What does hue have to go to keep his job this year?

[Tacosman]

 

I know it depends on more than w-l record and a lot on things like "are we starting to see some progress"....

but just in terms of a number of wins, what do you think gets him a 3rd year?

would 4-12 or 5-11 do it?  Does he need to get to 6-10?  

Clearly if the win total is 3 or less he's done....no nfl coach is going to go 4-28 over two full seasons in a league like the nfl(with massive player turnover) and keep his job.  Regardless of the circumstances.  

right now vegas has our o/u at 4.5 wins...but you have to bet a little more to take the over.  I think if Hue goes under the vegas win total(4 or less), he's definately done.  5-11 and it just depends on whether the team looks on the upswing...

[Alkid3]

4 win season keeps his job. And I believe we can do it. The defense looks good. If we had this defense last year we might have won more games.

[Tacosman]

11 minutes ago, Alkid3 said:

4 win season keeps his job. And I believe we can do it. The defense looks good. If we had this defense last year we might have won more games.

in a league with a much regression to the mean and turnover as the nfl, any 4 win season is pretty piss poor.  Hell in actual performance level and pythagorean expectations, we were pretty close to a 4 win team last year.

 

I just dont know how much improvement 4 wins really represents.  At those sorts of win totals you're still just toiling around the very bottom.

[LondonBrown]

If this zone read nonsense continues, id expect Greg Williams to be HC next season. 

[Mark O]

Only way he loses his job this year or after this season is if he dies at some point during the season. 

[Ibleedbrown]

9 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Only way he loses his job this year or after this season is if he dies at some point during the season. 

And if he manages at least a .500 record in the process, l vote he gets a post mortem raise and stays on as head coach. It'll be Weekend At Bernies meets Remember the Titans.

Live side! Dead side!

[alporcini]

I had a buddy place an OVER bet for me in Vegas last weekend.

Hear me now believe me later.

Our D is gonna win us two games by themselves. 

[Tacosman]

13 minutes ago, Mark O said:

Only way he loses his job this year or after this season is if he dies at some point during the season. 

if he goes something ridiculous like 2-14, there is no way he is going to keep his job going 3-33 in 36 nfl games.  That would be unprecedented.  

I dont think the browns will go 2-14 because of regression to the mean of course.  It is damn hard in a league with as much parity and turnover as the nfl to win 2 or fewer games two straight seasons.  If someone manages to such that badly over 36 games in a league with such parity and turnover, well, they are doing something wrong....

[Ibleedbrown]

1 hour ago, Tacosman said:

if he goes something ridiculous like 2-14, there is no way he is going to keep his job going 3-33 in 36 nfl games.  That would be unprecedented.  

Extremely unprecedented, especially considering it would mean we played and lost 4 playoff games after only winning 2 games this year.

[dawg2fan]

1 hour ago, Tacosman said:

if he goes something ridiculous like 2-14, there is no way he is going to keep his job going 3-33 in 36 nfl games.  That would be unprecedented.  

I dont think the browns will go 2-14 because of regression to the mean of course.  It is damn hard in a league with as much parity and turnover as the nfl to win 2 or fewer games two straight seasons.  If someone manages to such that badly over 36 games in a league with such parity and turnover, well, they are doing something wrong....

This year's record will not count because of the trades they have next year.  Now If his record is not good next year, especially considering all the picks/trades, then he is gone.

[Comeonman]

1 hour ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Extremely unprecedented, especially considering it would mean we played and lost 4 playoff games after only winning 2 games this year.

Lol. I think his job is safe even if we win one game again. Sad, but true. 

[Orion]

If Hue gets our QB hurt because he uses him as a RB then I'd have his car warmed up and packed before daylight.

[Canton Mike]

4 hours ago, Mark O said:

Only way he loses his job this year or after this season is if he dies at some point during the season. 

Totally agree & I actually believe he's safe at least through the 2018 season. By the end of 2018, Hue will have secured his job here & very possibly extended.

THERE! That's one of the few predictions you'll ever get from me.

Mike

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

His contract gets him a third year. Dude isn't in danger of losing his job. The fact that this is even a thread is kind of ridiculous.

[Clevfan4life]

Only if the players revolt against him. If the team is competetive he stays. If the team becomes disillusioned with him than thats a diff story. 

[TexasAg1969]

Hue would actually have to mismanage into multiple looses that looked like won games to lose his job. Too many players and staffers love working with him for anything bad to happen to him. I think this team is going to surprise us this year with fanatical play that actually gets the crowd really into the games. People will actually be glad they showed up win or lose. There's just a different feeling you can sense that does not sound at all like a team coming off a 1-15 season. This actually feels like a team that sounds like "I got your back!" rather than a few self centered stars.

[CaineDeSoulis]

if our offense does not show some kinda of life he'll only make it to the bye this year let alone next year. Ridiculous Play calling persist from last season our defense looks aggressive,fast and effective and COMPLETELY OUTPLAYED our offense. and has for 2 games led us to victory. we have a bottom 3rd offense at best currently. With a top 3 Offensive line with depth. Defensively we are a top 10 defense in yardage and top 5 in points given currently.

That is the difference a Coach can make. we start losing a pile of games 6-10/3-6 and i can GURANTEE we will have Gregg Williams as a HC by the bye week

Hue is tied to our Offensive performance and Kizer.

[Canton Mike]

16 minutes ago, CaineDeSoulis said:

if our offense does not show some kinda of life he'll only make it to the bye this year let alone next year. Ridiculous Play calling persist from last season our defense looks aggressive,fast and effective and COMPLETELY OUTPLAYED our offense. and has for 2 games led us to victory. we have a bottom 3rd offense at best currently. With a top 3 Offensive line with depth. Defensively we are a top 10 defense in yardage and top 5 in points given currently.

That is the difference a Coach can make. we start losing a pile of games 6-10/3-6 and i can GURANTEE we will have Gregg Williams as a HC by the bye week

Hue is tied to our Offensive performance and Kizer.

Disagree. With a rookie QB, you CAN'T expect veteran performance & he is working with inexperienced receivers to boot. Hue has at least through this season & next.

Mike

[Dutch Oven]

Jimmy Haslam is still the owner of the Browns, right?

 

I don't think Hue loses his job, but with Hillbilly Jim owning this team, it shouldn't shock anyone if he canned him. His track record indicates that it might be more surprising if he DIDN'T fire him after the season. Hopefully Haslam is fully committed to the rebuilding process.
 

And speaking of head coaches having a two year stretch with only a few wins to show for it, and keeping their jobs, I think of John McKay of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He was their original head coach when the team started up in '76, and they lost all 14 games that season, and the first 12 of the next season. The Bucs kept him around, in year 4 of their existence McKay lead them to the NFC Championship.

[CaineDeSoulis]

I can absolutely expect "competent" QB Play and Play Calling from our Offense Leader. We have a Fantastic Line and above average Backs that were and continue to be Woefully under used. Kizer is our current leading Rusher.... Kizer is also 3rd in loss yards from sacks... He's a rookie and i understand him to play as such. his biggest knock is his inconsistency and mental toughness. Do i think he is going to be the browns savior at QB. No i dont think he will. mental traits are nearly impossible to overcome at the next level. There was a reason he slid to the BACK HALF of the second round. i look forward to the 2018 QB Class with anticipation. Kizer has the physical tools to make it but its not likely.

Did you know the capital of Spain is Madrid.... that's about how much relevance the 76 bucs have with any team post UFA

[Dutch Oven]

36 minutes ago, CaineDeSoulis said:

I can absolutely expect "competent" QB Play and Play Calling from our Offense Leader. We have a Fantastic Line and above average Backs that were and continue to be Woefully under used. Kizer is our current leading Rusher.... Kizer is also 3rd in loss yards from sacks... He's a rookie and i understand him to play as such. his biggest knock is his inconsistency and mental toughness. Do i think he is going to be the browns savior at QB. No i dont think he will. mental traits are nearly impossible to overcome at the next level. There was a reason he slid to the BACK HALF of the second round. i look forward to the 2018 QB Class with anticipation. Kizer has the physical tools to make it but its not likely.

Did you know the capital of Spain is Madrid.... that's about how much relevance the 76 bucs have with any team post UFA

That was the point, I had to go back 40 or so years to think of a head coach who only won a few games combined in two seasons back-to-back and came back for a third season. I can't think of any other recent examples.

But hey, act like a miserable fuck for no reason. Seems to be a common on here.

[Tacosman]

to all you guys who think hue is safe if he goes something like 3-13:  Name a bunch of nfl coaches who go 4-28 over a two year period and come back the next year??  It just doesn't happen.  

And don't say "but it's ok that they have a bad record because look what they started with". What...do you think all the other coaches fired after losing > 80% of their games over a two year period had a stacked roster or something?  Of course not...they mostly took over poor teams as well.

The point is that if you are losing at such a rate consistently in the nfl after two whole seasons, thats not a good sign.  It doesn't mean that the biggest reason the team went 3-13 isn't an untalented roster, but it also sure as hell rules out the possibility that the coach is a positive difference maker. 

It's more likely than not that Hue won't be fired because it's more likely than not(due to the nature of the nfl) that we win more than 4 games.  But if we stink it up and get the #1 pick again or the #2 pick?  You're damn right he is gone....it would be historical if he wasnt.  And why is the browns situation so unique to merit that(hint- it's not)

[Ghoolie]

The bigger question is, "why does this fuck hole even have a job?"

1) I told you all when AssOiler was acquired that this was proof positive that Jackson doesn't have a fucking clue. I preached that NOBODY wanted this turd and that he holds on to the fucking ball, too fucking long. He is a dullard.............a Tim Couch................ a total bust.....................BUT BUT BUT................. no, you ass pimples know better. You go on and on about how full of smarts the organization and Hue is.............he will analyze to see what he has, use Brock to train black Tarkenton..... blah blah blah fucking blah you blowjobs post. Analytics, mechanics, working in to the system............. ALL BULLSHIT. 

Now, if a pig fucked like me knows this shit before AssOiler even takes a snap,,,,,what the fuck do you imagine that says about Hue? seriously people. This fucking cueball needed to waste training camp and 2 preseason games to "see what he had in AssOiler?". Jesus, Joseph and Mary, Hue Jackson is a cluster fuck.

 

2) Also, as I predicted to you during the draft, Hue Jackson has painted himself into a QB corner once again. He wasn't smart enough to know that it's Kizer or bust, and now he has to hope Kizer DOES play well.....which he won't. Then what is his move? Maybe he tells Haslam to hire Ghoolie.

3) Hue has done nothing to bring discipline to the Browns. They remain the most penalty producing team in the NFL

4) Regardless of whether or not Hue influenced the drafting of One-Tackle-Texas, and regardless that he didn't personally pass on Trubisky, the fact is the Browns could have had Trubisky. The kid is progressing VERY fast and like it or not, was a far, far, 1 million times better pick than the one-dimensional, soft, pussy boy we took.

Haslam is going to have to watch another QB flourish and grow, while we fuck around with a black Tarkenton who is cockeyed, and holds the fucking ball too long.

Make no mistake, Hue is already about done. A 42 - 10 Steeler blowout at home may be all Haslam needs to see. Really? How fucking stupid can he be.

 

 

[wargograw]

4 hours ago, CaineDeSoulis said:

if our offense does not show some kinda of life he'll only make it to the bye this year let alone next year. Ridiculous Play calling persist from last season our defense looks aggressive,fast and effective and COMPLETELY OUTPLAYED our offense. and has for 2 games led us to victory. we have a bottom 3rd offense at best currently. With a top 3 Offensive line with depth. Defensively we are a top 10 defense in yardage and top 5 in points given currently.

That is the difference a Coach can make. we start losing a pile of games 6-10/3-6 and i can GURANTEE we will have Gregg Williams as a HC by the bye week

Hue is tied to our Offensive performance and Kizer.

Says the guy that was positive we'd fire him last year. 

[wargograw]

42 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

to all you guys who think hue is safe if he goes something like 3-13:  Name a bunch of nfl coaches who go 4-28 over a two year period and come back the next year??  It just doesn't happen.  

And don't say "but it's ok that they have a bad record because look what they started with". What...do you think all the other coaches fired after losing > 80% of their games over a two year period had a stacked roster or something?  Of course not...they mostly took over poor teams as well.

The point is that if you are losing at such a rate consistently in the nfl after two whole seasons, thats not a good sign.  It doesn't mean that the biggest reason the team went 3-13 isn't an untalented roster, but it also sure as hell rules out the possibility that the coach is a positive difference maker. 

It's more likely than not that Hue won't be fired because it's more likely than not(due to the nature of the nfl) that we win more than 4 games.  But if we stink it up and get the #1 pick again or the #2 pick?  You're damn right he is gone....it would be historical if he wasnt.  And why is the browns situation so unique to merit that(hint- it's not)

how is it not? Who has been as bad as the Browns and for as long? I'll wait. 

[CaineDeSoulis]

5 hours ago, wargograw said:

Says the guy that was positive we'd fire him last year. 

Positive no... Hopeful yes...

And im not sure how anyone that has seen this offense can think we dont need an upgrade at offensive captain.

[Westside Steve]

To answer the topic if coach Jackson wants to keep his job then  Kizer has to be the guy.

If we win four games and he sucks it won't be enough to get Darnold who is being talked about as an Andrew Luck type of talent.

I think the circumstances would have to be pretty extreme for him to be fired after his second season however. After year number three we will see how these draftees perform.

 

WSS

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

To answer the topic if coach Jackson wants to keep his job then  Kizer has to be the guy.

If we win four games and he sucks it won't be enough to get Darnold who is being talked about as an Andrew Luck type of talent.

I think the circumstances would have to be pretty extreme for him to be fired after his second season however. After year number three we will see how these draftees perform.

 

WSS

This time last year, Deshaun Watson was being talked about as a possible first overall pick. Anything can happen between now and then. 

And also I'm not certain Darnold will even come out next year. 

But outside of that, I agree. Kizer has to be the guy regardless. You draft a guy, you need to see what you have in him. The worst thing that can happen is that we go this entire year not knowing whether or not he's a franchise caliber QB.

[The Gipper]

43 minutes ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

This time last year, Deshaun Watson was being talked about as a possible first overall pick. Anything can happen between now and then. 

And also I'm not certain Darnold will even come out next year. 

But outside of that, I agree. Kizer has to be the guy regardless. You draft a guy, you need to see what you have in him. The worst thing that can happen is that we go this entire year not knowing whether or not he's a franchise caliber QB.

Well, I guess I wouldn't be all that hyped up in thinking Darnold would be a be all end all at QB.  Remember Matt Leinert....more highly touted than Darnold before his final season at USC. How did he turn out? Mark Sanchez.  Matt Barkley. Honest to pete....I am not jumping on any QB back and proclaiming them the savior until they have done it for 2-3 years WITH the Browns.  Right now, I think I got only 4-5QBs on whose jock I would jump:

Bernie Kosar, Brian Sipe, Bill Nelsen, Frank Ryan, Otto Graham.

Call me when any of these prospects lives up to the guys on that list.  Hopeful?  Certainly.  Ready to make proclamations?  Hell no.

[Tour2ma]

On Hue keeping his job...

For me it's really a matter of us showing improvement beyond that the simple addition of talent that most of us agree has arrived... and the measure of that is way beyond a win total. IMO to say "he's done at 3-13, but safe at 5-11" is beyond overly simplistic.

Hue's Offense has to show improvement that demonstrates that it's performance exceeds the sum of its parts... and his fingerprints have to be all over that improvement via his personnel utilization and play calling... including judicious use of the read option.

Additionally he has to show a game management capacity beyond that he showed last season. If he's smart, then he has an assistant set to help him here.

Hue is already starting on the plus side of the ledger. His hiring of Gregg Williams and his growing relationship with Gregg have piled up early points. Now he has but to incorporate Gregg's D without overcontrolling it. As he does so points will continue to accumulate.

Similarly he'll get credit for ST success... another unit whose performance looks poised to improve.

42 minutes ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

The worst thing that can happen is that we go this entire year not knowing whether or not he's a franchise caliber QB.

Then be prepared for the worst thing because we won't know this after one season. We might know if he's not franchise caliber, but no way can we know that he is. Best we can do is better assess his potential.