The Hoorta goes Ghoolie...

[hoorta]

Just keep telling me Deshone Kizer is going to improve. Been preaching it from the day we drafted him. He's the same Nortre Dame BUM! I saw in college. He sucks, and sucks bad. I'd bet his ESPN total QBR had to be approaching zero after a couple interceptions and strip sacks. Even the Browns postgame guys said flat out "he's just not good enough". Welcome to the club guys- just a little slow on the uptake. 

You want to win a game this year? I'm on to PO train- bench Kizer and start Hogan- he's our best chance if you don't want to go down with the Lions at 0-16. 

 

 

[Mark O]

1 minute ago, hoorta said:

Just keep telling me Deshone Kizer is going to improve. Been preaching it from the day we drafted him. He's the same Nortre Dame BUM! I saw in college. He sucks, and sucks bad. I'd bet his ESPN total QBR had to be approaching zero after a couple interceptions and strip sacks. Even the Browns postgame guys said flat out "he's just not good enough". Welcome to the club guys- just a little slow on the uptake. 

You want to win a game this year? I'm on to PO train- bench Kizer and start Hogan- he's our best chance if you don't want to go down with the Lions at 0-16.

I don't disagree that Kizer isn't the answer and that he's not that good.  But he's still the best we have on the roster till we draft someone next year.   The Jags defense has made QB's a whole lot better than Kizer look really really bad, see the 5 picks for Raplessburger against that defense or how average Rivers looked last week.   It was going to be a hard test for Kizer today, he probably shouldn't be starting anyways but he's the best we've got unfortunately.   Next year we will get to start with another new QB and we will see how that goes. 

[Dutch Oven]

The idea of Hogan trying to throw passes in a mid-November game on the lakefront with his noodle arm made me giggle.

[nickers]

Just now, Dutch Oven said:

The idea of Hogan trying to throw passes in a mid-November game on the lakefront with his noodle arm made me giggle.

Didnt seem to affect Brian Sipe any... and his arm was weaker than Hogans....

[Dutch Oven]

2 minutes ago, nickers said:

Didnt seem to affect Brian Sipe any... and his arm was weaker than Hogans....

It's not 1980 anymore, though.

Hogan couldn't throw an out pattern vs the Texans in a climate-controlled environment in Houston.

[Mark O]

1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said:

It's not 1980 anymore, though.

Hogan couldn't throw an out pattern vs the Texans in a climate-controlled environment in Houston.

But I thought he could put up Matt Ryan numbers if he had the same receivers?

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, Mark O said:

But I thought he could put up Matt Ryan numbers if he had the same receivers?

He could have won the state championship if his coach had just put him in.

Without a doubt, though, Hogan could throw a football over that mountain.

[nickers]

2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

It's not 1980 anymore, though.

Hogan couldn't throw an out pattern vs the Texans in a climate-controlled environment in Houston.

Your right it's not.. Let Me educate you... in 1980.. it was tougher to play qb because they didnt enforce the rules like they do now... receivers and backs got mugged continually...  And they allowed spear heading.. get back to us when you brush up on Football history...

[Dutch Oven]

10 minutes ago, nickers said:

Your right it's not.. Let Me educate you... in 1980.. it was tougher to play qb because they didnt enforce the rules like they do now... receivers and backs got mugged continually...  And they allowed spear heading.. get back to us when you brush up on Football history...

First, it's "You're", not "Your".  Your attempt to educate me started off with a bang.

Second, you are correct, the rules definitely benefited the defense in that era in comparison to now. I will counter that today's players are far more athletic, making windows to complete passes smaller than they were nearly 40 years ago. It's similar to why you don't see the famed Packer sweep of the 60s anymore - the players are too fast. How many QBs with comparable arm strength to Sipe are successful today?

Third, I'll put my football history knowledge up against just about anyone on this board.

[nickers]

4 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

First, it's "You're", not "Your".  Your attempt to educate me started off with a bang.

Second, you are correct, the rules definitely benefited the defense in that era in comparison to now. I will counter that today's players are far more athletic, making windows to complete passes smaller than they were nearly 40 years ago. It's similar to why you don't see the famed Packer sweep of the 60s anymore - the players are too fast. How many QBs with comparable arm strength to Sipe are successful today?

Third, I'll put my football history knowledge up against just about anyone on this board.

Drew Brees..  P.Manning to name a couple..Brady is not exactly a long ball thrower...

[Dutch Oven]

5 minutes ago, nickers said:

Drew Brees..  P.Manning to name a couple..Brady is not exactly a long ball thrower...

Brady throws the ball with way more zip than Sipe did.

Brees played his career in San Diego and New Orlean's dome. Manning played indoors with the Colts for almost his entire career.

I just can't see a QB with a below-average arm being successful today in a bad-weather football town like Cleveland.

[stillmotion]

I never liked the Kizer pick because I wanted a more "Pro Ready" QB like Watson or even Trubinsky. Kizer was so-so at times in college, and while he had a big arm, he had accuracy issues and was never a "winner" like Wentz and Watson were. Those dudes just found ways to win games. That's one reason why I don't like Rosen this year. Dude can't figure out a way to win some games. You can blame his coach, or his defense, but great players always fine ways to win when the game is on the line. Horrible QB's crack under pressure and lose every game like Kizer. I think Kizer could probably be a backup after sitting and learning for a couple of years, but I don't get why we took him, because he's a 3 year project QB like Bortles. And at this rate, did our fans really want to wait 3 years to see if he can start for us?

Chances are that our FO didn't like any QB's this past year out of the draft which is why they didn't take Watson (just like they didn't take Wentz the year before). I think they like Rosen and we'll pick him, but I don't really like that pick. Jimmy is cool tanking, but the fans shouldn't be. He could of rostered a better QB. It's all on Jimmy in my opinion. 

[Mark O]

8 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

 

Chances are that our FO didn't like any QB's this past year out of the draft which is why they didn't take Watson (just like they didn't take Wentz the year before). I think they like Rosen and we'll pick him, but I don't really like that pick. Jimmy is cool tanking, but the fans shouldn't be. He could of rostered a better QB. It's all on Jimmy in my opinion. 

I think you're right to a certain extent about winning in college but Peyton Manning had the same knock on him coming out of college, how did that turn out for everyone?   Especially in today's college game it's hard to blame a QB for a team that loses when theres a ton of points scored. 

[stillmotion]

11 minutes ago, Mark O said:

I think you're right to a certain extent about winning in college but Peyton Manning had the same knock on him coming out of college, how did that turn out for everyone?   Especially in today's college game it's hard to blame a QB for a team that loses when theres a ton of points scored. 

Peyton manning had flawless work ethic. Flawless. I've talked to many people that watch every UCLA game and live in Southern California, and not many of them at all think Rosen is a pro-ready QB. He does have an awesome arm, but most think it's his personality and work ethic that will ultimately hurt him.

At least with Baker he backs it up by winning. People are loving hating him now, but the Kansas dudes didn't even shake his hand. 

Article on Rosen

http://thebiglead.com/2017/05/04/nfl-scout-and-executive-on-josh-rosen-tons-of-issues-and-a-mess-off-the-field/

Not to say I can predict what will happen, but Rosen comes from rich parents in southern california, and mayfield comes from the midwest. I doubt Rosen, will be able to play competitively in the cold as well as a midwest QB.

[Orion]

I think Kizer was drafted more based on his 2015 season than his 2016.  

I think that the mistakes over the last two years of our current regime have proven that they THOUGHT they knew what they were doing...but actually did not.  -  Learning on the job is for Interns, not for 'top of the pyramid' decision makers.

[Alkid3]

You guys need to stop with this man crush you guys have on Hogan. He's terrible. Kessler is better than him. 

[nickers]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Brady throws the ball with way more zip than Sipe did.

Brees played his career in San Diego and New Orlean's dome. Manning played indoors with the Colts for almost his entire career.

I just can't see a QB with a below-average arm being successful today in a bad-weather football town like Cleveland.

yeah hows Case Keenum doing these days?

[stillmotion]

Just now, Alkid3 said:

You guys need to stop with this man crush you guys have on Hogan. He's terrible. Kessler is better than him. 

I'd argue Hogan is better than Kessler. and PoG does have a point.

[Mark O]

Just now, stillmotion said:

I'd argue Hogan is better than Kessler. and PoG does have a point.

Neither one of them is any good.   And neither is Kizer for that matter.

[Dutch Oven]

22 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

Not to say I can predict what will happen, but Rosen comes from rich parents in southern california, and mayfield comes from the midwest. I doubt Rosen, will be able to play competitively in the cold as well as a midwest QB.

The three best QBs in Green Bay Packers history are Bart Starr, Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers.

Starr is from Alabama, Favre is from Mississippi, Rodgers is from California. All thrived in the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field.

[stillmotion]

Just now, Mark O said:

Neither one of them is any good.   And neither is Kizer for that matter.

We need Kirk Cousins, unless Jimmy decides to settle on Spergeon Wynn 2.0 somewhere in the draft.

[Dutch Oven]

3 minutes ago, nickers said:

yeah hows Case Keenum doing these days?

The Vikings play in a dome.

Next.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

2 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

We need Kirk Cousins, unless Jimmy decides to settle on Spergeon Wynn 2.0 somewhere in the draft.

I said we should have traded for cousins years ago.  But we will never get him now.

[stillmotion]

10 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The three best QBs in Green Bay Packers history are Bart Starr, Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers.

Starr is from Alabama, Favre is from Mississippi, Rodgers is from California. All thrived in the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field.

Did they all grow up with a super rich daddy like Rosen and Manziel did?

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, stillmotion said:

Did they all grow up with a super rich daddy like Rosen and Manziel did?

What does that have to do regarding the ability to play football in bad weather?

 

[stillmotion]

Just now, Dutch Oven said:

What does that have to do regarding the ability to play football in bad weather?

 

Pretty sure work ethic is what got Brett Favre, Bart Starr, and Aaron Rodgers where they are, and that's what scouts have been complaining about with Josh Rosen.

[nickers]

13 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The Vikings play in a dome.

Next.

so you said a weak armed QB  cant make it today..  So quit makin Sheet up as you go along. And so what.. the kid doesnt play in a dome every week smarty pants!

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, stillmotion said:

Pretty sure work ethic is what got Brett Favre, Bart Starr, and Aaron Rodgers where they are, and that's what scouts have been complaining about with Josh Rosen.

And if that is true, I would be hesitant to draft him too.

There seems to be a lot of differing views on Rosen regarding his character. I like his talent, but a month ago mentioned that some things I read about him worries me. I hope to have a clearer picture of Josh Rosen in the upcoming months. On the field, there's a lot to like.

[Dutch Oven]

3 minutes ago, nickers said:

so you said a weak armed QB  cant make it today..  So quit makin Sheet up as you go along. And so what.. the kid doesnt play in a dome every week smarty pants!

First, Brees and Manning had/have average QB arms. Not weak. (With the exception of Manning at the end of his career with Denver)

And I brought up the point that the idea of Hogan making throws - in my initial post - on the lakefront in mid-November made me laugh.

But feel free to hitch your wagon to noodle-arm QBs... Colt McCoy, Brian Hoyer and Kevin Hogan thank you!

[The Gipper]

25 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

I'd argue Hogan is better than Kessler. and PoG does have a point.

I would argue the next season that we have three quarterbacks that Kaiser should be third string and that we should have two other guys in here lately a high draft pick plus maybe a little round draft pick and or we should have a veteran quarterback on this teamI would argue the next season that we have three quarterbacks that Kaiser should be third string and that we should have two other guys in here lately a high draft pick plus maybe a little round draft pick and or we should have a veteran quarterback on this team