Indians To Stop Using Chief Wahoo Logo In Their Uniforms in 2019

[DieHardBrownsFan]

2 hours ago, LionOfBuddha said:

You’re making so many assumptions. 

No, tradition isn’t a good enough reason. Change is inevitable, accept it or live in a miserable existence.

My Wal-Mart example isn’t dumb, it’s 100% on point. 

Walmart has a reason to need to lock up the black hair care products.

What reason do the Indians have to need to keep Chief Wahoo?

 

To piss your generation off?

[mjp28]

In 2019 the fans can still buy and display what they want -but- if they buy or are given promotional shirts and jerseys they will not have the chief wahoo anywhere on them. Should be interesting to see how much it really matters.

Human nature being what it is I imagine there will be a LOT of Wahoo in the stands, on cars and houses, we always had a Wahoo in our upstairs window.

I imagine sales of everything should be quite brisk everywhere including the counterfeit and nonlicensed merchandise. 

Ahhhhhh the business of sporrs.

[The Gipper]

The way I see it....the guys who don't want it gone don't really give a rat's arse about the logo itself.  They are just upset that perhaps political correctness has taken hold to extinguish a racial stereotype. 

Which means either:  A. they like that it is racially insensitive...or B.  they don't care if it is or isn't....they just want to maintain it so that "PC culture" or some nonsense does not prevail.

Hardly anyone here has lived as long as I have with Chief Wahoo...and I have and do own numeous articles of paraphenalia with that logo on it...including hats, shirts, jackets etc.  No one here practically has had as long a term attachment to it.   

But, it is not that big of a deal to me if it is gone.  It is...when it comes down to it....just a marketing gimmick.  And marketing gimmicks come and go...and if this one goes...so be it.   Just tell me what the next one is.

Wrong. I have always told my friends that it was the best logo in sports. Nice try though.

No, I am absolutely right.....be cause it is a matter of opinion and my opinion carries far more weight.    How long have you been an Indians fan?  I started being one around 1962. And as much as I have cared for it....I never thought by any means that it was the best logo in sports. To me the best logo was always the no logo of the Browns. As I said, it was always just a marketing device. If I can live with a change in whatever marketing device they use after 55 years, so can you.  Besides....as I noted...they are NOT giving it up as a marketing device...they are just not going to put it on their uniforms.

I mean...take the Browns......as noted...they have NO logo on their uniforms....but they certainly have logos.....the Brownie, the dog logos,  the B logos etc.   They are not on the uniforms, yet they are heavily marketed. That will likely be the case for Chief Wahoo.

[The Gipper]

The Brownie....not on the uniforms   

[The Gipper]

Two other Browns logos...not on uniform:

[LionOfBuddha]

3 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

To piss your generation off?

Cool 😎 

[mjp28]

6 hours ago, LionOfBuddha said:

Cool 😎 

Hey we geezers are cool about it.....

......and keep off my lawn dammit!

[wargograw]

On 1/31/2018 at 3:35 AM, LionOfBuddha said:

You’re making so many assumptions. 

No, tradition isn’t a good enough reason. Change is inevitable, accept it or live in a miserable existence.

My Wal-Mart example isn’t dumb, it’s 100% on point. 

Walmart has a reason to need to lock up the black hair care products.

What reason do the Indians have to need to keep Chief Wahoo?

 

You're backtracking. You said the fans, who are the customers, didn't like it, and since it's a business, they catered to those fans. When I pointed out that virtually no fans are in support of this move (it's a small minority, no pun intended), you're now claiming they don't "need" to keep the Chief. So I guess you realize the whole fans don't want it thing was bunk?

On 1/31/2018 at 8:31 AM, mjp28 said:

In 2019 the fans can still buy and display what they want -but- if they buy or are given promotional shirts and jerseys they will not have the chief wahoo anywhere on them. Should be interesting to see how much it really matters.

Human nature being what it is I imagine there will be a LOT of Wahoo in the stands, on cars and houses, we always had a Wahoo in our upstairs window.

I imagine sales of everything should be quite brisk everywhere including the counterfeit and nonlicensed merchandise. 

Ahhhhhh the business of sporrs.

Wahoo on the upstairs window. That's a sweet idea.

A guy on my street here in Austin has it on his curb numbers. Also has a big Brownie and other Browns stickets in his garage. Pretty cool.

On 1/31/2018 at 8:45 AM, The Gipper said:

The way I see it....the guys who don't want it gone don't really give a rat's arse about the logo itself.  They are just upset that perhaps political correctness has taken hold to extinguish a racial stereotype. 

Which means either:  A. they like that it is racially insensitive...or B.  they don't care if it is or isn't....they just want to maintain it so that "PC culture" or some nonsense does not prevail.

Hardly anyone here has lived as long as I have with Chief Wahoo...and I have and do own numeous articles of paraphenalia with that logo on it...including hats, shirts, jackets etc.  No one here practically has had as long a term attachment to it.   

But, it is not that big of a deal to me if it is gone.  It is...when it comes down to it....just a marketing gimmick.  And marketing gimmicks come and go...and if this one goes...so be it.   Just tell me what the next one is.

Wrong. I have always told my friends that it was the best logo in sports. Nice try though.

No, I am absolutely right.....be cause it is a matter of opinion and my opinion carries far more weight.    How long have you been an Indians fan?  I started being one around 1962. And as much as I have cared for it....I never thought by any means that it was the best logo in sports. To me the best logo was always the no logo of the Browns. As I said, it was always just a marketing device. If I can live with a change in whatever marketing device they use after 55 years, so can you.  Besides....as I noted...they are NOT giving it up as a marketing device...they are just not going to put it on their uniforms.

I mean...take the Browns......as noted...they have NO logo on their uniforms....but they certainly have logos.....the Brownie, the dog logos,  the B logos etc.   They are not on the uniforms, yet they are heavily marketed. That will likely be the case for Chief Wahoo.

So your argument for why I don't actually care about the logo is that you don't actually like the logo? 

[stillmotion]

Identity Politics and Cultural Appropriation are the cause of this. The neo-marxist thought of thinking taught at universities preys on people me and war's age (20s) and younger. People are taught to think that everything is a hierarchy of power with white males at the top and that it's all their fault. They are also taught that if they're offended, they can change the way people think, talk, or act. One example is Dr. Jordan Peterson in Canada and the recent law making everyone call people by their preferred gender pro-nouns, such as Zi and Zir. One you enforce people saying certain words, you're on the fine line from limiting free speech.

On the Wahoo subject, most people don't know that we used to be the Cleveland Naps, after legend Nap Lajoie. Most people also didn't know that Jim Thorpe had an all indian football team with an indian name and logo, and that the Indians named the team after Louis Sockalexis, a Native American star, that played in Cleveland.^[17]

The fact is that people consider that "Native Americans were oppressed", which is true, BUT that has nothing to do with the fact that the team was very likely named after the star.

I'm not a big fan of the Chief Wahoo Logo, but I think because people don't like something or are "offended", that doesn't give them the right to tell you what to do. That's ridiculous.

Dolan is on record saying he didn't think it was offensive, but to make a deal to have the ALL STAR GAME in Cleveland, I think he gave into "phasing the chief out".

But the question is whats next? Why doesn't Kansas City get rid of the Chiefs? Atlanta rename the Braves? Washington get rid of the Redskins, and Chicago do away with the Blackhawks. Truly, all of those teams must be racist, and whatever someone else's perception of something must be more important then what the business owner, fans who pay money, or other consensus citizens think.

Also, we should do away with Columbus Day, and turn it into Indigenous People's day like they did here in Cali. Even though most Italians in New York didn't celebrate Columbus himself, but the fact that Italian Americans accomplished a lot of good in America and did a lot of good (The friction was even shown in a Sopranos Episode).

We should tear down every Robert E Lee statue, and any statue of any person that "offended" anyone, even though Statues are a reminder of history, not a celebration of that specific person.

Maybe if we don't remember the evils of history and the past, it might repeat itself? But the fact is people should have the freedom to be stupid, and to have a stupid opinion. 

 

[LionOfBuddha]

7 hours ago, wargograw said:

You're backtracking. You said the fans, who are the customers, didn't like it, and since it's a business, they catered to those fans. When I pointed out that virtually no fans are in support of this move (it's a small minority, no pun intended), you're now claiming they don't "need" to keep the Chief. So I guess you realize the whole fans don't want it thing was bunk?

Wahoo on the upstairs window. That's a sweet idea.

A guy on my street here in Austin has it on his curb numbers. Also has a big Brownie and other Browns stickets in his garage. Pretty cool.

So your argument for why I don't actually care about the logo is that you don't actually like the logo? 

I don’t believe I ever said the majority of people don’t like it. I’m saying that the people who own the rights to “Chief Wahoo” decided that they want to get rid of it. They obviously thought there was enough opposition and that it was a good business move. 

Now if the government came in and MADE them change it, THAT would be where I have a problem. But that isn’t the case.

Whether I personally have a problem with Chief Wahoo or not is irrelevant. 

Its ironic that you and many on this board who love small government and personal freedoms just like me, want to FORCE an organization to KEEP something against their will.

Sounds a bit hypocritical.

[LionOfBuddha]

55 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

Identity Politics and Cultural Appropriation are the cause of this. The neo-marxist thought of thinking taught at universities preys on people me and war's age (20s) and younger. People are taught to think that everything is a hierarchy of power with white males at the top and that it's all their fault. They are also taught that if they're offended, they can change the way people think, talk, or act. One example is Dr. Jordan Peterson in Canada and the recent law making everyone call people by their preferred gender pro-nouns, such as Zi and Zir. One you enforce people saying certain words, you're on the fine line from limiting free speech.

On the Wahoo subject, most people don't know that we used to be the Cleveland Naps, after legend Nap Lajoie. Most people also didn't know that Jim Thorpe had an all indian football team with an indian name and logo, and that the Indians named the team after Louis Sockalexis, a Native American star, that played in Cleveland.^[17]

The fact is that people consider that "Native Americans were oppressed", which is true, BUT that has nothing to do with the fact that the team was very likely named after the star.

I'm not a big fan of the Chief Wahoo Logo, but I think because people don't like something or are "offended", that doesn't give them the right to tell you what to do. That's ridiculous.

Dolan is on record saying he didn't think it was offensive, but to make a deal to have the ALL STAR GAME in Cleveland, I think he gave into "phasing the chief out".

But the question is whats next? Why doesn't Kansas City get rid of the Chiefs? Atlanta rename the Braves? Washington get rid of the Redskins, and Chicago do away with the Blackhawks. Truly, all of those teams must be racist, and whatever someone else's perception of something must be more important then what the business owner, fans who pay money, or other consensus citizens think.

Also, we should do away with Columbus Day, and turn it into Indigenous People's day like they did here in Cali. Even though most Italians in New York didn't celebrate Columbus himself, but the fact that Italian Americans accomplished a lot of good in America and did a lot of good (The friction was even shown in a Sopranos Episode).

We should tear down every Robert E Lee statue, and any statue of any person that "offended" anyone, even though Statues are a reminder of history, not a celebration of that specific person.

Maybe if we don't remember the evils of history and the past, it might repeat itself? But the fact is people should have the freedom to be stupid, and to have a stupid opinion. 

 

I absolutely agree with everything you say, except for the origins of Chief Wahoo.

The claim that Chief Wahoo and the Indians were named to “honor” Louis Sockalexis have been debunked man. Plus, the guy was a raging alcoholic who only played 94 games. On top of that, Sockalexis’ descendants don’t like it either. So we’re “honoring” a guy who’s family wants Chief Wahoo and the Indians name gone. Yeah, we sure honor and respect him.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

[Ghoolie]

On 1/29/2018 at 11:24 PM, LionOfBuddha said:

It should be done because the Cleveland Indians organization wanted it to be done. It wasn’t the government telling them what to do, it was a business decision made by the owners. End of discussion.

Clearly not all fans loved it. If all fans loved it, it would’ve stayed. The owners deemed it more profitable to get rid of it, because there were enough fans that didn’t like it. Simple business decision. That’s how you run a business that stays afloat.

Because you don’t have a logical response. You’re playing identity politics. It’s ok to admit that.

Dude, WTF are you smoking. Wahoo is not neimg pulled down because of lack of interest. You out of touch pimpledick. Wahoo is beong pulled because the owner is a liberal and  caved to PC.

[mjp28]

42 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

Dude, WTF are you smoking. Wahoo is not neimg pulled down because of lack of interest. You out of touch pimpledick. Wahoo is beong pulled because the owner is a liberal and  caved to PC.

Wrong, it's MLB and not just Cleveland, it's not just the part owner, try reading sometime. Liberal or conservative has nothing to do with it. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/01/29/cleveland-indians-will-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-from-uniforms-starting-in-2019/?utm_term=.959b34c0df1d

Chief Wahoo, the grinning, red-faced caricature of a Native American that has served as the Cleveland Indians’ logo for more than 70 years, will be phased out at the end of the 2018 baseball season, a long-expected but politically fraught move that places pressure on the handful of remaining sports franchises that still use Native American imagery and nicknames, most notably the NFL’s Washington Redskins.

The Indians’ change, announced Monday in a statement from Major League Baseball, came at the urging of Commissioner Rob Manfred, who began pressing Indians chief executive and part-owner Paul Dolan nearly a year ago to eliminate Chief Wahoo, the presence of which had become a flashpoint between many fans of the team and advocacy groups that considered it to be racist.

“Major League Baseball is committed to building a culture of diversity and inclusion throughout the game,” Manfred said in his statement. Dolan, he said, “made clear there are fans who have a longstanding attachment to the logo and its place in the history of the team. Nonetheless, the club ultimately agreed with my position that the logo is no longer appropriate for on-field use.”..........CONTINUED IN LINK........

..........While the team will stop using the insignia on its uniforms and signage beginning in 2019, it will retain the trademark for Chief Wahoo and will continue to sell merchandise with the logo in the Cleveland market and a limited number of international markets, at least in part to satisfy a requirement for keeping ownership of the trademark. If those rights were relinquished, outside entities could profit off the logo........CONTINUED IN LINK.........

[LionOfBuddha]

1 hour ago, Ghoolie said:

Dude, WTF are you smoking. Wahoo is not neimg pulled down because of lack of interest. You out of touch pimpledick. Wahoo is beong pulled because the owner is a liberal and  caved to PC.

I’m out of touch? Dude, I’m a member of the generation that will be taking over America in the next 10 years. I can tell you for a FACT, 90% of young adults, liberal or conservative, don’t care if they get rid of Chief Wahoo. Smart businessmen always spot trends AHEAD of time, and they see this. They don’t give a PHUCK about your old, outdated, flaccid pimpledick opinion.

As for the business side, it is a GREAT business move, an absolute win-win. Get rid of the controversy surrounding the logo. That increases the value of Chief Wahoo, which will still be sold as merchandise.

But yeah, I’m out of touch.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

That's what the hippies said when they were going to take over back in the 60's!

[The Gipper]

13 hours ago, wargograw said:

Y

So your argument for why I don't actually care about the logo is that you don't actually like the logo? 

No.  Where did you ever read that I don't like the logo?    Like I said...I have lived with it my whole life.  And I have it all over Tribe gear that I own.  

What I said is :  A. It was inevitable that it should go away and B.  that it is a marketing gimmick.....just like all other team logos....and if it goes away...it is no hair off my arse because whatever they come up with next will probably be fine. 

C.  What I said was that those complaining about the removal of the logo do not really care about that logo so much.....they just want to complain about some perceived political correctness being involved in its removal. 

My position is:  I like the Chief....I have lived my life with it.  But I understand that it is a racial caricature...and that it can be offensive to some.  So, if the team decide's it is in their best interest to no longer use it on their uniforms or on the walls of the stadium.....I am fine with that.  They are still not giving it up.  They will still sell trinkets to people with the logo on it.  And that is fine as well.

Now....do you understand the words that are  coming out of my mouth?  Or do I have to reiterate it for the 4th or 5th time?

[LionOfBuddha]

1 hour ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

That's what the hippies said when they were going to take over back in the 60's!

Yawn. I’m still waiting for you to add anything intelligent or relevant to the conversation.

Cant wait for your response to be “you too”

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I'm having fun with you.  Do you need a safe space or time out?

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

That's what the hippies said when they were going to take over back in the 60's!

They did take over.   What else can explain why a lot of them voted for Trump other than drug addled idiocy?

[LionOfBuddha]

1 hour ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

I'm having fun with you.  Do you need a safe space or time out?

If your idea of fun is unsuccessfully trying to piss off someone on a Browns forum, then I actually feel bad for you and I’ll be nice to you.

No, I don’t need a safe space lol. I actually enjoy debating people with opposing views, it’s the only way to come to the truth. I was really hoping to have a discussion with you, but it’s clear you’d rather act like a child instead. Which is fine, but maybe you should take a time out

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Poor child.

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

4 hours ago, LionOfBuddha said:

If your idea of fun is unsuccessfully trying to piss off someone on a Browns forum, then I actually feel bad for you and I’ll be nice to you.

No, I don’t need a safe space lol. I actually enjoy debating people with opposing views, it’s the only way to come to the truth. I was really hoping to have a discussion with you, but it’s clear you’d rather act like a child instead. Which is fine, but maybe you should take a time out

 

[stillmotion]

14 hours ago, LionOfBuddha said:

The claim that Chief Wahoo and the Indians were named to “honor” Louis Sockalexis have been debunked man. Plus, the guy was a raging alcoholic who only played 94 games. On top of that, Sockalexis’ descendants don’t like it either. So we’re “honoring” a guy who’s family wants Chief Wahoo and the Indians name gone. Yeah, we sure honor and respect him.

Show me the legit source of the "debunking", because so far there is no source, its just a bogus theory that people go with to try and make their narrative sound more valid.

 

12 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Dude, WTF are you smoking. Wahoo is not neimg pulled down because of lack of interest. You out of touch pimpledick. Wahoo is beong pulled because the owner is a liberal and  caved to PC.

You are 110% right. He caved to the commissioner to get the all star baseball game in Cleveland. he's 110% a weak pussy. He also is on the record saying he didn't consider Wahoo offensive and wouldn't change it at this moment when he bought the team. 

 

10 hours ago, LionOfBuddha said:

As for the business side, it is a GREAT business move, an absolute win-win. Get rid of the controversy surrounding the logo. That increases the value of Chief Wahoo, which will still be sold as merchandise.

 

This is really all about Dolan playing patsy to the commissioner to seem more progressive in the "Deal" in order to have the allstar game in Cleveland. Dolan has no values.

 

10 hours ago, LionOfBuddha said:

I can tell you for a FACT, 90% of young adults, liberal or conservative, don’t care if they get rid of Chief Wahoo.

Most who don't come from Cleveland don't care at all. But a lot of the people from Cleveland don't like people telling them what they can wear or what logo's they can have, because someone finds them offensive. I think people like Ghoolie, and Me, and many of my friends have problem with the lack of integrity and values of people like Dolan, who own a team, and who completely cave in to anything to get a little money (all star game) and publicity (being progressive).

[LionOfBuddha]

7 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

Show me the legit source of the "debunking", because so far there is no source, its just a bogus theory that people go with to try and make their narrative sound more valid.

 

You are 110% right. He caved to the commissioner to get the all star baseball game in Cleveland. he's 110% a weak pussy. He also is on the record saying he didn't consider Wahoo offensive and wouldn't change it at this moment when he bought the team. 

 

This is really all about Dolan playing patsy to the commissioner to seem more progressive in the "Deal" in order to have the allstar game in Cleveland. Dolan has no values.

 

Most who don't come from Cleveland don't care at all. But a lot of the people from Cleveland don't like people telling them what they can wear or what logo's they can have, because someone finds them offensive. I think people like Ghoolie, and Me, and many of my friends have problem with the lack of integrity and values of people like Dolan, who own a team, and who completely cave in to anything to get a little money (all star game) and publicity (being progressive).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2017/05/09/louis-sockalexis-tribe-angry-about-chief-wahoo-logo-obviously-does-not-honor-his-legacy%3fmedia=AMP+HTML

Heres one, but there are plenty. There’s really no way to prove it one way or the other, but when you do some digging it seems pretty apparent that the Indians name started as a derogatory nickname because we had an American Indian on our team.

Dude, I’m with you, I think the progressive movement is so dumb when it comes to almost everything. Black shootings, abortion, trans rights... its all a Marxist leftist agenda. I’m totally with you. But dude, this isn’t some blue haired dumb white bitch saying they don’t like Chief Wahoo. It’s literally members of Indian tribes who want it gone.

[stillmotion]

59 minutes ago, LionOfBuddha said:

But dude, this isn’t some blue haired dumb white bitch saying they don’t like Chief Wahoo. It’s literally members of Indian tribes who want it gone.

I don't have as much as a problem of getting "rid of the wahoo logo" as I do "how we got rid of the wahoo logo".

Dolan did it ONLY because his boss (the comissioner) said he'd give us the allstar game.

And the problem is, is that when they see they can change things, they will constantly want more until you don't even have a right to free speech.

First they change team names, then columbus day, then you can't wear any halloween costume, you can't even be a bear for halloween because that's offensive to bears. You have to call everyone by their gender pronouns. Just because someone is offended doesn't give them the right to tell you how to act or what to do. I understand how they feel, and if the owner LEGIT wanted to do it, then why did he do it after the commissioner promised him the allstar game. Because he's a sellout and a pussy. 

[wargograw]

16 hours ago, LionOfBuddha said:

I don’t believe I ever said the majority of people don’t like it. I’m saying that the people who own the rights to “Chief Wahoo” decided that they want to get rid of it. They obviously thought there was enough opposition and that it was a good business move. 

Now if the government came in and MADE them change it, THAT would be where I have a problem. But that isn’t the case.

Whether I personally have a problem with Chief Wahoo or not is irrelevant. 

Its ironic that you and many on this board who love small government and personal freedoms just like me, want to FORCE an organization to KEEP something against their will.

Sounds a bit hypocritical.

"Clearly not all fans loved it. If all fans loved it, it would’ve stayed."

Now, unless you're going to use some kind of "I'm not aware that exaggeration is a thing" position here, you really can't square that quote with what I bolded in your post. Simply put, you claimed the fans didn't want Wahoo. Then you backtracked and said the owner doesn't want Wahoo. Then when stillmotion called you out on that you've moved onto some "well Dolan's just looking 25 years down the road when all the homo offended millenials are running the market" argument. 

I'm guessing you can't settle on one because they're all a bunch of garbage. 

10 hours ago, The Gipper said:

No.  Where did you ever read that I don't like the logo?    Like I said...I have lived with it my whole life.  And I have it all over Tribe gear that I own.  

What I said is :  A. It was inevitable that it should go away and B.  that it is a marketing gimmick.....just like all other team logos....and if it goes away...it is no hair off my arse because whatever they come up with next will probably be fine. 

C.  What I said was that those complaining about the removal of the logo do not really care about that logo so much.....they just want to complain about some perceived political correctness being involved in its removal. 

My position is:  I like the Chief....I have lived my life with it.  But I understand that it is a racial caricature...and that it can be offensive to some.  So, if the team decide's it is in their best interest to no longer use it on their uniforms or on the walls of the stadium.....I am fine with that.  They are still not giving it up.  They will still sell trinkets to people with the logo on it.  And that is fine as well.

Now....do you understand the words that are  coming out of my mouth?  Or do I have to reiterate it for the 4th or 5th time?

Let's see here. You say that the people upset that Wahoo is gone just want to piss off liberals and don't actually care about the logo. I say you're wrong, it's the best logo in sports. Your brilliant, scholarly retort is "No, I am absolutely right.....be cause it is a matter of opinion and my opinion carries far more weight. "

So yeah, the only support for your argument that I don't actually care about the logo is "yeah, well I'm smarter than you." You're better than this. 

1 hour ago, LionOfBuddha said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2017/05/09/louis-sockalexis-tribe-angry-about-chief-wahoo-logo-obviously-does-not-honor-his-legacy%3fmedia=AMP+HTML

Heres one, but there are plenty. There’s really no way to prove it one way or the other, but when you do some digging it seems pretty apparent that the Indians name started as a derogatory nickname because we had an American Indian on our team.

Dude, I’m with you, I think the progressive movement is so dumb when it comes to almost everything. Black shootings, abortion, trans rights... its all a Marxist leftist agenda. I’m totally with you. But dude, this isn’t some blue haired dumb white bitch saying they don’t like Chief Wahoo. It’s literally members of Indian tribes who want it gone.

Ahh, not the literal members of Indian tribes! What will they ever do?

Wait I thought it was Dolan that wanted it gone? 

1 minute ago, stillmotion said:

I don't have as much as a problem of getting "rid of the wahoo logo" as I do "how we got rid of the wahoo logo".

Dolan did it ONLY because his boss (the comissioner) said he'd give us the allstar game.

And the problem is, is that when they see they can change things, they will constantly want more until you don't even have a right to free speech.

First they change team names, then columbus day, then you can't wear any halloween costume, you can't even be a bear because that's offensive to bears. You have to call everyone by their gender pronouns. Just because someone is offended doesn't give them the right to tell you how to act or what to do. I understand how they feel, and if the owner LEGIT wanted to do it, then why did he do it after the comissioner promised him the allstar game. Because he's a sellout and a pussy. 

Give it up man. Buddha has dug his heels in on this whole "the owner wanted to get rid of it" narrative, and no matter how much you tell him that Dolan caved to outside pressures, he's not going to acknowledge or respond to it.

[LionOfBuddha]

20 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

I don't have as much as a problem of getting "rid of the wahoo logo" as I do "how we got rid of the wahoo logo".

Dolan did it ONLY because his boss (the comissioner) said he'd give us the allstar game.

And the problem is, is that when they see they can change things, they will constantly want more until you don't even have a right to free speech.

First they change team names, then columbus day, then you can't wear any halloween costume, you can't even be a bear for halloween because that's offensive to bears. You have to call everyone by their gender pronouns. Just because someone is offended doesn't give them the right to tell you how to act or what to do. I understand how they feel, and if the owner LEGIT wanted to do it, then why did he do it after the commissioner promised him the allstar game. Because he's a sellout and a pussy. 

It’s an interesting argument, but here’s where the discrepancy is. Getting rid of Chief Wahoo does not equate to getting rid of free speech. 

You or I can still buy a Chief Wahoo hat and wear it. Taking away free speech would be the government telling you you CANT wear a Chief Wahoo hat. No one is saying that.

You still have the right to express yourself and purchase and wear Chief Wahoo, even to the games.

On a side note: 

How is the Cleveland Indians any different than the Cleveland Blacks?

[LionOfBuddha]

7 minutes ago, wargograw said:

"Clearly not all fans loved it. If all fans loved it, it would’ve stayed."

Now, unless you're going to use some kind of "I'm not aware that exaggeration is a thing" position here, you really can't square that quote with what I bolded in your post. Simply put, you claimed the fans didn't want Wahoo. Then you backtracked and said the owner doesn't want Wahoo. Then when stillmotion called you out on that you've moved onto some "well Dolan's just looking 25 years down the road when all the homo offended millenials are running the market" argument. 

I'm guessing you can't settle on one because they're all a bunch of garbage. 

Let's see here. You say that the people upset that Wahoo is gone just want to piss off liberals and don't actually care about the logo. I say you're wrong, it's the best logo in sports. Your brilliant, scholarly retort is "No, I am absolutely right.....be cause it is a matter of opinion and my opinion carries far more weight. "

So yeah, the only support for your argument that I don't actually care about the logo is "yeah, well I'm smarter than you." You're better than this. 

Ahh, not the literal members of Indian tribes! What will they ever do?

Wait I thought it was Dolan that wanted it gone? 

Give it up man. Buddha has dug his heels in on this whole "the owner wanted to get rid of it" narrative, and no matter how much you tell him that Dolan caved to outside pressures, he's not going to acknowledge or respond to it.

Dolan made a business decision. Whether it was to appease to crowd who didn’t like it, repair a relationship with Natives, or sellout for the all star game. (Probably all of the above)

Who really cares? It doesn’t change the fact that it doesn’t equate to taking away free speech, and no one forced him to do it.

 

[The Gipper]

Let's see here. You say that the people upset that Wahoo is gone just want to piss off liberals and don't actually care about the logo. I say you're wrong, it's the best logo in sports. Your brilliant, scholarly retort is "No, I am absolutely right.....be cause it is a matter of opinion and my opinion carries far more weight. "

So yeah, the only support for your argument that I don't actually care about the logo is "yeah, well I'm smarter than you." You're better than this

Sorry...but you are just confusing yourself.  Again, let me try to explain things to you like you were a 4 year old:

A. Yes....I believe that MOST people who are upset at the Tribe eliminating the Chief are just upset because they see it as a PC move...and NOT because they love the logo.  Now MAYBE you are the rare exception....maybe you do think it is a great logo...which is fine....there are always exceptions to any rule.   But I think I am right about what I say as to the reason most are "upset"...that they just want to be anti-PC nudniks. (you can look that term up)

B. I also said that if anyone has a right to be upset about the change it is a guy like me who HAS  lived with and liked the logo for far longer than you have been alive (something like 56 years in my case). I am saying that a guy like me has far more equity....far more personal investment in this team and its appendages...including things like logos etc. than most other people (including even you).  Ergo....if a guy like me can accept the situation and move on.....so can you and all the other schmos out there.