Dutch Oven Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 When Mike Holmgren and Tom Heckert came to town years ago, they inherited Eric Mangini. Instead of getting rid of him and hiring their guy, they kept Mangini and gave him a season to "audition" for them. It went predictably poorly, in fact the Browns avoided drafting front seven defensemen that season because they didn't want to draft for the wrong scheme if Mangini was canned. Pretty much, it was a wasted year in the Holmgren run organizationally. This leads me to what is going on right now. The Browns are 1-31 under Hue and this coaching staff. In theory, a 5-11 season would be a HUGE jump for the Browns next season, in comparison to the first two seasons, but at the end of the day, it's still a 5-11 season. I think that still gets Hue fired. So IMO Hue has to get the Browns close to .500 next season to continue to be the head coach for the future. Considering these last two seasons, that would be damn near miraculous. If true, then it feels like a complete exercise in futility - another wasted year for the organization. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Pretty good comparison. Hue now gets a year to waste. Haslam is the dumbest friggin' owner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Honest question: How many coaches have developed from low record first years to Superbowl contenders or playoff coaches? I ask it because Marvin Lewis and Chuck Pagano, for example, survived some not-so-great years but because they had great years in their career beginnings (Lewis' first two years were 8-8 then to rise to 11-5 and reach playoffs 7 times). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, Nero said: Honest question: How many coaches have developed from low record first years to Superbowl contenders or playoff coaches? I ask it because Marvin Lewis and Chuck Pagano, for example, survived some not-so-great years but because they had great years in their career beginnings (Lewis' first two years were 8-8 then to rise to 11-5 and reach playoffs 7 times). Chuck Noll was 1-13 in his first season (1969?) in Pittsburgh comes to mind. John McKay started 0-26 for the expansion Tampa Bay Bucs in his first two seasons. In year four TB played the Rams in the NFC Championship Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Just now, Dutch Oven said: Chuck Noll was 1-13 in his first season (1969?) in Pittsburgh comes to mind. John McKay started 0-26 for the expansion Tampa Bay Bucs in his first two seasons. In year four TB played the Rams in the NFC Championship Game. It tells you something when the first two coaches that come to mind were from more than 30 years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said: When Mike Holmgren and Tom Heckert came to town years ago, they inherited Eric Mangini. Instead of getting rid of him and hiring their guy, they kept Mangini and gave him a season to "audition" for them. It went predictably poorly, in fact the Browns avoided drafting front seven defensemen that season because they didn't want to draft for the wrong scheme if Mangini was canned. Pretty much, it was a wasted year in the Holmgren run organizationally. This leads me to what is going on right now. The Browns are 1-31 under Hue and this coaching staff. In theory, a 5-11 season would be a HUGE jump for the Browns next season, in comparison to the first two seasons, but at the end of the day, it's still a 5-11 season. I think that still gets Hue fired. So IMO Hue has to get the Browns close to .500 next season to continue to be the head coach for the future. Considering these last two seasons, that would be damn near miraculous. If true, then it feels like a complete exercise in futility - another wasted year for the organization. Thoughts? ^ Exactly what will happen and exactly why I won't see a Browns snap next year...... Book another horrific season next year, followed by a new head coach and his staff which will lead to a 3-5 win season the following year. On and on it will go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Just now, Nero said: It tells you something when the first two coaches that come to mind were from more than 30 years ago... Belichick I believe went 5-11 for New England in his first season. But yeah, you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said: When Mike Holmgren and Tom Heckert came to town years ago, they inherited Eric Mangini. Instead of getting rid of him and hiring their guy, they kept Mangini and gave him a season to "audition" for them. It went predictably poorly, in fact the Browns avoided drafting front seven defensemen that season because they didn't want to draft for the wrong scheme if Mangini was canned. Pretty much, it was a wasted year in the Holmgren run organizationally. This leads me to what is going on right now. The Browns are 1-31 under Hue and this coaching staff. In theory, a 5-11 season would be a HUGE jump for the Browns next season, in comparison to the first two seasons, but at the end of the day, it's still a 5-11 season. I think that still gets Hue fired. So IMO Hue has to get the Browns close to .500 next season to continue to be the head coach for the future. Considering these last two seasons, that would be damn near miraculous. If true, then it feels like a complete exercise in futility - another wasted year for the organization. Thoughts? Nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 It's a wasted season to keep Hue. He'll have excuses, and we might win 4-6 games next year, but unless jimmy decides to finally spend his money, I don't see us winning games with our current players and Hue. I know Joe Thomas is defending hue, but honestly, he probably wants continuity SO bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said: .......So IMO Hue has to get the Browns close to .500 next season to continue to be the head coach for the future. Considering these last two seasons, that would be damn near miraculous. If true, then it feels like a complete exercise in futility - another wasted year for the organization. Thoughts? 1. Obviously the BROWNS have a loaded draft card and must have an A to A+ draft, the needs are still there primarily on offense. I'd like to see them get the best WR in the draft maybe with the best RB or OL in round 1 then address the QB situation. Trade up in a QB deal maybe. 2. The strength of this team now is the defense keep reinforcing that in rounds 2 and beyond. 3. A 6+ win season in Cleveland and they might throw a parade, this team was close to several wins earlier in the season then faded in any event Kizer will be the 1st or 2nd team QB but a good competition would sure be healthy -but- nobody on this board has any idea on what that might look like until after the draft and camps begin. 4. Hue might be irrelevant in the first half of the season at least unless they really bomb and he might be yanked. A wasted year? I don't think that the BROWNS can afford another one of those. I also can not wait to see how season ticket sales go next year......they better have a great draft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richiswhere Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Na not the same Homlgren chose to keep Mangini. Dorsey has no choice when the owner says the coach is staying. Tom Landry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 38 minutes ago, Richiswhere said: Na not the same Homlgren chose to keep Mangini. Dorsey has no choice when the owner says the coach is staying. Tom Landry Splitting hairs. Same situation...slightly different reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richiswhere Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 21 minutes ago, Orion said: Splitting hairs. Same situation...slightly different reasons. LOL hardly "splitting hairs" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 mangini was a god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, syd said: mangini was a god You spelled "rat" wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 33 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: You spelled "rat" wrong. just saying compared to who we have had as H.C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 28 minutes ago, syd said: just saying compared to who we have had as H.C I have mixed feelings about Mangini....the rat. He treated the players like kids. Making them do a lap if they jumped offsides or caused a false start and stuff, in practice. But did that lower penalties in games? I think it did. He emphasized special teams. If you were on the lower end of the roster and wanted to be 'up' for the game...then you had to be able to excel in ST. If you didn't, somebody else was up for the game and you sat in street clothes. So, he had pretty good ST. Moot point anyway. He's a cherio floating in the milk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 24 minutes ago, Orion said: I have mixed feelings about Mangini....the rat. He treated the players like kids. Making them do a lap if they jumped offsides or caused a false start and stuff, in practice. But did that lower penalties in games? I think it did. He emphasized special teams. If you were on the lower end of the roster and wanted to be 'up' for the game...then you had to be able to excel in ST. If you didn't, somebody else was up for the game and you sat in street clothes. So, he had pretty good ST. Moot point anyway. He's a cherio floating in the milk. Mangini kept a handful of special team veterans on the team, which also explains why the Browns were good on special teams during that time period. Guys like Ventrone, Costanzo, etc. Gritty Italian guys who would never smell playing time on offense or defense. The counter to that is when you have guys on the roster who are strictly special teams guys, your overall depth suffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Can't argue with the OP. Haslam cannot self-evaluate. What the hell qualifications does he think he possesses to evaluate an NFL HC? My speculation: "I pay the bills, so I make the decisions..." Total EGO BS. We all have to pay for his inferiority complex. The guy needs therapy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, thenew23 said: Can't argue with the OP. Haslam cannot self-evaluate. What the hell qualifications does he think he possesses to evaluate an NFL HC? My speculation: "I pay the bills, so I make the decisions..." Total EGO BS. We all have to pay for his inferiority complex. The guy needs therapy... Reminds me of another con artist.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: Reminds me of another con artist.... Believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoolie Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Dorsey is here for the Cleveleand free ride. He makes.no waves he gets 2 years as a GM then he can move on. He is a coffee Fletcher. 3-13. +/- 1 win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 20 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: Thoughts? Pretty good stuff... Having just seen our 2018 opponents, it's hard for me to see 5-11 let alone .500. 19 hours ago, Nero said: Honest question: How many coaches have developed from low record first years to Superbowl contenders or playoff coaches? I ask it because Marvin Lewis and Chuck Pagano, for example, survived some not-so-great years but because they had great years in their career beginnings (Lewis' first two years were 8-8 then to rise to 11-5 and reach playoffs 7 times). I think expansion team inaugural HCs like Landry are a special case. Noll is a good example. I can think of a couple others... Bill Parcels' first NYG team went 3-12-1. Jimmy Johnson dismembered the 'Boys and went 1-15 in year one. Pete Carroll was a one and done 6-10 with the Jets and had to retreat to college coaching before he got his next pro shot... from which he also had to retreat... then came SEA. Marv Levy started badly in KC rose to mediocrity before being fired, retreating and relaunching in BUF where he stumbled badly to start his second HC gig. 19 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: Belichick I believe went 5-11 for New England in his first season. True, but he had years of HC under his belt by then including an 11-5 season. He was 6-10 in his 1st year in CLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Mangina was a better coach than Huey. But not by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 On 1/2/2018 at 8:14 AM, boo fagley said: Belichick 2000 5 - 11 2001 Super Bowl Champ Parcells 1995 6 - 10 1996 Lost Super Bowl Rams went from 4-12 in 1998 to winning the SB in 1999. As HC of the Rams mr.finger Vermiel went 5-11 in 1997, then 4-12 in 1998, then 13-3 and SB Champs in 1999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 But that wasn't Vermeil's first gig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Tour2ma said: But that wasn't Vermeil's first gig... No. I didn't know that had to be a criteria for the question. He took the Eagles to the SB. One of only a handful of coaches to take 2 teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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