The Process Poll

[wargograw]

13 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Sashi has shat the bed, pretty much only at QB and WR evaluations.

FIFY

[wargograw]

1. The owner is at fault because he's the one that's continually fired everyone way too fast. 

2. Nothing

3. Add an OC. Glad to see that's the plurality opinion. Would be interested to see where the 30% of people who think we can fire Hue but keep Gregg would land when told that that wasn't going to happen.

[The User from Cleveland]

1 hour ago, PoeticG said:

Hue Jackson say's he looking for leaders to step up on Offense. It's hard when the player's champion is sitting at 3rd string at QB. 

Play Kevin Hogan MAN. Crazy Kevin is the leader on this team, he's almost the elder statesman on the team and an excellent leader for a young football team. 

They players will follow Kevin to victories if Hue would just stop trying to cram Kizer down their throat. It's pretty simple bud, it's not rocket science as much as you guys would like to make it out to be. Kevin had ONE chance to make an impression and the pressure got to him that Texans game. It happens. But wake up to reality, the buzzer has been going off for weeks. 

How is he almost the elder statesman on the team. Also, "Crazy Kevin"? Lol

[D Bone]

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland/post/_/id/4286/note-to-the-haslams-here-is-how-to-fix-your-broken-organization

MOD EDIT: This was written by Tony Grossi, take it FWIW

Dire times: Since Hue Jackson brought it up, I ask: What is the Browns’ plan?

Is it self-preservation?

Keep rolling draft picks and salary cap room into the future, so that, in the name of continuity and stability, and by taking advantage of the owners’ trauma of being ridiculed for blowing it up again, everybody’s job is secured until next year, which never comes?

Or is the plan to win?

If the plan is to win, then the plan is not working. Check that. The plan is failing in such an astonishing degree that it threatens to eradicate the very fabric that bonds Cleveland to the Browns.

Generations of Browns fans are beyond disgust. They are succumbing to poisonous apathy.

In 33 years of chronicling the Browns, of warring with owners and executives and coaches, of arguing for the rightful place in the Pro Football Hall of Fame for some of the franchise’s best players, and arguing against the inclusion of one owner, of reporting on some of the city’s most heart-breaking sports moments and some of the most exhilarating victories, I can honestly say these are the most worrisome times for this franchise since Art Modell absconded the last one to Baltimore.

When Peyton Manning visited Cleveland last month for an undisclosed reason -- a Browns source said it was unrelated to the team -- Manning casually asked a native of the area about the mood of Browns fans.

I don’t know if Manning was just making conversation or if he was trying to gauge what he might be getting into if he accepted Jimmy Haslam’s assumed open invitation to rescue him and the rest of us from the incompetence that has extinguished hope in this once-great, now-tarnished franchise.

Shame on the Haslams for sinking this precious Cleveland asset to the lowest point in its history, infinitely lower than even Randy Lerner achieved.

Make it stop: I have this new recurring nightmare.

The Haslams decide to give their undefined plan another year, mostly out of fear of ridicule for blowing it up again but also because they have no alternative.

Free agency starts in March. The analytics group favors signing quarterback Tyrod Taylor, who is destined to be let go by the Buffalo Bills. Jackson favors signing Cincinnati Bengals free agent AJ McCarron.

After all the losses, all the draft-day snubs of bona-fide franchise quarterback hopefuls, after all the trade-downs and stockpiling of assets, after all the mis-evaluations and nonsensical SPARQ score comparisons, after all the Fantasy Football conversation that goes on there, the Browns’ next quarterback comes down to these two unspectacular choices?

It’s a knock-down, drag-out fight – par for the course in that toxic building. All the network insiders detail the in-fighting breathlessly. One of them wins, one of them loses. It doesn’t matter which.

The draft season comes next. USC’s Sam Darnold, like other Trojan quarterbacks before him, decides to return to the safe haven of college football. UCLA’s Josh Rosen, through his representation, informs the Browns he will not play for them.

The Browns, of course, believe him and meekly trade the first overall pick in the draft. Analytics sites will praise them for this, of course.

And with their second No. 1 pick, the one acquired from Houston when Sashi Brown hand-delivered Deshaun Watson to friend Rick Smith, the Texans’ GM, the Browns select …

Please, no …

… Heisman Trophy favorite Baker Mayfield.

The crotch-grabbing Johnny Manziel impersonator has Cleveland Browns written all over him, right? Can’t you see Haslam falling for this punk? All it takes is a well-versed text from Mayfield to an underling to make it happen.

Is this our future if the Haslams keep status quo?

Recuse yourselves, please: No one is to blame for this state of the Browns other than the Haslams. Since Dee wants to be considered an owner, she must take responsibility, too. She fell for the outside-the-box, analytics-over-football approach pitched by the head-hunter search firm Korn Ferry, too.

One of the fundamental flaws of the Haslam organization is having everybody report to them. Sashi Brown has one Haslam ear, Jackson the other. Nobody can clearly define what Paul DePodesta does, working from LaJolla, CA. Everyone wonders which Haslam will have more influence on what happens next. The set-up engenders disagreement, ego-clashing, unaccountability and ultimately Machiavellianism.

What the Haslams need to do is fill the void of team president with someone they trust – if that person exists -- and have that person reconstruct the organization for them.

The president should have proven experience in the National Football League – not baseball, basketball, hockey, truck-stopping, or anything else.

The president should hire a general manager and the president should hire a coach.

It is not relevant which one is hired first – coach or GM. The vision of the person hired first is what’s important. And the first hire should contribute to the second hire, but not mandate who it is. It’s the president’s call.

The president then presides over the bilateral football organization, rules over disputes and holds each office to its task.

The president establishes the culture and enforces it.

The Haslams stay out of the way, entertain on football Sundays and pay the bills. That is what the good owners do.

[PoeticG]

12 minutes ago, The User from Cleveland said:

How is he almost the elder statesman on the team. Also, "Crazy Kevin"? Lol

He played college for 4-5 years and won a lot of games plus this is his second year on the team, that is a lot of experience. Most of the players on our team are young and looking for leadership. Hogan can LEAD this team. Kizer finally passes Hogan in TD passes last game. 

 

Go back and watch the Texans game. Watch it. Hogan through that out flat to Duke, Duke turned and slowed then stopped on the pick 6. If Duke continues the route to where Hogan thought he was gonna be then it's a catch. The other int was to Duke as well, Duke gets pushed out of bounds by the LB and it should have been Defensive pass interference but turned into a pick. The last int was just downfield heave to try and get some chunk yardage before the half to close the gap, turned out to be a bad comeback by the WR, didn't comeback to the ball or stop the DB from jumping him. 

 

All in all, Hogan tried to keep pace with the Texans when they had just scored like 80 points the past 3 weeks and we were already struggling on offense, part of the reason Kevin started that game. We had the 2 best WRs already not playing because of injury and actually got sent home. Hostile environment. Too much pressure all at once. Our defense gave up some huge plays and a lot of points, that's not all on Hogan. That game sucked top to bottom. But don't exaggerate and try to pin it all on Hogan. Hogan has been the only positive player at the QB position this year. Check the stats.

[PoeticG]

Crazy Kevin? lol

Here let me try it this way: It's crazy that Kevin is the leader on this team and he's the guy that guys will follow and fight for, but coach has him behind Kessler and Kizer, both of his boys.

[PoeticG]

Just take a look at Zane Gonzales, dude was shanking the kicks left and right, missing extra points and everything. He worked his way through it. He's been doing better now though, and think about it, he's just a kicker, Hogan had a fired up Texans Defense and an explosive Offense to try and overcome as well as the nerves... everyone is entitled to a bad game.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, D Bone said:

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland/post/_/id/4286/note-to-the-haslams-here-is-how-to-fix-your-broken-organization

Free agency starts in March. The analytics group favors signing quarterback Tyrod Taylor, who is destined to be let go by the Buffalo Bills. Jackson favors signing Cincinnati Bengals free agent AJ McCarron.

After all the losses, all the draft-day snubs of bona-fide franchise quarterback hopefuls, after all the trade-downs and stockpiling of assets, after all the mis-evaluations and nonsensical SPARQ score comparisons, after all the Fantasy Football conversation that goes on there, the Browns’ next quarterback comes down to these two unspectacular choices?

The draft season comes next. USC’s Sam Darnold, like other Trojan quarterbacks before him, decides to return to the safe haven of college football. UCLA’s Josh Rosen, through his representation, informs the Browns he will not play for them.

The Haslams stay out of the way, entertain on football Sundays and pay the bills. That is what the good owners do.

I have to hope this is a bunch of unsubstantiated Grossi BS. Mr. Poison Pen at work....

Tyrod Taylor or AJ McCarron might push me over the edge. Draft Rosen anyway, let the chips fall where they may....  

[flyingfooldoug]

Stosh answers to the Haslam's and has their ear. Berry answers to the Haslam's and has their ear. Pudpounder answers to the Haslam's and has their ear. Hue answers to the Haslam's and has their ear.  Pretty Shmucked up huh? That pretty much sums up the FO anymore. What a joke the Haslam's turned out to be. 

 Unless they want the team to lose. After all, if you bet against the Browns every game since 2015 against the Vegas spread, you would be very wealthy by now.  You win like 77% of the time. Maybe the Haslam's have a scam going like they ran at flying J? I mean ...once a thief.....

[Nero]

About Question #1, and due to what Tour and Hoorta have said, I'm going to develop it. 

Do you think that there would be so much talk about The Process, and rumours about Peyton Manning and QBs and all, if this team was 4-6, or even 2-8? I think that if that was the case, there would be an obvious improvement, as last year the only game won was on mid December. But reality is that we are 0-10, and everyone is wondering what will happen next offseason, who is going to get fired, if any, or who is going to come to help with the team -whether on FO or on the coaching staff. 

Is it players fault for not trying to hard? Is it coach's fault, for not getting the best out of his players/staff members? Is it Front Office's fault, for not providing a good enough roster? 

Anyway, first question aside, I want to do a little...

 

POLL ANALYSIS after 24 hours of voting

36 members voted:

Question #2: What would you do about the Front Office?

A. Nothing ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7 votes (19,44%)

B. Add some consultants/ talent evaluators------------------------------------------------------------ 13 votes (36,11%)

C. Keep the structure, get a new GM--------------------------------------------------------------------  8 votes (22,22%)

D. Fire them all, get a new GM---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8 votes (22,22%)

 

I considere that here the the outcome would be tight. First 2 possibilities represent doing minor changes or no changes at all, and 20 voted this option (55,56%), while 2 last answers represent a major change or shutting everything down and 16 voted this option (44,44%).

I don't know how much would prevail of the so called Process if the GM changed while keeping the whole structure. If everything would follow the same course, this would mean that 28 votes (77,78%) would keep the process against 8 votes (22,22%) that wouldn't keep it. 

 

 

Question #3: What would you do about the Coaching Staff?

A. Nothing ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5 votes (13,89%)

B. Add an OC or someone to call the plays, that's the only missing piece --------------------------- 15 votes (41,67%)

C. Change the DC, that's the real problem -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 votes (0%)

D. Fire Hue Jackson, but try to keep Gregg Williams as DC --------------------------------------------------- 11 votes (30,56%)

F. Fire them all ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5 votes (13,89%)

 

About the coaching staff, 20 votes (55,56%) were in favor of doing minor changes or no changes at all against 16 votes (44,44%) that would fire The Head Coach

 

Overall, I think that the opinions are really divided, because the most popular answer in both questions doesn't reach a simple majority (you use this term, don't you?) over 50% .

I say this because even when some of the repliers feel confident that their opinion is the most popular, well, being under 50% it's not something to cheer about, lol. 

If the Process depended also in the coach, and wouldn't continue with his firing, it would mean that almost half of the Board (44,44%) would shut it down, whereas 55,56% would keep it going.

If people keep voting and stating their opinions, I will do something similar to this very post tomorrow. Thank you everyone for your time, I'm really interested in all that's been said/voted!!

 

[gumby73]

Hue once had a so called OC here last season. Named Pep Hamilton.. That walked to Michigan as a true OC, cause Hue basically downgraded Pep to a QB's coach. Pep's job title here was Assistant HC-Offense. Hue now has put in place a simple QB coach in David Lee..Seems Hue, is the only one that Hue can really trust, to bring a young group of below average QB's, into his own offensive system? Tying in his "fools no one" play calling.. (good luck stealing hues keys with no fire, Pep's fine with running the air out the ball, at U of M )

[flyingfooldoug]

It's said that you can't do your job if you can't trust every one around you to do their job.

 BK....Learning to Scramble.

And scrambling is the opposite of running. 

 Every true Browns fan should read Bernie's book. It really is insightful.  He's a true winner. God bless him.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Polls are great and all, but I sincerely doubt that Haslam reads TBB and would base his decision on the poll.

[flyingfooldoug]

1 minute ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Polls are great and all, but I sincerely doubt that Haslam reads TBB and would base his decision on the poll.

I'm beginning to believe that he can't read...period

[Nero]

4 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Polls are great and all, but I sincerely doubt that Haslam reads TBB and would base his decision on the poll.

This is not for the Haslams, this is just so we can see what TBB members think about the Process, since they're not doing any kind of poll with the fanbase. Also, there are many opinions that are shared in the threads, so I just wanted to quantify how's the general vibe. 

[flyingfooldoug]

So Jim Haslam is from Tennessee. 

So, if he married his wife in Kentucky, then divorced her in Ohio....are they still brother and sister?????..

[Dutch Oven]

8 hours ago, PoeticG said:

Hue Jackson say's he looking for leaders to step up on Offense. It's hard when the player's champion is sitting at 3rd string at QB. 

Play Kevin Hogan MAN. Crazy Kevin is the leader on this team, he's almost the elder statesman on the team and an excellent leader for a young football team. 

They players will follow Kevin to victories if Hue would just stop trying to cram Kizer down their throat. It's pretty simple bud, it's not rocket science as much as you guys would like to make it out to be. Kevin had ONE chance to make an impression and the pressure got to him that Texans game. It happens. But wake up to reality, the buzzer has been going off for weeks. 

 

[flyingfooldoug]

5 hours ago, hoorta said:

I have to hope this is a bunch of unsubstantiated Grossi BS. Mr. Poison Pen at work....

Tyrod Taylor or AJ McCarron might push me over the edge. Draft Rosen anyway, let the chips fall where they may....  

These things have been reported other places too. Sign a carpart, draft a running QB in Jackson. It's not just Grossi.

[Ghoolie]

15 hours ago, PoeticG said:

What we should do is demote Hue Jackson to OC. He can do okay if that's all he has to worry about and doesn't get the say on who plays. The HC should give him the players and say, make THIS work, period. That is his only chance at this point. He doesn't make the right decisions on who plays and where and when. The Head Coach should have his hand on both the Offense and Defense, hell even some special teams here and there, but Hue doesn't have a clue what is happening on the defensive side of the ball. 

If Hue won't take the OC job then tell him to take a hike and good luck finding another team willing to give a 1-25 HC another chance after the debacle that follows him from gameday to gameday. 

 

You are out of your fukcing mind. Seriously bro, what universe do you live in? No goddamned HC is going to take a demotion to OC and then stay on the team he once was HC. Why even post schidt like this? This is not something that is ever going to happen, it is not even a good idea. WTF man, your thoughts here are goofier than the Sumo thread.

[Orion]

On 11/21/2017 at 12:41 PM, Tour2ma said:

Good poll, Nero... but unfortunately I cannot answer a single question in it without forcing a fit that does not represent my takes.

That's my take also.

Depot & Sashi agreed that Wentz would be crap....so...I'd flush them both.

I don't like Hue's game-day decision making......so I'd have already been talking with people about being my next coach.  If I can't get anyone to commit that they'd be my coach then I'd keep Hue for another year.

PoeticG - What we should do is demote Hue Jackson to OC.

Man-o-man.  There just isn't any defending that statement......unless you're talking about Hue going to another team...which you aren't.

[wargograw]

Once Grossi established the false dichotomy at the beginning of his article, the entire rest of it was a monumental waste of time. Yes we want to win, no we don’t care about scraping out 3 wins a year at the expense of the roster construction we’re trying to accomplish. 

 

If you’re going to be against this FO, at least argue against what they’re trying to do, not some straw man you made up. 

[Orion]

21 hours ago, D Bone said:

Dire times: Since Hue Jackson brought it up, I ask: What is the Browns’ plan?

Well...apparently, the plan was to let Mitchell Schwartz walk because of their BIG egos...while we KNEW we were losing Alex Mack.  Thus, our OL went straight into the $hitter, we broke all of our QB's and even broke Clipboard Jesus.  -  That was brilliance right there.

And their plan was also to evaluate Wentz as NOT being a top 20 QB in this league...and giving Houston THEIR QB.  All the while WE were / are a team floundering without a franchise QB.  -  That's EVALUATING  brilliance being demonstrated.

...and we should want to CONTINUE with these people making decisions?  

It was an interesting concept.  I don't blame Haslam for thinking outside of the box.  But apparently we need people that can evaluate FOOTBALL players and not baseball players and district attorneys.

Let's face it...these guys took a 3 or 4 win team and made them such that they can't win 2 games in two years.  Try as you might, you cannot make an excuse that a rational person would accept for that.

 

 

 

[Ghoolie]

I went to McDonalds today. They fukced up my order. I am going back tomorrow. This is what a rebuild looks like.

[hoorta]

1 minute ago, Ghoolie said:

I went to McDonalds today. They fukced up my order. I am going back tomorrow. This is what a rebuild looks like.

More like I'll go back to the same Mickey Ds when they give me change for a five after I hand them a ten, and the dumb a$$ Manager sticks up for the employee. Or the window goober says, "you mean I  have to go in the back to get you a pack of salt? When I asked for one. 

Not making this up Tom. & how hard is it to figure out Double Cheeseburger, no mustard? 

[wargograw]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

Well...apparently, the plan was to let Mitchell Schwartz walk because of their BIG egos...while we KNEW we were losing Alex Mack.  Thus, our OL went straight into the $hitter, we broke all of our QB's and even broke Clipboard Jesus.  -  That was brilliance right there.

And their plan was also to evaluate Wentz as NOT being a top 20 QB in this league...and giving Houston THEIR QB.  All the while WE were / are a team floundering without a franchise QB.  -  That's EVALUATING  brilliance being demonstrated.

...and we should want to CONTINUE with these people making decisions?  

It was an interesting concept.  I don't blame Haslam for thinking outside of the box.  But apparently we need people that can evaluate FOOTBALL players and not baseball players and district attorneys.

Let's face it...these guys took a 3 or 4 win team and made them such that they can't win 2 games in two years.  Try as you might, you cannot make an excuse that a rational person would accept for that.

 

 

 

Coleman is as good as Schwartz. Tretter slightly worse than Mack though Mack was not good in his last year here at all. Zeitler is better than Greco. The other two are stillthere. What exactly are you complaining about?

[D Bone]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

Let's face it...these guys took a 3 or 4 win team and made them such that they can't win 2 games in two years.  Try as you might, you cannot make an excuse that a rational person would accept for that.

I know of at least one who continues to try...... 

[Marc1971]

The process.

Our record: 1-25

Worst ever over 2 seasons:

76-77 Bucs 2-26

08-09 Lions 2-30

Worst ever over 3 seasons: 

07-08-09 Rams 6-42

Good job, everyone... /s

Oh, for a more fair comparison with the Bucs we need to take out our last 2 results of last year, and presto, we're 0-24.

[Marc1971]

The answer to the poll is very simple. The dumb crook Jimmy H is most to blame.

[mjp28]

8 hours ago, hoorta said:

More like I'll go back to the same Mickey Ds when they give me change for a five after I hand them a ten, and the dumb a$$ Manager sticks up for the employee. Or the window goober says, "you mean I  have to go in the back to get you a pack of salt? When I asked for one. 

Not making this up Tom. & how hard is it to figure out Double Cheeseburger, no mustard? 

Burger King screwedup our pre-thanksgiving meal, burger and fries order yesterday evening.......real tough order two whoppers NO catchup. God bless America and those who will be running it soon. 

[Orion]

10 hours ago, wargograw said:

Coleman is as good as Schwartz. Tretter slightly worse than Mack though Mack was not good in his last year here at all. Zeitler is better than Greco. The other two are stillthere. What exactly are you complaining about?

Coleman was NOT as good as Schwartz.  He was a rookie.  -  Sure, they scrambled during the following offseason to try and correct what they did wrong.  But I would like people that know better in the FIRST place.  No?  That wouldn't be a good idea for a PROFESSIONAL football team?