The Process Poll

[Nero]

I don’t know if they are doing this in Berea, but I want to evaluate how everyone in this Board feels about The Process right now.

 This poll has to be made considering YOU have to make the decisions, and those decisions have their consequences. For example, if you fire the GM, probably you would shut everything down. If you are OK firing either the coach or the FO and you don’t really care who gets fired as long as some changes are made, then make your mind up before voting so we can know what would you do.  

 I know it’s midseason, but I wanted to quantify how many people think one thing or another, and what would they do if the team was in their hands. That’s why I’ve tried to put every possibility in the poll, so everyone has a word.

I’m sorry if there are missing possibilities.  

The poll is single choice question and private.  

I’m not going to keep talking so this poll is as neutral as possible. Thanks for your time!

[flyingfooldoug]

Look at the owner's hiring record with pilot flying J and the Browns.

 Every exec at flying J confessed to crimes or are on trial. Every exec for the Browns...proven losers. Even the Jags got better when Jimmah hired sashi brown to run his team. 

 

[miktoxic]

i think 'the process' was to hire people (based on their knowledge of #s...........hmmmm.....in their thirties, cuz god knows we all knew everything when we were 24) and to try and hold onto a franchise as it's fan base dwindles, ticket sales go down and player dysfunction runs rampant was and is a noble cause.....yet watching huge franchise players slip through your fingers because of ur commitment to # guys must be eating a hole thru ur stomach like a handle of smirnoff every other day.

haslam is a big step up from the lerners but jimmah, don't leave a game on a board room table. and Shmuck peyton manning. i'd hire herm edwards over some turkey neck papa johns fag any day of the week for advice.

 

[TexasAg1969]

FO has done their share of swing and miss, but Hue is not a gameday coach either. Don't blow it up, add to it with OC and more better evaluators of true talent in the FO.

And if these bastards "collectively" miss on Rosen, fire them all.

[Dutch Oven]

A non-Kevin Hogan themed poll? I'll be damned!

[LogicIsForSquares]

1 minute ago, TexasAg1969 said:

FO has done their share of swing and miss, but Hue is not a gameday coach either. Don't blow it up, add to it with OC and more better evaluators of true talent in the FO.

And if these bastards "collectively" miss on Rosen, fire them all.

I think they will consider the picks being more valuable than the QB again. This is the "we need 3 Hondas and not a Lambo" FO. They may relent just so they can have a chance of retaining their jobs.

[LondonBrown]

2 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

I think they will consider the picks being more valuable than the QB again. This is the "we need 3 Hondas and not a Lambo" FO. They may relent just so they can have a chance of retaining their jobs.

They didn’t trade down from the Garrett pick they’re certainly not going to trade down if they believe a QB is worth it. 

They have traded up a few times, including back into the first round. 

It’s a myth that all they do is trade down, but the truth doesn’t seem to be welcome when it comes to the Browns. 

[LogicIsForSquares]

45 minutes ago, LondonBrown said:

They didn’t trade down from the Garrett pick they’re certainly not going to trade down if they believe a QB is worth it. 

They have traded up a few times, including back into the first round. 

It’s a myth that all they do is trade down, but the truth doesn’t seem to be welcome when it comes to the Browns. 

They didn't trade out of the Garrett pick because no one is going to offer a king's ransom for a DE. They had a shot at Wentz and thought the picks were more valuable. To the point that Depodesta didn't even consider Wentz a "top 20" QB. We shall see if they pull the trigger on a QB this go around or opt for picks again.

[LogicIsForSquares]

Also, if we are discussing "the truth", this FO and coach are awful. Sashi has the right strategy but it puts you in the position of having to hit on more of those accrued picks. You can't strip down the roster then expect to have a margin of error come draft time. Sashi has shat the bed, most notably at QB and WR evaluations.

[LondonBrown]

8 minutes ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

You can't strip down the roster then expect to have a margin of error come draft time. 

You're expecting the FO to hit on every pick then. Almost impossible and is just not feasible. 

[LogicIsForSquares]

Just now, LondonBrown said:

You're expecting the FO to hit on every pick then. Almost impossible and is just not feasible. 

Not every pick. That is impossible. However, Louis, Higgins, and Payton are garbage. Coleman is made of glass. They found a way to use a wide net but catch zero fish. Random chance could have had better results. 

Sashi chose a path that makes it that you have to hit on more than most. No one forced him to strip down the roster then try to build almost primarily through the draft. All of his eggs in one basket. If the front office stands as it does today, I expect him to produce a C grade draft and be gone after another dog turd of a season. 

[LondonBrown]

Years, decades of 3-6 wins forced them to strip it down. 

[The Gipper]

We are fans....we can do nothing....say nothing...know nothing.

 

[Tour2ma]

Good poll, Nero... but unfortunately I cannot answer a single question in it without forcing a fit that does not represent my takes.

1. Who would you say is the principal responsible for the team’s current situation?

My answer has to be, with the possible exception of the players, "All of the above", because the FO, Ownership and, yes, even the Staff signed onto this approach.

2. What would you do about the Front Office?

While "Nothing" comes close here, my unrestricted answer is, "Let them continue to make the changes they deem appropriate." Replacing under-performing Scouts and players heads this list something your second alternative hints at, but is too broad.

3. What would you do about the Coaching Staff?

Here again, "Add an OC (etc.)..." comes close, but I can't be that prescriptive at this point. "Focus Hue on his HC duties by adding staff," is about as prescriptive as I can get. OC is a potential route, but so too is a Bench Coach or maybe a Special Assistant. Have to get Hue off his "control thing"; his hands out of at least one Offensive pie. Right now he is:

1. HC
2. Staff Representative to the Consensus Process
3. OC
4. Playcaller
5. Clock Manager
6. QB "Guru"

I tell him, "You are the HC of this team and, as such, the Staff's rep to the process. You can pick one more role."

 

Told you this poll stuff would be easy...

 

[LogicIsForSquares]

1 hour ago, LondonBrown said:

Years, decades of 3-6 wins forced them to strip it down. 

"Forced them". I think there is a saying about babies and bathwater that could apply here.

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, LondonBrown said:

Years, decades of 3-6 wins forced them to strip it down. 

3-6 wins is a fantasy at this point, we’re now circling the drain.

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Also, if we are discussing "the truth", this FO and coach are awful. Sashi has the right strategy but it puts you in the position of having to hit on more of those accrued picks. You can't strip down the roster then expect to have a margin of error come draft time. Sashi has shat the bed, most notably at QB and WR evaluations.

15 yards for Faulty Math... For any fixed percentage of hits in the draft, more picks = more hits...

 

15 more for continuing the myth of Sashi evaluating talent... The best leaders of consensus processes bring no opinions at all into their facilitation of the process, and on occasions that they may have an opinion, they ask permission of the group to even share it.

Every other uttereance they make, every testing question they ask, has to in the end net out as straight down the middle neutral. Any thumb on the scale detected again needs to be called out by the group.

This is why Sashi, a "non-football guy" is better than any former player/coach/GM football guy for this process. Install football "knowledge" at the top of this approach, and it will never be what it can be.

A few more and you'll be first and 99...

 

Aside to D Bone: The above is part of the fuller explanation/answer I owe you.

[LogicIsForSquares]

6 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

15 yards for Faulty Math... For any fixed percentage of hits in the draft, more picks = more hits...

 

15 more for continuing the myth of Sashi evaluating talent... The best leaders of consensus processes bring no opinions at all into their facilitation of the process, and on occasions that they may have an opinion, they ask permission of the group to even share it.

Every other uttereance they make, every testing question they ask, has to in the end net out as straight down the middle neutral. Any thumb on the scale detected again needs to be called out by the group.

This is why Sashi, a "non-football guy" is better than any former player/coach/GM football guy for this process. Install football "knowledge" at the top of this approach, and it will never be what it can be.

A few more and you'll be first and 99...

 

Aside to D Bone: The above is part of the fuller explanation/answer I owe you.

If Sashi is the final say on issues in the front office, I would presume that covers draft picks. If Sashi is indeed not involved in talent evaluation, why did he and Depodesta go to see Rosen v. Darnold? Neither one is a scout.

[LogicIsForSquares]

Tour, you are also presuming that Sashi is a good leader of a consensus process.

[mjp28]

Kind of a diverse set of opinions here as well should be this is not really a simple problem more a systematic problem which has caused a climate of losing. 

Dynamite everything and start over? New scheme(s), coaches, players? Generally in these situations you start at the top but where first? New owners?

Stay tuned this might be even better than the Young & the Restless........which the wife and I are watching now. 

[Browns1216]

Bring in Bernie Kosar for OC.  He can still read defenses and would be good to have around, if not as an OC then a QB coach for these young QBs

[stillmotion]

Lol, nice poll Nero. I think it's funny that the poll proves majority of people agree with me.

That Jimmy is responsible, Hue needs an OC for this to work, and that we need to add consultants or talent evaluators to correctly make the right decisions on all of the draft capital we have, all stuff I've been preaching.

[Ghoolie]

8 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

Look at the owner's hiring record with pilot flying J and the Browns.

 Every exec at flying J confessed to crimes or are on trial. Every exec for the Browns...proven losers. Even the Jags got better when Jimmah hired sashi brown to run his team. 

 

Fire them all. Sashi = Sashit

 

[Tour2ma]

Yeah... effin' hilareous...

2 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

If Sashi is the final say on issues in the front office, I would presume that covers draft picks. If Sashi is indeed not involved in talent evaluation, why did he and Depodesta go to see Rosen v. Darnold? Neither one is a scout.

Frequent Flyer miles?  Seriously, I'm going guess they had more than a few scouts there... and met with them. Maybe some other GMs as well. again execs that sit in their office are more prone to fail... and get bored to death. Plus getting away from the local press for a weekend in LA? Sounds like heaven to me. Bet the wives went, too.

Sashi has the power of the final say. It is important that he has authority commensurate with his position. It is equally... no... it is more important that he exercises that power as little as possible. He may or may not have ever used it. If he has, it was likely in the handling of a very serious disagreement around a decision. And it was far more likely in dealing with individuals' behaviors within the process than it was deciding the issue.

2 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Tour, you are also presuming that Sashi is a good leader of a consensus process.

Nope... just taking the word of the man... the big boss... Jimmah! Said in his intro of Sashi when he named him the GM that he was a consensus builder like no one he had ever worked with before. Said in his presser when he announced the firings of Pet and Farmer:

" Effective today or tonight I should say, Sashi Brown will be our executive vice president of football operations. Sashi, I believe, is the right person to do this for the Cleveland Browns. He’s been in the NFL for 10 plus years, has been involved in the cap and has been heavily involved in our football administration and operations for the last year or two. He’s very smart, very organized, good at systems and processes and an outstanding team player. "

And even I had forgotten that the original plan as detailed in that same presser was:

"We’ll begin the search for the head coach right away. There are several key criteria we’re looking for in our head coach. The first is intelligence. We need somebody that’s smart. Obviously, we need somebody who’s a strong leader, somebody who is collaborative and can work well with others, a good team player, if you will. An individual that can put together a good staff, that’s incredibly important in today’s NFL as a complex as the game is, and somebody who has an intense desire to win and improve every day. The search committee will be made up of Jed Hughes with Korn Ferry... an international search firm... along with Sashi Brown, Dee and myself will head up the search committee. We’ll go to work right away. "

And here's the really cool, forgotten bit with the Sashi praise repeated for context... and emphasis...

"Once we hire a head coach, then we’ll go out and hire a GM. Let me talk about why we’re going to do this. Effective today or tonight I should say, Sashi Brown will be our executive vice president of football operations. Sashi, I believe, is the right person to do this for the Cleveland Browns. He’s been in the NFL for 10 plus years, has been involved in the cap and has been heavily involved in our football administration and operations for the last year or two. He’s very smart, very organized, good at systems and processes and an outstanding team player. He’s also very strategic so we will use those skills and working for him will be a GM whose primary job will be talent acquisition."

So the original plan was to do what the peanut gallery here wants to do now... and we didn't... somewhere along the way a better idea developed.

And Jimmah bought into it...

I'll dig up the "consensus" endorsement comments later, if I have time, but trust me... I'm not assuming a thing.

 

I will sleep well tonite.

[Browns149]

Fire EVERYONE

[LogicIsForSquares]

7 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Yeah... effin' hilareous...

Frequent Flyer miles?  Seriously, I'm going guess they had more than a few scouts there... and met with them. Maybe some other GMs as well. again execs that sit in their office are more prone to fail... and get bored to death. Plus getting away from the local press for a weekend in LA? Sounds like heaven to me. Bet the wives went, too.

Sashi has the power of the final say. It is important that he has authority commensurate with his position. It is equally... no... it is more important that he exercises that power as little as possible. He may or may not have ever used it. If he has, it was likely in the handling of a very serious disagreement around a decision. And it was far more likely in dealing with individuals' behaviors within the process than it was deciding the issue.

Nope... just taking the word of the man... the big boss... Jimmah! Said in his intro of Sashi when he named him the GM that he was a consensus builder like no one he had ever worked with before. Said in his presser when he announced the firings of Pet and Farmer:

" Effective today or tonight I should say, Sashi Brown will be our executive vice president of football operations. Sashi, I believe, is the right person to do this for the Cleveland Browns. He’s been in the NFL for 10 plus years, has been involved in the cap and has been heavily involved in our football administration and operations for the last year or two. He’s very smart, very organized, good at systems and processes and an outstanding team player. "

And even I had forgotten that the original plan as detailed in that same presser was:

"We’ll begin the search for the head coach right away. There are several key criteria we’re looking for in our head coach. The first is intelligence. We need somebody that’s smart. Obviously, we need somebody who’s a strong leader, somebody who is collaborative and can work well with others, a good team player, if you will. An individual that can put together a good staff, that’s incredibly important in today’s NFL as a complex as the game is, and somebody who has an intense desire to win and improve every day. The search committee will be made up of Jed Hughes with Korn Ferry... an international search firm... along with Sashi Brown, Dee and myself will head up the search committee. We’ll go to work right away. "

And here's the really cool, forgotten bit with the Sashi praise repeated for context... and emphasis...

"Once we hire a head coach, then we’ll go out and hire a GM. Let me talk about why we’re going to do this. Effective today or tonight I should say, Sashi Brown will be our executive vice president of football operations. Sashi, I believe, is the right person to do this for the Cleveland Browns. He’s been in the NFL for 10 plus years, has been involved in the cap and has been heavily involved in our football administration and operations for the last year or two. He’s very smart, very organized, good at systems and processes and an outstanding team player. He’s also very strategic so we will use those skills and working for him will be a GM whose primary job will be talent acquisition."

So the original plan was to do what the peanut gallery here wants to do now... and we didn't... somewhere along the way a better idea developed.

And Jimmah bought into it...

I'll dig up the "consensus" endorsement comments later, if I have time, but trust me... I'm not assuming a thing.

 

I will sleep well tonite.

Beginning to think Jimmah may not be the best judge of who is or is not a quality leader in any business setting. He may be so bad at it that it ends up with Jim in some cuffs.

[PoeticG]

What we should do is demote Hue Jackson to OC. He can do okay if that's all he has to worry about and doesn't get the say on who plays. The HC should give him the players and say, make THIS work, period. That is his only chance at this point. He doesn't make the right decisions on who plays and where and when. The Head Coach should have his hand on both the Offense and Defense, hell even some special teams here and there, but Hue doesn't have a clue what is happening on the defensive side of the ball. 

If Hue won't take the OC job then tell him to take a hike and good luck finding another team willing to give a 1-25 HC another chance after the debacle that follows him from gameday to gameday. 

 

[PoeticG]

Hue Jackson say's he looking for leaders to step up on Offense. It's hard when the player's champion is sitting at 3rd string at QB. 

Play Kevin Hogan MAN. Crazy Kevin is the leader on this team, he's almost the elder statesman on the team and an excellent leader for a young football team. 

They players will follow Kevin to victories if Hue would just stop trying to cram Kizer down their throat. It's pretty simple bud, it's not rocket science as much as you guys would like to make it out to be. Kevin had ONE chance to make an impression and the pressure got to him that Texans game. It happens. But wake up to reality, the buzzer has been going off for weeks. 

[LogicIsForSquares]

PoG, your gimmick is awful. Pick a different one.

[hoorta]

17 hours ago, Nero said:

I don’t know if they are doing this in Berea, but I want to evaluate how everyone in this Board feels about The Process right now.

 This poll has to be made considering YOU have to make the decisions, and those decisions have their consequences. For example, if you fire the GM, probably you would shut everything down. If you are OK firing either the coach or the FO and you don’t really care who gets fired as long as some changes are made, then make your mind up before voting so we can know what would you do.  

 I know it’s midseason, but I wanted to quantify how many people think one thing or another, and what would they do if the team was in their hands. That’s why I’ve tried to put every possibility in the poll, so everyone has a word.

I’m sorry if there are missing possibilities.  

The poll is single choice question and private.  

I’m not going to keep talking so this poll is as neutral as possible. Thanks for your time!

I agree with Tour on #1, all of the above except the players. 

 

33 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Hue Jackson say's he looking for leaders to step up on Offense. It's hard when the player's champion is sitting at 3rd string at QB. 

Play Kevin Hogan MAN. Crazy Kevin is the leader on this team, he's almost the elder statesman on the team and an excellent leader for a young football team. 

They players will follow Kevin to victories if Hue would just stop trying to cram Kizer down their throat. It's pretty simple bud, it's not rocket science as much as you guys would like to make it out to be. Kevin had ONE chance to make an impression and the pressure got to him that Texans game. It happens. But wake up to reality, the buzzer has been going off for weeks. 

PO it's not going to happen. Hue said as much. Only way Hogan sees the field is if Kizer gets hurt. I mostly agree I've seen enough of Kizer to think he's not the answer- Hue and the gang must think so too, or they wouldn't have made an effort to overpay for McCarron. However, everyone but you thinks there's nothing to be gained by playing Kevin he has a limited skill set. 

I doubt Hue would ever take a demotion. I'm on board with Tour's suggestion that Jackson is trying to do too damn much, & that will be addressed in the off season- one way or another.