992).....didn't watch a lot of football if you get my drift...priorities baby.

[Ibleedbrown]

This seems like a conversation that has been had over the years. Shea and Heiden. Winslow and whoever was with Winslow. Jordan and Barnidge. Barnidge and whoever was with Barnidge...

 

I think there's far too much inexperience and blocking accumen with these guys to suggest they will be a better duo than Shea and Heiden.

[miktoxic]

barnidge's name should not be even mentioned in same breath as newsome and bavarro.

 

jordan, winslow....????? HA!!!!!

 

thanks for the 3 years (each) of nothingness.

[wargograw]

This seems like a conversation that has been had over the years. Shea and Heiden. Winslow and whoever was with Winslow. Jordan and Barnidge. Barnidge and whoever was with Barnidge...

 

I think there's far too much inexperience and blocking accumen with these guys to suggest they will be a better duo than Shea and Heiden.

Were Jordan and Barnidge ever on the team together?

[gumby73]

I can't wait to see DeValve and Njoku emerge into productive TEs. That said, keeping DeValve healthy has been a challenge. This is his last 3 years at Princeton:

2013 9 Games

2014 3 Games

2015 5 Games

Sober Poet let me start with a Welcome Aboard the Browns Board of Madness. We share a love of the TE position. I was the TE at St. Johns HS at Toledo,Oh. when Rob Chudzinski just got to St.Johns. I failed my walk-on shot at TE at U of Toledo. 0 college TD's(killed it in spring ball with 4 TD's).. I was also at this years draft & was absolutely ecstatic with the Njoku pick. In a nutshell at TE we have 5 on roster all roughly 6'4" 250. Am lost with Seaman & Hue & the approach they see to use. Eifert or Gronk'ish? Barniage job was taken in Carolina by one of the best blockout defender TE's in Greg Olsen. Gary used it in Cleveland. Damn shame Olsen never gave Barney the secret to blocking. Seth DeValve tape at Princeton shows the same as 2 years with Browns. Seth plays with the Gronk reckless abandon but with no clue on how to protect his body taking falls or hits. Till Seth learns this league is not full of Princeton level talent, time in the tub is Seth's issue. Telfer maybe our best line blocker but his lisfrac foot made him a very slow passing weapon.In Ota's I hear Seaman likes the overall looks of Taylor McNamara. Leaving either JP Holtz or McNamara maybe crashing Telfer's roster spot? with Telfer being cut OR stashing McNamara/Holtz on PS with Telfer as a active? 3rd TE? With all TE juices flowing. I can't wait till pads are popping at TE.. Great (actual football)+1 post Sober

[Ibleedbrown]

Were Jordan and Barnidge ever on the team together?

Yes. Cam was '11 to '14, Barn '13 to '16. Though really, until Barnidge's breakout year he seemed to be the "oh, he made the team again?" guy. I always assumed he was the good blocking TE because he never had great receiving stats until Cam split.

[Orion]

The TE's would need to be able to block if you're going to run a substantial amount of 2 TE's.

Two WR's would help to keep there from being a pile in the middle of the field.

[Tour2ma]

Have to admit... I'd forgotten that Bavaro dropped in for a year with us. But given his impact...

 

 

On Barn... he had one great receiving year in a favorable system with a relatively weak WR corps and a QB with whom he seemed to share a brain. He was never a good blocker. While I appreciate the memory of him being the bright spot he was in 2015, he simply was not a part of our TE future.

[Flugel]

Have to admit... I'd forgotten that Bavaro dropped in for a year with us. But given his impact...

 

 

On Barn... he had one great receiving year in a favorable system with a relatively weak WR corps and a QB with whom he seemed to share a brain. He was never a good blocker. While I appreciate the memory of him being the bright spot he was in 2015, he simply was not a part of our TE future.

 

Well said Tour.

 

Keep in mind, after a career year in 2015 (that didn't resemble any other) with 9 TD receptions and something like 78 receptions - he got a hefty raise for it. Unfortunately, his reception volume decreased by about 23 receptions while he dropped to only 2 TD receptions in 2016 when he carried the bigger contract. To me, he looked like he was in pain when he was trying to get open last year. He may have only been 1 year older than he was in 2016 - but he ran at the speed of park at 31 years of age.

 

Prior to the draft my hope at #12 was OJ Howard. Having said that, I think the ceiling is just as high for Njoku and I like where we selected him in round 1. Late but early enough to prevent Pittsburgh from solidifying a very important prong of attack.

[Mudfly]

Im thinking Njoku could be the better prospect(over Howard), but just didnt get the exposure of an Alabama or the opportunities, from his system, to rack up the same numbers......pretty excited about him......

 

Gotta add, that when Barny went all 1000 yds, in "his year", I pointed out that it was a 1 year aberration...only to be shot down by the sunshine crowd....but, right again.....

[Flugel]

Im thinking Njoku could be the better prospect(over Howard), but just didnt get the exposure of an Alabama or the opportunities, from his system, to rack up the same numbers......pretty excited about him......

 

Gotta add, that when Barny went all 1000 yds, in "his year", I pointed out that it was a 1 year aberration...only to be shot down by the sunshine crowd....but, right again.....

 

Yep, good stuff Mud! And he's only 20 while Barnidge will be turning 32 this Fall.

[Tour2ma]

Thanks, Flugs...

 

Im thinking Njoku could be the better prospect(over Howard), but just didnt get the exposure of an Alabama or the opportunities, from his system, to rack up the same numbers......pretty excited about him......

 

Gotta add, that when Barny went all 1000 yds, in "his year", I pointed out that it was a 1 year aberration...only to be shot down by the sunshine crowd....but, right again.....

 

Pretty sure I was not one of the "shooters"...

[Flugel]

Have to admit... I'd forgotten that Bavaro dropped in for a year with us.

 

Part of him did. Bavaro only had 25 catches for 315 yards and 2 TDs in 16 games; and he wasn't healthy enough to practice in between games. It was still pretty cool to see in him a Browns uniform though. It was also great to see Pepper Johnson and Carl Banks in a Browns uniform.

[Kvoethe]

I thought this was click bait for that homo ghoolie

 

My bad

[Canton Dawg]

Part of him did. Bavaro only had 25 catches for 315 yards and 2 TDs in 16 games; and he wasn't healthy enough to practice in between games. It was still pretty cool to see in him a Browns uniform though. It was also great to see Pepper Johnson and Carl Banks in a Browns uniform.

 

Not to mention RB Joe Morris.

[jcam222]

Im thinking Njoku could be the better prospect(over Howard), but just didnt get the exposure of an Alabama or the opportunities, from his system, to rack up the same numbers......pretty excited about him......

 

Gotta add, that when Barny went all 1000 yds, in "his year", I pointed out that it was a 1 year aberration...only to be shot down by the sunshine crowd....but, right again.....

Barns less than 1000 yards last year had plenty to do with QB play

[Flugel]

Barns less than 1000 yards last year had plenty to do with QB play

 

Or, we could look at Barnidge's entire NFL career and see that 2015 was an exception to the rule. Let's try not pretend the QBing was terrific in 2015.

 

He had some drops in 2016 as well as some difficulty getting open when there weren't defensive breakdowns leaving him wide open. I remember the second time we played Cincy in 2015, they game planned to jam him at the los. This carried over into 2016 when a lot of our opponents did this to him; which left us counting on inexperienced first year starters at WRs (Pryor & Coleman/Louis). Makes sense to me. Aside from that, Barnidge looked like he was in pain via the way he was running/waddling at 31 years of age. 55 receptions wasn't horrible; but it was quite a drop off from 78 as was going from 9 TD receptions to just 2.

 

Hue loved using Ryan Hewitt as the HB in Cincy while his 6'6" TE Tyler's Eiferts provided 10 TD receptions in that red zone our team gagged on last year. Even Pryor, for the year he had going over 1000 yards receiving, could only score 4 TDs. Hue has to be pretty excited about DeValve & Njoku.

 

I know this goes against my level of trust here - but could you imagine if Josh Gordon could finally prioritize his life to the extent he could consistently pass enough piss tests to play ball? We'd have Josh Gordon, Kenny Britt, David Njoku, Seth DeValve and RB Duke Johnson giving Hue some similarity to AJ Green, Marvin Jones Jr, Ryan Hewitt, Tyler Eifert and RB Gio Bernard that he coordinated to a 12-4 record. We even have one of his OGs (Zeitler). I doubt we're going from 1-15 to 12-4 with he experience levels we're counting on here. The question is - can Kessler or Kizer be somewhat equivalent to Andy Dalton in one of his best years as a NFL QB?

[TexasAg1969]

BTW former Texas A&M 5 star WR recruit Ricky Seals-Jones signed as a FA with Ariz. and is making the conversion to TE @ 6'5" 250 lbs, just as I suggested earlier this year. He should have stayed in school and made the conversion his senior year much like our former RB Brandon Williams did to CB his senior year and is now a starter for Ariz.in the NFL as a CB. Stupid is as stupid does. Tough to learn a position while trying to make a team with no prior experience in that position.

[The Gipper]

BTW former Texas A&M 5 star WR recruit Ricky Seals-Jones signed as a FA with Ariz. and is making the conversion to TE @ 6'5" 250 lbs, just as I suggested earlier this year. He should have stayed in school and made the conversion his senior year much like our former RB Brandon Williams did to CB his senior year and is now a starter for Ariz.in the NFL as a CB. Stupid is as stupid does. Tough to learn a position while trying to make a team with no prior experience in that position.

Ricky Jones? Is Chuckie still in love?

 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Or, we could look at Barnidge's entire NFL career and see that 2015 was an exception to the rule. Let's try not pretend the QBing was terrific in 2015.

 

I'm not a Barnidge apologist by any means, but that's not exactly a fair argument. There was never an opportunity for Barnidge to receive targets. 2015 really represented the first opportunity for him as a lead TE or not behind a HOF WR and Barnidge responded accordingly.

 

For the first two years of his career, he was third fiddle TE on a team that had bad QB play and only targeted their TE's about 60 or so times a season collectively. CAR was all WR - Muhammad and Smith were bringing in 100-130 targets each. Then a down year with Claustrich at the helm, and CAR brought in Olson (and Shockey for a season). Barnidge was never a lead TE for them, never received any significant targets, and never stood a chance.

 

I understand the Barnidge cut and I'm not saying we should have kept him. But he's a good player, a good teammate, and a good guy. As a lead TE, it's not without the realm of possibility that he'd be a 900 yd guy.