2018 picks, as it stands

[The Gipper]

8 hours ago, JimboJones said:

If the Browns are out of it by the October 31st trade deadline, is now the right time to move Joe Thomas for a 1st + 2nd or 3rd rounder?  He's going to be 33 years old and with us in rebuild mode, do we deal him before he breaks down and it's too late to get anything?

Personally, I think they should since he's likely going to be either retired or not so good by the time the Browns are ready to be a contender.  

Adding a couple more high picks from guy nearing the end would be huge.

 

Fuck off newbie.

[JimboJones]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Not a fan of your plan for a couple reasons...

1. After the deadline there are two months of football left. While IMO we will likely be "out of it", we will still be in the QB evaluating mode and downgrading our LT significantly does not aid that process.
2. Not feeling the trade value you are. We've shopped Joe in the past (two years ago?) and word was we came away unimpressed with the offers. Teams don't pony up 1's let alone "1's plus" for players at the end of their careers... even great players.
3. If you do the deal, then you generate an immediate, Day One draft need on top of a what could already turn out to be a very needy Day One.

Joe looks damn good. He has no injury history. He is under contract thru 2018 and may well extend another couple years. He's a Brown... the Brown. I keep him.

 

There could be some desperate teams (Seahawks for one) willing to trade 2 high picks for the last season and a half of his contact (until he's 35).  Thomas doesn't have much time left and certainly won't be as good as he is now when we're ready to contend.  Wouldn't you rather trade him to a desperate team at the deadline then use those draft picks for a LT Garett Bolles AND G Forrest Lamp/RT Taylor Moton type in the 2018 draft?  Clearing all that cap room to roll over to next season won't hurt either.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, JimboJones said:

 

There could be some desperate teams (Seahawks for one) willing to trade 2 high picks for the last season and a half of his contact (until he's 35).  Thomas doesn't have much time left and certainly won't be as good as he is now when we're ready to contend.  Wouldn't you rather trade him to a desperate team at the deadline then use those draft picks for a LT Garett Bolles AND RT Taylor Moton types in the 2018 draft?

Fuck off Newbie

JT will retire as a Brown.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Fuck off Newbie

Oh and welcome to the Board.

[Clevfan4life]

Darnolds going #1. Tough call if we have a near top pick. Do wevstay with kizer or not....personally i hope kizer wirks out so we dont have to trade up for darnold and we can actually trade down and maybe get nick bosa along with many others

[The Gipper]

15 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

Darnolds going #1. Tough call if we have a near top pick. Do wevstay with kizer or not....personally i hope kizer wirks out so we dont have to trade up for darnold and we can actually trade down and maybe get nick bosa along with many others

I don't think Nick Bosa is draft eligible.  This will have been only his second year in college. 

Prediction:  If Browns happen to have a Top Ten Pick....they may trade down to again to acquire a third first round pick next year.

That way they may have a chance to choose from among guys like Derwin James SS FSU, Tavarus McFadden CB FSU, James Washington WR OK St. , Saquon Barkley RB PSU.   (assuming they are happy to not draft a QB)

Besides QB, Arden Key DE of LSU is rated the best prospect.   However, he is 6'6 238.  He sounds like a Barkevious Mingo clone.   Garrett is like 272-275 lbs.

[Clevfan4life]

Gah!! Ur right.....shit by the time nicks eligible joey will be coming off his rookie contract.......🤔

[Tour2ma]

5 hours ago, JimboJones said:

There could be some desperate teams (Seahawks for one) willing to trade 2 high picks for the last season and a half of his contact (until he's 35).  Thomas doesn't have much time left and certainly won't be as good as he is now when we're ready to contend.  Wouldn't you rather trade him to a desperate team at the deadline then use those draft picks for a LT Garett Bolles AND G Forrest Lamp/RT Taylor Moton type in the 2018 draft?  Clearing all that cap room to roll over to next season won't hurt either.

I acknowledge every point you make... I just don't agree with them.

There were supposedly desperate teams last year as well.

There's a chance Joe can play at a high level for 4 more years... many great LTs have. The cap shouldn't be an issue by then, but if we land our QB I expect us to contend by then. Speaking of cap issues... Seattle has just under $4.4mm in 2017 space. Not enough for half of Joe's 2017 contract.

EDIT: Above should have read: The cap shouldn't yet be an issue by then...

OL picks are getting tougher and tougher to nail... I know... I look at them. Dion Dawkins was my #1 in the Class of 2017. Moton was OK... Lamp better, but had issues. Bolles? Never really got into him. I am surprised he's being used at LT, but seems to be fairing fairly well there for DNV.

[wargograw]

So if Kizer works out, which positions would you want addressed with our 1st rounders, if you had your druthers?

[Tour2ma]

12 minutes ago, wargograw said:

So if Kizer works out, which positions would you want addressed with our 1st rounders, if you had your druthers?

Not quite there yet, war... in part due to the premise, but just not enough data on what we have... or what is going to be in the draft and available when Day One.

Another Edge? CB? MLB? WR? All possible, maybe even probable needs, but I can't say for sure let alone in what order the need and talent will fall.

Could even be a RB in the mix... but I'll never admit that to Ag.

[hoorta]

52 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I acknowledge every point you make... I just don't agree with them.

There were supposedly desperate teams last year as well.

There's a chance Joe can play at a high level for 4 more years... many great LTs have. The cap shouldn't be an issue by then, but if we land our QB I expect us to contend by then. Speaking of cap issues... Seattle has just under $4.4mm in 2017 space. Not enough for half of Joe's 2017 contract.

OL picks are getting tougher and tougher to nail... I know... I look at them. Dion Dawkins was my #1 in the Class of 2017. Moton was OK... Lamp better, but had issues. Bolles? Never really got into him. I am surprised he's being used at LT, but seems to be fairing fairly well there for DNV.

My take is- if anyone deserves the right to retire as a Brown- it's Joe Thomas. Both Bitonio and\or (hopefully) Coleman can slide to LT when Joe hangs 'em up. 

Screw the Moneyball approach in this case. Thomas could long ago have demanded a trade to get out of the Football Hell that's been the Browns since he was drafted and go to a winning team- but he didn't. HOF level performance & loyalty should be rewarded. 

PS saw on the PD Joe needs 4 more snaps to make it to 10,000 straight. Let that one settle in for a minute. We're talking the Cal Ripken of Football.

[JimboJones]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I acknowledge every point you make... I just don't agree with them.

There were supposedly desperate teams last year as well.

There's a chance Joe can play at a high level for 4 more years... many great LTs have. The cap shouldn't be an issue by then, but if we land our QB I expect us to contend by then. Speaking of cap issues... Seattle has just under $4.4mm in 2017 space. Not enough for half of Joe's 2017 contract.

OL picks are getting tougher and tougher to nail... I know... I look at them. Dion Dawkins was my #1 in the Class of 2017. Moton was OK... Lamp better, but had issues. Bolles? Never really got into him. I am surprised he's being used at LT, but seems to be fairing fairly well there for DNV.

From what I hear, 2017 draft had a really weak OL class while the 2018 is supposed to be the opposite.  CBSSPORTS just had the Browns taking LT Orlando Brown Jr 1st overall in a way too early mock draft for what it's worth.  Lot's of highly graded OL's expected next draft.

I'm not so sure about Thomas playing another 4 years let alone 4 years at a high level! Considering he's played 10k consecutive snaps and if you look at the modern era greats like Orlando Pace, Walter Jones , Jonathan Ogden, Willie Roaf ect all retired around 33 or 34 with their play declining significantly at those ages.  Though Andrew Whitworth at 35 is an exception, don't know how many career snaps he's played though. 

I look on some Seahawks forums and I see a lot of Joe Thomas proposals.  That's why I mentioned the Seahawks!  I see proposals like a 1st+2nd or 3rd+throw ins like Rees Odhiambo or Matt Tobin.  They suggest they'd make cap room by trading the underutilized Jimmy Graham and CB Jeremy Lane somewhere.  They lost their starting LT George Fant to injury a couple weeks ago and their Oline was atrocious in week 1 and has been for the past few seasons.

If they're willing to give the Browns a package like that for Thomas, I'd sure hope they jump all over it.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, wargograw said:

So if Kizer works out, which positions would you want addressed with our 1st rounders, if you had your druthers?

See my post above.  DBs, WRs. 

[Clevfan4life]

Its too early to ssy which positions need addressed. If kizer regresses as the season goes by, well...      if nassib and ogbah just suck so bad that garrett gets doubled and chipped everydown for the whole season, well....any potential stud DE's out there next year in the draft or in FA? It just remains to be seen

[Clevfan4life]

But yeah if the draft was happening next week based off what we know so far...wr's would have to be first 

[gumby73]

RB-Saquon Barkley-Penn State will be trotted out as the next Jim Brown if Browns pass..I Booked it!! in Week 2- 2017  

[MLD Woody]

On 8/30/2017 at 4:00 PM, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

 

Derwin James no matter what. 

Derwin James + Jabrill Peppers = Endless Possibilities for Williams

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, JimboJones said:

From what I hear, 2017 draft had a really weak OL class while the 2018 is supposed to be the opposite.  CBSSPORTS just had the Browns taking LT Orlando Brown Jr 1st overall in a way too early mock draft for what it's worth.  Lot's of highly graded OL's expected next draft.

I'm not so sure about Thomas playing another 4 years let alone 4 years at a high level! Considering he's played 10k consecutive snaps and if you look at the modern era greats like Orlando Pace, Walter Jones , Jonathan Ogden, Willie Roaf ect all retired around 33 or 34 with their play declining significantly at those ages.  Though Andrew Whitworth at 35 is an exception, don't know how many career snaps he's played though. 

I look on some Seahawks forums and I see a lot of Joe Thomas proposals.  That's why I mentioned the Seahawks!  I see proposals like a 1st+2nd or 3rd+throw ins like Rees Odhiambo or Matt Tobin.  They suggest they'd make cap room by trading the underutilized Jimmy Graham and CB Jeremy Lane somewhere.  They lost their starting LT George Fant to injury a couple weeks ago and their Oline was atrocious in week 1 and has been for the past few seasons.

If they're willing to give the Browns a package like that for Thomas, I'd sure hope they jump all over it.

2017 definitely not a strong OL class... Not sure what 2018 will bring.

As for the greats... Pace got hurt late in his career, Jones ended his career hurt, Ogden and Roaf had a little of both shorten their time. Even my, and most folk's, gold standard Anthony Munoz was hurt early, late and at the end. It's how most of the greats go out. But none of them had the kind of streak Joe's had. And I think they were all different styled LTs than Joe is. All strike me as having been more brute force imposers of will. Not that they did not have technique or athleticism for their size, but Joe is more of a technician. Not exactly a finesse player, but more so one than the other greats. And that should enhance his longevity.

But anything can happen in the pits. Joe may decide he's had one too many memory lapses tomorrow. At least he did not play in the head slap era...

As for offers... I'm a firm believer that you always have to answer the phone... but it'd be damn hard for me to trade Joe, unless he asked to go to a contender.

Good discussion...

[Tour2ma]

4 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Derwin James

I watched FSU's opener... I was not impressed. I know it's only one game and he hadn't seen live action in a while, but... meh.

And there is the not so little issue of the injury. So I'm unimpressed and leery... so far....

[Dutch Oven]

I'm as big a Joe Thomas fan as anyone, but if someone offered a first round pick for him I'd be hard-pressed not to consider it. This is his 11th season. He's probably on borrowed time.

[Clevfan4life]

6 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm as big a Joe Thomas fan as anyone, but if someone offered a first round pick for him I'd be hard-pressed not to consider it. This is his 11th season. He's probably on borrowed time.

Not before having his replacement on staff. I am in no mood to "yet again" get rid of a veteran player with little to no plan to competently replace him with. Ur suggesting trading the star LT in a season where we're trying to properly groom a rookie qb. "Horrible" idea unless we'd have the guaranteed 1st pick.

 

Im not taking some mid to high 1st rounder for JT when our o line is trying to find its groove. Thats just asking for a collapse of the o line cohesion

[Tour2ma]

I'll go one step further...

I want Joe to retire a Brown never having played anywhere else... and then join our staff and coach the OL. Anyone who witnessed Mitchell Schwartz's rise knows the guy can coach.

 

It'd be great if he could retire with at least one AFCN Championship banner, if not an AFC banner, if not a ring...

[Dutch Oven]

35 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

Not before having his replacement on staff. I am in no mood to "yet again" get rid of a veteran player with little to no plan to competently replace him with. Ur suggesting trading the star LT in a season where we're trying to properly groom a rookie qb. "Horrible" idea unless we'd have the guaranteed 1st pick.

 

Im not taking some mid to high 1st rounder for JT when our o line is trying to find its groove. Thats just asking for a collapse of the o line cohesion

Fair enough, which is why I said I'd consider it,  not jump on it. It's also the reason I said Left Tackle should be a high priority for the Browns in the upcoming draft.

I'd love to see him retire as a Cleveland Brown.

[wargograw]

5 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Not quite there yet, war... in part due to the premise, but just not enough data on what we have... or what is going to be in the draft and available when Day One.

Another Edge? CB? MLB? WR? All possible, maybe even probable needs, but I can't say for sure let alone in what order the need and talent will fall.

Could even be a RB in the mix... but I'll never admit that to Ag.

I'll be pissed if we have to take another d end. Hopefully Schobert fills MLB need. WR and RB sound good, especially if our defense is already a top 10 unit after this season. 

5 hours ago, hoorta said:

My take is- if anyone deserves the right to retire as a Brown- it's Joe Thomas. Both Bitonio and\or (hopefully) Coleman can slide to LT when Joe hangs 'em up. 

Screw the Moneyball approach in this case. Thomas could long ago have demanded a trade to get out of the Football Hell that's been the Browns since he was drafted and go to a winning team- but he didn't. HOF level performance & loyalty should be rewarded. 

PS saw on the PD Joe needs 4 more snaps to make it to 10,000 straight. Let that one settle in for a minute. We're talking the Cal Ripken of Football.

Forget that. He knows it's a business. 

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm as big a Joe Thomas fan as anyone, but if someone offered a first round pick for him I'd be hard-pressed not to consider it. This is his 11th season. He's probably on borrowed time.

Agreed. Would probably like a little more than a first rounder alone but I'd be listening. 

[JimboJones]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I'll go one step further...

I want Joe to retire a Brown never having played anywhere else... and then join our staff and coach the OL. Anyone who witnessed Mitchell Schwartz's rise knows the guy can coach.

 

It'd be great if he could retire with at least one AFCN Championship banner, if not an AFC banner, if not a ring...

You're a way more loyal fan than me. I just care about getting some value for him before he packs it in ...only if they're out of the playoff picture by the trade deadline though.

How would you feel about getting the draft picks for him,  then getting him back after the 2018 season (when he's a free agent) IF he's still got some juice left AND our new 1st round LT pick hasn't worked out? Realistically, after the 2018 season should be when the Browns are LEGIT contenders if all the young guys develop properly...

[Orion]

I love Joe Thomas and want him to retire a Brown.......but at this point in his career, if someone offered a 1st round pick, you probably have to leap at it immediately.  

[jcam222]

Trading Thomas gets a big fuck no from me. The only acceptable circumstance would be if he wanted the trade. That guy has earned the right to be here until he retires. He's never but he's that we sick and as easy as it would have been to sit out games he's broken consecutive snap records. He IS the Browns. 

[Dutch Oven]

15 minutes ago, jcam222 said:

Trading Thomas gets a big fuck no from me. The only acceptable circumstance would be if he wanted the trade. That guy has earned the right to be here until he retires. He's never but he's that we sick and as easy as it would have been to sit out games he's broken consecutive snap records. He IS the Browns. 

Actually, didn't he ask for a trade a few years ago, when the Browns almost dealt him to Denver?

[gumby73]

55 minutes ago, JimboJones said:

You're a way more loyal fan than me. 

Welcome Aboard Jim-blow-Jones..But your out your damn mind..This conversation should not ever happen till JT starts the conversation..JT has earned that much at least from this organization.   https://imgur.com/XT7wINt I will trade you Chris Tabor for nuthin

[JimboJones]

23 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Welcome Aboard Jim-blow-Jones..But your out your damn mind..This conversation should not ever happen till JT starts the conversation..JT has earned that much at least from this organization.   https://imgur.com/XT7wINt 

 

Also: